Absolute hate of Smart Hub 2.

For years my parents have been happily using FTTC with a 3rd party router, the huawei HG612 modem and not a problem to be found.

Out of contract pricing was very high so renewed broadband. As a "Fibre First" exchange, they had to switch to FTTP and digital voice. BT wouldn't just re-contract on the existing service FTTC, you HAVE to migrate.

Anyways, it's all installed and working.

The problem is digital voice. Because it forces you to use the Smart Hub 2, an utter abomination of a device.

DHCP - Can't set DNS servers on the device or set DNS servers to be issued via DHCP. Forces you to use BT DNS servers. Annoying at a minimum.

Can't use it as a bridge for internet to use a 3rd party router. That would have been useful because then the SH2 could be used for voice and a competent device could be used for router functionality.

WiFi....this one just boggles my mind. Turned WiFi off because using the old competent router as a WiFi access point. At least I THOUGHT I turned WiFi off, it says it's off, the SSID doesn't show when scanning for networks....except WiFI channel scanning and connections/disconnections show in the event log. Why would WiFi need to show in the event log when WiFi has been disabled?

BT Public Wifi. Even if you turn WiFi off because of Public WiFi it's never really off. OK, can opt out of it....except my parents actually use it when they're out and about. Which means it has to stay enabled on the abomination of a router.

Have we gone back to the 1970s when you were forced to use a Post Office branded phone or your service wouldn't work? Now you're forced to use a BT router or your landline won't work.
Want a higher security router? Nope, not if you want your phone line to work.

And yes, I know I could have moved their number to a VoIP service and got a standalone ATA for the phones but they wanted to stay with BT.

Which means I'm left annoyed and furstrated at the mandated nonsense and being forced to use extremely overpriced and underwhelming hardware. And BT try to make it out to be the best device in existence :|

I think you have asked and answered the questions. Not a lot to add really.

Yeah.
I wish BT would release a standalone digital voice hub for people possibly with other broadband providers or people who just don't want to be locked into the SH2....wonder if it'll ever happen....

In reply to a post by NBK:

Yeah.
I wish BT would release a standalone digital voice hub for people possibly with other broadband providers or people who just don't want to be locked into the SH2....wonder if it'll ever happen....

I very much doubt it.

BT's Digital Voice doesn't work with other broadband providers.
You will no longer be able to take a voice line via BT while running broadband from another provider, over the same line, as you could with PSTN/FTTC.

On FTTP the default is a single port ONT. You need to take stand alone phone from BT, or both phone and broadband from BT, but you cannot take phone from BT and Broadband from supplier X. The phone from BT requires it's own internet connection.
Unless of course you can arrange a 4 port ONT, or install 2 ONT's. Either way the BT voice will require it's own internet connection and a BT Smart Hub.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 29-Apr-22 16:00:22)

Am I right in thinking BT Voice is to a considerable extent a deliberate non-industry-standard way of locking in customers?

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Am I right in thinking BT Voice is to a considerable extent a deliberate non-industry-standard way of locking in customers?

Zen require you to use 1 of their pre configured Fritzboxes to use their VOIP.
I think Hyperoptic require their CPE for their VOIP.
Virgin require the Virgin Hub for VOIP, though at least that works in modem mode.
Sky require their hub... etc...

It's becoming common place.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Am I right in thinking BT Voice is to a considerable extent a deliberate non-industry-standard way of locking in customers?

Maybe in the future there will be a way to separate the services. But I think at the moment they are trying to make the process as simple as possible, even if it's frustrating for the more tech-minded people.

OP, isn't it possible to port the phone number over to a VOIP provider then just order FTTP broadband from BT?

In reply to a post by NBK:

And yes, I know I could have moved their number to a VoIP service and got a standalone ATA for the phones but they wanted to stay with BT.

Unfortunately the choice really is that binary. There is no way around it and no plans for BT to change - but there is a choice...

In reply to a post by NBK:

Which means I'm left annoyed and frustrated

How do your parents feel about using the SH2? if they were as annoyed and frustrated as you are wouldn't they have moved their telephone number to a separate VOIP provider and used mobile data rather than BT public wifi while they were out and about?

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Apr-22 16:49:37)

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Am I right in thinking BT Voice is to a considerable extent a deliberate non-industry-standard way of locking in customers?

Most likely a side-effect of support cost savings by standardising the retail offering as they will have remote diagnostics.

The biggest gripe is that they do not offer a mechanism to split bundled broadband and voice to separate providers which is really what some customers want to be able to do.

Whilst there are complexities going from WLR3 + FTTC to SoGEA + VoIP from another provider, due to the way underlying systems and processes work, there is absolutely no technical reason why BT cannot offer migration of broadband from FTTC to FTTP, when it is available to the customer, and then allowing the customer to port out the WLR3 phone number to another provider. It is purely to retain people and make money from call packages or the eye-watering call charges.

Sky required their hub to use their broadband never mind digital voice.

It only changed when they bought o2 and by extension Be* (of which I was a part of with Be*) that they allowed 3rd party routers although that I think has fallen by the wayside again.

I used a Billion 7800N on sky for quite a while until FTTC became available and I switched to Plusnet for my own internet.

I always considered myself a bit more knowledgeable than the average user, and have been using my own routers for years as i never trusted the ISP supplied stuff, or found it to be limiting.

But after switching to digital voice a couple of weeks ago, I thought I would try the BT Smart Hub 2... and it seems to work fine.

DHCP/DNS servers - could be annoying, but I have disabled DHCP and set my pi-hole to act as the DHCP server so it gets round that issue.

Wi-Fi - I also have Wi-Fi disabled as I have a third party mesh system, and I dont see any entries relating to Wi-Fi, except for a few things that happen at boot-up. Possibly you are getting entries due to the public Wi-Fi.

As for turning off the public Wi-Fi, I think it's fair enough that if you turn it off you lose access. I don't use it so it didn't bother me turning it off.

Honestly, I don't think it's that bad and although it's got far less options than my Billion 8800AXL r2, in my day to day use the user experience is the same. The internet works fine across all devices, and the wife who works from home hasn't complained. It's pretty stable compared to earlier BT hubs.

The only thing it can't do which my Billion router did, is send me an email when the WAN IP address changes, but it's not an essential feature.

It's fine for the 99% who just want to plug and play and will never log into the user interface.

Edited by troublegum (Fri 29-Apr-22 19:11:48)

They (well my dad really) isn't keen for public wifi on the SH2 at all.
Also my dad put the renewal through thinking he'd just be renewing the FTTC/landline service he had. It's safe the say the horse had bolted when the install and switch over happened etc. Mobile data....they don't have a whole lot.

Also, seperate VoIP provider is extra hidden costs since having to pay for extra equipment (be it VoIP phones or an ATA) and being 70 year old pensioners extra costs aren't a great thing....one thing I'll say for BT is they sent DV adapters for free

Extra cost limits choice where with BT equipment (including DV adapters) was free, with a VoIP provider you typically have to pay out for equipment :|

In reply to a post by bowdon:

OP, isn't it possible to port the phone number over to a VOIP provider then just order FTTP broadband from BT?

The horse has bolted on that one as they had renewed contract as it was out of contract not realising/knowing/really being properly made aware of the switch to DV and even if they had when my dad ordered, they wouldn't have really understood the ramifications of it. No I wasn't involved in the ordering/renewal process, I deal with tech support/aftermath!

I hear you.

I think the VOIP situation is going to be a big issue for many non-tech people this year, even for a lot of younger people who can use software/devices but they dont know the tech side of things.

The ISP's don't make it that clear. I'm looking to upgrade to FTTP via BT and the first page that opens is Broadband only, then on a clickable link line of writing it says something like "if you choose this then you will lose your phone number". It's like they are trying to scare/direct people in to the ISP's preferred choice.

I'd like to set up a pihole myself and i did think of using it for DHCP but it's more expense and....well the best device to run it on is a Pi and good luck finding those in stock any time soon :|

Yeah you don't see WiFi entries because you opted out of BT WiFi, something I've done for the too at the moment.
It's really sketchy though that turning off WiFi doesn't actually turn off WiFi.

Yes they do seem to be hard to find at the moment. You don't need a high end one, mine runs fine on an old model 2b which can probably be found on ebay for not a lot of money.

https://rpilocator.com/ - keep a lookout here

Pihole will run on pretty much anything even the zero but a USB ethernet port is an unwanted added expense

I have an older Orange Pi that also works fine so other boards are suitable and maybe easier to source currently.

Regarding the SH2 - It really is a device that works for 95% of BTs users so I understand why they do some of the things they do.

I haven't used my Homehub for around 10 years and the BT wifi still works which is another added benefit from leaving it enabled and using your own router (where possible of course).
I really cannot fault BT for VDSL tbh as I have a fantastic connection but Swish are currently installing so will move to full fibre hopefully this year.

My Broadband Ping

Edited by smouty (Sat 30-Apr-22 09:26:53)

So, you are complaining about the complimentary drinks that came free with the service ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So, you are complaining about the complimentary drinks that came free with the service ?

that is a really bad an incorrect take.

there's no extra cost to use DV as it uses the hub you use for the broadband. there is extra cost for other VoIP providers because you'd typically have to buy your own hardware (at minimum an ATA or at most a lot of money to buy enough replacement digital/VoIP phones).

There's no complaining about complimentary drinks because there was nothing extra provided to use the service, it's all pre-existing with the internet router.

In reply to a post by NBK:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So, you are complaining about the complimentary drinks that came free with the service ?

that is a really bad an incorrect take.

Maybe he was talking about

In reply to a post by NBK:

one thing I'll say for BT is they sent DV adapters for free

I was moaning about the OP complaint about having to use the router the CP supply if the OP’s parents wish to use the DV service that their CP provide … he was given a good work around, don’t use the supplied router, port the number to a VOIP service, but he seemed to baulk at additional costs …

There’s no pleasing some folk it would seem Dect.

I don’t find it surprising that CP’s are wriggling to keep customers, they are feeling the pinch. I wonder how many years it’ll take for the BT group to recoup its costs as it ambles towards full fibre ? Let’s not forget all the Johnny Come Lately’s AltNets snapping at their heels.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I was moaning about the OP complaint about having to use the router the CP supply if the OP’s parents wish to use the DV service that their CP provide … he was given a good work around, don’t use the supplied router, port the number to a VOIP service, but he seemed to baulk at additional costs …

There’s no pleasing some folk it would seem Dect.

I don’t find it surprising that CP’s are wriggling to keep customers, they are feeling the pinch. I wonder how many years it’ll take for the BT group to recoup its costs as it ambles towards full fibre ? Let’s not forget all the Johnny Come Lately’s AltNets snapping at their heels.

I mean....yes I baulk at the additional costs of it. My parents, the ones who pay for their service, are elderly pensioners. Maybe when you're that old you'd understand?

In reply to a post by NBK:

I mean....yes I baulk at the additional costs of it. My parents, the ones who pay for their service, are elderly pensioners. Maybe when you're that old you'd understand?

I maybe their age I couldn't possibly say

I personally would have ported the number to a cheap VOIP provider and used my own router rather than the SH2 if I thought its was as bad as you\they do.

Maybe some kind son of mine would have bought me an ATA for a present if I couldn't have afforded it

In reply to a post by NBK:

Extra cost limits choice where with BT equipment (including DV adapters) was free, with a VoIP provider you typically have to pay out for equipment :|

The inbuilt ATA is frequently locked to the suppliers VoIP service, if it wasn't, then any hosted VoIP provider could be used without the need to buy any additional hardware.

The installation of FTTP is a parallel service to FTTC and remains live until you terminate the service. During this period you can port the line number to a hosted provider which will automatically cease the original broadband service.

Where the new routers inbuilt ATA can't be configured to use another VoIP provider's service, then as an absolute minimum you need only to purchase an inexpensive standalone ATA. You just do the sums to see if it is financially advantageous to split the broadband and voice service between two entities.

Of course if you just pick up the phone and ask your existing ISP to upgrade you to FTTP, then more fool you without doing your homework first.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by NBK:

Extra cost limits choice where with BT equipment (including DV adapters) was free, with a VoIP provider you typically have to pay out for equipment :|

Of course if you just pick up the phone and ask your existing ISP to upgrade you to FTTP, then more fool you without doing your homework first.

Not more fool me at all since, as stated in other posts, I didn't order the renewal (and everybody was unaware it would be switched to FTTP/DV as was just expecting renewal on the FTTC).

I may be older than you think. I may well have a great deal of experience dealing with all manner of folk.

This digital voice thing sound a lawful thing, my next door neighbour have it on their Sky router, and they use the home phone a fair bit, so if the power goes down they have no home phone, who ever thought of this idea without some sort of battery back up system need sacking.

I have been using VoIP for years, so I am used to it, a lot of people are not and to be honest, I use my home phone once in a blue moon these days, the only reason I keep the VoIP is that I have money on it, I topped it up a few years ago with a tenner and also my brother call me on it.

I saw BT temporarily pulled the plug on further digital voice rollouts until the power issue is resolved.

https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voi...

In reply to a post by smouty:

I saw BT temporarily pulled the plug on further digital voice rollouts until the power issue is resolved.

https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voi...

If only that were accurate.
In reality they paused in-contract migrations but if renewing, especially on a fibre priority exchange, they force you over anyway.

In reply to a post by NBK:

In reply to a post by smouty:

I saw BT temporarily pulled the plug on further digital voice rollouts until the power issue is resolved.

https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voi...

If only that were accurate.
In reality they paused in-contract migrations but if renewing, especially on a fibre priority exchange, they force you over anyway.

Correction only in so much as you can use any hosted VoIP provider, if so desired,.in conjunction with the ISP providing the FTTP service.

In reply to a post by NBK:

In reply to a post by smouty:

I saw BT temporarily pulled the plug on further digital voice rollouts until the power issue is resolved.

https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voi...

If only that were accurate.
In reality they paused in-contract migrations but if renewing, especially on a fibre priority exchange, they force you over anyway.

At least they have realised that something needs to be done. I know that a lot of people use mobiles, but some still rely on home phones and what about those that don't have broadband?
It is just another gadget that can go wrong.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by NBK:

I mean....yes I baulk at the additional costs of it. My parents, the ones who pay for their service, are elderly pensioners. Maybe when you're that old you'd understand?

I maybe their age I couldn't possibly say

I personally would have ported the number to a cheap VOIP provider and used my own router rather than the SH2 if I thought its was as bad as you\they do.

Maybe some kind son of mine would have bought me an ATA for a present if I couldn't have afforded it

Sadly didn't know it was this bad ahead of time and the son recently spent a grand on car repairs

In reply to a post by NBK:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by NBK:

Extra cost limits choice where with BT equipment (including DV adapters) was free, with a VoIP provider you typically have to pay out for equipment :|

Of course if you just pick up the phone and ask your existing ISP to upgrade you to FTTP, then more fool you without doing your homework first.

Not more fool me at all since, as stated in other posts, I didn't order the renewal (and everybody was unaware it would be switched to FTTP/DV as was just expecting renewal on the FTTC).

Then ask for a recording of the call to determine you were mislead in anyway.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Am I right in thinking BT Voice is to a considerable extent a deliberate non-industry-standard way of locking in customers?

Zen require you to use 1 of their pre configured Fritzboxes to use their VOIP.
I think Hyperoptic require their CPE for their VOIP.
Virgin require the Virgin Hub for VOIP, though at least that works in modem mode.
Sky require their hub... etc...

It's becoming common place.

It's a bit pointless having defined standards for various connection protocols, if Ofcom just sit back and let the ISPs devise their own proprietary systems !