In reply to a post by yarwell:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Will your privately sourced OR modem provide a service to the WAN socket of the new router? Theory is one thing but has anyone actually got that set up to work?

There's no doubt the OR modem will serve a random PPPoE router or indeed computer via its WAN port. As said above "Many, many posters in these forums use their own supplied routers with the OR modem. I am one. They do work."

Does the HH5 have an ethernet WAN port or just an RJ11 for the phone line ?

It has a WAN port, it can be used with the openreach modem.

The primary purpose of that port is for FTTP services but it works on FTTC also.

I ran my HH5 like that for months on trial.

for the record the HH4 managed a reasonable sync speed on my (non-BT Broadband) line...

( 107.820000) ETHoA is up - VPI: 0, VCI:35
00:01:47, 01 Jan. ( 107.820000) DSL is up
00:01:46, 01 Jan. ( 106.910000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 3.00 dB downstream
00:01:44, 01 Jan. ( 104.900000) DSL line rate: 1132 Kbps upstream, 10900 Kbps downstream

about the same as the resident technicolor gets. I wasn't able to use the BT test logins to get a connection and see if the ping issues were present, the thing just sat playing at auto-configuration for an hour or two. The 0,35 in the log was interesting.

ETA Technicolor :

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.176 / 11.209
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,7 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,3 / 39,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5,8 / 3,1

Edited by yarwell (Thu 07-Nov-13 11:54:04)

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Let's just simply say this. On installation the HH5 is used without an OR modem on a FTTC service. Later you decide that you want to use your own router because it contains features that the HH5 doesn't support. So you get your own desired router and also nip onto eBay to pick up an OR modem for twenty quid or so. Will your privately sourced OR modem provide a service to the WAN socket of the new router? Theory is one thing but has anyone actually got that set up to work?

My "official" setup is a separate OR-supplied NGA ECI-MODEM and a HH3.

I've tested:

OR-supplied modem with a suitable Thomson TG582n (WAN on port 4).
ebay-supplied NGA ECI-MODEM and the HH3.

Both setups work fine. I don't see any reason why replacing the HH5 with a similar setup shouldn't work.

John.

In reply to a post by John_ON:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Let's just simply say this. On installation the HH5 is used without an OR modem on a FTTC service. Later you decide that you want to use your own router because it contains features that the HH5 doesn't support. So you get your own desired router and also nip onto eBay to pick up an OR modem for twenty quid or so. Will your privately sourced OR modem provide a service to the WAN socket of the new router? Theory is one thing but has anyone actually got that set up to work?

My "official" setup is a separate OR-supplied NGA ECI-MODEM and a HH3.

I've tested:

OR-supplied modem with a suitable Thomson TG582n (WAN on port 4).
ebay-supplied NGA ECI-MODEM and the HH3.

Both setups work fine. I don't see any reason why replacing the HH5 with a similar setup shouldn't work.

John.

I think I must be having a bad week at the office with my grasp of English and typos not conveying what I wish to say. So let's try again.

Irrespective of the router you are using, can you replace the officially supplied OR modem on a FTTC service with a privately purchased equivalent one, from say eBay?

Conversely if your current setup just has a HH5 router, installed without an official supplied OR modem, on a FFTC service, that you wish to replace with a router of your choice, then in most cases an OR modem will be required. Again if you privately purchase an OR modem are there any issues connecting this up to your new router? It is suggested, but not confirmed, that this would not be a problem.

Similarly on Virgin media you may wish to ditch the supplied "all in one" cable modem/ router with a separate router and cable modem. Personally I believe trying to do that will run into all sorts of issues. However as it happens the newer "all in one" from Virgin can be downgraded to modem mode only, something that apparently is not an HH5 feature.

As others have said many people have bought their own modem from private sources and used it on FTTC connections. If you had an HH5 and wished to replace it then a privately purchased modem should work.

Can anyone give you a guarantee that every privately purchased modem will work? No

Can anyone give you a guarantee that BT won't do something in the future that for some reason stopped this from working? No

What other guarantees are you looking for *users* on this forum to provide? Your questions have been answered several times to the best capacity of the people who (people who do not make the policies at BT).

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by John_ON:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Let's just simply say this. On installation the HH5 is used without an OR modem on a FTTC service. Later you decide that you want to use your own router because it contains features that the HH5 doesn't support. So you get your own desired router and also nip onto eBay to pick up an OR modem for twenty quid or so. Will your privately sourced OR modem provide a service to the WAN socket of the new router? Theory is one thing but has anyone actually got that set up to work?

My "official" setup is a separate OR-supplied NGA ECI-MODEM and a HH3.

I've tested:

OR-supplied modem with a suitable Thomson TG582n (WAN on port 4).
ebay-supplied NGA ECI-MODEM and the HH3.

Both setups work fine. I don't see any reason why replacing the HH5 with a similar setup shouldn't work.

John.

I think I must be having a bad week at the office with my grasp of English and typos not conveying what I wish to say. So let's try again.

Irrespective of the router you are using, can you replace the officially supplied OR modem on a FTTC service with a privately purchased equivalent one, from say eBay?

Conversely if your current setup just has a HH5 router, installed without an official supplied OR modem, on a FFTC service, that you wish to replace with a router of your choice, then in most cases an OR modem will be required. Again if you privately purchase an OR modem are there any issues connecting this up to your new router? It is suggested, but not confirmed, that this would not be a problem.

Similarly on Virgin media you may wish to ditch the supplied "all in one" cable modem/ router with a separate router and cable modem. Personally I believe trying to do that will run into all sorts of issues. However as it happens the newer "all in one" from Virgin can be downgraded to modem mode only, something that apparently is not an HH5 feature.

I think you may be looking for complications where there are none.

Irrespective of the router you are using, can you replace the officially supplied OR modem on a FTTC service with a privately purchased equivalent one, from say eBay?

Yes.

I'm not using a HH5 so can't directly answer your second question but I'd be very surprised if it didn't work.

If you really want to use a different router, I suggest getting a brand new OR modem off ebay for less than £20. Plug it in and, if the DSL light lights, the connection to the DSLAM in the cabinet is confirmed and you will have a PPPoE WAN connection at the ethernet port awaiting a suitable router of your choice.

Can't comment about Virgin but I suspect it may establish the connection based on the MAC address of the modem/router. I've just swapped my OR modem for my ebay OR 'spare' and my internet address didn't change, if that means anything.

John.

Just to muddy the water a little bit, in two ways.

First, I don't think anybody has mentioned that the Huawei Openreach modem is in fact a modem/router locked into bridge mode. I expect the eBay ones are loaded with the Openreach or hacked (unlocked but set to bridge mode) firmware but haven't checked any.

The ECI modem I believe is also a modem/router locked to bridge mode, but not sure.

Second, so far as I know the only VDSL2 router approved by Openreach is the HH5, and I don't think even that should yet be being fitted stand-alone by OR contractors. Has none-fitting of the OR "modem" been authorised yet?

Other modem routers are known to work, as has been said earlier. Whether they comply with the published Openreach specification of requirements for forward compatability is another question.

At long last a response that is not confusing and answers all my question. The case is now closed. With many thanks.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

so far as I know the only VDSL2 router approved by Openreach is the HH5, and I don't think even that should yet be being fitted stand-alone by OR contractors. Has none-fitting of the OR "modem" been authorised yet?

I am not aware of an official statement that any products have been approved by Openreach, but I think we can take it as read that any router with a built in VDSL2 modem supplied by an ISP has successfully passed the Openreach compatibility tests laid down in SIN 498.

In fact, it was EE who were first to market with their integrated VDSL2 router - the new BrightBox 2 has a built in VDSL2 modem. BT Retail's Home Hub 5 came to market a little later on.


I believe that installation of FTTC without an Openreach modem is only supposed to happen as part of ongoing trials.

In reply to a post by John_ON:

Can't comment about Virgin but I suspect it may establish the connection based on the MAC address of the modem/router.

With Virgin Media, you have to use the devices they rent to you as part of your subscription. They will not provision customer owned devices, which are therefore unable to connect to the cable network.