BT Infinity Lies

Anyone know how to bypass the Indian call centre of BT Broadband so-called support
They just make me really angry now.

I was told before signing up
"Infinity will never slow down"
"The speed we estimate for your line is the speed you will get"

Since having Infinity Installed 04/04/2011, my speeds during the day are good at 35mb,
but slows down every night, sometimes as low as 4mb.
I reported this to BB support,explaining clearly that the connection is fine during the day,
but seems to be suffering from congestion slowdowns in the evenings.

I've been on the phone constantly since opening another fault report on 7th May.

The first few days consisted of BB Support calling me back in the mornings (when the speed is fine),
telling me they changed something and it should be ok now,
followed by me phoning at night when the speed dropped again.
This was escalated a couple of times to the "engineering dept.", still no change.
I soon realised that if I said my speed was fine at the time they asked, nothing was being done.

11th May.
An engineer was booked for my home for the 12th 8am-1pm.
I tell them this was probably a waste of time as the problem only appears at night,
and the line is fine during the day.

12th May.
Engineer calls about noon,very friendly,I explain the problem and we have a nice chat,
line check was good 40/10, no surprise there then.
BB Support phoned me as soon as the engineer had booked off the job,
basically telling me the fault had been fixed as an engineer had been out and found no fault.
I argued that they couldn't say that as the slowdowns only happen at night.
I point out to them I've been using speedtester.bt and ask them to look at the results,
they totally ignored this.

Back on phone that night. The vicious circle starts again, another couple of days of callbacks telling me they changed something, and me calling them at night.

15th May.
Escalated again,I'm told a higher level engineer would visit the exchange and then my home.

16th May.
The same friendly openreach engineer turns up at 9am, I just smile and tell him he knows where it is.
No faults on the line and he explains he has nothing to do with the exchange.
Callback from BB Support around 3pm asking if my speed was fine now.
I had just finished another speedtest (7.3mb) so, no it wasn't.
Another engineer appointment made for 17th

17th May.
No engineer. 2 callbacks, go over the same old story. Engineer booked for 18th.

18th May
No engineer. callback that night,by now I know the script by heart. Engineer booked for 19th.

19th May.
No engineer. Another booking for 20th.

20th May.
Engineer calls, we have a chat, I explain the problem, engineer leaves.
Callback in the afternoon,was told the engineer had contacted BT Wholesale, but no further info was given.
I ask if someone had looked at the speedtest results or could monitoring equipment be fitted as this is happening during peak times,this is totally ignored.
They asked how my speed was, I ask them to call tomorrow after I log the usual slowdowns with speedtester.

Still no callback, seems we start this all over again.

If you are getting slow speed showing on the BT speed tester, then start copy/pasting them here, as far as the end of the upstream speed result. We don't need the verbiage below that.

A few of those may get a BT rep on here jumping in as they won't want that sort of thing happening.

Just a thought though. If you are using it wirelessly, make sure you check it isn't that which is getting screwed in the evenings. Only wired tests are really valid.

Anyone know how to bypass the Indian call centre of BT Broadband so-called support
They just make me really angry now.

Yes. Send a polite e-mail to the "Big Chief"'s office with a summary of your problem. You will receive an acknowledgement within 24 hours and your issue will then be monitored from a very high level until such time as it is resolved. Before doing this, however, ensure that you have documented (and ticked off all the boxes) of the standard support "service" and whatever you do, do not exaggerate / "enhance" things no matter how annoying or frustrating it is to you.

I always run the tests wired as the modem and hub are on my desk.
Nothing else is connected during the tests.
Although first time posting I've been using thinkbroadband for a few years.
Not sure about formats on here so I'll try this.

[IMG]http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z102/ninjazxr/tem...[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z102/ninjazxr/tem...[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z102/ninjazxr/tem...[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z102/ninjazxr/tem...[/IMG]

Redo the last scatter plot with just TIME and speed - that plot does not show enough detail.


Also, if you can, do a BT speedtest every 60 minutes (or just over) for two days and put those of a Time vv. Speed scatter plot.

Seems typical for bt & it's overseas call centre with people that hardly understand you, it's bad enough ringing bt about your phone /billing issues,why did they send out engineers??? they are clueless it would seem, and some in bt will know what the issue is, pointless having a fast connection if bt cannot support that speed 24/7

In reply to a post by MHC:

Redo the last scatter plot with just TIME and speed - that plot does not show enough detail.

It's just a bog-standard thinkbroadband graph of tbb speed test results. I don't think it can be tailored. I suppose he could build such a graph himself from the raw results, or just post them, but there are rather a lot.

What is noticeable is the 5Mbps or lower upstream there, compared to the BT results. Lots of questions raised by the downstream scatter.

Do you do P2P in the evenings? BT certainly don't like that.

But the speed tests look to me like simple congestion or overall traffic management, which surprises me as I reckon these days the speed test is arranged to bypass those influences.

I never use p2p, there is nothing using my connection when speedtests are done.
Don't know about scatter plots thats just from this site.
My upload speed never changes, always around 8000,
don't know why it always shows low when tested here on thinkbroadband.

Just in case anyone needs more results 18:40 and slowing down
http://www.speedtest.net/results.php?sh=8dafd1fe7cc1...

Edited by deleted (Sun 22-May-11 19:12:26)

In reply to a post by niknar:

I never use p2p, there is nothing using my connection when speedtests are done.
Don't know about scatter plots thats just from this site.
My upload speed never changes, always around 8000,
don't know why it always shows low when tested here on thinkbroadband.

Just in case anyone needs more results 18:40 and slowing down
http://www.speedtest.net/results.php?sh=8dafd1fe7cc1...

Your upload does slow down, as per the second BT test in this post.

Thinkbroadband tests do seem to be suspect for some people, nobody has yet found an explanation. They have always been fine for me.

Only other thought is to wonder where you are, and whether Zen use WBC or WBMC, as that can make a difference.

Trust you,
Your right, I should have said upload rarely slows,
i've only seen it slow twice in over 50 BT speedtests,
the other time it slowed my download speed was 35641,so not worth bothering about.

On WBC the ISP has to pick up their user traffic at 20 nodes scattered around the country, and the node yours goes to depends on your exchange, and in a few cases even the MSAN within the exchange.

That makes calculating the necessary capacity to rent from BT at each node rather difficult for the ISP, so congestion can occur there.

On WBMC normally, (perhaps always), the ISP picks up the traffic at a single node. That is easier for them to manage as they have a reasonable idea of their overall peak demand, but I assume there are other drawbacks.

Which is why I raised the question in my previous post, as I don't know which method Zen use.

There could of course be simple busy-time congestion on the BT side of things at your exchange.

My ISP is BT and I am on the Glasgow Halfway exchange.
I always felt this problem was down to congestion.
But to lose over 90% of my speed with FTTC seems a bit ridiculous.

I was on the phone again last night with BT India.
The "supervisor" was running a line check and apologised for it taking so long because my connection was so slow.
I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
3090 Kbps

0 Kbps 38717 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

> Download speedachieved during the test was - 3090 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 12000-38717 Kbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is -38717 Kbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
8219 Kbps

0 Kbps 10000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8219 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10000 Kbp

I realise nobody can help with this but at least I get it off my chest.

you are going to get nowhere with BT customer service, you need to email ian livingston, hes very good and always gets back to you, stick to the facts post what you know and I believe something will be done.

[email protected]

Thanks for that, looks as if that's my only option.
Fed up banging my head off the brick wall at the BT end of things.

Hi niknar

I have just seen your post in relation to the speeds that you are receiving with your BT Infinity broadband service, I would like to take a look into this and run some further checks so I can see if there are any issues with the service. If you drop me your details via http://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950 I will look into this.

Regards David

Why? The OP has not even raised a formal complaint yet. Once that is done and investigated fully is when it should be escalated.

I just do not know why people like you suggest going so far up the chain rather than using processes that are already in place.

And if you believe he actually reads and acts on most of those emails - you are extremely naive.

Sorry, a couple of posts ago I threw a wobbly and decided you were on Zen . 'Doh!

I believe BT Infinity goes via a system no-one else uses, in the same way as their ADSL Max used Central Pluses not the normal Centrals. Can't help otherwise.

I see BT_Care have reappeared, that's good.

Cheers for that.
I'll give BT_Care a go and see if anything comes from that.
I can't understand why it's so difficult to get past BT broadband support and speak to someone higher up the chain.

In reply to a post by niknar:

I can't understand why it's so difficult to get past BT broadband support and speak to someone higher up the chain.

Because the whole of the "training" and scripted response process is designed to prevent you getting any higher. People who know things are expensive.

He did for me so...

Sorry for suggest such a thing.

Edited by lockyatlrg (Mon 23-May-11 18:09:16)

In reply to a post by MHC:

I just do not know why people like you suggest going so far up the chain rather than using processes that are already in place.

...because sometimes it is the only way to make progress. I used this route when Ben Verwaayen was CEO, this was after 3 months of trying with BT c/s. (They messed up my RTD).

And if you believe he actually reads and acts on most of those emails - you are extremely naive.

It may or may not be the CEO himself (but the email I received suggested that it was). It is possible that a secretary deals with his email though.

At the end of the day the CEO is responsible for the running of the company and while unfortunately most companies these days seem to put their shareholders first, the main responsibility is that the product sells and keeps selling. It is in the CEO's best interest to make sure the customer is happy and if the normal process to ensure this isn't working then I would expect any responsible CEO to take a direct hand.

>>unfortunately most companies these days seem to put their shareholders first

I thought that all companies had a legal responsibility to put their shareholders first. After all, it's the shareholders money that puts the thing on the road. Has something changed?

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

>>unfortunately most companies these days seem to put their shareholders first

I thought that all companies had a legal responsibility to put their shareholders first. After all, it's the shareholders money that puts the thing on the road. Has something changed?

You are absolutely right. It's something that very few people realise.

However, a major factor in safeguarding the shareholders' interest is making sure that customers are happy. The two are not incompatible, just that the poster put it rather badly.

I did read when searching for higher level complaints numbers, that after emailing the ceo, people got a call from the hlc, so it must work. I'll keep my draft email handy.
The point is though you shouldn't have to go to that extreme.
BT need to get customer services sorted out. They treat Infinity and adsl as the same thing.
I was on the phone again tonight, another "high level" engineer booked for tomorrow.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

At the end of the day the CEO is responsible for the running of the company and while unfortunately most companies these days seem to put their shareholders first, the main responsibility is that the product sells and keeps selling. It is in the CEO's best interest to make sure the customer is happy and if the normal process to ensure this isn't working then I would expect any responsible CEO to take a direct hand.

But it is going to remove the possibility of direct access to and action by the CEO's office if people start appealing to there before the official channels have been exhausted.

One now and then could draw attention to a deep-seated problem. A few thousand mis-handled support problems hitting his office on the same day might have an effect. But a few a week just becomes a distraction and will end up with automatic diversion back into the normal support system, though possibly at a senior level.

I'm yet to see a BT customer having a negative outcome from any customer emailing the BT CEO.

As a shareholder, I'm happy with that.

I'm still awaiting a reply from the CEO of TalkTalk I wrote over 18 months ago. I do not have shares in TalkTalk.and TalkTalk lost cutomers according to their recent results...

In reply to a post by TheHorseman:

It may or may not be the CEO himself (but the email I received suggested that it was). It is possible that a secretary deals with his email though.

There is a team who deal with High level Complaints - I have their contact numbers. E-mails addressed as suggested go direct to them (the CEO can access them if he wishes) and they are dealt with as if he has intervened. Those dealing with the issues are mid-level managers (probably a grade higher that those running customer service teams).

I have had a colleague who had an niggly problem and whilst we were at a conference and a group of key industry personnel were on stage he emailed the previous BT CEO and received a semi-personal reply from the CEO within minutes - excellent you may think, but it was obvious that the CEO had not seen the email or responded, as he was sitting on stage in front of a large audience.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I'm yet to see a BT customer having a negative outcome from any customer emailing the BT CEO.

There is the occasional one, but in the very few I recall I got a strong feeling the reason for that may have been at the customer end.

Moreover, I'm sure I have seen some non-BT Broadband customers who have benefitted from emailing him, where the difficulty has been with BTW or OR and the user has no direct relationship with BT. (Though perhaps the phone rental has been BT).

As a shareholder, I'm happy with that.

As I thought I said, or at least implied, it is good business to maintain good customer relations and high satisfaction. The driving force behind that is though, as you pointed out, to promote the ultimate interests of the shareholders. I regard that as perfectly legitimate.

I'm still awaiting a reply from the CEO of TalkTalk I wrote over 18 months ago.

It is in fact amazing that the BT CEO's office is so available and helpful!

I do agree though that a sentiment expressed by another poster is relevant. This availability could easily be abused, which would be a great shame.

In reply to a post by MHC:

He was texting away on his Blackberry hidden under the table. You thought he was looking down at his papers .

In reply to a post by niknar:

The point is though you shouldn't have to go to that extreme.
BT need to get customer services sorted out. They treat Infinity and adsl as the same thing.
I was on the phone again tonight, another "high level" engineer booked for tomorrow.

Indeed you shouldn't, c/s should be able to sort things out but they don't always seem to be capable of doing so. I think if I had a problem with my infinity I would go to BTCare on this board first rather than get on the phone to someone I may or may not be able to understand.

Hmm, A little disturbed at your comments.
When you - whomsoever you are - feel so disappointed at the service you've received, and find yourself repeating the problem details ad nauseum, then you have little faith in the "next" stage. I have found over the years that the threat of "going to the top" or actually doing it works wonders. Your comment about the poster's naivete if he thinks his letter is actually read doesn't stand scrutiny, as I and so many others - after complaining to the top man - get our problem resolved.
Perchance it is the intervention of the ISP Fairy, and not the top person that gets the problem solved?
Cheers, Les.

My thoughts exactly, and my experiences - especially with S*y - show that it pays to go to the top man.

I have sent my details to BTCare, no response as yet.
Another engineer was booked for today 8am-1pm, didn't show, another wasted morning.
Tried calling CS, their really busy and not taking calls. ho-hum

Got through to level 2 CS, after pulling a few teeth I finally got a bit of info.
They tell me that the network team have been running hourly speedtests.
My connection is running "hot" and the speedtests need to be completed so they can pass it on to the complex fault dept.

Does that make any sense to anyone ?

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-May-11 14:23:23)

To contact BT_Care you need to use the email link they give in the profile. If you PM'ed them you will have to wait till one logs in here.

Running "hot" usually refers to the VPs (Virtual Paths) within the exchange, which I think means one or more links within the exchange to the main backhaul are congested. A check you can make is this one, but I don't know how up-to-date it is these days. Also a VP can run hot, but not so badly as to appear on that checker, nor bad enough to cause BT to upgrade it.

Thanks, that explanation seems to make sense to me, even though I'm totally clueless about all this network mumbo jumbo.

CS have just been in touch, and asked me to monitor my speeds and they'll call back tomorrow.
Here's hoping.

and yes, I used the email link for BT_Care.

Nope top man's secretary saends issue to the HIgh Level Complaiunts team who then send issue to certain uk based sites whoi deal and sort issue tell HLC who tell secretary who then tells the customer.

MId Level Managers hahahahhahahahahahahahah

try very experienced GRUNTS

In reply to a post by geordiekris:

Nope top man's secretary saends issue to the HIgh Level Complaiunts team who then send issue to certain uk based sites whoi deal and sort issue tell HLC who tell secretary who then tells the customer.

But the point is the message comes from above rather than below. So it is highly probable more effort goes into solving the customer's problem, as the result is returned through the same channel.

If the customer then replies showing that the issue remains, even in BT there could be a bit of trouble for the ones who said it was fixed.

Just a quick update.
BT_Care pm'ed and have confirmed that this was escalated and is still with BT Wholesale.
It's nice to get a bit of info, at least I know somethings being done.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

>>unfortunately most companies these days seem to put their shareholders first

I thought that all companies had a legal responsibility to put their shareholders first. After all, it's the shareholders money that puts the thing on the road. Has something changed?

You are absolutely right. It's something that very few people realise.

However, a major factor in safeguarding the shareholders' interest is making sure that customers are happy. The two are not incompatible, just that the poster put it rather badly.

Well theoretically keeping the customers happy is a prerequisite to keeping the shareholders happy. Only stupid CEOs and nationalised industries think it's an either/or situation

It's Groundhog Day with CS

CS call on 27th, ask how my speed is
I tell them that this was supposed to have been passed to BT Wholesale days ago.
I'm told they made changes at the exchange, oh really, well nothings changed here.
They proceed to book an engineer.
I tell them not to send an engineer to my home as this was a waste of time.
I'm told that this was a "high level engineer" who would deal with the exchange then visit my home.

It came as no surprise when a normal openreach engineer turned up next morning.

CS call back to find out how my speed was, as an engineer had been out.
I tell them the engineer couldn't help with this as there's no problem here, and he has no access to the fibre equipment.
They said that the engineer was a "high level engineer" and visited the exchange then my home.
Needless to say I lost the plot there.
They proceeded to book another engineer despite me saying not to bother.

I sent an e-mail straight after that call last night, complaining about this CS farce.
I got a nice surprise when I got an e-mail and call from HLC earlier today.

Now maybe at last things will move on.

In reply to a post by niknar:

I sent an e-mail straight after that call last night, complaining about this CS farce.
I got a nice surprise when I got an e-mail and call from HLC earlier today.

Now maybe at last things will move on.

Hopefully they will, I had to resort to HLC when BT messed up my RTD from Bulldog a few years ago (it was just before BD got taken over by Tiscali).

Ain't no such thang as a normal Openreach engineer.

Finally looks like this is sorted,
after trying a change of port that didn't help, on 16th June Wholesale upgraded equipment at exchange.
I don't know what they changed but it did the trick.
Big sigh of relief, I can now get on with life

In reply to a post by niknar:

Finally looks like this is sorted,
after trying a change of port that didn't help, on 16th June Wholesale upgraded equipment at exchange.
I don't know what they changed but it did the trick.
Big sigh of relief, I can now get on with life

Well done with your perseverance. But it really shouldn't have taken them so long and wasted so many hours of your time and that of the nice friendly but powerless engineers. Still I am sure they enjoyed their tea and biccies