IP Profile Reset ?

Hi , basicly we had a line fault which caused DLM to lower the speed , previously it was 77.43 (i think) now it is 42.48 .
Openreach have just been and fixed the line issue , but when i asked about profile reset he said he cannot do it as it was reported as a line fault , if it was reported as slow speed fault he could have got it reset
What would be the best course of action to get the ip profile reset ?

Thanks

It sounds as though banding has been applied, reducing the connection speed. That will be what needs removing.

IP Profile is calculated from the connection speed. It doesn't regulate it.

What a silly rule though.

if errors are low enough I think DLM will fix itself but will take time, maybe 4 weeks or more. I dont think you can get DLM reset without another engineer.

As RobertoS said, the ip profile doesnt need resetting, it updates everytime you start a new PPP session, ip profile doesnt control your sync speed, the sync speed controls the ip profile.

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 10-Jan-13 18:12:37)

Ok thanks for the info , i thought the DLM worked by increasing the SNR to compensate all the noise on the line

Yea Roberto the openreach guy said exactly the same

I first noticed the issue around the 19th of december and the ip profile dropped to around 53 but the line noise dissapeared after a few days so i restarted modem and router which increased ip profile to around 70 .

Then around 10 days ago its been constantly disconecting every few hours untill tuesday this week when it was every 30/40 seconds , router log shows alot of CCA failure > 1 second whatever that means ?

Do you think its worth calling them or should i wait and hope DLM fixes it ?

In reply to a post by Bapteeed:

Do you think its worth calling them or should i wait and hope DLM fixes it ?

Depends whether or not you already suffer from high blood pressure.

If you do, I advise against asking them.

If you don't, I advise against asking them.

(There is no typo there).

I think BT Infinity users here are best placed to give real advice, but be prepared to be asked to change your filters etc. etc. if you call them. As for talking about banding ....

On the other hand - you could always now log a low speed fault!

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 10-Jan-13 20:42:02)

lol good point , a bit like when i called about the voice fault

I guess i could log a low speed fault but would they even do anything ? Its more the latency rather than speed , seems to have doubled where the speed is roughly halfed

The latency increase will probably be down to interleaving being turned on, at quite a high level, because of the errors the fault generated. So that needs a reset as well, though it may be part of the same process - I don't know.

Yea a very high level it seems ,but it has dropped by a few ms in the past few hours , speed has increased slightly aswell which is strange as its not disconnected

Post deleted by Chrysalis

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 11-Jan-13 07:50:04)

speed has increased slightly as well which is strange as its not disconnected

What can happen is that the modem disconnects/reconnects with the cabinet very quickly, but that the pppoe connection between router and exchange is not broken. Unless you can see the (unlocked) modem stats, you would not see the reconnection.

You may find that if you disconnect/reconnect the router, you will get a little more speed still. That will force a pppoe reconnect, which in turn will match your IP/BRAS profile speed (at the exchange) to the current cabinet/modem connection speed.

I did try to unlock the modem but after i browse to the firmware file it seems to freeze up and do nothing

Yea im going to wait a few days before i restart it , it did reconnect/disconnect quickly a few times before the fault was fixed , router logs showed CCA failure > 1 second several times , not been able to find out what that means ?

In reply to a post by Bapteeed:

Ok thanks for the info , i thought the DLM worked by increasing the SNR to compensate all the noise on the line

That may not be the case with FTTC/VDSL.
I'm able to read the connection data from my Huawei modem and during the Christmas break (following a few disconnections) my connection speed dropped to low 50's (from maximum).
I assumed DLM was at work (following disconnections - most likely due to the excessive number of external Christmas lights around here.
However; my SNR was still at 6dB (well; 6.1) on downstream and well over 15dB on upstream (although upstream was connected at 20Mbps, so it's understandable the SNR was showing well above 6dB).

After a couple of manual reboots (just to check if the noise conditions had cleared) the connection speed stayed about the same (if anything it dropped by a few Mbps).

So I left well alone to see if DLM would fix it (or remove what it broke).
After 5 days and a few hours, the connection dropped and came back on again.
Remembering I'd been connected for months on end at full speed, I guessed maybe DLM had removed (or reduced) whatever "fix" it had applied.

Sure enough, my connection speed had jumped by around 25Mbps, and the SNR was still at 6dB.
Still not at max connection speed, but only a couple of Mbps away from it (so I'm none too worried at this stage).

So clearly BT/Openreach have a DLM which has methods (other than just messing up your SNR) to reduce connection speed and improve stability, which are far more successful than the rubbish DLM we had with ADSL.
It also looks like this DLM is a lot more forgiving and much happier to give you back your missing speed.

I'm leaving well alone again (currently at 4 days 16 hours since the DLM trigged resync, mentioned above) so maybe (just maybe) DLM will tweak my connection a little more and the speed will gradually creep back up by a few Mbps.

In reply to a post by Bapteeed:

Do you think its worth calling them or should i wait and hope DLM fixes it ?

I'd be tempted to sit and wait out DLM.
Leave well alone.
No resyncs, no rebooting the HomeHub, no clicking on 'disconnect' on the HH.
Just leave it alone and wait out the 5+ days.

Maybe give it six (it seems things tend to happen at midnight or midday - so wait out one midnight and one midday after the HH has showed a solid 5 day connection) before getting back onto BT - mainly as they'll only have you disconnecting & plugging in/out, which may well restart the DLM timers.

Thanks for the info Ade sounds exactly the same as my problem i guess its different levels of interleaving that gets applied rather than the SNR being changed

It has stayed connected since the engineer left so ill take your advice and leave it , hope it fixes the ping and upload speed soon though

I spent a lot of yesterday doing revisions to my website, particularly re FTTC DLM and IP Profiles. The stuff I put up soon after FTTC was introduced was way short of what we know now.

Have a look at the Openreach DLM page.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 12-Jan-13 00:42:55)

Well that [banding] would certainly fit what I've seen over the last week or so.
Maybe the next 24 hours will show whether my connection had either one level of a variable banding, or also had a level of interleaving set up.
Basically I started off (having had 80Mbps almost since Infinity2 was released) at full speed and nothing less than that, to suddenly having around 28Mbps lopped off my connection speed sometime during mid-December.
Then five (and a bit) days later, with a solid connection, around 25Mbps of that was restored (giving me a sync of 77539kbps with an attainable rate of 77984kbps).

I wonder if the only minor difference between connection speed and attainable rate is a symptom of banding?
Since day one my attainable rate has been something like 5Mbps above my connection speed (indicating my line had a reasonable amount of headroom, over and above full speed) but since banding appeared to have been applied the attainable rate has been within maybe 400kbps of my connection speed.
So I'm guessing (and it is a guess) the current level of banding on my line has a max sync of 77984kbps (a fair assumption - why else would my attainable rate be an exact multiple of 32 (in fact 32 * 2437) , whereas my connection speed is 32 * 2423.09375).

I've now had another 4 days 21 hours solid connection - hopefully DLM hasn't finished trying to put my connection back to where it started and there's still a small amount of banding to be removed (or maybe not... in 4 days 21 hours I've had a total of 1381 FEC errors, but zero CRC errors - who knows what Openreach deem to be an acceptable error rate, but 11.8 FEC errors an hour doesn't seem that high to me - given my old ADSL2+ connection would have been in the millions in five days).

Unfortunately I didn't bother to check to see if my line had FEC errors before (which would have shown if I've had interleaving since day 1, or whether interleaving has recently been applied).

I will report back as to whether my speed increases (as the level of banding is reduced), but I wonder if interleaving is automatically switched off (once applied) or whether it's like it used to be on ADSL (i.e. once it's on, you're stuck with it for all eternity).

That bit about the division by 32 is interesting.

Interleaving - I meant to have in there that the consensus so far is that drops sync by about 10% compard to Fast Path, but Max Attainable isn't affected. Your figures don't tie in with that, which is either "worth knowing" for us all, or "odd" for you.

that sounds bizarre.

if you still only had a 6db margin then the line has no extra buffer so in theory should be no more stable.

my theories are either it was a dlm applied to manage crosstalk by reducing the signal power hence lower sync with same snrm. It then maybe decided later the older setting was better so reverted the change? or simply you had temporary crosstalk or fault and it cleared up. Although the latter wouldnt trigger an automatic resync.

is odd what you described.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I spent a lot of yesterday doing revisions to my website, particularly re FTTC DLM and IP Profiles. The stuff I put up soon after FTTC was introduced was way short of what we know now.

Have a look at the Openreach DLM page.

Your link above needs revision because it misleads people into thinking that Openreach are in charge of DLM, which is not the case as BT Wholesale is.

It's all a little odd...

1. The division by 32 bit (from attainable rate) and ending up with a whole number could just be the way the Openreach modem calculates the rate. Alternatively it could be registering the banding cap applied by DLM. Or it could just be a coincidence.

2. The 10% speed drop (caused by interleaving) could be showing on my connection. Although not obvious, my current sync is around 10% below my old attainable rate (which was around 83-85Mbps - ish), so maybe interleaving is causing my slightly lower than maximum sync? But wouldn't the max attainable rate be the max figure ignoring any loss due to interleaving?

3. Chrissy mentioned maybe a DLM applied power drop (which also occurred to me, when I first noticed a low 50s sync, whilst the SNR was still at 6dB). I'd have thought a sync cap, due to banding alone, would be reflected by a massive rise in SNR (giving the false impression the loss of speed was due to an SNR increase) and I'd seriously doubt a line, which has an upstream sync of 20Mbps (with an upstream SNR of 15dB) couldn't manage more than 50ish downstream, at maximum power, at 6dB SNR.

It does look like DLM has applied at least two "fixes";
1. Switched on interleaving (but it may have been on anyway, as Speedtest.net pings are still around 5-10ms, to London & south Midlands servers, which is where they've always been).
2. Either applied banding (to cap downstream sync) or reduced transmission power (to limit downstream sync by way of the standard 6dB margin).

At least we don't seem to have the excessive (and frankly annoying - because it's next to impossible to have undone) ADSL DLM overkill first step of banging the margin straight up to 15dB (OK; not strictly "straight up to 15dB", more like up froim 6 to 15dB in a matter of a few resyncs).

Space to be watched; I think

Edited by adebov (Sat 12-Jan-13 11:04:05)

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Your link above needs revision because it misleads people into thinking that Openreach are in charge of DLM, which is not the case as BT Wholesale is.

They can't be as the FTTC DLM works for Sky and TalkTalk users who don't have anything to do with Wholesale.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I spent a lot of yesterday doing revisions to my website, particularly re FTTC DLM and IP Profiles. The stuff I put up soon after FTTC was introduced was way short of what we know now.

Have a look at the Openreach DLM page.

Your link above needs revision because it misleads people into thinking that Openreach are in charge of DLM, which is not the case as BT Wholesale is.

I'm afraid you are wrong there Mr.Crowther. The OP is on FTTC and the Openreach DLM, controlled by Openreach, is the one controlling the line. The BT Wholesale DLM is involved, but only to the extent of setting the IP Profile when notified of the sync speed by the OR one.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The BT Wholesale DLM is involved, but only to the extent of setting the IP Profile when notified of the sync speed by the OR one.

and we already know that Sky FTTC systems know the sync speed as they return it to the user in the DHCP packet - and Sky doesn't use BT Wholesale's system or BT's IP Profiles - but probably have their own equivalent.

Exactly .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I spent a lot of yesterday doing revisions to my website, particularly re FTTC DLM and IP Profiles. The stuff I put up soon after FTTC was introduced was way short of what we know now.

Have a look at the Openreach DLM page.

Your link above needs revision because it misleads people into thinking that Openreach are in charge of DLM, which is not the case as BT Wholesale is.

I'm afraid you are wrong there Mr.Crowther. The OP is on FTTC and the Openreach DLM, controlled by Openreach, is the one controlling the line. The BT Wholesale DLM is involved, but only to the extent of setting the IP Profile when notified of the sync speed by the OR one.

I think you better check with BT Operate, because they say different.

Note: I was not talking about the OP, I was talking about your (Not so good) website, please in future read the post before posting your reply. If you are unable to understand English I am sure I can refer you to some very good English lessons.

Edited by robertcrowther (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:12:49)

are you ratty from bt care forum? as he/she was spreading the same rubbish on that site also.

DLM is openreach on FTTC. They manage the cabinet equipment not BTw.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

are you ratty from bt care forum? as he/she was spreading the same rubbish on that site also.

DLM is openreach on FTTC. They manage the cabinet equipment not BTw.

No I'm not Ratty, I don't work for BT, but I do know a lot of people who do (approx 100 people), due to the fact I live about 200 meters from one of BT's major sites.

So all these people who work for BT are wrong are they?

Edited by robertcrowther (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:24:15)

of course the downside of capping the power is it stops people retweaking the snrm back down, eg. in the adsl max days one could tweak the modem and "undo DLM"

cant do that on a power cutback, I do wonder if BT cut back power on my line as well, as I was initially 110mbit attainable and went down to 90 and then again to 73, seems way too excessive for normal crosstalk, I also found a previous post by adsl24 on this forum where they noticed the same thing and they suspected power cut back from the cabinet as well.

If openreach are doing power cutback, I would expect putting up with the crosstalk is better than losing 20-30mbit of sync due to power cutback.

So Mr. Crowther, you are saying that BT Wholesale have direct control of the operating characteristics of the Openreach GEA product and can technically alter the service provided to other GEA users - specifically Sky and TalkTalk?

A link to any BT Operate document saying this would be useful, to verify your apparently unsubstantiated claims.

The following extract from the BT Group website seems relevant, particularly the final paragaph and importantly the final sentence:-

About Openreach

In Great Britain Openreach provides services over the �local loop� network (also referred to as the �local access network� and the �last mile�), a critical national asset that comprises the copper and fibre connections between telephone exchanges and consumer and business premises. Openreach is also responsible for delivering the roll-out of our fibre broadband network. In addition to delivering local loop services, we provide backhaul services that connect exchanges to communications providers� networks.

Our business is subject to regulation that requires us to sell services to all CPs on an open and equal basis, meaning that external CPs can buy services from us on the same terms as BT�s lines of business. To make this work effectively Openreach�s operational, engineering and systems capabilities are separate from the rest of BT.

My source for the DLM information is SIN 498, Section 2.2.1. Most of my information about BT Group services comes from similar documents.
_{Edit - typo. Edit 2 - for clarity I have added the words "for the DLM information".}

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:48:46)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

So Mr. Crowther, you are saying that BT Wholesale have direct control of the operating characteristics of the Openreach GEA product and can technically alter the service provided to other GEA users - specifically Sky and TalkTalk?

A link to any BT Operate document saying this would be useful, to verify your apparently unsubstantiated claims.

The following extract from the BT Group website seems relevant, particularly the final paragaph and importantly the final sentence:-

About Openreach

In Great Britain Openreach provides services over the �local loop� network (also referred to as the �local access network� and the �last mile�), a critical national asset that comprises the copper and fibre connections between telephone exchanges and consumer and business premises. Openreach is also responsible for delivering the roll-out of our fibre broadband network. In addition to delivering local loop services, we provide backhaul services that connect exchanges to communications providers� networks.

Our business is subject to regulation that requires us to sell services to all CPs on an open and equal basis, meaning that external CPs can buy services from us on the same terms as BT�s lines of business. To make this work effectively Openreach�s operational, engineering and systems capabilities are separate from the rest of BT.

My source for the DLM information is SIN 498, Section 2.2.1. Most of my information about BT Group services comes from similar documents.
_{Edit - typo. Edit 2 - for clarity I have added the words "for the DLM information".}

No wonder your knowledge is very limited.

If you look at this website then see the difference to what level of information you provide: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...

Edited by robertcrowther (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:57:28)

The noise margin on FTTC doesn't control the speed in the way it does on BT Wholesale DLMs.

It seems to work similarly to the O2/Be one, where when they provide an 8Mbps or 12Mbps ADSL2+ product on a line capable of (say) 18Mbps if uncapped, the normal sync-time noise margin is still 6dB. As opposed to when the same line re-syncs at a lower speed still due to a noise event, where on cessation of the noise but before a manual reconnection the noise margin can end up high, as expected.

I don't always agree with RobertoS but in this case he is correct

Openreach are in charge of DLM for the VDSL2 services as they own and run the active VDSL hardware, providers such as TalkTalk, BT Wholesale and Sky are given three DLM optoins they can pick from, but beyond that Openreach is in control.

For ADSL/ADSL2+ services from BT Wholesale then obviously BT Wholesale is in charge, and exposes more options to providers such as Plusnet.

The reason Plusnet talk about BT Wholesale supplying details of the FTTC service is because Plusnet buy the FTTC service from BT Wholesale rather than direct from Openreach.

That page is also out of date in a number of areas.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The reason Plusnet talk about BT Wholesale supplying details of the FTTC service is because Plusnet buy the FTTC service from BT Wholesale rather than direct from Openreach.

That page is also out of date in a number of areas.

I know it's out of date, but I was showing the difference between the level of information shown and not the content.

And your point is?

That site gives lots of ADSL2+ info and fails with FTTC in a few places. How does relate to who controls the DLM debate?

You have said RobertoS was giving wrong information, if you were to furnish him with documents explaining what was wrong I am sure he would read, digest and fix any problems.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

I don't always agree with RobertoS but in this case he is correct

Openreach are in charge of DLM for the VDSL2 services as they own and run the active VDSL hardware, providers such as TalkTalk, BT Wholesale and Sky are given three DLM optoins they can pick from, but beyond that Openreach is in control.

For ADSL/ADSL2+ services from BT Wholesale then obviously BT Wholesale is in charge, and exposes more options to providers such as Plusnet.

Even though it's on the Openreach network, Openreach still have to go through BT Wholesale in order to reset the DLM, therefore BT Wholesale control it. That is what I have been told by senior management in BT Operate.

So what you have been told contradicts documentation that the BT Group is required by Ofcom to publish? i.e. the various SIN/STIN document sytems?

The FTTC cabinets are owned by Openreach, Openreach defines how they should operate.

Who openreach subcontract to sit at a monitoring desk is a different matter, and this like the installation of FTTC may be a Kelly engineer or another company or an Openreach one. So Openreach may have some contracts with BT Wholesale for site interlink capacity to let them remotely admin their own hardware.

Power control is more sensitive with VDSL2 due to the crosstalk issues

In the days when baseband SDSL was slightly more common, there was the odd issue with someone running their hardware outside the ANFP rules as they could do so.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Even though it's on the Openreach network, Openreach still have to go through BT Wholesale in order to reset the DLM, therefore BT Wholesale control it. That is what I have been told by senior management in BT Operate.

It's possible there is confusion there.

I'd be surprised if that is correct, but what is certainly true is what MrSaffron has said, Plusnet and any other ISP other than Sky and Talk buy FTTC from BT Wholesale. So if the ISP wants a DLM reset it is BT Wholesale they have to go through, and BT Wholesale then request it from Openreach.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

No wonder your knowledge is very limited.

If you look at this website then see the difference to what level of information you provide: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...

Sorry, I didn't see this link earlier as you edited it in whilst I was doing something else.

As has been said, that page is quite badly out of date. For example:-

7. Blip Logic

20CN products only

Some customers have very stable lines, but for one reason or another can occasionally see a one-off sync rate at a lower speed. The use of 'Blip logic' means if a stable line, (one that hasn't seen a IP profile decrease in the last 14 days), experiences a short drop in sync rate and then goes straight back up again, it won't result in a wait for the IP profile to catch up, although a second drop would lower the IP profile.

ceased to be true when the 3-day wait for IP Profile updates was changed. The Blip Logic code was dropped.

My statement on my website about this arises directly from a Plusnet rep who was asked on these forums at the time. Sadly I have no link to that post and it has been archived.

Well this guy may (or may not) be "Ratty" from the BT Care forums, but you have to admit the posting style, the odd dig (about Bob's website being "not so good") and the ridiculous insults "If you are unable to understand English I am sure I can refer you to some very good English lessons" are very similar the the posts by this "Ratty" person. As is the tendency to discount and rubbish other people's posts (claims & facts, etc.) without ever posting links or documents supporting the "Ratty" point of view.

The next plan of attack (by "Ratty") would be to move away from his claims (as he never substantiates them) and move on to picking holes in the punctuation, spelling and grammar of the posts he's trying to rubbish.
We shall see which direction this thread takes

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

are you ratty from bt care forum?

Well he's been registered here for a while (2004) so it's unlikely he's a refugee from the BT Care forum who's registered here, specifically to continue his/her campaign.
Having said that he's posted only 48 times since 2004 and 20 of those posts have been in the BT Broadband board (here) and all of those in the last three weeks (so if he's been around for 8+ years; he's been very quiet for most of that time - which is odd, considering he appears to have a great deal of knowledge to impart).
It's very uncommon for someone who knows more than Andrew and Bob to have been hanging around here for over eight years without really joining in and passing on some of that knowledge!

We need to try and keep the thread on topic, so PM'ing rather than posting a highly amusing sequence of quotes from it.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

If you look at this website then see the difference to what level of information you provide: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...

which states:

1. Broadband Products
Our broadband is supplied over the BT Wholesale network.

which may be true for PN, but not for FTTC suppliers in general.

It seems you are mistakenly extrapolating PN's situation to all other FTTC suppliers.

Also, there is no need to be rude, as you have been, when you disagree with others' opinions. This is a Forum, after all.

The BT Openreach DSLAM acts as an Intermediate Agent to insert the sync speed and certain other data into DHCP Option 82 (Sky) or a PPPoE Vendor Specific tag (just about everyone else) - see SIN 498 section 2.1.7 and TR-101 section 3.9 and appendices C and D.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Jan-13 00:21:55)

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

I don't work for BT, but I do know a lot of people who do (approx 100 people), due to the fact I live about 200 meters from one of BT's major sites.

So all these people who work for BT are wrong are they?

Quite possibly.
I'd no more expect people who "work for BT" to have in depth technical knowledge (or be able to comprehend that knowledge), than I'd expect people who make the PCBs to know about targeting algorithms of laser guided missiles.

I'd certainly not trust third-hand (possibly even more) Chinese whispers coming from someone who knows someone who works for the company designing these systems.
For all we know, these BT people you "know" could be cable jointers, trench diggers, xDSL installation "engineers", or highly qualified designers of the very systems we're discussing.
Since you still refuse to tell us why you're qualified to make the claims you do, we have to assume the worst (that the BT people you know are people who paint cabinets green).

Oddly enough; this "Ratty" guy also claims to know loads of people who work for BT

In reply to a post by adebov:

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

I don't work for BT, but I do know a lot of people who do (approx 100 people), due to the fact I live about 200 meters from one of BT's major sites.

So all these people who work for BT are wrong are they?

Quite possibly.
I'd no more expect people who "work for BT" to have in depth technical knowledge (or be able to comprehend that knowledge), than I'd expect people who make the PCBs to know about targeting algorithms of laser guided missiles.

I'd certainly not trust third-hand (possibly even more) Chinese whispers coming from someone who knows someone who works for the company designing these systems.
For all we know, these BT people you "know" could be cable jointers, trench diggers, xDSL installation "engineers", or highly qualified designers of the very systems we're discussing.
Since you still refuse to tell us why you're qualified to make the claims you do, we have to assume the worst (that the BT people you know are people who paint cabinets green).

Oddly enough; this "Ratty" guy also claims to know loads of people who work for BT

From what I have been told, Ratty is senior management in BT

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

From what I have been told, Ratty is senior management in BT

But like you've said; there's no way of knowing you can trust what people have said.
For example; I could tell you I'm a senior captain with British Airways, and you'd have no way of knowing if it's true (which it isn't, BTW).

This Ratty bloke certainly doesn't post like he's in a senior management position (he certainly doesn't know how to talk to people).
And being a senior manager for BT doesn't necessarily qualify him to make the claims he does (my senior managers have zero understanding of the technical aspects of my job).

EDIT: Plus there's a flaw in the BT forums... How can a senior BT manager be allowed to post as a member of the public, without having to state his "interest"?
Do BT really allow their senior managers to go around their forums making wild claims and insulting BT customers? This guy should be reprimanded by his managers.

Edited by adebov (Sun 13-Jan-13 13:27:03)

In reply to a post by adebov:

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

From what I have been told, Ratty is senior management in BT

But like you've said; there's no way of knowing you can trust what people have said.
For example; I could tell you I'm a senior captain with British Airways, and you'd have no way of knowing if it's true (which it isn't, BTW).

This Ratty bloke certainly doesn't post like he's in a senior management position (he certainly doesn't know how to talk to people).
And being a senior manager for BT doesn't necessarily qualify him to make the claims he does (my senior managers have zero understanding of the technical aspects of my job).

I don't take the word of people on the internet, but I do take the word of people I know in real life and they have confirmed to me who he is.

If you read his posts you will note that he responds to what people say, ie. If someone throws an insult he throws it back. People need to understand that if you throw insults to people you should expect it back. As for not sounding like a senior manager, maybe that's why he has just a normal user name and not a BT one, so that way he can post as a customer would.

Throwing insults back is not the way to conduct yourself on an online forum, it is to report those persistently doing this and moderators can then investigate.

If a senior manager of any company is seen to be throwing back insults to customers then it would result in more senior management taking measures.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If a senior manager of any company is seen to be throwing back insults to customers then it would result in more senior management taking measures.

Exactly my point.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Throwing insults back is not the way to conduct yourself on an online forum, it is to report those persistently doing this and moderators can then investigate.

If a senior manager of any company is seen to be throwing back insults to customers then it would result in more senior management taking measures.

From what I have read, Ratty has not made any insults to customers, instead he has commented on the so called people who think they know everything. Maybe this is the start of the clean up operation by BT on it's forums to have just experts answering customers rather than other customers who think they know what they are talking about.

That's unlikely as the forum is just customer to customer. The only BT presence is the Mods who can be contacted by filling in a web based form.

The Mods very much want the forum to be customer to customer, without BT involvement at all.

The user tags such as "Expert" are only related to post count not knowledge, and can safely be ignored.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

That's unlikely as the forum is just customer to customer. The only BT presence is the Mods who can be contacted by filling in a web based form.

The Mods very much want the forum to be customer to customer, without BT involvement at all.

The user tags such as "Expert" are only related to post count not knowledge, and can safely be ignored.

At the end of the day, it is not down to the mods, if BT want it for BT staff to help BT customers then the mods wont have a say.

When I said Experts, I did not mean the tags, I meant Experts as in BT staff.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

That's unlikely as the forum is just customer to customer. The only BT presence is the Mods who can be contacted by filling in a web based form.

The Mods very much want the forum to be customer to customer, without BT involvement at all.

The user tags such as "Expert" are only related to post count not knowledge, and can safely be ignored.

At the end of the day, it is not down to the mods, if BT want it for BT staff to help BT customers then the mods wont have a say.

When I said Experts, I did not mean the tags, I meant Experts as in BT staff.

I don't think BT staff are experts, you wouldn't have your experts answering level 1 queries.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

That's unlikely as the forum is just customer to customer. The only BT presence is the Mods who can be contacted by filling in a web based form.

The Mods very much want the forum to be customer to customer, without BT involvement at all.

The user tags such as "Expert" are only related to post count not knowledge, and can safely be ignored.

At the end of the day, it is not down to the mods, if BT want it for BT staff to help BT customers then the mods wont have a say.

When I said Experts, I did not mean the tags, I meant Experts as in BT staff.

I don't think BT staff are experts, you wouldn't have your experts answering level 1 queries.

Why are people so rude on this forum? I don't understand how people can say that Ratty is rude when you see the above comment?

There's nothing rude intended by it. One reason the Mods want queries posted on a web form is so they, level 1 support, can run it past the experts deeper in the organisation.

I see no rudeness in that comment; just a reasonable opinion.

You are confirming my previous post to you.

He's correct. Posting misleading and inaccurate information on the forum, using the alias Ratty2012, doesn't make you an expert.

Because ultimately if you said in a pub the sort of near-identical things you and he do, in particular nonsensically contradicting the statements of several of those present in your conversation group, you would either:

- shut up embarrassed by the laughter, (acronyms and smileys here not having anything like the same effect), possibly taking your toys home;

- get thumped if you didn't stop being ridiculous, (not a course of action I would approve of);

- find everyone else walked away leaving you muttering into your orange juice.

The third option isn't easily available here as we do have to try to counter your mis-information as people visit here needing correct advice. You simply get in the way of that with the bulk of your posts. I think I have seen three useful ones, and reacted positively to two of them.

That only leaves ridicule and rudeness as outlets for real dismay and anger.

Things all started to go wrong when you posted this, and got corrected by many including a BT engineer.

You're not bad at initiating the rudeness by the way. From nowhere, you came in with this one, being rude to all and sundry. Then got upset at the replies.

Particularly by mine it appears, from what has followed. I seem to have a stalker. Which is a nuisance.

When you make silly remarks about me or my website, I can and do try to ignore those. When you contradict valid posts and references it is sometimes impossible, for the reason given above re mis-information.

You have gone from bad to worse. How about starting again, and being sensible? You may even find we all turn civil. I for one have no desire to partake in the flame wars you ignite.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Because ultimately if you said in a pub the sort of near-identical things you and he do, in particular nonsensically contradicting the statements of several of those present in your conversation group, you would either:

- shut up embarrassed by the laughter, (acronyms and smileys here not having anything like the same effect), possibly taking your toys home;

- get thumped if you didn't stop being ridiculous, (not a course of action I would approve of);

- find everyone else walked away leaving you muttering into your orange juice.

The third option isn't easily available here as we do have to try to counter your mis-information as people visit here needing correct advice. You simply get in the way of that with the bulk of your posts. I think I have seen three useful ones, and reacted positively to two of them.

That only leaves ridicule and rudeness as outlets for real dismay and anger.

Things all started to go wrong when you posted this, and got corrected by many including a BT engineer.

You're not bad at initiating the rudeness by the way. From nowhere, you came in with this one, being rude to all and sundry. Then got upset at the replies.

Particularly by mine it appears, from what has followed. I seem to have a stalker. Which is a nuisance.

When you make silly remarks about me or my website, I can and do try to ignore those. When you contradict valid posts and references it is sometimes impossible, for the reason given above re mis-information.

You have gone from bad to worse. How about starting again, and being sensible? You may even find we all turn civil. I for one have no desire to partake in the flame wars you ignite.

As you refer to the following post http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/t/4197662-re-whe...

It is a valid question I was asking, people were already being rude to someone who was not even on this forum. If this is how people conduct themselves on forums, then they should be ashamed of themselves. At least have the respect to let someone defend themselves.

Sorry but if you do not agree with this, then you need help.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Sorry but if you do not agree with this, then you need help.

Wrong, it's just a difference of opinion. Get used to it.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Sorry but if you do not agree with this, then you need help.

Wrong, it's just a difference of opinion. Get used to it.

It seems like on this forum, if it's not your opinion then it does not count, which means you should be using a closed forum for that.

Note that my reference to that post was clearly intended to highlight that you introduced rudeness into exchanges between you and others. Not us.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Note that my reference to that post was clearly intended to highlight that you introduced rudeness into exchanges between you and others. Not us.

I think you might be a bit deluded on that. How on earth you came to that conclusion when I was pointing out that the rudeness existed before I posted. Even a child can grasp that concept.

I suggest people take a break have a cup of tea and come back with better attitudes and be tolerant of each other

Its been 6 days and some hours since the line issue was repaired , after 4 days latency dropped by around 15 ms

So i thought today i will restart modem and router , upload is now back to normal (2035.6 KB/sec ) latency is the same as before the restart BUT my ip profile has now dropped from 42.48 Mbps to 38.72 Mbps which seems strange

Would it be worth raising a low speed fault or should i just wait another week and hope for the best ?

Also seeing alot of CCA failure > 1 second in the logs since the restart

Does anyone know what it means ?

In reply to a post by Bapteeed:

Its been 6 days and some hours since the line issue was repaired , after 4 days latency dropped by around 15 ms

So i thought today i will restart modem and router , upload is now back to normal (2035.6 KB/sec ) latency is the same as before the restart BUT my ip profile has now dropped from 42.48 Mbps to 38.72 Mbps which seems strange

Would it be worth raising a low speed fault or should i just wait another week and hope for the best ?

It looks like you are now capped at exactly 40Mb sync speed as IP Profile is 96.79% of sync speed.

This may be a temporary measure that DLM will remove after a good few days of sustained stability.
However, it sometimes remained stuck & needs an engineer visit to get DLM reset to a wide open profile again.

In reply to a post by Bapteeed:

Also seeing alot of CCA failure > 1 second in the logs since the restart

Does anyone know what it means ?

I think it's attributable to the latest hub firmware http://community.bt.com/t5/Other-BB-Queries/Re-4-7-5...

I seen that but my wifi seems to work better

Yea it does seem stuck as latency and upload is starting to get back to normal ill give it a few more days

Thanks

In reference to www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/wireless/ps469/products_tech_note09...:

Clear Channel Assessment Parameter (CCA)

CCA is essentially the establishment of a noise floor below which it ignores RF inputs, in search of a good, solid signal. With the programmable CCA feature, wireless bridges can be configured to a particular background interference level found in a specific environment, for reduced overhead contention with other wireless systems.

A CCA threshold can decrease the receiver sensitivity by changing the absolute receive power level above which the channel is normally considered busy. The default value of the CCA parameter is 75. However, you can increase the CCA threshold to reduce noise in environments. CCA values can be set independently for root and non-root bridges.

There might be intermittent connectivity loses with wireless bridges if the CCA value is not configured correctly. Ensure that the CCA value is not set to zero and is set to the value close to the default value of 75 if not the default value. Wireless bridges that run Cisco IOS® Software Releases earlier than 12.3(2)JA hit a bug which changes the default CCA value to zero upon reboot of the device. Refer to Cisco bug ID CSCed46039 (registered customers only) for more information on this bug and the workaround.

In reply to a post by Bapteeed:

Its been 6 days and some hours since the line issue was repaired , after 4 days latency dropped by around 15 ms

So i thought today i will restart modem and router

It often takes a couple of weeks for DLM to start to give you back a decent speed. After that, it goes up incrementally (band by band???) every couple of days or so till it gets to where it should be. So wait another week or so and hope for the best.

You shouldn't need to restart the modem. DLM will force a resync when it decides the time is right; often around 2:00am. You often do need to disconnect/reconnect or restart the router, to make sure that the BRAS/IP profile matches the sync that DLM has given you. It is worth doing this first thing every morning while hoping for a DLM change.

(The BRAS/IP profile is updated to match the sync speed every time a new pppoe session is forced; eg when the router reconnects to the exchange. Sometimes DLM reconnecting the cabinet<->modem connection kills the old pppoe session and there is no need for manual intervention on the router; but often the DLM reconnect is fast enough the router does not notice and keeps the old pppoe connection.)

Thanks Stephen
It did the fast reconnect when the latency decreased which also increased upload just seemed strange to lower the download speed

My profile resets a fair amount due to an electric key
Seems to reset to fastpath after a few days of uptime and increases sync rates

It has taken the DLM 20 days to finaly get back to original speed and latency

Restarting the modem or router has no effect on it apart from maybe delay the process