NTE5C Quality

Just a question for those that use/install the NTE5C faceplate.

They look a bit cheap and flimsy, are the internals as cheap? Reason I ask is my newly installed line is playing up and to quote JohnLewisBB:

'I have tested your line today and the results indicate a potential issue with the equipment connected to the phone line.

Our tests show a loop on the line, which is basically a short circuit on the line. This could be a faulty piece of equipment or something breaking the loop such as something going through the line.

To rule out your equipment as the cause, we would like to see if the fault is still present with your equipment disconnected from the line.

Please contact us when all the phone sockets in the property are unplugged and if possible please remove the faceplate of the master socket which will disconnect the internal wiring. We can then retest your line and proceed with our investigation.'

I've not been home yet to remove the faceplate - but just wondering if these things can fail in a just over a month of been installed and not touched since.

They could fail, but the chance is very, very unlikely. I would not say they are cheap, but are made at minimal cost to meet the technical requirements and a demonstrable lifetime - mainly because the public keep demanding lower prices so over engineering which was the case a few years back is no longer. For example - self tapping screws into plastic rather than a threaded engineering screw into a brass insert may save 4p in material and 6p in assembly cost, but put that in 1,000,000 devices and there is an £100,000 saving.

By removing that and everything connected, they can prove the line status and if that is fine, then a retest with just the face plate connected - no devices and no extension wiring will tell if the faceplate is at fault. After that, any issues would normally be on your equipment or wiring.

Thanks for that - I'm fairly confident that the fault is either the router or the line as nothing else is connected. Pity as it was great for the first few weeks!

So, let them test the line, then test with just the faceplate and if those are OK, then attach just the "router" which I assume contains a modem. Then test yourself and if there is a failure it could be either the device, cable or the remote possibility of the actual NTE5C connector socket (extremely rare, but they can get damaged).

I must admit, I think these 5c�s are as cheap as chips, not a fan at all.

As for it causing a loop fault, I doubt it. If the test is showing CA loop with everything unplugged ... get them to call out Openreach.

Are you fed overhead ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I must admit, I think these 5c�s are as cheap as chips, not a fan at all.

But they meet spec! It really is down to cost cutting that is being forced on OR ... even a change in plastic type can save a penny or two and just think how many are used in a year ...

Agreed, the new back boxes are rubbish too, the NTE's do not screw in flush to them, they are barely rigid.

This shaving away at costs is a false economy in the long run IMO.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Agreed, the new back boxes are rubbish too, the NTE's do not screw in flush to them, they are barely rigid.

This shaving away at costs is a false economy in the long run IMO.

It probably is a false economy but the drivers are not OR on BT Group but outside bodies who are forcing up front prices down.

They are too short sighted to see that installing a £1.50 unit that lasts 2 years is cheaper than installing two 75p units that each last just a year.

They are too short sighted to see that installing a £1.50 unit that lasts 2 years is cheaper than installing two 75p units that each last just a year.

Tell it like it is.

Yes, the cable comes overhead from the pole. It's the same cable as my working Zen connection - a fairly new(ish) cable compare to the ancient old 3 core wire which originally was connected.

I'll do the testing as required later when I'm back home.

Yes, the cable comes overhead from the pole. It's the same cable as my working Zen connection -

Do I recall you posting before about 'would they use the second pair in the dropwire for my new line" ?

(Unlikely that I have remembered this right, but wonders never cease)

Sounds about right, but since then I've had to deal with Microsoft Office 365 support so nothing anymore makes sense.

Appears the line checks out o.k. But I did connect a phone to the line and got an interupted dial tone. it's been escalated to elsewhere in Johnlewis/Plusnet support.

Interrupted dial tone is normally associated with BTs 1571 answer service and maybe similar from other providers. It is unlikely to be te casue of any line problems.

Did you get the line tested with te face plate replaced? I so, what was the result of that.

They tested the line when nothing was plugged in and it came back as o.k. - Interesting what you mention about 1571 - despite me not selecting the service it was enabled. I've turned that off so that might clear what I thought was a line issue.

/edit I dialed 1571 and got a message from a company offering an oven clean [censored]? Deleted the message and the line tone went back to normal. I'll wait to see what JohnLewis/Plusnet come back with about the issue they originally found.

Edited by kebabselector (Sat 30-Sep-17 00:33:14)

It seems that the faceplate might be the suspicious item. Plusnet ask me to leave the router plugged in via the line filter for 72 hours to confirm. During my other testing the line was fine, but after I plugged the faceplate back in it appears to be dropping.

Would Openreach post me a new face plate to save sending an engineer?

To be honest if it's just the faceplate I don't have an issue leaving it in the master socket as the line isn't used for anything else - and hopefully now Fibre is in the design stage for my cab it might be sorted in the next 12 months and I'll disconnect it anyway.

Line is testing out o.k. and they've asked me to refit the faceplate.

Was told if the faceplate is faulty I'll have to pop to the shops and get another one, apparently the Faceplate isn't covered by Openreach, just the line upto the master socket - I questioned that as it's a new line installation and then was told it's got a years warranty - is this right?

Almost sounds as if Plusnet/JL support are making it up as they go along.

Basic consumer rights override anything a firm tries to suggest, so a years guarantee would be the minimum reasonable

Re-fits faceplate, Plusnet/JL claim it's stable - this evening it drops from 6/7mbps to 4mbps.

What a load of rubbish.

Will await their further instructions, I've said I've had enough of chasing them up and requested a cancellation as the line hasn't performed since I've been connected - I can't image they'll let me walk away without penalty but you never know.

Edited by kebabselector (Thu 19-Oct-17 21:02:18)

Sync speed drops or results from speed tests?

Sync speeds dropping.

At around 20:30

1 - Product name: John Lewis Router
2 - Serial number: N7171031V001372
3 - Firmware version: 7.275.6_F2704N_JOHN_LEWIS
4 - Board version: F@ST2704N
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 0 days 00:01:10
7 - Data rate: 864/4064
8 - Maximum data rate: 1096/7172
9 - Noise margin: 10.0/18.4
10 - Line attenuation: 30.0/44.0
12 - Data sent/received: 148.9K/955.1K

At 22:45:

1 - Product name: John Lewis Router
2 - Serial number: N7171031V001372
3 - Firmware version: 7.275.6_F2704N_JOHN_LEWIS
4 - Board version: F@ST2704N
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 0 days 00:05:13
7 - Data rate: 544/640
8 - Maximum data rate: 756/444
9 - Noise margin: 11.0/6.4
10 - Line attenuation: 30.0/44.0
12 - Data sent/received: 6.1K/25.0K

When it works it's usually around this speed:

1 - Product name: John Lewis Router
2 - Serial number: N7171031V001372
3 - Firmware version: 7.275.6_F2704N_JOHN_LEWIS
4 - Board version: F@ST2704N
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 0 days 00:34:56
7 - Data rate: 832/6976
8 - Maximum data rate: 1080/7312
9 - Noise margin: 11.0/8.8
10 - Line attenuation: 30.0/44.0
12 - Data sent/received: 654.3K/15.4M

I attempted a TBB Speedtest:

Welcome to the new version of the thinkbroadband speed test.

We encountered a problem
Error Code: 4134 (Suspect download behaviour)
Check you have an Internet connection and try again
retry
Cancel Test
This error occurs when we see no data or there are anomalies.
Check your connection is not busy doing something else.

Turns out the internet connection has now gone completely.

Edited by kebabselector (Thu 19-Oct-17 23:05:32)

At 22:45:

1 - Product name: John Lewis Router
2 - Serial number: N7171031V001372
3 - Firmware version: 7.275.6_F2704N_JOHN_LEWIS
4 - Board version: F@ST2704N
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 0 days 00:05:13
7 - Data rate: 544/640
8 - Maximum data rate: 756/444
9 - Noise margin: 11.0/6.4 Given noise margin at 6db, it indicates the line has no extra capacity, so the line is performing as good as it can under the circumstances. Almost definitely points at a fault, should be way over 444kbps at 44db attenuation and 6db noise margin
10 - Line attenuation: 30.0/44.0
12 - Data sent/received: 6.1K/25.0K

My advice - formally raise a complaint in writing (not phone).
https://www.johnlewisbroadband.com/support/customer-...

Thanks, for the link. The Max data rate has been going up/down all night - so something isn't right.

I�d agree with your diagnosis ... and at the start of the thread weren�t they mentioning their detection of a loop condition on the line ? There�s iffyness on the pair somewhere I suspect.

Thanks for the info. I'll see what they have to say - calling is quicker, the online messages get answered about 3-4 days afterwards.

After a reboot, things seem stable - still waiting for Plusnet to come back to be see what they are going to do. I'm currently in the 72 hour waiting window for someone to action the call!!

They've checked the line again and every 15 minutes there is a consistant error appearing. They are now getting someone to come out and check the fault out tomorrow (which is handy as I'm off).

Edited by kebabselector (Tue 24-Oct-17 14:07:14)

Fingers crossed you don�t get some �tick the boxes and run� noobie....

Politely earwig over their shoulder and watch the PQ test results come in, ask them to explain each of the results , and don�t be fobbed off with �It�s all green ticks mate�.

I�m hoping the CP has actually booked an SFI visit, not some cop out CDTA task.

Good luck.

Hopefully it's sorted now. The engineer ran a line check and it was displaying a few crosses. He popped to the local cabinet and found the connection to be corroded - he said as soon as he touched the wire it broke off. I'll keep monitoring it, but at the moment it seems fine.

It's been a week and all is well, so looks as if the old Cab connection was the issue. £30 compensation for lack of service is much welcomed.

Fingers crossed -

A. That�s yours sorted.

B. I pick up some nice �snippy� faults like that next week.

I spoke too soon.....

1 - Product name: John Lewis Router
2 - Serial number: N7171031V001372
3 - Firmware version: 7.275.6_F2704N_JOHN_LEWIS
4 - Board version: F@ST2704N
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 0 days 06:29:17
7 - Data rate: 800/736
8 - Maximum data rate: 1044/3684
9 - Noise margin: 11.0/35.7
10 - Line attenuation: 29.5/44.0
12 - Data sent/received: 3.8M/69.7M


On the phone now to cancel it. Currently been told I can walk away after a fault for 8 weeks, but this one has only been 6 weeks so far.

/edit - They spoke to a manager and cancelled the service

Hopefully my fibre will be sorted soon, had an email from the chief engineer the other day stating subject to civils etc the build is on track for an installation before the end of the year.

Edited by kebabselector (Sat 04-Nov-17 20:47:49)

If you are talking about FTTC then the copper from you to the cabinet is unchanged. Only the connection at the cabinet is different.

If you are talking FTTP, then fair enough .

Edit - I've just noticed your sig. FTTC.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 04-Nov-17 21:28:14)

Since part way through the thread I have been wondering about your DSL cable and its connectors at each end. Its own and the sockets it goes into.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you are talking about FTTC then the copper from you to the cabinet is unchanged. Only the connection at the cabinet is different.

If you are talking FTTP, then fair enough .

Edit - I've just noticed your sig. FTTC.

It's been fairly good timing, was only going to keep the Johnlewis connection for the year as FTTC should be with us by August (when the contact was up) - Still saves me cancelling it now. I was always going to switch my Zen account over to Fibre so what happens to the JL cable I don't really care about anymore.

Thanks for all that have commented etc, you've all done more than John Lewis / Plusnet have done since the August install!

Edited by kebabselector (Mon 06-Nov-17 00:25:18)

I'm not sure I made myself clear.

If the problem with your connection is between you and the cabinet, then moving to FTTC instead of ADSLx isn't going to fix it.

I see, I did have two lines, but the Zen service has generally always been good and available - that's the one that will be upgraded once FTTC turns up.

The issues I've had have only been on the second line/BB Service.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I must admit, I think these 5c�s are as cheap as chips, not a fan at all.

If I had found myself rewiring a newly installed master socket to shift its location today, which obviously I didn't, I might have noticed how utterly dreadful the NTE5C was.

Hypothetically, there didn't seem to be anywhere to use a cable tie to secure the incoming cable to the back of the rear half.

At least the line will only ever be used for voice as there's FTTP right next to it.

Yep, told ya so - and the lack of somewhere to secure the cable to is indicative of its cheapness ...

Many NTE�s are at skirting level, have you tried to terminate extension wiring ? It�s a huge faff, often end up using off cuts into the terminations then crimping on to the actual wires after, just so you can actually see what you are doing ....

Never mind, as long as the bean counters are happy ......

Hypothetically I agree, I would have noticed if I had removed it and replaced it with a blanking plate after cancelling JL BB.

Yeah, I'm not too keen on the design of the NTE5C/master socket 5C, but performance wise, I haven't noticed any impacts.

The telephone line was a second line in the property and it was installed by a Quinn contractor a few days after the first line had gone live and a couple of hours after one of your colleagues had installed FTTP. He was top notch and checked to see if the phone line install had already been allocated as a job because he was happy to do that as well if it hadn't.

Well, Quinn got the job and it's a good thing I was there. The 'engineer' was all in favour of disconnecting the existing newly installed line so he could use its pair.

Once I persuaded him he needed to tone to find the second pair he told me he had to bring the cable out though the same hole in the plasterboard as the original phone socket even though there was a blank single gang faceplate with an empty back box right next to it.

Apparently he wasn't allowed to mess with anything like that so I pulled the cable through for him. Trying to fit the new master socket he then pushed the M3.5 nuts in the back box mounting ears out so they fell in the cavity.