In reply to a post by Woolwich:

A postcode recently appearing on the TBB map - not mine - G53 7NP in Glasgow South West. CityFibre say an address has service and show a list of ISPs including Zen. Following the Zen link allows you to order a CF service. (snip)

Thanks! I found a postcode in Brum -- just via Google Maps, sounds like using an actual proper GIS info map might work better lol -- that seemed to have both CF and OR service, but I couldn't check the Zen+OR side there. If I can find it again I'll update here.

In reply to a post by Ad_G:

My understanding is that Zen only take the local services from CityFibre, that means they need a connection to each CityFibre exchange (FEX). Glasgow has multiple CityFibre exchanges.

It sounds like the footprint is available to Zen, but they've not got a connection to the CityFibre exchange you are connected to yet. Zen are the ones who should be able to confirm if/when that is planned. (snip)

That's a useful bit of info, thanks. I wonder if I might wheedle a bit more info from them, play up the "I'm thinking of leaving Zen for a CF provider, but a friend said their postcode in Glasgow has Zen available, any plans?" angle maybe! I don't need all their commercial secrets, I just need to know whether to look elsewhere.

In reply to a post by Rolandrat:

Be aware that Cityfibre ISP's dont have any migration policy to make the process fairly seamless like what Openreach network has, from experience on my second CF ISP change and its still a nightmare,

Also CF ISP's sell it cheap and as we have already seen, some are going out of business leaving customers with potential disconnections. (snips)

Ouch, that sounds frustrating! Hope they get it sorted soon so you can move. It is a bit concerning to hear, but hopefully it's just early teething problems and CF will sort things out over time. OFCOM complaints might sharpen their focus...

I was a bit surprised at the prices for comparable packages on CF to be honest- same down throughput, symmetric up and a tenner a month cheaper seems too good to be true? I figured CF were pricing things to get business established, but seeing ISPs like Zybre disappear (CF have an entire FAQ just for them!) is a bit concerning. Hopefully we're not going to end up in a situation like what happened with energy companies disappearing...

I'm on giganet and have a relatively static IPV4 address. Definitely not CGNAT as I run an inbound VPN to my home network. No issues in 7 months, probably tempting fate now!

Not the cheapest. 150/500 is £32 but 3 months free and 12 month contract equivalent to £24. I am looking to move to IDNET at £24 for same service if they won't drop price at contract renewal. IDNET already indicated that the line (CF) has to be 'ceased' before they can take it over. That's a concern but as already mentioned, might only occur once before one touch migrations are in place.

In reply to a post by wiggsc00:

I'm on giganet and have a relatively static IPV4 address. Definitely not CGNAT as I run an inbound VPN to my home network. No issues in 7 months, probably tempting fate now!

That's good to know! I also do inbound VPN and have a couple of other self-hosted services- most I could do with IPv6 but at least one or two I couldn't.

In reply to a post by wiggsc00:

Not the cheapest. 150/500 is £32 but 3 months free and 12 month contract equivalent to £24. (snip)

My current FTTC package with Zen is about twice the effective cost for half the download throughput and maybe a fifth or a tenth of the upload? This is part of the reason I am keen to move on to FTTP! >_<

In reply to a post by bertieb2:

That's a useful bit of info, thanks. I wonder if I might wheedle a bit more info from them, play up the "I'm thinking of leaving Zen for a CF provider, but a friend said their postcode in Glasgow has Zen available, any plans?" angle maybe! I don't need all their commercial secrets, I just need to know whether to look elsewhere.

I rang customer service and did the "I am thinking of leaving Zen" option, and asked about when my exchange would be enabled, explaining that it had gone live 18 months ago and, from speaking to CF on the phone, the contract for the area has been with Zen since January.

The CSR (whose name I didn't catch, d'oh) was helpful and said she would ask the relevant team and get back to me. She seemed on the ball, so even if I end up leaving Zen for eg Giganet it'll be with a heavy heart as they have been great. Even if it comes down to waiting a couple more months on a relatively expensive FTTC package I would, but I need a rough timescale at least!

I should hear back in a few days, will update here when I do.

Quick update- the sales person emailed me back to say there is indeed still exclusivity in my area! So what CityFibre told me previously seems to be wrong, somehow.

I've asked when the exclusivity period ends and will phone up CF to try to confirm what I'm being told.

In reply to a post by bertieb2:

there is indeed still exclusivity in my area! So what CityFibre told me previously seems to be wrong

Interesting if this is the case that's really bad from CF, the emails they have been sending me every few days and the snail mails I have gotten from them all list Zen and use the Zen logo in them. If they are actively preventing Zen from using them in some area's that's very sneaky indeed!

Thanks for following up on this, please keep us updated on what you find

As far as I am aware the exclusivity was for Vodafone and was part of the deal they signed for 12 cities back in 2017.

Glasgow was not one of those cities, Vodafone launched it at the end of 2021 when they took CityFibres national product. So I think Zen are giving out incorrect information. If any other ISP than Vodafone are available then there is no exclusivity clause.

Replies

In reply to a post by RichTea23:

Interesting if this is the case that's really bad from CF, the emails they have been sending me every few days and the snail mails I have gotten from them all list Zen and use the Zen logo in them. If they are actively preventing Zen from using them in some area's that's very sneaky indeed!

Thanks for following up on this, please keep us updated on what you find

Ha yeah that irked me a little too- annoying to see the logo and think "hey, Zen!", then find out actually no they're not available! I guess it's a standard mailing that they don't change to reflect local availability.

In reply to a post by Ad_G:

As far as I am aware the exclusivity was for Vodafone and was part of the deal they signed for 12 cities back in 2017.

Glasgow was not one of those cities, Vodafone launched it at the end of 2021 when they took CityFibres national product. So I think Zen are giving out incorrect information. If any other ISP than Vodafone are available then there is no exclusivity clause.

I am a bit confused by it myself to be honest! Vodafone were the first available here (late 2021) and I'd heard of the deal they did with CF so fair enough. Then other providers became available so I thought, "great, exclusivity period is over!", but Zen still said they couldn't do anything. So either they are mistaken(1) or there's some other commercial arrangement that the other providers (TalkTalk, Giganet etc) have signed up to that Zen haven't that they are calling 'exclusivity'.

Edit: the Zen CSR confirmed that CF service was available from December 2021; it's definitely more than 12 months for Vodafone exclusivity, and about the 18 month mark too!

It's still very odd that as Woolwich mentioned, the Halfway exchange / Glasgow SW has Zen+CF available but my area (NW) doesn't. So whatever 'exclusivity' there is or isn't, it doesn't apply to the whole city!

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(1): Being generous, maybe that was what they were briefed to say initially and it hasn't been updated?

Edited by bertieb2 (Fri 02-Jun-23 11:36:20)

CityFibre mini-update

I rang CF this morning. Their IVR system directs any enquiries about ordering to use the website's contact form and then hangs up, so I went with "other → other".

The CSR:

- confirmed Zen wasn't available in my area
- said they weren't able to give timescales
- asked had I spoken to Zen about it (lol)

I tried to explain the back-and-forth that has been ongoing and what I had heard from both Zen and CF previously. I also said that the lack of info was making it difficult to choose between moving to another provider for CF or sticking with Zen for an Openreach FTTP connection.

She took my details and said she'd pass it to the relevant team to see if there was any more info, I'll hear back maybe early next week.

Edited by bertieb2 (Fri 02-Jun-23 11:36:48)

Late 2021 is when CityFibre launched national so that fits. Vodafone don’t have exclusivity on that, as is born out by other ISPs being available. Other ISPs will either be taking national or have a connection in your exchange.

To my knowledge Zen take local which means they need a connection to every CityFibre exchange. SW and NW Glasgow are on opposite sides of the Clyde so probably different CityFibre exchanges. My money is on Zen not having a connection to the NW exchange and their agent is wrong/has been fed the wrong info about exclusivity.