first time buying a router - overwhelmed by choice!

as the title says, this is the first time i've been in a position to select my own router, and i'm a bit overwhelmed by all the choice out there. i was hoping the fine contributors to this forum could guide me a little

i read a couple of the posts in this section and i'm leaning towards the Netgear R6300 right now (my budget is £100, it seems I can get it for this off the german amazon site). my priorities are fast ethernet and wifi and good wifi coverage. and that it works with a minimum of breaking down. i'm not knowledgeable enough to know all the fine technical points behind what makes a good router and all, so I was hoping whether anyone on this forum could tell me whether the Netgear R6300 would be a good fit for me?

thanks in advance

First question: What service are you on? ADSLx or VDSL2 (Infinity or similar)?

How many other devices will you connect to this router?

Do you need the ultrafast wireless connection?


Buying from Amazon.de may mean you get a device localised to Germany which will be supplied with a German power adapter that will need a UK/De plug adapter. You may also find that it is set up for Germany which has some restrictions on te use of the 5GHZ band and with some manufacturers it is almost impossible to change.

It totally depends what your requirements are, feature wise. There are pros and cons with every router. You choose what's good for you.

The Netgear R6300 is a top router, comparable in performance (according to the reviews) to the Asus RT-AC66U:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/262185/netgear_r6300_...

Speeds are blindingly fast IF you use the right adapter/network card:
http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19668/...

So to make the most of this router you should use either an 802.11ac or dual-band 802.11n wifi adapter/card.

Most laptops are fitted with cheaper wifi cards that support 300mbps or less and most that do support 802.11n are not dual-band, so cannot use the 5ghz band for better speed and reduced interference.

I recently bought the Intel Ultimate-N 6300 wifi card that is used in some of the review tests. Got it off amazon for £20 new. This card is a three-stream (450mb/s) card so would work well with the R6300. To get the max performance out of the R6300 you'd need an AC adapter though.

I have a 120mb/s Virgin broadband connection and like that I get my full wired speed over wifi.

You can see some speed tests here with different adapters and how much difference it makes:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-rev...
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-rev...

If you have a LARGE house, 100mb+ broadband, multiple devices that use wifi with adapters that can support the higher speeds (such as AC or 5ghz 802.11n adapters) and want the best of the best then I'm sure it'll be a good fit for you.

Some more general reviews:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-rev...

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/networking-a...

Most high-end routers have gigabit ports for ethernet, so as long as your computer has a gigabit network card (10/100/1000) you'll have no problems there. Just make sure your cable is at least cat5e or cat6, so that it supports gigabit speeds.

An alternative, if you don't absolutely need the performance that an AC class router provides is to go for the top router in the N class, the Asus RT-N66U.

Pretty much everyone raves about this router. It's very reliable. Proven. Easy to use. High performance and best in its class.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2028227/asus-rt-n66u-...

http://uk.asus.com/Networks/Wireless_Routers/RTN66U/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-RT-N66U-Wireless-stream...

As you can see here, performance is still very fast, though being an N class router it's not in the AC league obviously:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/262149/asus_rt_ac66u_...

For a first time router you'll never regret it.

In reply to a post by MUD_Wizard:

Pretty much everyone raves about this router.

Some people say it stops working after a few weeks.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Some people say it stops working after a few weeks.

Do they? Mine's 6 weeks old, should I be getting worried?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by MUD_Wizard:

Pretty much everyone raves about this router.

Some people say it stops working after a few weeks.

I know loads of people with this router and none of them have had issues. It's one of the most highly recommended routers, so you think more people would report it.

If you search the net you'll hardly ever see reports of problems with it. Certainly I haven't seen a review mentioning such issues. If you know different, post some links.

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Jul-13 19:12:08)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Some people say it stops working after a few weeks.

Do they? Mine's 6 weeks old, should I be getting worried?

Batboy is going to come round and break it for you.

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Jul-13 19:10:53)

I usually only recommend things I have experience of, not what I have only read about.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Some people say it stops working after a few weeks.

Do they? Mine's 6 weeks old, should I be getting worried?

I've had mine just over a year without it missing a beat¹, so you've got a while to go yet

Excellent router.



¹ Fingers crossed, I don't normally tempt fate like that

thank you all for the replies! ill go through them all

In reply to a post by MHC:

First question: What service are you on? ADSLx or VDSL2 (Infinity or similar)?

How many other devices will you connect to this router?

Do you need the ultrafast wireless connection?


Buying from Amazon.de may mean you get a device localised to Germany which will be supplied with a German power adapter that will need a UK/De plug adapter. You may also find that it is set up for Germany which has some restrictions on te use of the 5GHZ band and with some manufacturers it is almost impossible to change.

i'll be on ADSL (this is for a new place I'm moving into). I'd definitely upgrade to fibre or cable or whatever, as soon as possible, but I'm pretty sure that the phone line in my place runs directly to the exchange, not through a cabinet, so fibre doesn't seem likely in the immediate future. but having a router that could handle that would be good as then I could just keep it for the long-term

I'll have one desktop connected by ethernet, up to 3 laptops connected by wifi simultaneously, 2 smartphones, and a tablet. that's probably the upper limit. most of the time it'll just be a desktop, a laptop, and a phone.

I don't think I need the ultrafast wireless connection. I mean I can't see my ADSL being more than 20 Mbps anyway. I mean it'd probably be nice, maybe for when I get fibre, but it's not a necessity. (I'm assuming that 'ultrafast wireless' is the 900 Mbps it mentions on the amazon product page)

Thanks for the headsup about the germany thing. It goes at £130 on ebay which is probably still out of my budget (unless you think it's necessary for my needs)

Does your ISP provide a router?

In reply to a post by MUD_Wizard:

It totally depends what your requirements are, feature wise. There are pros and cons with every router. You choose what's good for you.

The Netgear R6300 is a top router, comparable in performance (according to the reviews) to the Asus RT-AC66U:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/262185/netgear_r6300_...

Speeds are blindingly fast IF you use the right adapter/network card:
http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19668/...

So to make the most of this router you should use either an 802.11ac or dual-band 802.11n wifi adapter/card.

Most laptops are fitted with cheaper wifi cards that support 300mbps or less and most that do support 802.11n are not dual-band, so cannot use the 5ghz band for better speed and reduced interference.

I recently bought the Intel Ultimate-N 6300 wifi card that is used in some of the review tests. Got it off amazon for £20 new. This card is a three-stream (450mb/s) card so would work well with the R6300. To get the max performance out of the R6300 you'd need an AC adapter though.

I have a 120mb/s Virgin broadband connection and like that I get my full wired speed over wifi.

Wow! sounds good. Well with my desktop it would be an Ethernet connection, so I guess the 802.11n/etc thing doesn't apply to that right. My laptop will be the sony vaio pro 13 (once I get it delivered in a couple of weeks!) which is 802.11n if I'm right, although I'm not sure whether it's dual band or not.

like I mentioned above, my connection will only be 20Mbps ADSL to start, but if fibre does become available for me I'd upgrade in a heartbeat.

You can see some speed tests here with different adapters and how much difference it makes:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-rev...
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-rev...

If you have a LARGE house, 100mb+ broadband, multiple devices that use wifi with adapters that can support the higher speeds (such as AC or 5ghz 802.11n adapters) and want the best of the best then I'm sure it'll be a good fit for you.

Some more general reviews:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-rev...

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/networking-a...

Thanks - I'll check out the reviews, but if getting it from the german amazon is a bad idea then I have to pay £130ish for it, in which case it's probably not ideal for me. Also I'll be living in a 2bed flat which isn't really that big, and the main heavy use of the internet (where really fast speeds are needed) will be over ethernet on my desktop. on all other devices, having like 8Mbps would be more than enough. so I don't know if I need the power of this router now!

Most high-end routers have gigabit ports for ethernet, so as long as your computer has a gigabit network card (10/100/1000) you'll have no problems there. Just make sure your cable is at least cat5e or cat6, so that it supports gigabit speeds.

Ah I see, just saw this bit, then yeah I'm not sure this one is for me, seems a bit too high end.

In reply to a post by MUD_Wizard:

An alternative, if you don't absolutely need the performance that an AC class router provides is to go for the top router in the N class, the Asus RT-N66U.

Pretty much everyone raves about this router. It's very reliable. Proven. Easy to use. High performance and best in its class.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2028227/asus-rt-n66u-...

http://uk.asus.com/Networks/Wireless_Routers/RTN66U/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-RT-N66U-Wireless-stream...

As you can see here, performance is still very fast, though being an N class router it's not in the AC league obviously:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/262149/asus_rt_ac66u_...

For a first time router you'll never regret it.

I don't think I need an AC class router since my laptop doesnt have an ac card and I won't replace it for at least 2 years, and my desktop will use ethernet. so doesnt seem necessary right now. the router you linked looks pretty good too, and I could just about stretch my budget to fit it in! The first review mentions that I can just plug my phone into the router to tether, which is great because that's what I'll be doing until internet is setup in my new place.

that reviewer also used it with BT infinity so I'm assuming it can handle fibre and all. so is the main feature difference between this Asus one and the Netgear one I linked before the lack of a/c?

edit: found it for under 100, http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/161050761558?var=gv&l...

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Jul-13 21:19:50)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does your ISP provide a router?

nope.

In reply to a post by nish81:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does your ISP provide a router?

nope.

So don't you need a modem?

The R6300 is only a router and only suited for VDSL. If you are on ADSL then you will need a modem and the D6300 is the equivalent but more expensive.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by nish81:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does your ISP provide a router?

nope.

So don't you need a modem?

Having just looked into this I feel like an idiot now. i'll have to call my ISP tomorrow and double check with them exactly what I need to get. I'm assuming that neither the netgear r6300 or the asus n66u are hybrid router/modem all-in-ones?

My ISP will be Aquiss, incase anyone here is aware of what they do and dont provide. but I'll ring them up just to confirm it all with them. the email I got specifically said that they dont provide any 'router hardware'

In reply to a post by nish81:

My ISP will be Aquiss

Jeez. Good luck

In reply to a post by MHC:

The R6300 is only a router and only suited for VDSL. If you are on ADSL then you will need a modem and the D6300 is the equivalent but more expensive.

I see. it's only £5 more on the UK amazon tbh and if I do need a modem too then it migth be a good buy.

do you know if the D6300 is as good as the asus rt-n66u in terms of wifi signal/coverage and reliability? the D6300 seems to have some pretty bad reviews on amazon. would it be better to combine the asus with a modem? or is there some other hybrid router/modem that's the 'gold standard' of hybrid units in the same way that the asus is the gold standard of routers?

thanks again for all this advice, i'd probably have made some expensive mistakes without you guys

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by nish81:

My ISP will be Aquiss

Jeez. Good luck

whats wrong with them?

I wouldn't touch a reseller.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I wouldn't touch a reseller.

why's that? worse service/connectivity? I've read really good reviews about aquiss

Don't take too much notice of Batboy and his opinions- nobody else does

This is just my opinion, but to me, a reseller buys off a wholesaler who has bought a package from BT Wholesale or an LLU provider. Chances are you'll end up on BT or TalkTalk and if anything goes wrong, you'll have to persuade your reseller to contact their wholesaler and get them to contact their wholesaler, when you could have gone directly to BT or TT and been a customer with direct access to the support team.

Too many layers.

In reply to a post by nish81:

i'll have to call my ISP tomorrow and double check with them exactly what I need to get.

Why bother? On ADSL you definitely need a modem connected to the phone socket, either freestanding or a hybrid router/modem all-in-one.

In reply to a post by billford:

Don't take too much notice of Batboy and his opinions- nobody else does

Hope you're happy with noIDeaNet

In reply to a post by billford:

Don't take too much notice of Batboy and his opinions- nobody else does

Aha, I see

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

This is just my opinion, but to me, a reseller buys off a wholesaler who has bought a package from BT Wholesale or an LLU provider. Chances are you'll end up on BT or TalkTalk and if anything goes wrong, you'll have to persuade your reseller to contact their wholesaler and get them to contact their wholesaler, when you could have gone directly to BT or TT and been a customer with direct access to the support team.

Too many layers.

well if that were the case wouldn't there be some bad reviews of Aquiss's support process? but every review I've read of their support seems to be pretty great.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by nish81:

i'll have to call my ISP tomorrow and double check with them exactly what I need to get.

Why bother? On ADSL you definitely need a modem connected to the phone socket, either freestanding or a hybrid router/modem all-in-one.

Right, but I'm wondering whether they provide a modem or not. In their email they specifically said they dont provide a router. I don't know what exactly they meant and no harm asking anyway

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Hope you're happy with noIDeaNet

QED

In reply to a post by nish81:

I don't know what exactly they meant

Well, that's a great start.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by nish81:

I don't know what exactly they meant

Well, that's a great start.

Their exact words were 'no router hardware is provided by ourselves', so I don't know whether they meant a router in the technically accurate sense of 'we give a modem but not a router' or not. And I didn't ask about a modem in the first place

To be fair, they probably don't know themselves.

Anyway, so far I have this:

if they do provide a modem, the asus n66u is a solid router that's in my price range so I'll probably go for that.

if they don't provide a router, there's the d6300 but some of the bad reviews on that one put me off, so I'll still look around a bit more for another router that's in the same class as the n66u in terms of reputation

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

To be fair, they probably don't know themselves.

Have you actually used Aquiss, or are you attributing a general level of ignorance to all resellers?

In reply to a post by nish81:

Their exact words were 'no router hardware is provided by ourselves', so I don't know whether they meant a router in the technically accurate sense of 'we give a modem but not a router' or not.

Still don't bother! I may have mislead you, but, AFAIK, no ADSL ISP supplies a modem alone. It would be a job only part done! They either supply their own combined modem/router or nothing at all, or let you choose whether you want to 'buy' theirs or get your own.

All resellers. As I said, I wouldn't touch them, but that's just my opinion. I tend to stick to BT, Sky or TalkTalk but TalkTalk aren't for the faint-hearted. I was with BE for a long time but they lost the plot and are now owned by Sky.
BT's value arm, Plusnet, get some good reviews but appear to have some manual systems which go awry.

So my choice would be Sky but only if they have LLU available, or BT. Both of which provide a modem/router

One thing that I would like to add is that it's good to have a router with an event log where sync time stats are recorded. If one does have any problems with a line is handy to know the noise margins etc. at the moment of a resync

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I tend to stick to BT, Sky or TalkTalk

Says it all...

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I tend to stick to BT, Sky or TalkTalk

Says it all...

You forgot to include Aquiss in that comparison

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I tend to stick to BT, Sky or TalkTalk

Says it all...

You forgot to include Aquiss in that comparison

They don't have enough ratings to be included in the comparisons, I'd have thought you'd have checked that before making yourself look uninformed...

In reply to a post by billford:

I'd have thought you'd have checked that

That's why I mentioned it. It's basically no help to the OP. I guess you're trying to start a flame war?

*eats his popcorn*

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I guess you're trying to start a flame war?

Not me...

Sorry, I'm unable to recommend a modem/router. I have several gathering dust here as I'm on fibre and I use a PC running pfSense router software. My VDSL modem is provided by Openreach.

In reply to a post by billford:

They don't have enough ratings to be included in the comparisons, I'd have thought you'd have checked that before making yourself look uninformed...

That's a bit harsh Bill. Especially as I'd have thought you would have known that Aquiss aren't on the tbb (limited) list of providers for rating .

I haven't looked at a comparison for a while - I see the Speed rating has been replaced by an Overall satisfaction one.

Just to add to the data from the comparisons though, I've added in another couple.

In reply to a post by nish81:

Their exact words were 'no router hardware is provided by ourselves', so I don't know whether they meant a router in the technically accurate sense of 'we give a modem but not a router' or not. And I didn't ask about a modem in the first place

In general the term Router is used to mean a modem/router if talking about ADSLx, (which is what you are looking at), and a true router if talking about VM Cable or Openreach FTTC. There are occasional exceptions, which we just have to spot when they occur.

In the case of Aquiss I'm sure that for ADSLx connections they mean they don't supply any hardware that is or contains a modem.

On FTTC all users of all ISPs are currently automatically supplied with a VDSL2 modem/router with a single usable Ethernet output port, which is locked into bridge mode so performs as a pure modem. ISPs may or may nor provide a suitable router for FTTC to go with t.

I expect that you already know that even what we call a router with no modem is almost always not just a router anyway . It pretty well always also has in the box an Ethernet 4-port switch and usually a WAP.

Edit - and by the way, you are right, Aquiss have a good reputation here. Just that being purely a reseller of various services they don't qualify for listing on this site.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 02-Jul-13 23:48:16)

There's a thread here which looks promising http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/entanet/f/4228745-v...

It appears the ISP may be able to suggest a good modem/router.

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Jul-13 23:56:39)

In reply to a post by nish81:

i'll be on ADSL (this is for a new place I'm moving into). I'd definitely upgrade to fibre or cable or whatever, as soon as possible, but I'm pretty sure that the phone line in my place runs directly to the exchange, not through a cabinet, so fibre doesn't seem likely in the immediate future. but having a router that could handle that would be good as then I could just keep it for the long-term

If you're going for ADSL you'll need a ADSL2+ modem/router. You can buy the modems standalone or go for a combo router (with or without wireless) which has a modem built in.

Standalone ADSL2+ Ethernet modems are available on Amazon for £10-£15. Which you can then connect your computer (or separate wireless router) to directly by ethernet cable. If you're using a separate wireless router, you connect your desktop computer into the ethernet port on the back of the wireless router.

Many of the ISP's offer:
1) The "no router" option. Buy your own.
2) A 'free' combo router (maybe with delivery charges).
3) Sell you a combo router.

The only problem with the combo router option is if you don't like the wireless router functionality or performance you're often stuck with it unless you buy another complete unit.

The alternative is to get just an ethernet modem (for cheap) to run the internet service and then buy your own wireless router to run your wireless network. The wireless router is usually the more expensive part of the package anyway.

Then when you change your ISP you can take your wireless router with you no matter whether it's cable (which requires a cable modem) or fibre.
Be aware that some providers still own the equipment that you pay to be installed/delivered.


I would recommend checking out what alternative ISP's you have in your exchange:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

Here's an example of mine: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WSLAN

Also you can check which cabinet number you're on (or not) from here:
https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/pls/adsl/ADSLChecker.A...

I'll have one desktop connected by ethernet, up to 3 laptops connected by wifi simultaneously, 2 smartphones, and a tablet. that's probably the upper limit. most of the time it'll just be a desktop, a laptop, and a phone.

Your smartphones and tablet may do 5ghz band. They'll certainly be 802.11n. So I'd recommend at least an N class wireless router to match the performance of your devices. 802.11g is much slower (54mbps) but you could end up with 1mb-20mb/s performance out of that, due to communication overhead and inteference.

Also because you're going to be using a few devices simultaneously, even though your internet may be only 20mb/s, in order to make it work well it's good to have a little more juice for transfer around your local network.

You might decide to download movies onto a USB hard-drive that's connected to the back of your wireless router. Then anybody can stream those movies over the wireless network, as long as your router has streaming capability.

For this reason I'd recommend a simultaneous dual-band router. Dual-band means it can do 2.4ghz band and 5ghz band. Simultaneous means it has two radios and can do both at the same time. Which means people can be web browsing on 2.4ghz and others streaming on 5ghz band with no slow-down.

5ghz is also recommended in close city areas, particularly in flats because most of your neighbours will be using 2.4ghz band. That means there's going to be lots of inteference on that band to slow you down. Maybe making your games lag, your videos jerky and slow down web browsing.

These are just some suggestions to make you aware. You could probably get away with a lot less if you were on a budget.

The Asus RT-N66U is probably 5x peformance and features wise what you need for a 20mb/s ADSL service, but it pays to plan ahead. The weak link can often be someones poor choice of wireless router, even though their ISP performance is ok.

The Netgear R6300 is the generation beyond that, so more than I even need right now.

You could just get the ISP's hub and be happy. It's really up to you how far you want to push the wireless technology and what you're satisfied with performance wise.

(I'm assuming that 'ultrafast wireless' is the 900 Mbps it mentions on the amazon product page)

The Netgear R6300 is waayyy beyond that at up to 1750mbps, 450mbps for 2.4/5 ghz and 1300mbps when running in ac mode. Bear in mind these are theoretical maximums under ideal lab conditions. Actual performance is a lot less.

You'd also be surprised how quickly it adds up. If you get a basic wireless router that can do simultaneous dual-band. Which is hard to find at £50. That's now 300mbps for the 2.4ghz +300 mbps for the 5ghz (i.e. 600mbps), or 300+450 (750mbps), or 450+450 (900mbps).

If you're only using 5ghz band (300mbps) because the interference on 2.4ghz is causing problems. Now take away communication overhead (divide by 2) and 5ghz still has some interference from other sources so maybe the useable throughput is anywhere from 10-120mb/s (120 being in ideal conditions in the same room). In the next room you might get 10-60mb/s. Further away less.

Which is no where near as reliable as 100mbps ethernet.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by nish81:

Their exact words were 'no router hardware is provided by ourselves', so I don't know whether they meant a router in the technically accurate sense of 'we give a modem but not a router' or not. And I didn't ask about a modem in the first place

In general the term Router is used to mean a modem/router if talking about ADSLx, (which is what you are looking at), and a true router if talking about VM Cable or Openreach FTTC. There are occasional exceptions, which we just have to spot when they occur.

In the case of Aquiss I'm sure that for ADSLx connections they mean they don't supply any hardware that is or contains a modem.

On FTTC all users of all ISPs are currently automatically supplied with a VDSL2 modem/router with a single usable Ethernet output port, which is locked into bridge mode so performs as a pure modem. ISPs may or may nor provide a suitable router for FTTC to go with t.

I expect that you already know that even what we call a router with no modem is almost always not just a router anyway . It pretty well always also has in the box an Ethernet 4-port switch and usually a WAP.

Edit - and by the way, you are right, Aquiss have a good reputation here. Just that being purely a reseller of various services they don't qualify for listing on this site.

Thank you for the info. Clarifies the matter, but I think I'll still check with them regardless, I mean it's just a 5minute phone call (or a 1minute email)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

There's a thread here which looks promising http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/entanet/f/4228745-v...

It appears the ISP may be able to suggest a good modem/router.

it's a pity that thread stops short of many recommendations but I'll ask them if they can recommend one too

In reply to a post by MUD_Wizard:

The alternative is to get just an ethernet modem (for cheap) to run the internet service and then buy your own wireless router to run your wireless network. The wireless router is usually the more expensive part of the package anyway.

Then when you change your ISP you can take your wireless router with you no matter whether it's cable (which requires a cable modem) or fibre.
Be aware that some providers still own the equipment that you pay to be installed/delivered.

Wow, thanks for the mega post!

From what you said it sounds like ethernet modem + router is definitely preferable. is there any change in performance or anything if I do this compared to having a combo router? as in, does having an 'extra link' reduce performance compared to having it all in one unit?

I would recommend checking out what alternative ISP's you have in your exchange:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

Here's an example of mine: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WSLAN

Also you can check which cabinet number you're on (or not) from here:
https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/pls/adsl/ADSLChecker.A...

Ah I think I've already settled on Aquiss. There's no fibre or cable available to my postcode and I'm on a line directly to the exchange, not to cabinet, so that kinda sucks for future fibre

Your smartphones and tablet may do 5ghz band. They'll certainly be 802.11n. So I'd recommend at least an N class wireless router to match the performance of your devices. 802.11g is much slower (54mbps) but you could end up with 1mb-20mb/s performance out of that, due to communication overhead and inteference.

Also because you're going to be using a few devices simultaneously, even though your internet may be only 20mb/s, in order to make it work well it's good to have a little more juice for transfer around your local network.

You might decide to download movies onto a USB hard-drive that's connected to the back of your wireless router. Then anybody can stream those movies over the wireless network, as long as your router has streaming capability.

For this reason I'd recommend a simultaneous dual-band router. Dual-band means it can do 2.4ghz band and 5ghz band. Simultaneous means it has two radios and can do both at the same time. Which means people can be web browsing on 2.4ghz and others streaming on 5ghz band with no slow-down.

5ghz is also recommended in close city areas, particularly in flats because most of your neighbours will be using 2.4ghz band. That means there's going to be lots of inteference on that band to slow you down. Maybe making your games lag, your videos jerky and slow down web browsing.

These are just some suggestions to make you aware. You could probably get away with a lot less if you were on a budget.

The Asus RT-N66U is probably 5x peformance and features wise what you need for a 20mb/s ADSL service, but it pays to plan ahead. The weak link can often be someones poor choice of wireless router, even though their ISP performance is ok.

The Netgear R6300 is the generation beyond that, so more than I even need right now.

You could just get the ISP's hub and be happy. It's really up to you how far you want to push the wireless technology and what you're satisfied with performance wise.

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

In reply to a post by nish81:

Wow! sounds good. Well with my desktop it would be an Ethernet connection, so I guess the 802.11n/etc thing doesn't apply to that right.

Sure. You can get a USB wifi adapter that plugs into either your laptop or your desktop if you want.

My laptop will be the sony vaio pro 13 (once I get it delivered in a couple of weeks!) which is 802.11n if I'm right, although I'm not sure whether it's dual band or not.

Looks like a good ultra-book from the spec. 802.11n wifi but doesn't say about dual-band. Maybe but probably not dual-band.

If you need a dual-band USB adapter:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-USB-N53-Wireless-Dongle...

like I mentioned above, my connection will only be 20Mbps ADSL to start, but if fibre does become available for me I'd upgrade in a heartbeat.

Yeah, they're also trialing "vectoring" (noise cancelling technology) for VDSL2 which will improve FTTC (fibre) speeds up to 200mb/s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkVmej4urx4

Thanks - I'll check out the reviews, but if getting it from the german amazon is a bad idea then I have to pay £130ish for it, in which case it's probably not ideal for me.

I really think almost no-one needs an 802.11ac router right now. Mainly because most of the other technology (phones, consoles, tablets etc) don't support ac. They can only use the 802.11n speeds that they support. The standard is still in draft, it's that new.

Also I'll be living in a 2bed flat which isn't really that big, and the main heavy use of the internet (where really fast speeds are needed) will be over ethernet on my desktop. on all other devices, having like 8Mbps would be more than enough. so I don't know if I need the power of this router now!

That's fair enough. What you mainly get in the higher end routers apart from speed is extra features (like multimedia, USB ports etc) and options for doing anything you want with it.

Here's a router with most of the features you might want in a flat:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006B3BM9I/ref=ox...

It's not simultaneous dual-band though. It only has one radio. So you need to turn off the 2.4ghz wifi to turn on the 5ghz wifi. Just switch bands. Instead of having two wifi networks.

Compare with the features for the Asus and see if you miss any:
http://uk.asus.com/Networks/Wireless_Routers/RTN66U/

Most high-end routers have gigabit ports for ethernet, so as long as your computer has a gigabit network card (10/100/1000) you'll have no problems there. Just make sure your cable is at least cat5e or cat6, so that it supports gigabit speeds.

Ah I see, just saw this bit, then yeah I'm not sure this one is for me, seems a bit too high end.

Gigabit ports are a must these days. You don't want to have to re-buy all your equipment in a couple of years.

In reply to a post by nish81:

Wow, thanks for the mega post!

From what you said it sounds like ethernet modem + router is definitely preferable. is there any change in performance or anything if I do this compared to having a combo router? as in, does having an 'extra link' reduce performance compared to having it all in one unit?

You're welcome. No, it's often better to have two separate devices (unless they don't like each other). Single units (hubs, combo routers etc) often share some CPU power, which means when you stress them they may not perform as well as two separate units. Really depends on the hardware though.

Ah I think I've already settled on Aquiss. There's no fibre or cable available to my postcode and I'm on a line directly to the exchange, not to cabinet, so that kinda sucks for future fibre

4G USB modem plugged into the back of your Asus. They're already rolling out 50mb/s and soon up to 100mb/s. You can get unlimited data on Three.

You can still get FTTP even if you're not on an FTTC cabinet but obviously that's hugely expensive at the moment: https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Products/Br...

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

Yeah the Asus will probably future proof you for about 5 years. It will work with anything with an ethernet port. So yes fibre, cable etc. If you were able to upgrade to fibre on Aquiss they'd give you a VDSL modem. You just plug that into the wall and plug your Asus into the modem and you're good to go. Theoretically. lol.

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

ADSL modems have been around for quite a long time, so the technology is pretty sound even if the model is cheap.
I'd ask Aquiss or post on their forums if I were you to see what they and their users recommend.

Note: Aquiss recommend a modem that supports ADSL2+ Annex M if you're going for the 2.2mbps upload (option 3 or 4) in order to get the performance:
http://www.aquiss.net/broadband-unlimited.php

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Especially as I'd have thought you would have known that Aquiss aren't on the tbb (limited) list of providers for rating .

I wasn't (and I'm still not) so sure about that.

Certainly, as resellers, they don't get a separate entry on the Broadband Providers page but that doesn't necessarily mean they're not detected (by IP range) on the Rate your provider one.

As I generally prefer not to state "facts" unless I can back them up I phrased my post carefully, and it is accurate- if they're not detected, zero ratings is not enough


eta: The position is further complicated by the fact that some providers who are included on the list can also supply connectivity via companies other than BT if available at the exchange (eg TalkTalk, Be/O2) and are hence also acting as resellers...

Edited by billford (Wed 03-Jul-13 09:04:21)

Nish,

I will give you a call mid-morning with some advice on a router/modem (the units we recommend are combined into one).

Once you've talked to your ISP and decided on your wireless router. Then comes the hard part. Getting the ADSL Ethernet Modem to talk to your ISP and your wireless router.

For cable it's just plugin and off we go. ADSL is not quite as easy.

I said you just connect the wireless router or computer to the Ethernet port of the modem and it all just works. Well, not quite. For some modems with easy setup wizards that might be true. Others can be a little more tricky. Then there's the router settings.

PPPoA/PPPoE/Bridged mode:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/hardware/reviews/4-lin...

Btw, that article is probably a bit old.

Anyway, your ISP should be able to help you with the setup of your modem.

Going for bridged mode would be simplest initially and then PPPoE later.

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Jul-13 07:14:07)

In reply to a post by nish81:

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

The N66U will work great with FTTC or Cable in the future (although it won't max out a FTTP connection).

Now that i'm on FTTC i have a Draytek Vigor 120 ADSL modem lying around that i won't be using again. PM me your address and i can pop it in the post for you tomorrow.

It'll work plug 'n' play with the RT-N66U. Just connect the modem to the phone line, connect an ethernet cable from the modem to the router and use PPPoE in the router with the username/password Aquiss supplies to you.

unfortunately I can't reply properly atm as I have to dash but thanks for the advice everyone, I will reply later!

In reply to a post by rhetherington:

In reply to a post by nish81:

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

The N66U will work great with FTTC or Cable in the future (although it won't max out a FTTP connection).

Now that i'm on FTTC i have a Draytek Vigor 120 ADSL modem lying around that i won't be using again. PM me your address and i can pop it in the post for you tomorrow.

It'll work plug 'n' play with the RT-N66U. Just connect the modem to the phone line, connect an ethernet cable from the modem to the router and use PPPoE in the router with the username/password Aquiss supplies to you.

wow, thanks! I've PMed you my address, let me know if I can recompense you in any way or anything, the model you specified looks like a pretty good one

The N66U will work great with FTTC or Cable in the future (although it won't max out a FTTP connection).

Now that i'm on FTTC i have a Draytek Vigor 120 ADSL modem lying around that i won't be using again. PM me your address and i can pop it in the post for you tomorrow.

It'll work plug 'n' play with the RT-N66U. Just connect the modem to the phone line, connect an ethernet cable from the modem to the router and use PPPoE in the router with the username/password Aquiss supplies to you.

wow, thanks! I've PMed you my address, let me know if I can recompense you in any way or anything, the model you specified looks like a pretty good one

Yes, the Draytek Vigor 120 would be an excellent choice! It provides a PPPoA connection on the ISP side and PPPoE which your computer and router talk:
http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/vigor120.html

So none of the overheads of connecting via PPPoE to your ISP.

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Jul-13 17:15:31)

Will the Vigor 120 be a good match for the chipset in the ISP's DSLAM? If not, it can affect the speed and reliability.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Will the Vigor 120 be a good match for the chipset in the ISP's DSLAM? If not, it can affect the speed and reliability.

You're referring to the syncing issue, a problem that was unique to New Zealand and Italy apparently and was fixed in a new firmware (see the comments):
http://nicegear.co.nz/routers/draytek-vigor-120-adsl...

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Jul-13 18:42:56)

No, it's a well known issue on ADSL.

I posted the Draytek out this morning. I'll PM you my Paypal details and if you want to send me something that's fine, and if not that's fine too.

I have boxes of stuff i've accumulated over the years just sitting around doing nothing. I should probably put it all up on ebay, but i'm just too lazy.

If you don't have them already you'll need to get an RJ11 cable and ADSL filters or faceplate since i couldn't find any spare.

In reply to a post by rhetherington:

I posted the Draytek out this morning. I'll PM you my Paypal details and if you want to send me something that's fine, and if not that's fine too.

I have boxes of stuff i've accumulated over the years just sitting around doing nothing. I should probably put it all up on ebay, but i'm just too lazy.

If you don't have them already you'll need to get an RJ11 cable and ADSL filters or faceplate since i couldn't find any spare.

Thanks! Just to clarify - as well as the cable, I only need one of the filter or faceplate? Not both right? And then combined with the asus n66u, that should be everything I need to get up and running?

You need a filter for every phone socket that has something connected to it (phones, fax machine, dialup modem, etc).

The faceplate is just a filter in the form of a replacement socket faceplate. They also usually filter any extensions connected to them.

So yes, either the filters or the faceplate, not both.

Other than that you'll have everything you need once your router comes unless you want to connect multiple devices via ethernet. Routers usually come with one ethernet cable in the box, and i included one in the package with the Draytek.

Once you get the Draytek and the faceplate then you can connect your computer by ethernet to the modem and use it straight away.

You'll need your ISP login details of course.

Just google for how to setup a PPPoE connection for your computer O/S, but it's dead simple.

e.g. How to connect to the internet via PPPoE in windows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmrLW4kZmNo

Verify that you have an internet connection and everything is working ok.



Then once you get your Asus router:

Asus RT-N66U setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuGzDBx6BAc


Asus RT-N66U wireless setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4M-21NmP3A

or

Asus RT-N66U wired setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wliQCyKCCVM


Guide to setting up various aspects of the Asus router (which shows you the PPPoE settings on the WAN page):
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/hardware/reviews/76-as...


Asus RT-N66U online manual (in case you need it):
http://www.manualowl.com/m/Asus/RT-N66U/Manual/241893

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

This is just my opinion, but to me, a reseller buys off a wholesaler who has bought a package from BT Wholesale or an LLU provider. Chances are you'll end up on BT or TalkTalk and if anything goes wrong, you'll have to persuade your reseller to contact their wholesaler and get them to contact their wholesaler, when you could have gone directly to BT or TT and been a customer with direct access to the support team.

Too many layers.

Oh for goodness sake.
I prefer to use a reseller than one of the larger companies. I was with ADSl24 on their cable and wireless network, great service, and a better connection than what BT could give me.

i must admit if they was going to put me on the Talk Talk network I think I would not have bothered. but if there is a cable and wireless network in the area, then a reseller is great.

Saying that my time before on ADSL24 on the BT network was ok as well.

The only problem with resellers is when it comes to FTTC, they are a bit pricey.


i know a couple of people using resellers and on the cable and wireless network and because of the speed they are getting they have no plans to go to FTTC.

so are you sorted now?

this is the only downfall of a re-seller for new people, you got to sort out your own hardware, but plenty of people to help.

Nice of rhetherington to send you a unit, Draytek are ok,

i prefer to use my own equipment anyway, for a start I don't get my ISp poking inside it it trying to update it, which can and does go wrong.

was just going to update - got the draytek today, big thanks again to rhetherington! also picked up the asus n66u and the rest of the hardware is in the mail. installation set for july 16th, so it all looks good so far - i'll post again when everything is up and running.

thanks again to everyone for all your advice! i'd have probably ended up screwed without you guys