FTTC Installation Questions

My exchange is due to be FTTC enabled on 31st December. It could be earlier because Open Reach are swarming all over the village right now.

I have read that the vDSL modem has to plugged into the master socket and that two power sockets are needed nearby. Is this true?

If so there might be a snag. My master socket is in a tiny front hall which is basically an enclosed porch stuck on the outside of the house. The nearest power point is 5 metres away, the router and computers are 25 metres away; any additional wiring would involve drilling through walls etc.

Might it be cheaper to have the master socket moved from the front of the house round to the computer room? The external phone line is underground.

Also will either of my existing routers, Netgear DG834PN and Speedtouch 546i V6, work with the FTTC modem?

you will need 2 power sockets but i do know that bt openreach will use a data extension cable if needed and will run from main phone socket to your router and pc 25 metres away i think they might charge you for moving master socket going by the bt openreach info .

hopefully others on here will know more on that part

Hi ffox,

I am also having my FTTC installed on the 13th so will try and answer some of your questions as far as I know. The vDSL is usually installed in the master socket but BT can install an extension of up to 30metres providing it isn't too difficult to do this depending on the layout of your house. You will need one power socket for your vDSL modem and one for your router.

In regards to the router I believe it has to be a DSL router that supports PPPOE and has a Gigabit WAN/LAN connections as well. I have just bought a Edimax BR-6574n as my existing router won't support FTTC.

Hope this helps.

In terms of router - you need to look for devices labelled cable/dsl routers (often shown as suitable for use with Virgin Media cable broadband).

On the Gigabit WAN ports - still very rare, as long as a 100Mbps WAN Ethernet port, and supports more than G wireless speeds, chances are that the WAN to LAN routing will cope with 40Meg FTTC.

Thanks.

Will BT install the extension if they are not my ISP?

Any recommended routers?

Ffox,

I believe BT will install the extension regardless of the ISP you go with.

In regards to the router I have gone for the Edimax BR-6574n due to its good reviews I have been reading and its reasonable price @ £50. If you have a look in the DSL Hardware section someone has purchased the Zyxel NBG4604 and they seem to be happy with it. I have also seen a few of the FTTC providers recommend the Zyxel NBG460N.

Once I am up and running I will post up a review for the Edimax BR-6574n.

In reply to a post by ffox:

Thanks.

Will BT install the extension if they are not my ISP?

Don't know, but I suspect so. I had an install this week, and my ISP is IDNet. The BT man was from BT Openreach, who are not themselves an end user ISP. BT Infinity is a BT Retail product. You only need one power socket for the BTO VDSL modem, the reference to the second socket is for the router.

In reply to a post by ffox:

Any recommended routers?

I was planning to use a Zoom 4110 I had lying about, but in the end I bought a Netgear WGR614UK £29.97 from Amazon. It's very good, and superbly flexible on the LAN and W-LAN side.

Edited by broadbandjockey (Sun 03-Oct-10 17:47:16)

i also heard that that you may only need one power socket if you just run the vdsl moderm straight into the pc . but this way you wont have option of being wirelss

In reply to a post by Johnct:

i also heard that that you may only need one power socket if you just run the vdsl moderm straight into the pc . but this way you wont have option of being wirelss

No, and also there will be no NAT routing, so a decent and watertight software firewall on the PC is essential.

Correct on the data extension.

Openreach sells the same service to all ISP's, it does not matter if its BT Infinity or Joe who sells broadband from his car repair shop.

Hope you don't mind me butting in but I have a question, taken from Zens website it says the following.

In reference to www.zen.co.uk/business/broadband/fibre-broadband/fibre-broadband-fa...:

The VDSL modem will need to be within 1.5m of the face-plate and close to a power-supply otherwise an extension kit will be required which can be provided to you.

Why does the VDSL2 modem have to be within 1.5m of the master socket? Can you not just run a long network cable from the master socket to the modem so it can be moved to a different location?

'Why does the VDSL2 modem have to be within 1.5m of the master socket?'

The RJ11 cable provided with the modem is 1.5m long !

'Can you not just run a long network cable from the master socket to the modem so it can be moved to a different location?'

That's what the data extension kit does.

Ah right, so it still connects via RJ11, I was under the impression the new faceplate BT fits, uses a RJ45 port.

So I should be fine with the 10m RJ11 cable I have got, because its all under the floor boards (routers upstairs)

So much conflicting information about at the moment, hard to know what to believe.

Edited by Matt182 (Tue 05-Oct-10 00:08:02)

Like all filter faceplates, the new one will accept a RJ11 or a RJ45 plug for the router connection. So long as the cable you have fitted is good quality it should be fine. If fact if you have a filter faceplate fitted now, that will be fine with VDSL.

As always, and if you have a power socket close to the master socket, the best way would be to install the VDSL modem at the master socket and run a network cable to the new router.

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-Oct-10 00:49:10)

In reply to a post by systemx:

Like all filter faceplates, the new one will accept a RJ11 or a RJ45 plug for the router connection. So long as the cable you have fitted is good quality it should be fine. If fact if you have a filter faceplate fitted now, that will be fine with VDSL.

As always, and if you have a power socket close to the master socket, the best way would be to install the VDSL modem at the master socket and run a network cable to the new router.

The important thing is, is that the cable that runs between the master socket and the VDSL modem is twisted pair, to enable any noise that it might be picked up to be cancelled at the terminating end. CAT 5 and CW1308 etc employ twisted pairs, really the 1.5m RJ11 cable that is supplied should be too, to ensure maximum performance, but it isn't, it's just cheap 'flat' stuff. For a 1.5 metre run there's unlikely to be any measurable degradation though.

I've read that the engineer can route the vDSL extension round doorframes and along skirting boards but will not drill through walls. If this is true, then the extension option is out for me. Does the same thing apply to moving the master socket?

If so I have a possible solution - the extension socket in the computer room is fed by Cat 5 from the existing master socket. Could the engineer do a bit of crafty rewiring by fitting a terminal block and connecting the incoming wires to one of the twisted pairs in the Cat 5 cable and the other end of that pair to the new master in the computer room? Then perhaps the other extension, close to the existing master, could be fed back from the new master via another of the twisted pairs?

I don't know how BT will take to it, but all they install is a filtered faceplate at the master socket.

Once the engineer has installed the service at the master socket and gone, if you were to take off this new faceplate and fit the standard one back on, you can simply use any existing wiring you have to your extension socket and plug the modem in there. Just ensure you still have filters on all other sockets/devices etc.

Nothing special about the new faceplate they fit, it just provides an rj11 socket and filters any existing extension wiring. Take out that faceplate and your set up can be as you have it now with ADSL. As long as you have decent extension wiring (cat 5 is great...) then there should be no real detrimental loss to the signal if the modem is on the extension socket.

Be prepared to plug it back in to the master socket if you ever call BT out of course

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Oct-10 16:51:54)

In reply to a post by ffox:

If so I have a possible solution - the extension socket in the computer room is fed by Cat 5 from the existing master socket.

Why not fit a RJ11 or RJ45 connector to the end of the Cat5 and plug it into the BT socket, and put the VDSL modem at the other end?

Thinking about it, I really would prefer to have the master socket moved from the front hall to the computer room at the back. That is the logical place for it - accessible power points, short leads to modems/routers/PCs, and easy access to the test socket.

I don't mind paying for it as long as it can be done without wires going round door frames and along skirting boards. My idea of using the existing CAT5 was to avoid unnecessary external wiring and wall drilling. Do you think it would work, and would Openreach do it?

You could have a search of the BT Price List: http://www.bt.com/pricing/index.htm

Not sure if it will help.

In reply to a post by ffox:

Thinking about it, I really would prefer to have the master socket moved from the front hall to the computer room at the back. That is the logical place for it - accessible power points, short leads to modems/routers/PCs, and easy access to the test socket.

I don't mind paying for it as long as it can be done without wires going round door frames and along skirting boards. My idea of using the existing CAT5 was to avoid unnecessary external wiring and wall drilling. Do you think it would work, and would Openreach do it?

When my Infinity was installed, the engineer moved the master socket from my hallway to the lounge at no cost.

I would imagine as long as you don't require a lot of internal wiring, relocating the socket shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Sounds good - thank you.

In reply to a post by lumuah:

When my Infinity was installed, the engineer moved the master socket from my hallway to the lounge at no cost.

one off helpful engineer

So....supposing, theoretically of course, that a problem develops and openreach come out to repair theretical problem, ..and find faceplate gone for a walk and filters fitted. Customer says slow speeds , or whatever, and opernreach engineer says ok at master socket. customer will not get any further as other wiring belongs to them !

PS just for info, nte5 can be moved to be near pc, on install, so theoretically, why change what works ?

Its not the bottom half that changes but the top of the faceplate.

As such that remains Openreach property, and with VDSL2 it would be chargeable immediately if this VDSL2 SSFP goes missing.

Hi,

Where does the VDSL modem fit in? I'm getting BT Infinity on Monday and I assumed it would be just like a typical ADSL setup and I would be able to just swap out my current router which is on the 2nd floor of the house with the BT Homehub. So basically right now I have a long RJ45 (I think thats what its called) coming out of the microfilter that comes out of what I'm guessing is the master socket if I'm understanding all the lingo and going into my upstairs router.

Assuming I have power sockets by my master socket will there be any particular problems introduced with the VDSL modem (I don't want to have to move stuff downstairs) and is there any particular reason I couldn't have the VDSL modem upstairs? Does FTTC require a microfilter and if so does the VDSL modem come before or after it?

Thanks,
Jim

the bt openreach engineer will fit a special master socket with built in filter - this can be extended up to 30 meters.
the vdsl modem will connect to this socket with a broadbad cable (RJ11) and it needs a power socket also.
then u will need to run an ethernet cable (RJ45) from the ethernet port in the back of the modem to the input ethernet port in the back of the wireless router.
then you can connect to your computer either wirelessly or by ethernet from back of router to ethernet port in back of computer.

Ok so currently I have a long RJ11 cable running from the microfilter to the top of the house, would it then be possible for me to have this going from the new master socket then upstairs to the VDSL modem or is there a reason for it to be in close proximity to the socket?

Thanks,
Jim

They will not re-use the existing RJ11 cable (especially if it is not twisted pair).

The VDSL modem can be sited up to 30m of cable away from the master socket, but every meter of cable with VDSL can reduce sync speed, i.e. it is sensistive to cable length a lot more than ADSL2+.

NOTE: If you existing router is plugged into the ADSL line directly, then this router will not work with the VDSL2 modem. You need a different router, one with a WAN Ethernet interface - usually labelled as suitable for Virgin Media cable services in the UK shops. The retail chains appear not to be aware of VDSL products yet.

That interesting, I asked this question and was told something different. Thanks for sharing that information

So its better to have the VDSL2 modem as close to the master socket as possible and then replace the RJ11 cable with a network cable back to the router.

Very much so

This is all basic information on the BT Infinity FAQ site.
I suggest you go and read it.

you wont have anything to worry about.

a couple of points........

star wiring has to be engineered out.

if you currently plug in your modem at the mater socket then excellent, install will be easy peasy.

if you dont the wiring will have to either be re-arranged or a data extension kit fitted fom the master to where your modem is, it can be more then 30m, the reason 30m is mentioned as that is the longest kit carried in the van, in some extreme cases they have been joined together.

the nte can be moved in some cases, it is far easier 2 staple 2pr than it is cleating cat5.

in addition to your 'generic vdsl router' you require a little modem that s supplied by openreach.

from jumpering in the vdsl to getting a signature takes on average 2 - 3 hours.

anything else, please feel free to contact me

My FTTC install is due next week and I'm trying to work out the options for locating the VDSL modem.

Currently the ADSL modem is upstairs, off a traditional phone extension cable / socket. The wiring is 'sound' as in there was no appreciable difference to the stats when the ADSL modem was in the master socket test socket, or on the end of the extension.

Would it be possible to switch these round and have the master socket upstairs? Or does the master socket have to be the termination point for the cable from the street pole, which currently enters the house downstairs?

Or can the cable from the pole be extended and enter the house via an external wall upstairs perhaps?

Many thanks for any suggestions!

Or does the master socket have to be the termination point for the cable from the street pole, which currently enters the house downstairs?

I had Infinity installed on 24/9. The engineer tested the speed at an upstairs extension socket - it was the same as at the master socket downstairs. So, he rewired the existing cable (twisted pair, but not Cat5) so the master socket is now upstairs and the extension downstairs.

Nicely done!

Just had my install done and the Open Reach guy was great. He tested the speed at the phone extension point upstairs in the office and installed the new master socket there instead. What was the master socket downstairs he switched out for a telephone extension point. Much neater than running a Cat.5 extension kit around the house and being forced to site the VDSL modem downstairs. Really pleased with the job

And BT checker estimate of 26Mb was definitely conservative, speedtest.net results are 35-36Mb download for the few I've tried.

I do hope he didn't back feed the extension ! What I do in that situation, is to assess what the end user needs in the way of phone sockets, and rearrange phones if needed...most people use cordless ones, so it's easier to move the masterphone and socket and NOT leave an extension that is back fed !... We do get audited !

I'm in an area where it will available in a month or so so sorting out the install etc...

But The house I moved to 3 years ago doesn't have a BT faceplate (removeable bottom)

I've got two sockets...one is virgin and one is BT as that's what i use for my BT phone and also used for my ADSL2 when I had.

Should I call out a BT engineer to have a look and see what is going on?

Worried the master socket has been messed with.

If you get BT to do it now they will charge. When you place your order for FTTC they will provide the correct socket with the removable part as part of the FTTC install.