Switch to Zen gone wrong

Have posted this here now as it seems more appropriate apologies as a newbie did not see the Zen forum thread before.
I decided to switch my broadband and phone provider, Plusnet for Zen.
The new switching process seemed simple when I read it but already I have hit a snag. Zen has emailed me to say my broadband order has been cancelled by BT as they will only allow one order to progress at a time and as my phone line switch has started first that will have to complete before the switch of my Broadband can proceed.
Apparently nothing can be done about this so it will now take at least 21 days for my new broadband service to go live. This is more than a little annoying as it is my poor Broadband service from Plusnet that has prompted the move.
Have others come across this switching snag?
Also have just today had letter from Zen regarding the direct debit and they have made a horlicks of this as well.
Will wait until the beginning of next week to see if Zen get in touch to sort thing out as I emailed Zen Sales and their CEO but so far have not had any reply. After that will cancel to make sure i stay well within the 10 day cancellation period.
What a shame the reviews seemed so good maybe it is just my bad luck.

I'm sure my Zen order progressing in their portal had a 10-day-hold on the phone line, i.e 10 days after the FTTC link migrated they would migrate the phone line - as I had/have problems with the broadband now after migration, well documented elsewhere so not going to repeat, I could at least cancel my phone line before giving them more business...

Perhaps the F&%$ up with your link prompted a change in process for them? Although my first order was placed mid-late June When I spoke to BT, to cancel another migration I had planned to Zen, BT were shocked that Zen didn't do both (i.e phone line and broadband) at once... perhaps this is why or perhaps the BT chap just didn't know all the in's and out's..

Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Jul-15 21:20:36)

In reply to a post by corsa57:

Have posted this here now as it seems more appropriate apologies as a newbie did not see the Zen forum thread before.
I decided to switch my broadband and phone provider, Plusnet for Zen.
The new switching process seemed simple when I read it but already I have hit a snag. Zen has emailed me to say my broadband order has been cancelled by BT as they will only allow one order to progress at a time and as my phone line switch has started first that will have to complete before the switch of my Broadband can proceed.
Apparently nothing can be done about this so it will now take at least 21 days for my new broadband service to go live. This is more than a little annoying as it is my poor Broadband service from Plusnet that has prompted the move.
Have others come across this switching snag?
Also have just today had letter from Zen regarding the direct debit and they have made a horlicks of this as well.
Will wait until the beginning of next week to see if Zen get in touch to sort thing out as I emailed Zen Sales and their CEO but so far have not had any reply. After that will cancel to make sure i stay well within the 10 day cancellation period.
What a shame the reviews seemed so good maybe it is just my bad luck.

Personally i would transfer your phone first to avoid disconnection of your broadband.

Thanks to a forum member who sent me this information I have listed below I see no reason to switch phone first.


Ofcom General Condition 22.14, September 2014
22.14 Where a Gaining Provider elects to co-ordinate a Communications Provider Migration on behalf of a Customer who has requested a transfer of Broadband and Fixed-line Telecommunications Services to be provided by it over the same line, it shall ensure that, where applicable, an order is submitted to Openreach, where available, for the simultaneous transfer with minimal loss of service of both Communications Services.
That's what is called (for short) a SIM Transfer. It needs the gaining ISP to submit an Order to Openreach asking for a SORN (Simultaneous Order Number). They then submit that special type of order number with their order for the move of the other service.

Openreach then have a mechanism to match the two and do them on the same day.

It sounds as though Zen just submitted two independent orders.

My migration to Zen last year resulted in them placing an order to migrate the FTTC across first, waiting for that to complete, then submitting another order to bring the line over.

Two separate orders, and completed without any problems.

Though things have now changed due to the lack of requirement for a MAC code. Maybe Zen are still ironing out bugs in this new process.

yeah I read a document which I lost now (as I am also migrating was interested)

As I understand it, it has to be a sim provide. The provide also has to be done within 4 hours of the cease.

Slightly different case, but I'm having a new line put in, and along with the fibre connection it's a SIM (simultaneous provision) order.

Unfortunately BT Openreach decided they couldn't do a SIM order after all - a week after ordering, and 5 days after Openreach had booed the appointment. It looks like the Openreach and Wholesale arms of BT don't speak to each other properly, and they need to for a SIM order to go through simultaneously...

I can see in my Zen portal that Zen definitely put through a SIM order.... So I wouldn't be so sure that it's Zen putting in separate orders....

In reply to a post by corsa57:

Openreach then have a mechanism to match the two and do them on the same day.

Sort of. There is unfortunately a whole layer of abstraction with the whole process which is why a SIM in it's current form is required in the first place, explained below.

In reply to a post by corsa57:

It sounds as though Zen just submitted two independent orders.

The phone and broadband orders will be placed independently of each other.

For the CP (Zen in this case) the PSTN order will be placed directly with Openreach (which sort of isn't true in itself but a good simplification). The broadband order will be placed with BT Wholesale who then place an order on the CPs behalf with Openreach.

For SIM1 orders (what Zen appears to have used here) the PSTN generates an OMR (Order Matching Reference) that can then be submitted against the broadband order with BTW for magic to happen behind the scenes and allow the orders to match together.

The whole magic behind the scenes is automated and can, and does, fail leaving the broadband order to be discarded to be placed again as a stand alone once the PSTN order completes. There is no manual matching recovery process, leading to much hilarity and end user annoyance.

Sadly you don't get a single bundled order placed together at the order origin, with Openreach. This would be an infinitely simpler process but would require a complete re-work of the entire system leaving it a flight of fancy.

In theory Zen could scrub the PSTN order and re-place the orders again from scratch, hoping this time they match. However in your situation, while the whole process is going to take longer, shouldn't leave you high and dry without service. The PSTN should move over, and as it'll still be a BT line, your Plusnet broadband will carry on until it is transferred itself (unless they're putting you on LLU).

With the removal of MACs the whole process is in a bit of upheaval at the moment, a lot of peoples migration experiences already mentioned in this thread are no longer applicable, and especially with the introduction of SIM2... but that's a whole different beast!

Hope this helps to shed some light on your current situation.

Thank you Man_Of_Elements for your reply.
It however makes the situation no clearer to me anyway. Placing an order sounds like a game of chance from the days of The Magic Roundabout, for those of us old enough to remember it anyway.

In reply to a post by corsa57:

Placing an order sounds like a game of chance from the days of The Magic Roundabout, for those of us old enough to remember it anyway.

Oh the wonders of working with a supplier that is basicly a monopoly.
Even if the process of upgrading there systems (which are almost from the days of The Magic Roundabout) was not a complicated mindfield, they have very little motivation to actually do so. There are no alternatives for ISP's to turn to.