In reply to a post by SteveBushell999:

OH Dear ! - So, it moves to Failed:4 Successful; 0

Important! Where are you please S2KIP?

I note your intention to move ISP S2KIP, and I suspect other people will come to a similar conclusion unless this is properly addressed by Zen.

Steve,

I'm in Gloucester, first hop is still London.

I have two requirements for an ISP; static IP and sub 10ms latency to London DCs (particularly AWS) as I run an IPSEC VPN and the application at the other side requires 10ms or less latency or it complains.

Latency on Zen has always been a game of poff/pon to hit the right one as most were 8-10ms and one was 5ms.

Retrieving speedtest.net configuration...
Testing from Zen Internet Ltd (IP removed)...
Retrieving speedtest.net server list...
Selecting best server based on ping...
Hosted by Jump Networks Ltd (London) [146.07 km]: 38.874 ms
Testing download speed................................................................................
Download: 703.63 Mbit/s
Testing upload speed......................................................................................................
Upload: 95.26 Mbit/s

This is one of the better results, they fluctuate from 400 Mbps to ~850 Mbps and the upload between 80 Mbps and 90 Mbps (although I rate limit download to 900 Mbps and upload to ~95 Mbps).

I really hope that I can be moved back otherwise I may look into the complaints process and being released from contract so I can move to Cuckoo who use TalkTalk's backhaul, have excellent latency and will give me a static IP, all for less money than Zen.

I chose Zen as they are gold standard, or perhaps were (until this can be fixed).

Edited by S2KIP (Sat 25-Jun-22 11:08:17)

This is the difference between two GEA gateways:

64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=25 ttl=57 time=23.2 ms
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=26 ttl=57 time=23.5 ms
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=27 ttl=57 time=23.4 ms
From 192.168.1.254 icmp_seq=28 Destination Net Unreachable
From 192.168.1.254 icmp_seq=31 Destination Net Unreachable
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=32 ttl=58 time=11.9 ms
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=33 ttl=58 time=12.5 ms
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=34 ttl=58 time=12.0 ms

First being 51.148.77.131/32 and the second being 51.148.77.129/32.

Edited by S2KIP (Sat 25-Jun-22 11:37:25)

Hi! Just spotted this thread when browsing a different forum. Had a check on my orders as well, and saw a GEA migration back in April.

Fortunately for me (North West - near Manchester) on the 500/70 I haven't seen any issues. Same speeds/latency as before.

We have had FTTP for maybe 2-3 years, the ONT is one of the single port ones, but is the kind fitted inside the big plastic cover that would have contained the battery backup for VOIP which we don't have.

Just an FYI in case it helps.

I really hope that I can be moved back otherwise I may look into the complaints process and being released from contract so I can move to Cuckoo who use TalkTalk's backhaul, have excellent latency and will give me a static IP, all for less money than Zen.

Given that Zen now only 'guarantee' 450Mbps for your connection, you may have trouble. Not sure what they 'guaranteed' when you actually signed up though!

For me, Zen were 'one of the best' when I was on FTTC in Norfolk, but now? I am worried that things have changed. I need fixed IP, Domain hosting, and upload / download speed. I know I'm not 100% an average customer, but there you go.

Gloucester is new to us with GEA migrations, all the rest have been in the Cheshire area so far, so maybe that is now a red herring

Fortunately for me (North West - near Manchester) on the 500/70 I haven't seen any issues. Same speeds/latency as before.

Sorry, meant S2KIP as the one outside the North West

So let's make it 4:1 now then.
Thanks for the comments, and note you were an April migration, think all the fails I have seen so far are March, I am just trying to find a common thread!

Edited by SteveBushell999 (Sat 25-Jun-22 13:28:12)

In reply to a post by SteveBushell999:

I really hope that I can be moved back otherwise I may look into the complaints process and being released from contract so I can move to Cuckoo who use TalkTalk's backhaul, have excellent latency and will give me a static IP, all for less money than Zen.

Given that Zen now only 'guarantee' 450Mbps for your connection, you may have trouble. Not sure what they 'guaranteed' when you actually signed up though!

For me, Zen were 'one of the best' when I was on FTTC in Norfolk, but now? I am worried that things have changed. I need fixed IP, Domain hosting, and upload / download speed. I know I'm not 100% an average customer, but there you go.

Gloucester is new to us with GEA migrations, all the rest have been in the Cheshire area so far, so maybe that is now a red herring

My GEA date was the 22nd July.

I too am not a normal user. I have IPSEC VPNs to AWS, Oracle Cloud, I upload a lot (mainly cloud backups) etc. I'm an advanced network engineer and work from home, so stability and low latency is really important to me and part of the reason I chose Zen, as historically they have been the go to ISP. Unfortunately when I moved to the house Zen stuck me on a 24 month contract and I have 12 remaining. I'm really hoping their support do something here.

vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk was one of my previous gateways, I'm now on lo0-0.bng2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk

The first hop latency is going to the same city (London, direct from Gloucester), so there's clearly some issue Zen need to resolve or they're going to lose a lot of customers. I'd wager most of their user base are not normal users, otherwise they'd be with BT, TT, EE etc and save some money over Zen. If they stick to their guns of 'well you get 450 Mbps so tough luck' I'd find it incredibly difficult to recommend their services.

I mean, this is pinging from my Firewall to Zen's gateway and my connection is pretty idle at the moment:

PING lo0-0.bng2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.77.129) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from lo0-0.bng2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.77.129): icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=11.7 ms
64 bytes from lo0-0.bng2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.77.129): icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=12.3 ms
64 bytes from lo0-0.bng2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.77.129): icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=24.6 ms
64 bytes from lo0-0.bng2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.77.129): icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=14.1 ms
64 bytes from lo0-0.bng2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.77.129): icmp_seq=5 ttl=255 time=26.6 ms

The response times are all over the place. I'd love to be able to get on their kit and look at the config and usage for some lol's.

I've emailed Cuckoo to see if they can provision a second line on a spare ONT port and will test their service out on a 30 day contract. Plus my Firewall can load balance/fail over etc so it'll be an interesting, albeit expensive experiment.

Edit - from Zen's T&Cs:

We may at any time make changes to the terms of our Agreement and/or the services and
equipment if:
(a) we believe changes are necessary to improve the services for the benefit of our
customers;
(b) there is a technical or operational reason for such changes;
(c) there is a change in the law or regulation of the services or equipment;
zen.co.uk 13
(d) we need to clarify our terms or we wish to have all our customers on the same
terms; or
(e) there is a change in circumstances which we could not have predicted and which
means a change is necessary.
14.4 If we make changes we will try to give you at least 30 days’ notice unless:
(a) the change is minor and does not affect you significantly; or
(b) the change is for legal or regulatory reasons.
14.5 If we make a change that is to your significant disadvantage, you should notify us as soon
as possible. If we are unable to undo that change, you may end our Agreement without
penalty by giving us at least 30 days’ notice. Your notice must be given within 30 days’ of
the changes being notified to you. You will not have to pay any charges for the remainder
of any minimum period which may apply to the services.

Key part being that I was not notified of the change and it is significant. Double the latency is what I would consider significant and certainly does not line up with Zen improving the service.

Edited by S2KIP (Sat 25-Jun-22 12:43:34)

In reply to a post by Trebor95:

Hi! Just spotted this thread when browsing a different forum. Had a check on my orders as well, and saw a GEA migration back in April.

Fortunately for me (North West - near Manchester) on the 500/70 I haven't seen any issues. Same speeds/latency as before.

We have had FTTP for maybe 2-3 years, the ONT is one of the single port ones, but is the kind fitted inside the big plastic cover that would have contained the battery backup for VOIP which we don't have.

Just an FYI in case it helps.

Another data point is always welcome (as we are so short of them here)

It's good it's working for you and hopefully most others.

In reply to a post by S2KIP:

Edit - from Zen's T&Cs:

We may at any time make changes to the terms of our Agreement and/or the services and
equipment if:
(a) we believe changes are necessary to improve the services for the benefit of our
customers;
(b) there is a technical or operational reason for such changes;
(c) there is a change in the law or regulation of the services or equipment;
zen.co.uk 13
(d) we need to clarify our terms or we wish to have all our customers on the same
terms; or
(e) there is a change in circumstances which we could not have predicted and which
means a change is necessary.
14.4 If we make changes we will try to give you at least 30 days’ notice unless:
(a) the change is minor and does not affect you significantly; or
(b) the change is for legal or regulatory reasons.
14.5 If we make a change that is to your significant disadvantage, you should notify us as soon
as possible. If we are unable to undo that change, you may end our Agreement without
penalty by giving us at least 30 days’ notice. Your notice must be given within 30 days’ of
the changes being notified to you. You will not have to pay any charges for the remainder
of any minimum period which may apply to the services.

Key part being that I was not notified of the change and it is significant. Double the latency is what I would consider significant and certainly does not line up with Zen improving the service.

Zen have (verbally at least) agreed with me that they have and have 30 days to put it right, if not they're release me from my contract. I did have to send them a decent amount of detail about the connection, TBB graphs, pings, traceroutes etc.

In reply to a post by FakeJake:

I haven't heard anything from anyone yet so it might not be a full fix, but for the first time since setting up the Samknows box on the migrated connection, it's started reporting test results of over 900Mbps since about 10:00 yesterday.

This is not due to a change on the Zen side. I do see the interface on our exchange equipment terminating the GEA Cable Link dropped for 2 minutes, and the connection has been good since. I'm trying to find out what happened on the OR side during that outage.

This is not due to a change on the Zen side. I do see the interface on our exchange equipment terminating the GEA Cable Link dropped for 2 minutes, and the connection has been good since. I'm trying to find out what happened on the OR side during that outage.

VERY interesting Brandon! I eagerly await the outcome of this! IF it's OR, then there are some serious questions to be asked and answered....