CISAS Deadlock reference number

Having had no direct answer to my question via the Plusnet customer question system or on the Plusnet community forum I am asking on here how I would contact Plusnet for a CISAS Deadlock reference number, which I have been told I need?

I acknowledge KellyD's offer of help on here and on their community site, but as it appears I am unable to make the question clear enough for them to answer, I have no alternative but to take the matter to the next step.

In reply to a post by hk11:

Having had no direct answer to my question

What's the question?

We'd all like to know that, but I think the answer is 42.

As we discussed on the community thread, I reinstated your access to raise tickets so you can raise a ticket asking for one, but we don't know what the problem is, or even your question, and you won't attempt to clarify so we can't fix it.

As a result, this is just wasting both our time. Why don't you just tell us what your problem is so we can fix it.

In reply to a post by KellyD:

Why don't you just tell us what your problem is so we can fix it.

I've tried, but I don't seem to be able to get through to you. In summary it's OK for you to repeat the same question over and over again, but if I do it you remove my ability to view your entire website or even post on a public forum such as Facebook, even though I've done exactly as you instructed!

New question for ref number left on your system.

Well, you'd have to ask the question first and give the ISP a chance to reply. Quoting CISAS they don't deal with "Complaints that we feel have no real substance or that are made only to create trouble for a company.".
I wouldn't surprised if they decided that a question not really asked counts as a "complaint with no real substance".
edit - since you've made another reply while I was typing this. You need to state your complaint in a way that it makes sense to somebody other than you, or CISAS will just reject it anyway.

Edited by deleted (Thu 27-Dec-12 11:49:32)

Kelly,

Why don't you give him a CISAS Deadlock reference number so that he can waste their time instead of yours and ours?

... and still he won't say what his actual problem is!

In reply to a post by Uilebheist:

Well, you'd have to ask the question first and give the ISP a chance to reply.

I've done that (on numerous occasions) and here's their reply. :-

"have now removed your ability to log in to respond."

Why not post the question on here and see if the community can help. However, if you do not pose the question clearly no one is going to be able to help you. Give it a try.

No - you spammed the ticket with 66 replies that didn't actually clarify what you were on about!

In any case you access was restored days ago - several PN staff have tried to get you to explain exactly what your issue is but you have refused.

Quite frankly your behaviour is nothing short of trolling!

Well, if you could state your problem, we can see if it makes sense to at least somebody on this forum. You'll have to do that anyway if you want CISAS to even consider your application.
Your post in the other thread says: "let the public judge" but I'm afraid from this thread it starts to look like there was no problem. And they do have the right to stop access if they decide that ticket are being created just to cause trouble.

Received.

I still don't know what we are in deadlock about though :confused:

I'm perfectly willing to help you out, but I just need a clear statement of the problem. Is it the disconnects you were suffering earlier in the year?

In reply to a post by jelv:

We'd all like to know that, but I think the answer is 42.

You took the words or rather the number right out of my mouth

I have been following this thread with total bewilderment, so many people trying to help and the OP just wittering on without giving any substance to his problem.

In reply to a post by KellyD:

Is it the disconnects you were suffering earlier in the year?

No, it's Plusnet reaction to me following your instructions.

I know you *are* trying to help, but I'm obviously not making myself clear enough! Maybe there's someone else there, that can put a fresh pair of eyes on things. Failing that I have left you a request for a CISAS Deadlock reference number, as requested at the beginning of the thread.

In reply to a post by hk11:

I know you *are* trying to help, but I'm obviously not making myself clear enough!

Deliberately so, as far as I can tell!

A number of "fresh eyes" have reviewed your account. However, it is 4 long ticket conversations, with over 120 different replies backwards and forwards which make it exceptionally difficult to determine what your issue is.

If your problem is to do with your broadband disconnections, then as advised previously, it appears that your connection is currently stable (20 days without disconnection) so if you are still seeing drop outs, you need to either check your own equipment or work with us to determine if there is a problem we aren't seeing on our side.

If your problem is to do with the way we have handled your interactions with us, I apologise for any incorrect or conflicting advice we've given, but please bear in mind that because you had 3-4 open tickets at the same time with responses being posted on each of them it is quite difficult to keep them all in sync and consistent. (This is why we were asking you not to respond to some of the tickets so they would close)

If it is to do you with your question about notification of outages across our support staff, yes we do do this, but sometimes we are slower to notice the outages than our customers, or sometimes our staff make a mistake and don't correlate the call/ticket to the outage. We are only human after all.

If you still have a real problem which you need us to resolve please clearly state it and we will attempt to resolve it. Right now, you've confused all hell out of us with the way you are interacting with us, or you are just behaving trollishly and trying to get us to waste our time.

In reply to a post by KellyD:

with over 120 different replies backwards and forwards which make it exceptionally difficult to determine what your issue is.

And any time now 120 replies here too

Perhaps he does know what he's talking about either so can't put in plain language that others can understand or maybe he's just one of those time wasters.

In reply to a post by KellyD:

Deliberately so, as far as I can tell!

We are clearly not going to agree, so I have submitted a complaint to CISAS without the requested number.

Hmmm,

I'm also struggling to following this, but this is how HK11's threads read on here and the plusnet forum.

Plusnet reps have said they have read through HK11's tickets again and again, and have no clue what his question is. They asked him numerous times to clearly ask the question again without refering to the ticket, as they cannot help or answer HK11 as they dont dont understand what he wants.

Plusnet have run diagnostic tests, and checked HK11's connection logs their side, and he is and has been connected to the internet for 16+ days without any disconnections.

HK11 still has not explained what his question is and complained Plusnet wont help or answer his question, Thus went on a DOS Attack on twitter, facebook and the ticket system by repeated spamming.

Plusnet responded to the DOS Attack by blocking his access to their facebook, twitter pages and the customers website control panel/ticket system removing his spam. They instructed him to call them on the telephone as they still have no clue what his problem is.

HK11 is now asking for a CISAS Deadlock reference number here on the Thinkbroadband forum.


Does anybody actually know what HK11's problem is exactly?

In reply to a post by wanapoo:

Does anybody actually know what HK11's problem is exactly?

Attitude?

You don't need a CISAS Deadlock number. You can complain to CISAS when:

In reference to www.cisas.org.uk/CISASRules-12_e.html:

c) Customers can use the scheme if:

� they have not been able to settle a dispute with the company within eight weeks of complaining to the company; or

� the company has agreed, in writing, that the dispute should be settled under the scheme.

However it does not seem that you have yet formally complained to PN but just put to them a support query (which they don't seem to understand).

In reply to a post by hk11:

We are clearly not going to agree, so I have submitted a complaint to CISAS without the requested number.

I'm not sure what the point of you posting here is. Noone here has any sympathy for you since you have not stated why you are unhappy or what the so called "question" is that Plusnet haven't answered.

You must have been trolling their support staff and forums very hard for them to remove your access to the portal, I doubt very much they'd do that lightly. Quite frankly Plusnet are probably on the verge of kicking you off with 10 days notice as is their right, since you are wasting large amount of support staff time demanding an answer to a question you haven't asked.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

You don't need a CISAS Deadlock number.

Thanks.

Have submitted complaint without one.

And you better hope they don't see your posts here.

@KellyD

I'm not expecting HK11 to answer, so If you are able to answer my question instead.

"Was HK11's tickets anything to do with him being unable to remotely access his home network externally from the internet?"


Thanks if you can answer

As I understand it you need a deadlock letter not so much a number. Going by this anyway. Over 8 weeks you can then write without it

It does appear that the company is not sure what you are deadlocked over and as this forum is primary here so that fellow members can offer help and advice, you have quite frankly not provided even a hint of what your issue is so that they can help.

As you have submitted a complaint to CISAS further discussion here is rather pointless as I doubt that Plusnet would comment further, and neither should you I suggest,....... and our members are in no position to help.

The good side is that a formal complaint will by no doubt to be detailed so that the company can then respond directly to yourself.

CICAS may be able to help us get to the bottom of the problem

Which would be nice!

In reply to a post by Sadoldman:

you have quite frankly not provided even a hint of what your issue is so that they can help.

I thought I had re :-

In reply to a post by hk11:

In summary it's OK for you to repeat the same question over and over again, but if I do it you remove my ability to view your entire website or even post on a public forum such as Facebook, even though I've done exactly as you instructed!

In reply to a post by KellyD:

Which would be nice!

Feel free to PM or email me, if you think I can clarify. It is obviously me being thick here.

Funny how you read (and quoted and replied to) an answer to that, but still insist it wasn't answered.

As I said, best left with CISAS now that you have taken that step.

In reply to a post by Sadoldman:

As I said, best left with CISAS now that you have taken that step.

OK, thanks.

Feel free to lock the thread or whatever as this topic's question was answered anyway.

Is it just me that thinks hk11's signature tells quite a story in itself?

Previously - Virgin/NTL/Bell Cable, Crosswinds, IC24, FreeOnlineNet, X-Stream,
Totalise, Freeserve, Force9, TescoNet, AOL, Freenetname, Pipex, E7

I wonder if he left all of them voluntarily?

I set my display preferences to "do not display signatures", so thanks for the laugh - I would have missed it.

Please think in terms of someone who has not read any of your tickets/questions, any of your posts on here, the community forums, twitter, facebook, the group plusnet.service.customer-feedback on Plusnet's Usenet or anywhere else you've posted.

Now bearing in mind what I've said above please explain clearly what your issue is. If it's the way Plusnet responded to something in the past explain what the issue was and why you were not happy with their response.

There's any number of people who would like to see this resolved, but if you can't explain the issue clearly without any reference to what has gone before you can't be helped.

You could treat this as a dry run for your complaint to CICAS because if you can't explain it clearly to them you will get nowhere with them either.

In reply to a post by jelv:

There's any number of people who would like to see this resolved, but if you can't explain the issue clearly without any reference to what has gone before you can't be helped.

I can (sort of) understand you not reading my posts, but I would have thought you'd take notice of Moderators. :-

In reply to a post by Sadoldman:

As you have submitted a complaint to CISAS further discussion here is rather pointless as I doubt that Plusnet would comment further, and neither should you I suggest,....... and our members are in no position to help.

I'd happily discuss/comment further if more information about the problem appeared, but I'm still in the dark really.

Is it April 1st???!

Plusnet would really like to resolve the issues without having to go to CISAS. If you do manage to explain to CISAS what your issue is and they forward the complaint on to Plusnet they'll do something. So why not save time and trouble by starting from scratch and explaining exactly what your issue is?

There's a lot of people who have really, really tried to help you, but I never ever in my life have come across anyone who so stubbornly refuses to be helped!

In reply to a post by KellyD:

I'd happily discuss/comment further if more information about the problem appeared, but I'm still in the dark really.

OK.

1) Plusnet keep asking me about my wireless connection. Why is this if, as you acknowledge, I don't use wireless?

2) Plusnet keep asking me what I mean by "line down" and is the problem I'm reporting to Plusnet about a service from BT. Why would I bother Plusnet over a BT issue?

3) Plusnet say I must re-ask a question. Why is this required when they have acknowledged receipt of said question?

4) Why, when I follow Plisnet's instructions (ask a question), do you remove my ability to view my broadband useage?

5) Why after removing my ability to reply to their question page, do they then remove my ability to follow up on Facebook?

3, 4 and 5 appear to me to be consequences of your interaction with Plusnet about issue 2.

Issue 2: Given that Plusnet have said you've had a continuous connection of over 15 days (and counting) and that previous connections have been of similar length it seems a perfectly reasonable question. They cannot see frequent disconnections so they are asking you exactly what the symptoms are of what you are seeing.

Issue 1: Frustrating but understandable. Where people say they lose their internet connection but Plusnet can see long stable connections in the vast majority of cases it's the wireless that is dropping out. I suggest you ignore that (as Kelly has acknowledged it's false) and concentrate on working with them on item 2.

Edited by jelv (Thu 27-Dec-12 16:20:38)

Deleted - hit reply instead of Edit!

Edited by jelv (Thu 27-Dec-12 16:21:18)

I don't think Jelv was suggesting he hadn't read your posts.

Also, I'm sure the mods were not trying to place an absolute ban on you explaining yourself further, should you feel able to do so. If you could clear things up without having to go to arbitration about it, it would presumably be quicker and easier for all concerned.

I think, all that was being suggested was that you try to explain AS IF to someone who doesn't know anything of the history :i.e. hasn't seen any of your questions, or the replies to them, or posts on any forums.

Imagine a friend said: "I gather you've been having trouble with your ISP? What happened, exactly?" How would you explain the story to him? Without saying things like: "They still haven't answered my question", because that would rely on your friend already knowing about your question.

You seem to think you're making yourself clear, and perhaps you're really trying to, but I must say I'm having exactly the same problem as Plusnet, in that I can't understand what the issue is that you want fixed.

I don't need a transcript of your exact original question to them. I'm just hoping you might summarise, in a few sentences, what happened that you're unhappy with, and what help you're asking for with it.

Do you just want an apology? Something to be mended that still isn't working? Some sort of compensation for something? What are you asking PN to do?

Tina

What are you asking PN to do?

That is probably the best question to start with.

HK11 - in order to consider the matter resolved what would you want them to do? When you go to CISAS what are you expecting them to be able to do that would mean you accept the matter is resolved?

In reply to a post by hk11:

1) Plusnet keep asking me about my wireless connection. Why is this if, as you acknowledge, I don't use wireless?

Wireless was originally suggested as a possible issue in the ticket dialogue after we determined that you were seeing drop outs on your connection that we couldn't see. You specified then after that you weren't using wireless, but a couple of answers missed that due to the large number of open tickets and dialogue.

The issue here is one of ticket length and complexity and we apologise for any wasted time.

In reply to a post by hk11:

2) Plusnet keep asking me what I mean by "line down" and is the problem I'm reporting to Plusnet about a service from BT. Why would I bother Plusnet over a BT issue?

This is because the support staff were not seeing your line disconnecting so were attempting to help you diagnose an issue. I believe the part of the ticket history you are referring to is this:

"Can you tell me when you refer to the "line down again" are you refereing (sic) to your broadband connection or your actual telephone line? If you can let me know then we can look to see if there are any known issues. "

You subsequently replied asking when we took over the line, which we hadn't. The Support Agent was just attempting to get you to explain what you were seeing so we could diagnose the problem further.

In reply to a post by hk11:

3) Plusnet say I must re-ask a question. Why is this required when they have acknowledged receipt of said question?

Do you have a date and time of this question being asked so I can workout what you are referring to?

In reply to a post by hk11:

4) Why, when I follow Plisnet's instructions (ask a question), do you remove my ability to view my broadband useage?

Because the towards the end of the ticket your responses were send the ticket back to us cutting and pasting the same question back to us over and over again, despite us asking what the problem was. James, who was handling the ticket by this time, warned you he would remove access because he believed you were just wasting our time due to not attempting to clarify the question and after ignoring that, he removed your access to the portal.

In reply to a post by hk11:

5) Why after removing my ability to reply to their question page, do they then remove my ability to follow up on Facebook?

Because the our Digital Care team, believing you were only interesting in trolling us, didn't want you to continually paste the same question on Facebook.

Reading the last 20 or so of your ticket responses, it does look like trolling. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt though, because even if you were, I still don't want us to have customers so frustrated that they resort to that sort of thing. Once we've sorted it, I'll happy get all your access restored (like we've already done on the portal)

Does this mean that you are currently happy with your connection and your remaining issues are how we've handled our interactions with you? (if so, that's a bit of good news at least!)

In reply to a post by KellyD:

issues are how we've handled our interactions with you? (if so, that's a bit of good news at least!)

That's been my (obviously mistyped) point all along!

You keep asking the same questions, so I got fed up with explaining in detail. Cutting and pasting the question was the easiest thing to do, as you seemed to be doing the same thing.

That wasn't very constructive was it!

In reply to a post by KellyD:

In reply to a post by hk11:

2) Plusnet keep asking me what I mean by "line down" and is the problem I'm reporting to Plusnet about a service from BT. Why would I bother Plusnet over a BT issue?

This is because the support staff were not seeing your line disconnecting so were attempting to help you diagnose an issue. I believe the part of the ticket history you are referring to is this:

"Can you tell me when you refer to the "line down again" are you refereing (sic) to your broadband connection or your actual telephone line? If you can let me know then we can look to see if there are any known issues. "

That's a fair enough Q to the OP when he's asking just about a "line". The OP has distorted in this thread this reasonable Q into an accusation just about his BT phone line w/out making clear he was just asked to clarify which of the 2 connections he was talking about.

No wonder you have a job getting a straight answer out of the OP. This single instance is sufficient to illustrate your problem with him.

Good luck to CISAS on dealing with him

In reply to a post by TLM:

Also, I'm sure the mods were not trying to place an absolute ban on you explaining yourself further, should you feel able to do so. If you could clear things up without having to go to arbitration about it, it would presumably be quicker and easier for all concerned.
Tina

I would never suggest a ban on posting if there is a chance of resolution From reading this thread however it seemed to me that it could go on forever...as it seemed to elsewhere.

It is also a fact that the proper way to resolve an issue with an ISP is directly with that ISP. Highlight issues on our BBS certainly, but an ISP has to keep in mind the confidentiality of the customer.

Seems to me not a single issue problem.