Clarification re: migration

Phoned BT today just to enquire what charges I'd have to endure if I wanted to migrate, and as I had started my broadband with them May 8th 2008 with an 18 month contract on Option 1, I would have to pay £7.75 per month still left to run (in my case till November) plus a £25.00 cancellation charge. I'm confused at what exactly this £25 is for...anyone know? I assumed this would be a cease charge, but not a charge for migrating away?

£25 cancellation charge. I think the clue is in the word cancellation charge

The £25.00 cease charge is only applied if your cancel the Broadband service all together. If you are migrating your Broadband to other provider using the Ofcom agreed MAC Code process, the £25.00 charge will not apply. The cease charge is only if you decide to have the Broadband service removed totally from your line.

David

BT Support,

Thank you David.

Hi David.So i take it this charge applies to people going to sky on an LLU. If so, is this a charge primarily to try and penalise people using a competitors network. Very naughty if it is the case.

Hi David.So i take it this charge applies to people going to sky on an LLU. If so, is this a charge primarily to try and penalise people using a competitors network. Very naughty if it is the case.

I'm not David, but the clue is in his answer

The £25.00 cease charge is only applied if your cancel the Broadband service all together. If you are migrating your Broadband to other provider using the Ofcom agreed MAC Code process, the £25.00 charge will not apply.

I believe as with Be* and with some other LLU providers, a MAC code generated by the BTWholesale systems is valid to get migrated over onto their products and the £25 doesn't apply.

It would only apply if your gaining ISP didn't accept a BTWholesale MAC - and I don't think there are any ISP's that won't..

No you are not David, that's why i tagged my post to Davids reply

As you are not David, i will take your thoughts as a pinch of salt. AS i would like the response to be from David, so i get the facts from a BT employee, not a reply from a customer

Edited by deleted (Sun 05-Jul-09 13:34:09)

*cough* Ex customer

arnt we all

I would like Dave to explain to me, if this in fact effects people that move to Sky and its infrastructure, by passing all of BT equipment at the exchange. IE moving to SKY and using sky line rental and skys infrastructure and equipment. If the answer is yes than this levy is a punishment to people who dare use a competitor.

In reply to a post by dusty:

Hi David.So i take it this charge applies to people going to sky on an LLU. If so, is this a charge primarily to try and penalise people using a competitors network. Very naughty if it is the case.

Dear Dusty,

The post by David is quite clear and specific.

A migration to Sky LLU requires a MAC. Therefore there will be no cease of broadband provision on the line and no charge.

I find it impossible to believe that as an obviously intelligent person you do not already know this.

Sometimes you are pedantic. Sometimes you are right. This time you are just posting for the sake of starting an argument.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 06-Jul-09 01:39:47)

No you are posting for the sake of an argument, i am posting for the sake of clarification. As sky are migrating its own customers on to a new system, i wanted to know how this affects BT customers migrating.

So please refrain from trying to cause an argument, its not right, its not clever, so don't do it.

£25 fee only applies according to their own terms and conditons when u cease the broadband, migration is free

It seems the young lady I spoke to at BT got herself in a bit of a twist and gave me the wrong info. I stated I wanted to migrate to one of the Enta resellers on the same ADSL platform, but for some reason she thought I wanted to cease the service, hence the £25 charge + £7.75 per month wrong info. To be honest, I thought she was confusing herself, at one point she was muttering something about an extra £25 to change the ADSL platform (ie to LLU) which is NOT what I wanted - my local exchange has no LLU so its no use to me. She even said I'd have to pay £40 for the Hub, until she realised oh yeah, I've had it longer than 12 months. D'oh!

Anyway, I called back again a few days later and I had no problem getting the right information on that occasion - I only need to pay the remainder of contract (i.e. 6 months X £15.65) and no £25 charge. Simples!

Think I might leave it till September. I'm on Option 1 on BTBB, but some months I've gone over the 10Gb limit. I would upgrade to Option 2 or 3, but no way am I gonna be held to another 12/18 month contract, hence the reason I'd rather go back to one of the Enta resellers with the 1 month contract and a far bigger choice of packages to choose from.

I take the unwillingness for BT to answer the question, as a inclination that my suspicions are correct.

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as a inclination that my suspicions are correct
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Well you're wrong.

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The £25.00 cease charge is only applied if your cancel the Broadband service all together.
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Dunno what part of "cancel the Broadband service all together. you don't understand.

Hint, "alltogether", as no more broadband.

Openreach charge ALL ISP's for a cease, it's up to them if they pass it on, many/most do.

Jeez, you do not get it do you

If you are going to be put on Sky's new infrastructure in its entirety, you will no longer be using any BT equipment. This could be classed as a cease. I would like clarification, not you copying and pasting what i already know.

If you are going to be put on Sky's new infrastructure in its entirety, you will no longer be using any BT equipment.

It works without the landline or the BT OpenReach jumpering of that to the Sky kit then?

Wow - technology really has left me behind.

Is TalkTalk the same? Now if you to tell us a few people who have had to pay BT £25 to move to TalkTalk or Tiscali then perhaps you would have a valid point.

A research project for you. Facts, not dust thrown in the air.

In your slightly earlier post I take it you meant "indication", not "inclination". Perhaps a lack of English vocabulary explains your inability to comprehend formal English.

More likely the reason for not replying to you is that busy support staff, who see that everyone other than you understands, have decided to get on with things that matter.

Well this took you a fair few days to reply after your ever so delightful posts. You been googling again to make your self look smart, not working

It works without the landline or the BT OpenReach jumpering of that to the Sky kit then?

That's what i want to know, as sky are now moving everyone "who do not opped out", they will be moved over to sky in its entirety.. I pay sky for my line rental and they service my line, not BT. So you may need to do a bit more googling to get your facts right.

Hope to see a new post in a few days

Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Jul-09 16:44:38)

In reply to a post by dusty:

Well this took you a fair few days to reply after your ever so delightful posts. You been googling again to make your self look smart, not working

It works without the landline or the BT OpenReach jumpering of that to the Sky kit then?

That's what i want to know, as sky are now moving everyone "who do not opped out", they will be moved over to sky in its entirety.. I pay sky for my line rental and they service my line, not BT. So you may need to do a bit more googling to get your facts right.

Hope to see a new post in a few days

re the few days - 2 actually. There wasn't anything worth saying till your latest drivel.

So the line to your house goes to a Sky street cabinet and via Sky cabling to the exchange where it connects to a Sky DSLAM? Either that, or Sky engineers now have physical access to the insides of the BT street cabinets and the BT-restricted areas in the BT exchange.

I really am out of date.

Not sure about out of date, but misguided. My point being you are disconnected from the BT network, you do not seem to grasp that. Maybe a bit from openreach it self might satisfy you and i will highlight what i am trying to get at, all along

The local loop is the copper telephone line between an end customer's house or business and the nearest BT exchange. Openreach sells two product variants. With Full Local Loop Unbundling, another Communications Provider rents the whole line from Openreach. The line is physically disconnected from BT's network at the exchange and connected to another network. The customer only gets services from the other provider over the line and doesn't receive bills from BT.
With Shared Local Loop Unbundling, Openreach only rents to the Communications Provider the part of the copper line used to deliver broadband services. The part of the line used to deliver voice services is retained by Openreach and made available to provider of voice services, including other parts of BT. In this case the copper line isn't fully disconnected from BT's network, but a 'splitter' is used at the exchange to separate broadband and voice. The customer gets two bills, one from the voice provider (BT or another voice provider) for the voice part of the copper line and one from the local loop unbundler.

So if you are disconnected from the BT network, is this classed as a cease and you are charged £25.

It seems that it is you googling now . I didn't need to find that as I know how FMPF and SMPF are related.

Incidentally the description of the difference between FMPF and SMPF and how the voice and ADSL signals are separated is technically garbage - although the end result is similar. (Which means someone with half a clue made up a plausible but only partly correct explanation of what he/she knew).

I think if you read my previous post in this thread, and also yours, you will see that mine are fully consistent with that paragraph of description, and your recent ones completely contradicted by it.

Not only that but your conclusion is illogical. The commercial arrangements are totally separate from the absolute fact that a BT Openreach line is used, with all the necessary ancillary and connection equipment and cabling. The line is part of the BT network, not disconnected from it.

There was a post in another thread recently relevant to this. It quoted paragraph 8 from this link.

A move to Full LLU is "another recognised transfer process".

Your turn.

Err googled, no i read that before, hence my query in the first place As for your link it shows me BT prices

Still trying to grasp what part of disconnected from the BT network do you not understand and my point if so is this classed as a cease. Why oh why are you trying to bamboozle it with your complicated clap trap

Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Jul-09 18:21:18)

In reply to a post by dusty:

Err googled, no i read that before, hence my query in the first place As for your link it shows me BT prices

Still trying to grasp what part of disconnected from the BT network do you not understand and my point if so is this classed as a cease. Why oh why are you trying to bamboozle it with your complicated clap trap

Try reading my previous post again and follow the instructions.

Not trying to bamboozle, just correct an incomprehension by you of several aspects. However having now established the extent of your inability to follow anything - see the first sentence - it isn't surprising I am getting nowhere.

I gather you are currently or were recently on Sky Partial LLU and Sky Talk, and may be moving or have just moved to full LLU.

For your information from the moment you went on to Sky LLU the line from your house ended on the Sky DSLAM, so was already completely disconnected from the BT network in your terms. I am on O2 (partial) LLU, so my line ends on an O2/Be DSLAM. So mine is completely disconnected from the BT network - in your terms. My phone service is still with BT.

The splitting takes place on the DSLAM for anyone on ADSL, including BT IPStream or IPSC. The voice circuit to the required telephony provider is then jumpered from the DSLAM. This is the case even for BT IPStream users.

The saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" seems to apply to you. I suggest a refresher course in English Language and Comprehension, followed by reading some technical digests on internet connection technology.

But for now just try the stuff I pointed you to before but which you failed to find.

No in my terms BT say disconnected from BT network. All i want to know do they count that as a cease. Its very simple question, made totally complicated by you. I am not interested in knowing the ins and outs of BT. I have a life and If i knew the answers i would not be asking this very simple question on here. Lets be honest you are not qualified to answer the question. Just because you spend your time reading things on the net does not make you an expert on anything except reading things on the net

You think you know, i stress the word think and the irony of your quote "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

I gather you still haven't read what I pointed you to, as that is the relevant paragraph in the BT Terms and Conditions. It answers your question.

Unless you read that, or really even if you do and still fail to understand, I cannot help you any more. I don't think anything could be more definitive or clear than what it says.

All other discussion of the subject is based on that, or in your case anything but that.

You may now look forward to another couple of days of silence from me until you talk twaddle about something else that bothers me. This subject is exhausted as the factual answer is available to you.

I read it but it does not answer my question, if you are disconnected from the BT network does the cease apply, its like talking to a brick wall

Face it you don't no the answer, you are just posting what you read. All i want is a simple yes/no from a BT rep. The people that know, not arm chair experts that think they know it all because they google everything.

Even though you pay Sky your line rental, Sky then pay a reduced amount to BT under Wholesale Line Rental agreements. Sky do not service your line , this is done by Openreach, Sky deal with BT to handle line faults etc. So really you are just adding one more layer of bureaucracy

the BT support reps are here to support BT customers and as you are not a BT customer dont expect BT to spend time and money answering your questions.

So you are saying BT reps are not here for general enquires and only talk to customers. Ok thanks for clearing that up, and who are you?

Hi.

Just to confirm, if a customer uses a MAC code to transfer to someone else, the charge doesn't apply.

If they contact us and say "I want to cancel my service" and therefore no MAC code is issued, and no MAC code is used by another service provider to take over the service, the charge applies.

All the best,

Stephanie
BT Support

So Can you just clear this up because, we all know that anyways. I am asking a simple question that you are not answering. With sky and its new platform it is putting customers on, do you still take a mac to transfer customers who leave BT to join sky, when they leave the network etc.

The rep has cleared it up!

You move to Sky with a Mac. Whether they put you on their fully unbundled 'new network' or not there is no cease charge from BT or downtime.

However, migrating from Sky's fully unbundled 'New Network' to BT or any other provider and you are looking at downtime and connection charges from some providers. Perhaps you should be taking that up with the Sky reps?

When I moved into this house I took over a TalkTalk fully unbundled line. I had no phone or internet for 10 working whilst clearing TalkTalk from the line.

Edited by deleted (Fri 10-Jul-09 18:33:27)

Thank you, i wish it was put as plainly as that before.

I ask a simple question, i do not know the answer to it, that's why i asked. Them arm chair experts come on here over complicating it with Science.

Cheers

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

However, migrating from Sky's fully unbundled 'New Network' to BT or any other provider and you are looking at downtime and connection charges from some providers. Perhaps you should be taking that up with the Sky reps?

When I moved into this house I took over a TalkTalk fully unbundled line. I had no phone or internet for 10 working whilst clearing TalkTalk from the line.

All that is a distinct possibily for anyone that tries to leave Sky after they get put on Sky's new network. Many days of no internet connection plus possible connection charges to whoever your new ISP may be.