Dec 10 >> Mar 11 theory

There is a sudden spate of dates changing from December 2010 to March 2011, even where the cabinets are already installed and apparently ready to go. Mine included.

BT Wholesale can't make up its mind at the moment - the post code and address checker says I can currently get it, the phone number says March.

My theory - they may be putting back the RFS dates because the bandwidth demands from those already have in service have far exceeded the forecasts, so they are going to delay until they have more backhaul in place.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

so they are going to delay until they have more backhaul in place.

Or they are delaying to allow revenue to come in before spending more on backhaul.

In reply to a post by Croftie:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

so they are going to delay until they have more backhaul in place.

Or they are delaying to allow revenue to come in before spending more on backhaul.

That's just an extension of my theory . You assume there is insufficient backhaul.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Croftie:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

so they are going to delay until they have more backhaul in place.

Or they are delaying to allow revenue to come in before spending more on backhaul.

That's just an extension of my theory . You assume there is insufficient backhaul.

Not really, it's a possible root cause for your theory. You assume there is insufficient backhaul, I agree, but suggest the reason for the delay adding more backhaul might not be technical as you say, but rather financial.

I don't see where the additional revenue you posit comes from. Certainly not from BT Infinity, which seems to be being sold at below the wholesale cost of FTTC to other providers.

It's still cashflow and it isn't their only stream obviously.

I'm sure you'll get it in the end, you have more hope than others too.

In reply to a post by Croftie:

I'm sure you'll get it in the end, you have more hope than others too.

That's not the point of the thread .

The cost/benefit for me is extremely doubtful anyway.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's not the point of the thread .

Never said it was it's still relevant anyway if you want to get into pedantics.

There can be a thousand theorys, just wait and take comfort from the fact you have more hope than most. Or not.

Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Dec-10 16:47:34)

In reply to a post by Croftie:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

so they are going to delay until they have more backhaul in place.

Or they are delaying to allow revenue to come in before spending more on backhaul.

Surely the additional revenue would come from actually using the equipment they have spent so much capital on already?

My theory for this delay...


If the fat lazy sods that work for BT did some work instead of just sitting in the vans drinking tea all day, things might move along more quicker..

without fail every time I drive past BT van, they are doing NOTHING and drinking tea.

Doubt it is anything to do with exchange backhaul. Backhaul is the easy bit in this engineering project in my view.

Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Dec-10 20:49:47)

Easy, but not swift if not forecast?

I think the sudden rush to install cabinets was when they found huge demand on the early enablements, and now they have a fair few going they are finding the average download has shot up as well. Look at the number of posts on these forums of Openreach FTTC heavy use time huge slowdowns, and not just Infinity.

So I agree with you, but it is inherent in my theory that substantial extra backhaul has a lead time.

Nothing more complicated or deeper than that.

Something has to explain the mass retreat from 31 December occurring after 10 December when the cabinets, internals, PCP links and fibre to them has been installed. Quite a different scenario from the 31 December ones where we know it was just a holding date.

My exchange for instance had an MSAN in place over three and a half years ago. So that isn't the problem here.

I would lay odds that the frantic installation schedule has been put on hold as well in the last few days, or at least the next batch. You probably know a lot more than me on that one.

This isn't an Openreach issue.

It's perfectly possible that Openreach have the exchange ready to roll but Wholesale haven't as yet bought their handovers, or Openreach have hit issues with the headend construction.

Headend issues have caused a few problems with exchange dates as far as I'm aware. There is no shortage of backhaul as far as Openreach go.

My guess would be that is nothing to do with exchange backhaul or whether an exchange has an msan fitted

I would also guess that it is pretty much impossible for punters to guess how close to commissioning a particular cabinet is. Even if they think they know fibre tubes have been installed to the cabinet ( and I've seen more than one report of 'fibres' being installed that are undoubtedly drain rods. ) punters won't know the status of the spine tubes.

My theory would be that primarily Openreach have less blokes on NGA duties today than they thought they would have a year ago when they were planning it and had thousands of engineers on the bench.

or it could have been due to the rotten weather with more on the way and this has delayed the whole q4 2010 rollout.

Thats your cab taken off the list !

Me too, Roberto. I'm on the Molesey exchange at Hampton in Middlesex. When I tried it the other day, the BT Checker definitely confirmed that the FTTC going-live date was 31st December. Indeed, samknows still shows the date as 31st December. However, when I now look, the Checker states that it's been put back to 31st March.

I went for a walk around my precinct yesterday, looking specifically at the green street cabinets. Quite apart from the fact that none of them were marked as being BT property (or anyone else's, for that matter), there was no evidence whatever of any new ones having been installed. So, for whatever reason, the exchange may be kitted out for the new medium but the works needed to get the fibre laid and the new cabinets installed and cabled up show no sign whatever of happening.

My guess is that BT is unaware of the demand for the new service and are simply not that bothered about engaging the necessary installation personnel for the cabinets and the fibre. Certainly, not now that the weather's bad and Xmas is almost upon us. It's the typical, infuriating British way.

Demand for better Internet connectivity has always been quite high in this relatively affluent part of Outer London but it strikes me that to install and fit out sufficient cabinets to cover the Hampton area would require a veritable army of workmen and technicians. I just don't see it happening for some months yet and so I guess that's why the date has been put back. Seen from the individual subscriber's angle, the start date for the service is going to be an ever-changing incremental one.

Edited by deleted (Thu 16-Dec-10 00:34:52)

In reply to a post by danielowenuk:

In reply to a post by Croftie:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

so they are going to delay until they have more backhaul in place.

Or they are delaying to allow revenue to come in before spending more on backhaul.

Surely the additional revenue would come from actually using the equipment they have spent so much capital on already?

I agree, but there has to be a limit, you can't just spend and spend and spend, the accountants have to say enough for now at some point. Looks like those more in the know how put pay to the insufficient backhaul theory now anyway

I think they have just realised that rushing to put a load more people live by the end of the month isn't a clever idea, better to postpone, take your time and not have a load of people on holliday if things go tits up. Everyone may even get enabled well before march.

Mediator, it looks as though everything that was supposed to be ready in our area, Molesey, Mortlake, East Sheen, etc, has been pushed back to March.

Hi All,
Same here RFS date has been moved to Mar 2011 even tho everything is completed at the exchange and the DSLAM's. They have even field tested them and commissioned them and all are ok. The guys told me that all that needs to be done is an audit and QC checks and away we go. I've asked a MOD at BT Forum if this is the case but to date no re[ly.
On times I don't understand BT

Yeh, exchanges at Twickenham, Teddington and Kingston were also earmarked to go FTTC-live on 31st Dec.

I just don't see that all the exchanges on the published lists for December enablement - even just those here in west and south-west London - could ever have been fully ready by that date. It would have taken vast armies of roadworkers, cable-layers, and fibre technicians to have installed everything. So, it's no surprise to me that the date's now been put back to March.

I'm certainly not convinced about any fibre having already been laid in the ducts in the precinct, either. I'm an observant fellow and I've certainly not seen any such activity thus far. And there's a complete lack of any new cabinets around. I reckon the FTTC figures I've been given in the BT Checker are simply estimates.

The situation's starting to look farcical. However, I'm giving BT the benefit of the doubt and am trusting that they'll be able to meet most subscribers' FTTC requirements as to the basic infrastructure at some time in 2011.

In reply to a post by meditator:

But in my case the cabinets are installed and cabled up. Completed recently.

And it seems the original March 2011 dates have, today, been moved back to June 2011.
At least I fully expected BT to screw this up (I didn't believe for a minute I'd actually be able to order FTTC to BT's original programme).

I'm still not convinced the dates won't move again.

I reckon Bob is right - BT's recent "equipment fault" (which saw virtually everybody on Infinity capped to 2Mbps - i.e. less the half the national average ADSL speed; not bad for BT's latest "effort") was only an equipment fault in that the equipment (i.e. some kind of backbone to take the increased bandwidth) doesn't actually exist.

It seems BT are letting the rollout slide until they can buy some more bandwidth from themselves.

Doesn't look good for BT aiming for at least 40% coverage by 2012 (i.e. BT have one year and two weeks left).

In reply to a post by adebov:

I reckon Bob is right - BT's recent "equipment fault" (which saw virtually everybody on Infinity capped to 2Mbps - i.e. less the half the national average ADSL speed; not bad for BT's latest "effort") was only an equipment fault in that the equipment (i.e. some kind of backbone to take the increased bandwidth) doesn't actually exist.

It seems BT are letting the rollout slide until they can buy some more bandwidth from themselves.

Exactly .

With it being so widespread, with so much kit already in place, lack of backhaul has to be the only logical explanation.

Mine is still showing the March date, from December 4 days ago. Maybe that's the date for those now with cabinets, and June for those without.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

With it being so widespread, with so much kit already in place, lack of backhaul has to be the only logical explanation.

Either that or it's a massive coincidence.

The time delay between the 2Mbps cap, the putting back of the December dates, then the putting back of the March 2011 dates seems to be about what would be needed for the tech guys at BT to explain (to their bosses and the people with authority to delay the rollout) why they don't have the capacity, and the time taken for said bosses to make the decision.

The additional day (between putting back the Dec 2010 dates to March 2011, and moving the March dates to June 2011 to make way for the delayed December dates) would be about right for someone (either late yesterday or early today) to say "hey; what about the dates we've already got scheduled for March? We can't do them all at the same time".

Edit: Of course; one thing we haven't considered....
Either the other ISPs offering FTTC are using BT's complete package (including backbones), in which case why bother going with them;
Or, BT Openreach are delaying rollout because a different BT division hasn't got enough backbone capacity (and that seems a little anti-competitive and smacks of people who shouldn't be talking to each other forming a back-room deal);
Or, you're wrong and BT Openreach aren't pulling a fast one because BT Retail or BT Wholesale don't have enough backbone transit and BTR or BTW didn't ask OR to do them a favour!

Edited by adebov (Thu 16-Dec-10 22:53:05)

We need to get the WikiLeaks guy onto it.

The whole thing is decidely fishy.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

We need to get the WikiLeaks guy onto it.

Except he seems to have gone insane.
Earlier today he made the statement "it's good to smell the fresh air of London again".
So he's either being ironic or the guy's certifiable .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The whole thing is decidely fishy.

If you want to be a shark, first make sure you've got teeth...

In reply to a post by adebov:

And it seems the original March 2011 dates have, today, been moved back to June 2011.

FWIW half my town has been done (furthest away from exchange) and all the roads in my area (near exchange) are on March 2011.

My line today reports:
>Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 31st March 2011.

From the checker at:
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Teleph...

That hasn't changed - and I know my cabinet (thanks to James at ADSL24) and its pretty easy to locate on the street, and absolutely zero works have occurred.

Hope all you others expecting by end of year haven't been too disappointed - I wouldn't be surprised if there have been delays all over the country caused by snow, and equipment stuck etc.

In reply to a post by adebov:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

We need to get the WikiLeaks guy onto it.

Except he seems to have gone insane.
Earlier today he made the statement "it's good to smell the fresh air of London again".
So he's either being ironic or the guy's certifiable .

Remember he was comparing it to the air inside a Victorian basement prison cell.

well it may come as a shock but once again it seems that as far as BT is concerned Silence is Golden, No reply from MOD's on their forum about this, also when speaking to Infinity Sales team they have informed me that March 2011 for FTTC will be unable to be met by them due to the following:-
1. Delay in getting the new Dslam's made
2. Country wide shortage of Fibre Cable
3. Staff working flat out.
I informed him that the new dslam's and cable and staff have completed all the work (same as Bob), no no he said thats not correct, I asked did he want me to send him a photo of the above, I'm sorry sir you can't have a photo of this as it's not been carried out yet.
Ok change tack me thinks, so asked if it was due to the problems peeps have been having with low speeds, no that has been sorted and any way it was a small equipment fault that affected only a small area. Yeah ok I said
So gents your guess is as good as mine on what is going on

Don't expect anything usefull from the mods, they get told what they are and are not allowed to say.

I don't think there is anything fishy going on, it's just a combination of several factors. All of which we will never know for sure.

The 2Mbit slowdown seems fixed for most but there are still a few people reporting the problem. They must be imagining it though because it was only a small area that was effected and it's been fixed

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vt2ne4

that link is for scotland as i'm in wales no good for me lol

lol suit yourself

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

My theory for this delay...


If the fat lazy sods that work for BT did some work instead of just sitting in the vans drinking tea all day, things might move along more quicker..

without fail every time I drive past BT van, they are doing NOTHING and drinking tea.

So people working outside in the cold aren't entitled to a cup of tea? Or is that just BT engineers?
Lazy? over the last 4 months Openreach have kept calling contractual overtime often meaning engineers working 6day weeks - whatever the weather. New contracts also meaning a normal day can end at 7/8pm.
The reason for any delay will be complex and several factors but the fact that LLU has boosted demand for new orders 250,000 extra lines last quater (story recently about CEO of Openreach writing a letter of apology to CPs about lead-times) will have an impact. The bad weather that often occurs this time of year often results in network construction engineers being re-posted to reactive fault work which doesnt help.
Relying on contractors who then subcontract due to lack of resource wont help the build either.
Personally it looks like a manpower issue to me, with huge demand for its legacy products - a workforce that was cut 30k over the last 2 years and the normal hurdles one would expect with such a huge programme it is no surprise that some people will be waiting a little longer for fibre.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Lazy? over the last 4 months Openreach have kept calling contractual overtime often meaning engineers working 6day weeks - whatever the weather. New contracts also meaning a normal day can end at 7/8pm.
The reason for any delay will be complex and several factors but the fact that LLU has boosted demand for new orders 250,000 extra lines last quater (story recently about CEO of Openreach writing a letter of apology to CPs about lead-times) will have an impact. The bad weather that often occurs this time of year often results in network construction engineers being re-posted to reactive fault work which doesnt help.
Relying on contractors who then subcontract due to lack of resource wont help the build either.
Personally it looks like a manpower issue to me, with huge demand for its legacy products - a workforce that was cut 30k over the last 2 years and the normal hurdles one would expect with such a huge programme it is no surprise that some people will be waiting a little longer for fibre.

A lot of that makes perfect sense, but in my opinion doesn't add up to the reason for the current backing off.

I have been amazed at the cabinet installations going ahead here during the recent sub-zero temperatures. That they aren't empty cabinets is illustrated by this post and my response to Zarjaz's reply to it.

There are several similar experiences now being reported.

That work seems to have been pushed ahead in the way you describe, contractual overtime in a big push to get the cabinets commissioned. I think it is fair to assume that connectivity to the exchange is complete, as there has been associated running of fibre through the ducts in the area over the last few months.

So why does the BTW checker no longer show any date for FTTC on this number, having changed on 16 December from 31 December to 31 March?

There has to be something unrelated to your suggestions.

On Thursday my line reported:
>Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 31st March 2011.

Today it reports:

Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 1st July 2011

take our pick i get different dates

Bt Map - MARCH 2011

BT Line Checker - DEC2010
BT Whole Sale Checker - DEC2010


so im set for Febuary 15th as its in between

Echange is haslington, I know they are working still as they have done 2 cabs up the road but im woundering the 2011 is the expected completed date for the entire area as i know people who got BT Infinity before the comp Date .

But Who Knows ...........Only OPen Reach i Guess

Get a grip, it was ment as a joke :/

Edited by lockyatlrg (Sun 19-Dec-10 09:38:24)

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

Get a grip, it was ment as a joke :/

Ah but !

It was clearly a joke to people in our position, but if you were one of the poor sods literally forced to work outside in the temperatures we've been having, and with those tiny wires and connectors that mean bare fingers are needed, (which does make me wonder about possible future or even existing poor connections), would you have thought it funny if someone else had cracked it?

Many of them must be really "fed up" (please supply appropriate expletive), and a missing sense of humour about it isn't surprising.

One thing we can be sure of, it isn't the fault of any of the engineers, who have a lousy job at the moment.

Thanks Rob

yep working outside all day when -5 is not much fun , even less so when pulled in on a rest day.

not so long ago the big boss was telling us all overtime is going so get use to it, now we are pulled in aganist our will !

you really could not make it up

I just want to clarify that video I posted wasn't intended to laugh at the engineers. I did chuckle and think of this forum when i saw it, but It's just an example of what their currently dealing with.

If I saw an engineer working near me in this weather I'd offer him/her a flask of tea and a bacon sarnie

Lack of funds I guess.

Well I work outside everyday on high roofs etc, carrying metal all day, So yeah I know how they feel

Edited by lockyatlrg (Sun 19-Dec-10 16:57:15)

I'll organise a collection to buy you a second vacuum flask .

Croftie,
Wot Video??????????????
It just getting better with me now I'm being told that I'm not able to get Infinity as my Phone line is not BT!!!!!!!!!. Like some one else said if this is the case can I please have all my money back that I've paid to you over the last 16yrs, the best part was that I was looged into my BT account at the time lol

Just wanted to mention that my exchange continues to show the later date, would appear that these times are entirely intentional. March 31st 2011 -> July 1st 2011 in my case.

Anyone seen a change since the last push back of dates?

Saw a note of a figure of 87% of London having FTTC by Spring which really isn't happening and it made me wonder if anyone has seen things change back.?

Things must be bad on BT.

I had a letter from Openreach a few days ago, offering me a job re: high speed broadband.

I retired from them 9 months ago, & am happy in a nice warm house

In reply to a post by MadMan:

Things must be bad on BT.

I had a letter from Openreach a few days ago, offering me a job re: high speed broadband.

I retired from them 9 months ago, & am happy in a nice warm house

Keep wishing them well!

Your pension depends on it ....

The tactical planning is poor, and they haven't even heard of strategic planning. Which is a far cry from what some of the pre and immediately post-privatisation management were capable of.

Those people were good!

Oh! Re the nice warm house. I hope you have a Central Heating maintenance contract with British Gas. That service is excellent, and I speak from experience of several emergency call-outs. (None of which were due to earlier errors on their part). Though a recent one did involve several very expensive (to them) visits failing to correct the problem. Then they sent a top fixer!

Ten minutes after arrival he showed me the incontrovertible cause of the whole system going AWOL. Apparently it is very common, but he can't get them to include it in the diagnostic scripts.

Does that ring any bells ?

its not cash flow as its widely publicised that a mahoosive amount of cash is available.

its nothing to do with fttc construction guys moving onto reactive work, well not hugely. the bulk of fttc installation is equipment and fibre type activities. these guys do not revert onto frontline.

the only aspect of the hardware installation out with openreachs control is the installation of mains power, that is down to local power authorities and they are unable to keep up with openreach demand.

i think you will find the main issue is the current workload, a massive increase in llu activity, mainly sky ever since virgin stopped folk bumping the tv and broadband. the fact that the guys who do the install in your house as previously stated are working flat out. as we speak im heading out, 2nd bank holiday in a row.

there is a massive mountain to climb but there is light at the top of it and a cup of tea, just ease of the bashing a little. i would challenge any of you to come out with me for a day to witness how complex maintaining these silly little wires really can be.

In reply to a post by andyboygsi:

there is a massive mountain to climb but there is light at the top of it and a cup of tea, just ease of the bashing a little. i would challenge any of you to come out with me for a day to witness how complex maintaining these silly little wires really can be.

I hope you didn't intend that reply to be to me, but to some other poster. If so - please start to use the Reply button against the post you are replying to, not the latest in the thread in Flat mode

If it is aimed at me, I'm rather upset by it!

In my case all mention of FTTC is still absent, having in the past been December 2010. All cabinets in this area south of Stepping Hill now seem to be in place, after a frantic spurt to install them during late November/early December.

Madness.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by andyboygsi:

there is a massive mountain to climb but there is light at the top of it and a cup of tea, just ease of the bashing a little. i would challenge any of you to come out with me for a day to witness how complex maintaining these silly little wires really can be.

I hope you didn't intend that reply to be to me, but to some other poster. If so - please start to use the Reply button against the post you are replying to, not the latest in the thread in Flat mode

If it is aimed at me, I'm rather upset by it!

absolutely was not aimed at anyone just a general post, i did not know there were different ways to reply

apologies

In reply to a post by andyboygsi:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by andyboygsi:

there is a massive mountain to climb but there is light at the top of it and a cup of tea, just ease of the bashing a little. i would challenge any of you to come out with me for a day to witness how complex maintaining these silly little wires really can be.

I hope you didn't intend that reply to be to me, but to some other poster. If so - please start to use the Reply button against the post you are replying to, not the latest in the thread in Flat mode

If it is aimed at me, I'm rather upset by it!

absolutely was not aimed at anyone just a general post, i did not know there were different ways to reply

apologies

If you haven't already read this post of mine, you will see I'm on the engineers' side. Can't say the same about the management unfortunately.

Nearer me Mortlake, which has cabinets constructed, has been pushed back to 31st March.

It is quite bizarre that there should be cabinets already built sitting idle for 3+ months.

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Dec-10 18:07:54)

My cabinet (Thamesmead #37) has been there since January this year and the date has just moved back to March 31st! So by the time that happens it'll have been there for 16 months doing nothing. The other cabinets in the area are active and serving people as I can see from Top 10 Broadband street stats. My cab is about 200m away, another cab 250m away in one direction and another about 400m away in the other direction.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

Nearer me Mortlake, which has cabinets constructed, has been pushed back to 31st March.

It is quite bizarre that there should be cabinets already built sitting idle for 3+ months.

Well ours is powered up as you can hear the cooling running, but the BTW checker still doesn't mention FTTC.

Atleast you have a cab installed, no cab installed here yet..

Do BT when they upgrade an Exchange to Fibre work from the longest distance away from the exchange and work back to it?????. Reason being is that like your new DSLAM cab fan is also hummimg away like a goodun but BT keeps saying I'm not planned for Fibre yet. or do they as a cab becomes live they connect peeps??????

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

Just wanted to mention that my exchange continues to show the later date, would appear that these times are entirely intentional. March 31st 2011 -> July 1st 2011 in my case.

Anyone seen a change since the last push back of dates?

Saw a note of a figure of 87% of London having FTTC by Spring which really isn't happening and it made me wonder if anyone has seen things change back.?

Just bumping this one as it's relevant.

A quick check today and what was March 31st then became July 1st is now September.

Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 30th September 2011.

87% of London covered by spring, hmm.

Anyone else been moved back, again?

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Apr-11 18:58:33)

Was checking nearby, it looked like they had installed a new cabinet (big green one) 50 metres from a place where I need business broadband installed. However the checker said 30th September 2011.
Yesterday it turns out, FTTC is now availble, so I'm going to be ordering a new BT Line along with finding a provider


Edit:
Today I had VM call to say they're cancellign a new line because they can't drill through the street to run a cable (even though the cable is already there... they said it was faulty or something). Gutted. I then proceed to look through for FTTC and ALL OF A SUDDEN it says the cabinet is due to be activated on 30 June.

[censored]? Yesterday I was checking BT Infinity website, Zen, aaisp and they all said that FTTC is now available. And now it's not. i don't understand!

Edited by Saltank (Fri 08-Apr-11 16:13:32)

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

A quick check today and what was March 31st then became July 1st is now September.

Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 30th September 2011.

87% of London covered by spring, hmm.

Anyone else been moved back, again?

Same here - starting to wonder if BT (or the power companies) really are stupid and didn't realise what was involved in trying to roll out hundreds of exchanges and possibly tens of thousands of cabinets within six months, or whether it's simple incompetence.

Better, surely, to not bother putting dates in the first place, rather than getting our hopes up by publishing dates (and they must know, by now, they're not achievable) and moving them back, then back again, then back again.

The whole episode is making BT look like they've no idea what they're doing and might have been better giving the job to someone else!

Beginning to wonder if BT have any intention of enabling those of us stupid enough to live in areas where only 50,000+ are served from a single exchange.

At this rate putting money on us not being enabled before the end of 2012 is looking like a safer bet than any on the National tomorrow!

Edited by adebov (Fri 08-Apr-11 18:16:54)

In reply to a post by Saltank:

Edit:
Today I had VM call to say they're cancellign a new line because they can't drill through the street to run a cable (even though the cable is already there...

Or they have realised it will cost them more than £10 ...

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by Saltank:

Edit:
Today I had VM call to say they're cancellign a new line because they can't drill through the street to run a cable (even though the cable is already there...

Or they have realised it will cost them more than £10 ...

Their limit is £300 - they are doing civils for me to repair a collapsed duct.

Where is the level playing field ... BT has to pay £3400 under the USO but someone who wants service from Virgin cannot force them to provide!

In reply to a post by MHC:

Where is the level playing field ... BT has to pay £3400 under the USO but someone who wants service from Virgin cannot force them to provide!

That's the difference between the incumbent and an OLO.