|
|
|
I asked for a MAC a couple of days ago and got this response:
..."There are some outstanding fees on your account:
Details:
- Deferred House Move: 47.00
- Subscription charge covering period between
next invoice and end of contract (347 days): 173.38
These fees may be:
- Deferred contract (house move, hardware or activation) charges.
- Any outstanding account balances.
- Any migration fees.
Total outstanding fees: 220.38"
I've been with them since mid 2005. How can anybody explain that I have still a full year left to pay? Was I in a 3-year contract? I moved a year ago so I could understand that for some reason they somehow got me into a 1-year contract (although as you see there, I have to pay for the deferred move anyhow so not sure why I would have agreed to a fixed contract), didn't get any new equipment either).
I hope anybody reading this will think twice before signing up with them. They are not running a serious business (needless to say, I've had several issues with them in the past, like unexplained failures and a badly botched move - for which I still have to pay!).
Gonzalo
|
|
|
|
Can you post a username or ticket number so a PN rep can identify you and investigate.
Are you on a home or business package? Business packages are usually 12 month contracts but I still think they revert to a 1 month contract after 12 months like the home packages, but I'm not sure. If they do (or you are on a home package) then you are on a 1 month contract.
If you house move completed more than 12 months ago then the house move deferred fee no longer applies.
|
|
|
|
I am a home user. I suspect now that whomever did the calculation at Plusnet counted the months in the inverse order. I think in the worst case scenario I have still a month before 12 months pass after my move and am being charged for 11 months. Not sure if we're allowed to publish personal info here, but the ticket is ID: 23352426. It'd be great if you can help. Thanks.
Gonzalo
|
|
Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
|
|
|
|
However much they may claim that you owe them, they are not allowed, by Ofcom, to hold your MAC key to ransom. If you don't get it within 5 days, dispute or not, let Ofcom know.
Simon
|
|
|
|
oh, but they sent the MAC, together with the no so friendly note:
- By the time you leave, the fees shown above will need to be settled on your account. Failure to pay these fees within 7 days of your move will result in a further penalty of 20% being added to your final balance, as mentioned in section 13.10 of our terms and conditions
I just don't think I should pay
|
|
|
In reply to:
Failure to pay these fees within 7 days of your move will result in a further penalty of 20% being added to your final balance, as mentioned in section 13.10 of our terms and conditions
20% seems a tad excessive.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
>Total outstanding fees: 220.38
Wow! That's steep.
It was my understanding that monthly contracts were the norm nowadays, but caveats for any "free" options if taken such as activation charges, modems, can be charged for if the term of agreements are not met.
>- Subscription charge covering period between
>next invoice and end of contract (347 days): 173.38
That does not seem to make any sense to me but hopefully a member of staff can contact you as you have provided the ticket number and clarify the situation.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
In reply to:
Wow! That's steep.
Stand by for the, "Are you a customer of Plusnet, how dare you make a negative post" question from the usual suspect.
I would have used a smiley as an indication of an attempted humourous post, but even that seems to annoy some people so I won't bother.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by deleted (Sat 17-Nov-07 13:36:15)
|
|
|
|
Hello there,
I'm very sorry about this. It looks like for some reason you appear to be on an auunal contract. If you give one of the CSC analysts a ring they should be able to sort this out really quickly for you.
|
|
|
|
20% seems a tad excessive
-----
I wonder what rsharma would say? In any event, if the banks are now prohibited by law from profiteering on their charges, I'm sure that PlusNet can't arbitrarily add to the disputed bill any more than the going rate of interest - and, if eventually successfully recovered through the courts, an actual recovery or collection charge. I'm not aware of any law which allows them to add 20% to the amount claimed just because someone is 7 days late in paying or disputes the charge.
My advice to the OP would be to work out what he thinks he reasonably may owe PlusNet, if anything, and pay that amount - always bearing in mind that PlusNet may pursue him to court for the balance (unless of course they don't have a leg to stand on). But if they should succeed in getting a judgment then they will certainly then add on additional recovery and legal costs to the amount awarded.
Simon
Simon
|
|
|
|
Personally I think it's a scare tactic. Can't see it being legally enforceable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So you think the 20% extra charge is a mistake?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to:
Can't see it being legally enforceable.
It doesn't need to be if people just pay it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
The policy is that any remaining fees, if not collected at the time of the cancellation request, remain due. We will ultimately pursue unpaid debts via an external debt-collection agency, but we do call and write to the registered account address before doing this and obviously if a sum is in dispute we woulden't just pass it on to the debt collection agency without working with the customer to make sure the dispute had been addresed.
It is only when we pass on the debt that an additional administration fee is also applied to the outstanding sum, and currently 20% reflects that cost. I don't believe this is very unusual, but I agree that this should have been explained more politely and without it seeming automatic - we have no desire to make people's leaving experience bad. In plenty of cases customers are realising the grass is not greener and are coming back to us - we don't want to jeopardise that.
It sounds to me like there has been a misunderstanding here which if I was in work I would look to sort out myself now. If the OP can't resolve this with another call into the support team as James suggested, I will make sure this is properly addressed on Monday. Certainly the amount being asked for sounds like a disspointing mistake, which is precisely what we are working so hard at PlusNet at the moment to avoid doing.
Ian
|
|
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
|
|
|
In reply to:
The policy is that any remaining fees, if not collected at the time of the cancellation request, remain due.
I understand and have no problem with that.
In reply to:
We will ultimately pursue unpaid debts via an external debt-collection agency, but we do call and write to the registered account address before doing this and obviously if a sum is in dispute we woulden't just pass it on to the debt collection agency without working with the customer to make sure the dispute had been addresed.
The OP posted that he received an email saying pay within 7 days or the 20% will be added. That doesn't tie with what you are saying.
In reply to:
Certainly the amount being asked for sounds like a disspointing mistake,
Which is why I didn't comment on that specifically.
In reply to:
It is only when we pass on the debt that an additional administration fee is also applied to the outstanding sum, and currently 20% reflects that cost.
I still believe an Administration Feeof 20% is a tad steep. Can you give a breakdown why an Admin fee has to be a percentage, surely the same paperwork is involved for
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
"13.1 You must pay the Charges for the Service and/or Equipment at the price prevailing at the time of the Customer Order. The Charges form part of this Agreement. You will be responsible for the maintenance of your connection settings. You are responsible for checking your connection settings against the configurations which we stipulate on our website in the 'Your Account' section. We will not be liable for any Charges incurred where you have not followed our recommended connection settings. Any Charges incurred due to incorrect connection settings will be payable by you."
Nothing there about 20%
"13.5 You understand and agree that if you fail to make payments of Charges when they are due, we may suspend or cancel your Service, in part or in full, until payment is received in full. If we need to cease your Service because you have not paid and you then later decide to resume the Service, there may be a re-activation and administration charge where applicable, for which you will be liable."
Nothing here either - the word MAY does not mean will.... and why would an administration charge vary according to the amount outstanding? surely it should be a fixed cost!
13.9 Interest payable on demand shall accrue from day to day on overdue amounts at the rate of 2% above the base rate of National Westminster Bank Plc together with VAT if applicable.
13.10 We reserve the right to engage a third party debt collection agency in order to obtain any outstanding debt. Any additional charges generated as a result of this process will be payable by you
Nothing about a 20% charge here either
Might have been worth waiting a month...
Ian
will the
Edited by deleted (Sat 17-Nov-07 16:18:09)
|
|
|
In reply to:
as mentioned in section 13.10 of our terms and conditions
Was does 13.10 say?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
apologies cant count... 13.1 is not 13.10 -- have edited post
Edited by deleted (Sat 17-Nov-07 16:19:04)
|
|
|
In reply to:
13.10 We reserve the right to engage a third party debt collection agency in order to obtain any outstanding debt. Any additional charges generated as a result of this process will be payable by you
Nothing about a 20% charge here either
Do you think 20% is fair. Ian has said that is the current rate but it does seem a little OTT.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
|
To my mind a % is wrong.
To send a letter to a debtor will be standard amount.
to charge 20% on a debt of 220.38 would be 44 pounds.
But if 50 is owed then its 10 pounds. Can't be 34 pounds difference for the same course of action.
|
|
|
I suppose it could be argued that if the 20% figure doesn't appear in the T&C's then the customer hasn't agreed to pay it. It would then be up to the ISP to pursue the matter through the courts.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
it's called a mistake, they happen 
|
|
|
|
Agreed.. hence my comment earlier...
|
|
|
>My advice to the OP would be to work out what he thinks he reasonably may owe PlusNet..............
Far better for the OP to get clarification on what seems to me to have all the hallmarks of an error before taking any action.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
I'll comment later when the op has had resolution.
|
|
|
Any opinion on this
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=3187070
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
In terms of us not being able to recover a valid outstanding amount, the actual process is documented here. I would completely agree, as I said before, that the message given about this wasn't good enough and I'm going to make sure we improve that.
As I remember it, a percentage of the total amount is how the the debt collection agency charge us for collecting the debt. Someone else probably know more about the debt collection industry than me, but I think because our average debt is normally quite small, a percentage rather than a fixed cost gives better value (In in most cases it's lower than a fixed charge would be). Especially if you consider the extra work for us during this process, I don't believe this amount is out of kilter with the norm. [Edit to add - On that basis and given what I can see from a quick Google on this, yes I believe it's fair].
Ian
Edited by IanWild (Sat 17-Nov-07 17:33:35)
|
|
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
|
|
|
Fair comment.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
|
No it should be a "reasonable" fixed charge...
if the debt is
|
|
|
|
I would just call Plusnet as suggested and take it from there.
|
|
|
|
the OP should be somewhat wiser come monday. perhaps he could report back on the outcome.
|
|
|
One further point Ian. Reading the letters PN send, letter 2 refers to a 20% admin charge as does letter 3, this suggests the charge is being made twice. Can you clarify please?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
In reply to:
I would just call Plusnet as suggested and take it from there.
I quite agree, it's obviously a genuine mistake which will be rectified, and I have no doubt Ian will sort out the wording of the email regarding the Admin Fee.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
There would only be one charge. I'll see if we can make that clearer too. It's pretty rare things get to this stage so I've not come across this one before.
Ian
|
|
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
|
|
|
A usefull excercise then 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
|
|
|
|
Hi, thanks for all the comments. I feel better now seeing that this is most likely a mistake. Will call plusnet on Monday and then post the outcome here. Fingers crossed.
Gonzalo
|
|
|
Something up with your maths. 20% of
|
|
|
|
I don't suppose that you took the Loyalty option recently (365 - 347 = 18 days ago)? This would have put you into a new 12 month contract which would explain the charges. It would not make much sense if you were thinking of leaving.
|
|
|
|
No, last time I contacted them was about a year ago when I moved. Now it's clear that this is most likely a mistake on their part as several people have suggested. We'll see soon.
Gonzalo
|
|
|
Not the first time a post from Paddy didn't add up 
|
|
|
|
BTW why you leaving PN? who you moving too?
|
|
|
|
I'm switching to O2. Since I have a mobile with them, I get broadband for 7.50 per month, half of what I pay to Plusnet right now. In addition, I get a new wireless router, which comes handy since mine is past its best days, plus a free move. Since I know I'm going to move soon, that alone is a
|
|
|
|
Well, they solved it quite fast, although still a 47 charge that I don't like...probably if I stay a month longer that's going to disappear as well...
As per my message our apologies for the incorrect amount been sent.
There is �47 for the deferred hardware contract and then there is �14.99 which covers your 30 day notice period making it a total of �61.99.
Thanks everybody for their comments and support.
Gonzalo
|
|
|
|
why don't you stay a month longer to save the 47 pounds
|
|
|
|
Yes, that's my plan now.
|
|
|
Not only does the charge seem excessive but it sounds punitive. You can compare the similarities with the recent bank charges case.
A court would generally not accept such a high penalty. In addition, in court the maximum you normally are allowed to claim for interest is a statutory rate (I don't know what it is currently but it was around 8% (compound) last time I checked 6 months ago or so). A company could charge for administration of a bad debt but only a reasonable amount (IMO 20% is not). They would also not be allowed to pass it to a debt collection agency automatically, and if a dispute exists the debt would have to remain with the company for resolution.
More importantly, Wingco has shown that the contract terms don't include any such terms in any case. And if they did it would IMO be unenforceable because it would be a new term, one that wasn't included in their original Ts&Cs (the last time I checked was in Feb 07 and no notice has been given of any changes to them AFAIK) although admittedly I haven't followed PN news for a few months now.
|
|
|
Don't really see the similarities to the recent bank charges cases.
In reply to:
They would also not be allowed to pass it to a debt collection agency automatically, and if a dispute exists the debt would have to remain with the company for resolution
who or what stops them from doing this? Ian did say if there was dispute it would not be passed on to the agency
Ian said In reply to:
We will ultimately pursue unpaid debts via an external debt-collection agency
and having some involvement (a long time ago) in using a debt agent 20% feels like a reasonable cost
Contract from August 2005 (same wording in the current T&Cs)
13.10 We reserve the right to engage a third party debt collection agency in order to obtain any outstanding debt. Any additional charges generated as a result of this process will be payable by you.
I wouldn't expected to see a specific fee or % given in such a clause as the charges can vary
Paul
Plus Net - maxDSL - premier....or whatever its called now
Draytek Vigor 280VG running 2.7_E38 firmware
|
|
|
Rsharma,
I'm not sure if you missed my earlier post, but I stated earlier that it was a mistake. So I don't think that any concerns over court fees should be needed just yet
|
Pages in this thread: 
Print Thread
gonzavala
IanWild