Certainly if not then something is seriously wrong, it would be interesting to see a ping run to his local router for 10 or so seconds, as it really should be sub 1mS constantly.

Wired layer 2, even if you go through several nested GigE switches, shouldn’t add any more than a 0.5ms to round trip times - after all it’s wire speed and ought to be non-blocking.

Punching into layer 3 where packets can be queued and processed by a variety of unequal and variably busy engines and routing protocols is where most of the variable delay comes into it. More routers, more hops, more delay. Distance is a fixed immutable law of physics - the outer Hebrides are never going to compete with Hackey.

WiFi is a contended, shared soup of disaster that destroys any predictability with round trip times, at best your lucky if it’s less than 3ms (and stays that way).

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 06-Jul-22 09:46:25)

talking to the Zen staff that they hold a lot onto this minimum speed guarantee value

As a matter of interest, do you know what the guaranteed speed for your connection was when you signed up (rather than now). It is interesting that Zen's speed guarantee across FTTP is 50% of the advertised rates across the board, which is really very poor IMHO, but given what some people are getting, perhaps understandable.

I really don't want to get bogged down with the routing 'issues' as I really believe that they are a separate issue, but what you say is interesting, 10mS between London / Manchester sounds entirely reasonable to me, however your point 3. is surprising, I would expect the speeds to be pretty similar.

Wired layer 2

Dodgy cable even? - Otherwise completely agree with you. Additionally, please everyone any speed tests / latency reports over WiFi are meaningless, and please also make sure that your connection is actually negotiating to 1Gbps !!!

In reply to a post by SteveBushell999:

Wired layer 2

Dodgy cable even? - Otherwise completely agree with you. Additionally, please everyone any speed tests / latency reports over WiFi are meaningless, and please also make sure that your connection is actually negotiating to 1Gbps !!!

There is nothing wrong with my local setup, I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself. It's not uncommon to have a random ICMP reply to take significantly longer than normal.

I don't know why you keep banging the same drum.

100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 101368ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.047/0.125/0.267/0.044 ms

If I loaded up a heavy download such as a torrent etc then it would look different. it's most likely that when I ran the mtr something loaded up the line such as Netflix or a software update.

You're digressing from the issue which is poorer performance (bandwidth or latency) post GEA migration.

Edited by S2KIP (Wed 06-Jul-22 10:12:20)

In reply to a post by SteveBushell999:

As a matter of interest, do you know what the guaranteed speed for your connection was when you signed up (rather than now).

No, there is no minimum guaranteed speed specified on any of the confirmation emails I have (only the headline average 900000 down / 115000 up).

In reply to a post by SteveBushell999:

I really don't want to get bogged down with the routing 'issues' as I really believe that they are a separate issue, but what you say is interesting, 10mS between London / Manchester sounds entirely reasonable to me, however your point 3. is surprising, I would expect the speeds to be pretty similar.

Yes, well it seemed absolutely repeatable last night. I think it is likely a somewhat linked issue - perhaps the increased latency means that it behaves differently. But it does mean I am observing some differences depending on exactly which device is doing the PPPoE connection, and that the interactions seem a little complex.

Hmmm, if Zen didn't send you that info then it would be against this:

How our Minimum Speed guarantee work

You’ll get confirmation your own minimum guaranteed speed when you join us. If your Broadband speed drops below the minimum guaranteed and we can't fix it within 30 calendar days, you have the right to exit the contract without penalty. This is in accordance with Ofcom's Voluntary Code of Practice on Broadband Speeds.

That's from:https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/broadband-speedsOn that basis alone, you have a right to complain don't you?

You're digressing from the issue which is poorer performance (bandwidth or latency) post GEA migration.

I don't think there is any digression ! Am trying to help you fix what seems to be that very problem. ie where the fault actually lies and at this moment nobody knows (not even Zen)

Of course I fully understand the difference between loaded and unloaded latency. I believe the info below:

100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 101368ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.047/0.125/0.267/0.044 ms

refers to a ping to your local router, and if so, then it's hopefully going to be unloaded time, which doesn't explain why the trace route that you shared gave such slow icmp on your local router, what else could be using bandwidth on your local LAN? I do take the point that on a contended line, after you exit your LAN and join shared infrastructure, then there is a possibility that another user could affect your result.

I’m not sure if you’re being deliberately obtuse or you just don’t know much about networks or my setup. I’ve already explained, numerous times, I have no local LAN issue.

I have about 40 devices at home and any of them could have caused what you’re blowing up into a massive issue which is not relevant to this thread.

Edited by S2KIP (Wed 06-Jul-22 11:31:50)

I don't know when that page took effect. I signed up in Feb 2021 and went live in May 2021.
I know that from the Wayback machine that page was significantly different in Oct 2020.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201005182349/https://w...

Wayback machine's earliest capture of the current text is Jan 2022.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220117143940/https://w...

So it's reasonable to suppose it may be the case there was no minimum guaranteed speed policy when I took my contract.

This was what my welcome emails said on the subject:
Your broadband speeds
Typical download speed (Kbps): 900000
Typical upload speed (Kbps): 115000

Your speed estimate was generated on: 04/02/2021 10:23

The actual speed depends on several factors such as the product option you choose, how many people are using your broadband connection, whether you use Wi-Fi and the speed of the websites that you visit. Speeds can be lower at peak times.

More about broadband speeds.(which is a link to the page discussed).

I have about 40 devices at home and any of them could have caused

So, what you 'appear' to be saying is that you are measuring latency and speed in the presence of 'unknown' other traffic on your network? OK, you DO know way more than me about networks (I've only been in IT since the late 1970's, working mainly in performance testing) Obviously, I can't be any good at it, because 25 of those years I have been a consultant, and I continue to be in demand for my services.

I’m not sure if you’re being deliberately obtuse

Not at all! Just trying to get to the bottom of your issue, which it sounds like we've done.

Edited by SteveBushell999 (Wed 06-Jul-22 14:48:45)