Usage changes

I sure some will be unhappy still, but BT are making changes to the usage policy for the heavy usage allowance aka 'Unlimited' from 100GB to 300GB. Plus a few other changes and a usage monitor, link below thanks to KerryG.

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/WHERE-IS-OUR-U...

Edited by oddius (Fri 20-Aug-10 20:34:03)

I'm not happy, as you can see by my reply.To me £1 to £4 now will be £5 minimum in November.

100GB to 300GB now that's more like it nice one BT. I take it that it will also be from Nov 1st.

41gig would cost £21 excess use on the old option 2 whereas now is a fiver. Seems pretty fair. Punters using more than that would be foolish not to be on 'unlimited 'anyway.

BT just got more competitive.

I'm on Total BB option 1 and usually go over my 10gb allowance by 2gb which now costs me £2 per month,in November it's going to cost me £5 per month, I don't use enough to warant upgrading to option 2 and to be quite honest I can't really afford to on my pension.

i was thinking very hard of going with AAisp on monday but now bt has upped the uage to 300 gigs i am in doubts who to go with but bt is 18 months and aaisp is 12 months
what do you recken people

bt or aaisp ?????

Im a little confused with this...
"Additional usage will be charged at 5GB for £5 (instead of 1GB for £1)"

Does that mean if you go over by just 1GB now you will get billed an extra £5 rather than £1 ??
If not can someone explain what this means, as otherwise i cant see it.

The increase on the other option product from 100gig to 300gig is very good news and makes their Fibre products far more attractive now even to me (I suggest everyone waits for confirmation on that figure increase before counting chickens, i assume it does apply to Infinity option 2?? And this rep is actually speaking facts rather than what people want to hear).

Why dont BT now advertise their other product as a 300gig product rather than unlimited? I cant see anyone thinking 300gig isnt enough for a £25 a month fibre product. (AGAIN assuming it is relevant to Infinity option 2). They would get even more respect from me personally if they now did that and got shot of the unlimited nonsense blub.

Also well done to BT on FINALLY doing a usage calculator.... Thats been way overdue considering even small firms have offered them for years. Its nice to see they are finally listening to people, well done BT you finally have some (just a smidge ) of respect from me on your internet products.

One thing they do deserve a slap on the wrists for though and i personally still think is out of order twaddle...
quote"This means that the traffic management policy will only impact those customers who are driving exceptionally heavy usage � this is a small minority and accounts for less than 0.5% of our customers."

Errrrrrrr wasnt it only 0.5% of customers when it was a 100gig cap? Hmm some screwy maths there or more lying, i think.

Other than that though good news

In reply to a post by Johnct:

i was thinking very hard of going with AAisp on monday but now bt has upped the uage to 300 gigs i am in doubts who to go with but bt is 18 months and aaisp is 12 months
what do you recken people

bt or aaisp ?????

ID still personally FOR THE RIGHT NOW pick AAISP, until some of the claims from that post are 100% iron clad confirmed.

How much is 300gig anytime on aaisp?

12gig a month is uncompetitive on BT Option 1 with excess usage. I would call to get my mac and see what they offer.

aaisp charge by the unit For £27.98 a month including fftc rental, the base price package includes 2 units to start with.

Thats equivalent to:
4GB peak usage (9am-6pm Mon-Fri)
OR
200GB off-peak usage (6pm-9am and Weekends) 0.1 of a unit is used per 10 gigs
OR
2000GB Night usage (2am-6am everyday) 0.01 of a unit is used per 10 gigs

Upstream is not counted.

Each additional unit you buy ((£3 )will provide either an extra 2GB Peak usage, 100GB off-peak usage, or 1000GB night usage

Edited by deleted (Sat 21-Aug-10 00:33:15)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

How much is 300gig anytime on aaisp?

The 300gig from BT isnt technically anytime though is it???

Do BT not have some term which basically says please do heavy using in off peak hours?
I know its certainly the case for P2P.

If you start downloading 4 or 8gig files during busy periods and doing it regular will that be fine? Somehow i imagine right now it may be but once a few people start the FUP will change.

The post does say "We will continue to monitor this policy." I imagine thats for the bad and good.

Also i can see no option on AAISP site to even allow you to have 300gig during peak hours on a home FTTC connection anyway. Then again i dont think their pricing and the way they do it is the clearest in the world, but that could just be me.

very true capertburn . plus the support i got from aaisp do with my complex questions they were very helpful and it is in england not likes bt`s support whos is overseas !

yep you could download 300 gigs peak on aaisp BUT at 10 gigs a day it would be £30 a day(£900 for month !! ) if you used from 9am to 6pm

In reply to a post by Johnct:

very true capertburn . plus the support i got from aaisp do with my complex questions they were very helpful and it is in england not likes bt`s support whos is overseas !

Yeah seem like a good company, i just wish they made the pricing more simple, too many drop down options etc, confuses an old so and so like me. Units and gigs....... Its like decimalisation all over again. Can see their idea and its good in theory but you have to look through and read a few times to grasp it all.

In reply to a post by Johnct:

yep you could download 300 gigs peak on aaisp BUT at 10 gigs a day it would be £30 a day(£900 for month !! ) if you used from 9am to 6pm

OUCH! (to keep it polite )

Edited by deleted (Sat 21-Aug-10 00:16:27)

what do you recken i toss a coin to see who i go for lol

In reply to a post by Johnct:

what do you recken i toss a coin to see who i go for lol

Id sit down and examine your usage and what you need per month... If you dont need anywhere near 300gig and what you do need is affordable from AAISP go with them.
Id like more evidence that 300gig is true before running to BT (but thats my personal thoughts, what BT support workers state can not always be taken for gospel).

Your other options (depending on your line speed/quality) are ADSL2+ or LLU services if your exchange has them, though if you are a distance from the exchange and want speed they probably wont suit.

Edited by deleted (Sat 21-Aug-10 01:11:56)

In reply to a post by Johnct:

yep you could download 300 gigs peak on aaisp BUT at 10 gigs a day it would be £30 a day(£900 for month !! ) if you used from 9am to 6pm

I was leaning towards AASIP for FTTC before they changed there system, finally going for BT as most of my usage is 9am-6pm at present, as you point out AAISP would have been rather an expensive option.

Edited by oddius (Sat 21-Aug-10 08:13:32)

In reply to a post by oddius:

In reply to a post by Johnct:

yep you could download 300 gigs peak on aaisp BUT at 10 gigs a day it would be £30 a day(£900 for month !! ) if you used from 9am to 6pm

I was leaning towards AASIP for FTTC before they changed there system, finally going for BT as most of my usage is 9am-6pm at present, as you point out AAISP would have been rather an expensive option.

?
The system has been in place since the beginning of the year. I think that was well before FTTC was available with any ISP.

All they have done is add FTTC to the selection and price lists.

Hi RobertoS,

I know, I moved ISP and to FTTC in late March. Before then I was considering a move from Demon to AASIP but decided I would not get any improvement in speed.

In reply to a post by CARPETBURN:

Errrrrrrr wasnt it only 0.5% of customers when it was a 100gig cap? Hmm some screwy maths there or more lying, i think.

Other than that though good news

If it helps your maths this the quote from the warning email.

You have received this email because your broadband usage this month means you are a very heavy user (which is typically less than 1 per cent of all customers).

the great service from aa is swinging me towards them i would say most of my usage would be around 6pm onwards and the fact that aa one of the units you use could give you 1000 gigs a month late at nite nothing to sniffed at !

In reply to a post by Johnct:

aaisp charge by the unit For £27.98 a month including fftc rental, the base price package includes 2 units to start with.

Thats equivalent to:
4GB peak usage (9am-6pm Mon-Fri)
OR
200GB off-peak usage (6pm-9am and Weekends) 0.1 of a unit is used per 10 gigs
OR
2000GB Night usage (2am-6am everyday) 0.01 of a unit is used per 10 gigs

Upstream is not counted.

Each additional unit you buy ((£3 )will provide either an extra 2GB Peak usage, 100GB off-peak usage, or 1000GB night usage

Well that's nice and simple then

In reply to a post by Johnct:

the great service from aa is swinging me towards them i would say most of my usage would be around 6pm onwards and the fact that aa one of the units you use could give you 1000 gigs a month late at nite nothing to sniffed at !

I was with AA until recently. They do have good customer service, their lack of contracts and small print is nice, however they are damned expensive if you intend doing pretty much anything at peak time. I know that's stating the obvious and they have their pricing layed out very clearly but it's something keep in mind.

Personally I migrated to O2, not because I'm a particularly heavy user, I just didn't like having to think twice before watching something on Youtube/iPlayer if I was off work.

Don't forget that a particular unit isn't restricted to one time-zone. You can use 0.3 of a unit in peak, another 0.5 of it in off-peak, and the last 0.2 in night-time.

for anyone looking for a good campany at off peak times aa is the best so far (that`s my own opion !!) and going by the website if there is any problems with the line they seem very quick to respond and to chase up bt openreach.

In reply to a post by TJNewton:

In reply to a post by CARPETBURN:

Errrrrrrr wasnt it only 0.5% of customers when it was a 100gig cap? Hmm some screwy maths there or more lying, i think.

Other than that though good news

If it helps your maths this the quote from the warning email.

You have received this email because your broadband usage this month means you are a very heavy user (which is typically less than 1 per cent of all customers).

If thats what it said when the limit was 100gig then that is likely screwy maths.

Though im not going to rag on them too much for now if the new 300gig figure turns out to be true i think thats more than enough for any home user currently. Anyone going over that amount regularly i would say needs to reduce their linux *cough* usage.

Edited by deleted (Sat 21-Aug-10 17:31:24)

Errrrrrrr wasnt it only 0.5% of customers when it was a 100gig cap? Hmm some screwy maths there or more lying, i think.

Actually I think the letters people have quoted reference <1% of customers using more than 100G/month, so no contradiction if <0.5% use more than 300G/month?

That said, the updated limit of 300G/month, should be more than sufficient for home use for the majority of us. By my maths, as posted elsewhere, equates to approx 75 HD films a month, for example, which should be enough - I can well believe <0.5% of us use more than that at present.

Would be good to see the option of paying more for a higher limit though, just in case FTTC/P speeds lead to much higher levels of data use, eg for HD TV streaming etc - especially in homes with multiple computers/TVs.

i think there is no install price to pay if you go with bt (option 2 inifinity)
aaisp there`s is a install of £50 for FTTC pity

In reply to a post by New_Londoner:

Errrrrrrr wasnt it only 0.5% of customers when it was a 100gig cap? Hmm some screwy maths there or more lying, i think.

Actually I think the letters people have quoted reference <1% of customers using more than 100G/month, so no contradiction if <0.5% use more than 300G/month?

That said, the updated limit of 300G/month, should be more than sufficient for home use for the majority of us. By my maths, as posted elsewhere, equates to approx 75 HD films a month, for example, which should be enough - I can well believe <0.5% of us use more than that at present.

Would be good to see the option of paying more for a higher limit though, just in case FTTC/P speeds lead to much higher levels of data use, eg for HD TV streaming etc - especially in homes with multiple computers/TVs.

Seems like a "fair" limit overall. 300GB should be sufficient for just about everyone, including those in bigger households and those moving onto the infinity service.

Nice to see BT actually listening for once and implementing worthwhile and sought after changes. (including the usage monitor)

Now, at 25 quid for the up to 40mbit infinity, with very nice uploads, and a 300GB "cap", BT is probably the best deal out there.

Edited by orly (Sat 21-Aug-10 18:48:41)

In reply to a post by orly:

...........
Now, at 25 quid for the up to 40mbit infinity, with very nice uploads, and a 300GB "cap", BT is probably the best deal out there.

I agree entirely with one provision........

As long as they dont throttle the speed on every protocol you are likely to get anywhere close to 300gig doing. That would be my only concern.

Does anyone know what speed they throttle the likes of P2P traffic, newsgroups, P2P streaming services etc down to on infinity products? It appears P2P is definately throttled already...

The FUP...
http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10495...
States...
"Because a lot of P2P traffic is not time-critical, e.g., downloading and uploading TV programmes or movies for later viewing, we treat P2P traffic differently from time-critical traffic (such as surfing, streaming or internet telephony) and apply speed restrictions to all P2P traffic. We manage these restrictions daily based on the demands on the network, but downstream restrictions will typically be in place 4pm - midnight on weekdays and 9am - midnight on the weekend. Upstream restrictions may be in place at other times."

Anyone know what speed they throttle traffic like this down to? There are a couple of legal movie services that do use P2P technology.

Also my business has an FTP for both uploading and downloading from clients, which is critical. Would that be considered P2P? I know some ISPs do consider it as a peer to peer transfer and some dont.

I've no problem with p2p being throttled as I don't use it I think the legal p2p traffic must be very small.

As for Newsgroups if they did shape them just SSL your connection and they can't classify it anyway.

Does anyone know when BT are releasing the usage monitor???

Cheers

Steve

October 1st.

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

I've no problem with p2p being throttled as I don't use it I think the legal p2p traffic must be very small.

As for Newsgroups if they did shape them just SSL your connection and they can't classify it anyway.

Quite a lot of games, especially mmos, distribute patches via a system thats often identified as P2P traffic and throttled... its no joke trying to download a 400MB game update at ~3-7KB/s or whatever BT decide to throttle it to next... especially as it always seems to be on that one day you have off work - new patch comes out, wrong time of day and your throttled to hell - and was looking forward to playing the game.

In reply to a post by Rroff:

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

I've no problem with p2p being throttled as I don't use it I think the legal p2p traffic must be very small.

As for Newsgroups if they did shape them just SSL your connection and they can't classify it anyway.

Quite a lot of games, especially mmos, distribute patches via a system thats often identified as P2P traffic and throttled... its no joke trying to download a 400MB game update at ~3-7KB/s or whatever BT decide to throttle it to next... especially as it always seems to be on that one day you have off work - new patch comes out, wrong time of day and your throttled to hell - and was looking forward to playing the game.

Yep similar things can also happen with video chat software, gets identified as p2p and you end up basically not being able to use the app.

Certain legal movie streaming services have also been known in the past to be identified as p2p when obviously it isnt.

They state surfing, streaming or internet telephony isnt throttled but id like to know how thats the case in every app or program, because some of them do get identified as p2p.

Ive even known rtsp:// traffic to wrongly be identified as p2p on some networks.

P2P throttling doesnt allows equal just stopping illegal use torrent traffic or actual p2p applications.

Edited by deleted (Sun 22-Aug-10 17:03:27)

In reply to a post by Rroff:

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

I've no problem with p2p being throttled as I don't use it I think the legal p2p traffic must be very small.

As for Newsgroups if they did shape them just SSL your connection and they can't classify it anyway.

Quite a lot of games, especially mmos, distribute patches via a system thats often identified as P2P traffic and throttled... its no joke trying to download a 400MB game update at ~3-7KB/s or whatever BT decide to throttle it to next... especially as it always seems to be on that one day you have off work - new patch comes out, wrong time of day and your throttled to hell - and was looking forward to playing the game.

Have you reported it as an issue? If its being incorrectly throttled you should report it.

Reporting it rarely helps no matter who the ISP. Pipex who i used to be with a few years back, even throttled http://www.ventrilo.com/ obviously not intentionally but it happened.

I guarantee there will be perfectly legit apps or protocols that get throttled on BT also unintentionally...... Reporting it 9/10 times will get you a script reader reply (no matter who the ISP, but especially the bigger ones).

Traffic management systems (or whatever you wish to call them) are not perfect, never have been, never will be. All they cause is annoyance.

If BT have come up with a way to just throttle the likes of bit torrent with no ports being affected for non-bittorrent traffic and no other app out there feeling affects they would be the first to manage it and i find that highly doubtful.

If the contract wasnt 18 months id take a gamble on Infinity for my business (faster uprates would be nice) but without knowing if the transfer speed may end up slower on say an FTP server configured to a high port number (which is essential for my firm), than what runs now, i wont be risking it yet.
(better the devil you know )

EDIT: I still say well done to them though if all the new allowances and bandwidth monitor ends up being true, its a good step forward.

Edited by deleted (Sun 22-Aug-10 19:55:18)

Sure I hear you, scripted responses are a pain but I'd say its worth reporting and keep reporting all the same, if no-one reports it and just lives with it there is no chance it will ever get fixed.

If reported at least there is a chance that it will get fixed as slim as that maybe

Edited by deleted (Sun 22-Aug-10 20:20:20)

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

Sure I hear you, scripted responses are a pain but I'd say its worth reporting and keep reporting all the same, if no-one reports it and just lives with it there is no chance it will ever get fixed.

If reported at least there is a chance that it will get fixed as slim as that maybe

I agree on reporting it, though i think it will be a wasted phone call, letter or personal time.

Its a shame BTs FUP isnt clearer and more precise on what will be throttled, if it were id get atleast one line enabled with fibre for the business.

At the moment if it turned out it crippled the work FTP server it would probably kill my business within days. Customer submitted designs in cad and large 10+Megapixel image files, which sometimes have to be modified and sent back to the client for approval simply couldnt be done if the FTP suddenly crawled to kilobit speeds both on the up and down load.

Id like to think FTP traffic doesnt get throttled (many businesses still rely on FTP) but im not in any hurry to be the guinea pig.

Id ring and ask BT but i have more faith leaping into a burning building than what SOME of their support would tell me . Ill hang back for now, FTTC is still pretty new, as it becomes more widespread im sure we will hear all the positives and negatives on BTs own offering and other ISPs offerings.

If BTs product does genuiningly only throttle the likes of bit torrent and not other internet traffic, it may turn out to be ideal for my business at a competitive price point. I will be keeping an eye out to see if these announcements made come true and also what others think of the service. Ill probably end up finding out if anything gets throttled from other businesses i deal with, if a few have no issues sending their files via FTP when we do business then ill probably sign up

Personally id like ofcom to step in and make it compulsory that every internet provider or service clearly advertises any type of traffic tinkering they do in detail. Plusnet seem to do this, so theres no reason others cant, especially BT as (unless im wrong) they own Plusnet.

I mean come on its 2010 either make ISPs fess up to what tinkering they intend to do in detail or if they refuse ban silly traffic shaping etc altogether and enforce net neutrality for them all. We are the paying customer, we deserve to know what we get or dont get for our money.

In reply to a post by CARPETBURN:

Personally id like ofcom to step in and make it compulsory that every internet provider or service clearly advertises any type of traffic tinkering they do in detail. Plusnet seem to do this, so theres no reason others cant, especially BT as (unless im wrong) they own Plusnet.

I mean come on its 2010 either make ISPs fess up to what tinkering they intend to do in detail or if they refuse ban silly traffic shaping etc altogether and enforce net neutrality for them all. We are the paying customer, we deserve to know what we get or dont get for our money.

Well said.

BT do indeed own Plusnet. The possibly apocryphal story is they bought it to get hold of the well-developed Ellacoya traffic management technology and expertise.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by CARPETBURN:

Personally id like ofcom to step in and make it compulsory that every internet provider or service clearly advertises any type of traffic tinkering they do in detail. Plusnet seem to do this, so theres no reason others cant, especially BT as (unless im wrong) they own Plusnet.

I mean come on its 2010 either make ISPs fess up to what tinkering they intend to do in detail or if they refuse ban silly traffic shaping etc altogether and enforce net neutrality for them all. We are the paying customer, we deserve to know what we get or dont get for our money.

Well said.

BT do indeed own Plusnet. The possibly apocryphal story is they bought it to get hold of the well-developed Ellacoya traffic management technology and expertise.

Traffic shaping is horrid IMO... HOWEVER if companies like plusnet advertised clearly what gets shaped then people have no cause for complaint.

Plusnet would not suit me personally but in their case if anyone moans about traffic shaping id defend that company, they make it clear enough they will throttle you and what gets throttled, if you still sign up and dont like it thats your own fault.

With others though alot of the time its pot luck as to if a service you choose to use entirely legally gets throttled or not and thats unacceptable no matter who the ISP is.

Kudos to BT for being honest P2P is throttled, but id like more info on what else apart from torrenting and similar that may end up affecting, even more so when you are buying a service specifically for its speed. (or claimed speed).