Alternative Wireless routers with inbuilt VDSL modem.

I have been having issues with my FTTC connection for the last few weeks whereby my I.P profile has dropped and I have been seeing some high pings. Unfortunately no one as yet apart from BT can access the BT Modem to gain the stats. Now apart from getting my hands on a JDSU tester my only other option is to purchase a VDSL router.

I have been scouring the internet to see which devices are available on the market and as far as I can see the only device that has been tested as working is the Thomson TG789vn, albeit being a bit buggy.


DLink DSL 6740B- No UK stock as far as I can see- Does not work according to this post.

Zyxel P-870HW-51A- £111.73 delivered here at Porthale Services. Cannot find any feedback stating this router works.

ZyXEL P-870HN-51b- £137.28 delivered here at Porthale Services. Cannot find any feedback stating this router works.


Thomson TG789vn - £147.92 delivered here at DSL Source - As far as I have read the router works but the stats are buggy.


DrayTek Vigor 2750n - £201.97 delivered here by an Amazon UK market seller. Cannot find any feedback stating this router works.


FRITZ!Box Fon WLAN 7390 - AVM7390- £214.99 delivered here at CCL. Does not work according to this post.

The prices I have stated above may not be the cheapest but I have supplied links where the devices are in stock at the time of me writing this post.

Has anyone else tested any of the devices above? Otherwise I may just buy the Thomson TG789vn.

Edited by maniac886 (Sun 06-Feb-11 13:22:34)

I think this will work:

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FB763B/A?mco=MTcxN...

Ask in the Apple forum for confirmation.

that apple thing doesn't have a VDSL modem in it !

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I think this will work

That's a router only and requires Ethernet connection to a WAN.

It doesn't have an internal modem.

Sorry, I thought the OP was after a router to plug in to the VDSL modem.

I have updated the thread title just to make it more clear.

Any particular reason for not asking about a VDSL2 modem only?

(assuming somebody sells such a thing!)

In reply to a post by billford:

Any particular reason for not asking about a VDSL2 modem only?

(assuming somebody sells such a thing!)

There are two VDSL2 modems that are available, the SMC smc7800a/vcp and the ZyXEL P-871M but I am not sure if I can obtain stats from these devices? A 2 in 1 device would be my preference as it would save some room on my desk, plus I guess it would use less power.

Fair enough... can't help with stats availability, but the ZyXEL is about the same price as a modem/router and neither have gigabit Ethernet^*, so that's those two out!


^* Quite a few people have reported that 10/100Base-T Ethernet routers don't have the grunt to handle an FTTC connection running flat out, presumably down to using a slower processor.

In reply to a post by maniac886:

Has anyone else tested any of the devices above? Otherwise I may just buy the Thomson TG789vn.

Hmm, I am also interested in this.

Found it for £129 with delivery here:
http://www.technicolor.dslshop.co.uk/789_datasheet.a...

some of them also work as ADSL routers which would at least make it saleable if you don't need it any more. Maybe we need "router rental"

I actually went for the Thomson Technicolor TG789n in the end, the websites where the other routers are in stock don't have very flexible returns policy. At least dslshop.co.uk give you 14 days to return the item and will supply a full refund(exc postage).

At least there are a few of us that can test this router out incase anyone else is thinking of purchasing a VDSL Wireless router.

I should be able to test this out tomorrow after work and hopefully get some stats and some reasoning as to my my I.P profile has dropped so much and my pings have doubled.

Hi,

I received my Fritz!Box 7390 on Friday, even though I have no Infinity yet (due at "end of March", as usual).

I just liked the features so much that I bought one anyway - I will give it a try once I have Infinity. I will either use it as a router only, or with the VDSL modem built-in - does anyone know whether there are any specific parameters that need to be set? Maybe we just don't know these yet?

Other than that, I love my Fritzbox already - an iPhone App to make landline calls through! From anywhere in the world using VPN - really nice. I only seem to have problems with Annex M on my current Be line - there's conflicting reports as to whether the box supports it or not...

Nils.

In reply to a post by Quark999:

Hi,

I received my Fritz!Box 7390 on Friday, even though I have no Infinity yet (due at "end of March", as usual).

I just liked the features so much that I bought one anyway - I will give it a try once I have Infinity. I will either use it as a router only, or with the VDSL modem built-in - does anyone know whether there are any specific parameters that need to be set? Maybe we just don't know these yet?

Other than that, I love my Fritzbox already - an iPhone App to make landline calls through! From anywhere in the world using VPN - really nice. I only seem to have problems with Annex M on my current Be line - there's conflicting reports as to whether the box supports it or not...

Nils.

The Fritz!Box 7390 was one of my considerations as it has got very good reviews, however I backed out as no one has actually reported this as working with FTTC as yet and its > £200.

Let us know how you get on when you have Infinity installed with the Fritz!Box 7390 .

Well, I can always use it as a router if worst comes to worse - all that costs is one power socket and one ethernet port

Is there ANY third-party VDSL modem reported as working? There's quite a few routers and modems out there in the world, they're just not common in the UK yet - the Openreach modem can't be that different, I really just think it will be a matter of configuration. But because everyone is treating it as something very special, we don't know it yet. Used to be the same with ADSL that would *only* work with the supplier's modem. Yeah, right

I'll post again once I have Infinity - or rather AAISP. My March date isn't budging yet, despite the cab being powered up. Let's see whether it will be any sooner...

In reply to a post by Quark999:

Well, I can always use it as a router if worst comes to worse - all that costs is one power socket and one ethernet port

Is there ANY third-party VDSL modem reported as working? There's quite a few routers and modems out there in the world, they're just not common in the UK yet - the Openreach modem can't be that different, I really just think it will be a matter of configuration. But because everyone is treating it as something very special, we don't know it yet. Used to be the same with ADSL that would *only* work with the supplier's modem. Yeah, right

I'll post again once I have Infinity - or rather AAISP. My March date isn't budging yet, despite the cab being powered up. Let's see whether it will be any sooner...

There are two VDSL2 modems that are available, the SMC smc7800a/vcp and the ZyXEL P-871M but these don't have gigabit ports and have not been tested yet.

Once FTTC is more widespread I think there will be more ISPs(apart from BT) who will test out the other routers. I know that Plusnet have been testing out the Thomson TG789 with some customers on their FTTC/FTTP trials.

I have limited space in the room where the master socket is so a 2 in 1 device is my preference. I am hoping there are only a small list of bugs with the Thomson which can hopefully be fixed in future firmware updates.

Edited by maniac886 (Mon 07-Feb-11 13:32:52)

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by maniac886:

Has anyone else tested any of the devices above? Otherwise I may just buy the Thomson TG789vn.

Hmm, I am also interested in this.

Found it for £129 with delivery here:
http://www.technicolor.dslshop.co.uk/789_datasheet.a...

Thanks, that's the one I just bought this morning, should be able to test it tomorrow afternoon.

In reply to a post by maniac886:

Once FTTC is more widespread I think there will be more ISPs(apart from BT) who will test out the other routers. I know that Plusnet have been testing out the Thomson TG789 with some customers on their FTTC/FTTP trials.

Hmm, interesting... I was told by the installer of my FTTC bits that the demarcation point was the ethernet port on the modem- in theory I can't even change the RJ11 cable!!!

Maybe someone could confirm/refute that, as it would make the provision of modems by other ISPs a bit tricky. (I'd accept that Plusnet are in a slightly different position)

With FTTC there are two demarcation points, the normal NTE-5 socket, and the active demarcation (the modem) the modem remains the property of Openreach and as part of the T&C's you are supposed to use it.
The router is suppiled by whoever your ISP is and you are free to replace this if you wish.
I'm sure this will change as FTTC becomes more popular, and so long as the modem part meets Openreach's specification I see no reason why in the future an ISP supplied one box solution should not be the norm.

Edited by deleted (Tue 08-Feb-11 09:51:36)

In reply to a post by systemx:

With FTTC there are two demarcation points, the normal NTE-5 socket, and the active demarcation (the modem) the modem remains the property of Openreach and as part of the T&C's you are supposed to use it.
The router is suppiled by whoever your ISP is and you are free to replace this if you wish.

But not to fit your own VDSL modem/router, like the Thomson?

At the moment no.

Thanks for the confirmation, I always prefer to know what I'm allowed (or not) to do.

Mine has arrived today so will be testing it out, I have no other choice as BT refuse to accept that I have a fault as it comes within their 'acceptable limits' so its not being logged as such. There is something wrong with my connection as the I.P profile for my download has dropped by 15 Meg and my pings have doubled and have gone up to 45-50ms . I have had this issue for a few weeks now.

Once I get my stats from the Thomson VDSL wireless router and BT accept I have a fault then I can start using the openreach modem again and the Thomson can be used as a back-up or I can sell it.

Keep us informed on your stats etc.

Physical Layer Statistics:

Modem state: up
Up time (Days hh:mm:ss): 0 days, 0:21:56
xDSL Standard: ITU-T G.993.2
xDSL Annex: Annex A
Channel Mode: Interleaved

Number of reset: 2

Chipset Vendor info (G.994.1): Local Remote
Country code: B500 B500
ID: BDCM BDCM
Specific: 0000 A188

System Vendor info (showtime): Local Remote
Country code: 0F00 0000
ID: TMMB ----
Specific: 3C61 0000

Bearers generic info DS US
Payload rate [Kbps]: 26716 9999
Attenuation [dB]: 1.0 0.4
Margins [dB]: 13.5 17.3
Output power [dBm]: 5.5 -12.7

Number of bearers: 1
Bearer 0 DS US
INP [DMT symbols]: 8.00 0.00
Delay [ms]: 14.00 0.00
Depth []: 0 0.00
R: 0 0

G.997.1 Statistics (Current):

Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0

Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 0

Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 0 N/A
FEC: 2124 1

ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 0 N/A

G.997.1 Statistics (last 15 minutes):

Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0

Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 0

Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 0 N/A
FEC: 2124 1

ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 0 N/A

G.997.1 Statistics (last 24 hours):

Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0

Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 0

Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 0 N/A
FEC: 2124 1

ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 0 N/A

Edited by maniac886 (Tue 08-Feb-11 17:45:08)

Just to add to my stats post:

I did a speedtest before I swapped over and I got 16Meg Down and 6 Meg up using speedtest.net.uk. Now with the Thomson router plugged in I get 21 Meg down and 9 Meg up.

Will do a BT speedtest later but can anyone tell me why my I.P profile has dropped(download) and my pings have increased?

In reply to a post by maniac886:

can anyone tell me why my I.P profile has dropped(download) and my pings have increased?

Normally it would be due to a period of noise/increased errors and the DLM kicked in with a higher target SNRM and turning interleave on.

It could be that you swapped modems a bit too often and tripped it... or just possibly that the MSAN detected you weren't using the OR modem and decided to punish you

Which figures on my posted stats above should I be looking at?

I've no idea, the workings of the DLM are a mystery to me (and most people)

If the cause was transient, it should recover on its own in time- a period of some days, but can't be closer than that.

My profile (and latency) varies with the weather, I think probably someone between me and the cabinet has a noisy heating system.

In reply to a post by billford:

I've no idea, the workings of the DLM are a mystery to me (and most people)

If the cause was transient, it should recover on its own in time- a period of some days, but can't be closer than that.

My profile (and latency) varies with the weather, I think probably someone between me and the cabinet has a noisy heating system.

Sorry, I should have been clearer in my last post. Do any of my stats from my Thomson router(attenuation,SNR etc) posted above indicate that DLM has kicked in?

In reply to a post by maniac886:

Sorry, I should have been clearer in my last post. Do any of my stats from my Thomson router(attenuation,SNR etc) posted above indicate that DLM has kicked in?

A couple indicate that it might have:

Channel Mode: Interleaved

and

Margins [dB]: 13.5 17.3

The 13.5 looks high, I'd have expected about 6db. Hard to be sure as it's not immediately after connecting, but it's only 22 minutes later.

Thanks, I may then give it a few days to settle down, but at least I have some evidence to provide to my ISP!

Might be worth keeping an eye on the FEC errors too:

FEC: 2124 1

I wouldn't have thought 100/minute was particularly high, but the DLM might

Just ran the BT speedtest and I have got 22Meg Down and 8.5Meg up. My I.P profile has increased as well by 3 Meg down which is encouraging. I am surprised that the router has increased my upload speed by 1.5Meg. Will do another speedtest bright and early tomorrow morning to see if there is any improvement.

In reply to a post by maniac886:

Just ran the BT speedtest and I have got 22Meg Down and 8.5Meg up. My I.P profile has increased as well by 3 Meg down which is encouraging. I am surprised that the router has increased my upload speed by 1.5Meg. Will do another speedtest bright and early tomorrow morning to see if there is any improvement.

Does Routerstats or DMT work with it?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by maniac886:

Just ran the BT speedtest and I have got 22Meg Down and 8.5Meg up. My I.P profile has increased as well by 3 Meg down which is encouraging. I am surprised that the router has increased my upload speed by 1.5Meg. Will do another speedtest bright and early tomorrow morning to see if there is any improvement.

Does Routerstats or DMT work with it?

I have tried both and unfortunately neither work with the router.

In reply to a post by maniac886:

I have tried both and unfortunately neither work with the router.

What error messages do you get?

The routerstats software does not bring up any error messages as such , it just says it's running but there is no information on any of the graphs.

DMT:

SpeedTouch 789vn (pots) eth=SWITCH
board_name=CANT-4 companyID=TMBB
flash_image=8.4.1.12.0 build_name=ZYDOAW8.41C
bcm96368_V1.0.22b_ADSL_PHY_A2pv6bCT001a.d21k5

on the right hand side I get the message memory statistics:unknown command. It doesn't bring up any info like SNR,attenuation etc.

Did you try Routerstats lite?

Did you try DMT v8.07? (http://dmt.mhilfe.de/)

INP [DMT symbols]: 8.00 0.00
Delay [ms]: 14.00 0.00

- Impulse Noise Protection engaged

ID: BDCM BDCM - chipset match, may explain the extra performance

FEC: 2124 1 - a bit of error correction going on, not much

In reply to a post by yarwell:

INP [DMT symbols]: 8.00 0.00
Delay [ms]: 14.00 0.00

- Impulse Noise Protection engaged

ID: BDCM BDCM - chipset match, may explain the extra performance

FEC: 2124 1 - a bit of error correction going on, not much

Cheers

From the stats above do you think my line is capable of a higher download speed?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Did you try Routerstats lite?

Did you try DMT v8.07? (http://dmt.mhilfe.de/)

Neither work again, same issues as before.

Oh well, thanks for trying.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Oh well, thanks for trying.

No problems.

Margins [dB]: 13.5 17.3

these could be lower, giving more speed (though the upstream one is high 'cos you've hit the service profile of 10,000)

I remember reading that the DLM "boxes in" the connection based on its early performance, ie to stop it syncing too low or high. If you always get exactly the same downstream sync speed with a high margin you may be at a cap or in a box. Alternatively you may just have an elevated SNRM target from previous wobbles.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

Margins [dB]: 13.5 17.3

these could be lower, giving more speed (though the upstream one is high 'cos you've hit the service profile of 10,000)

I remember reading that the DLM "boxes in" the connection based on its early performance, ie to stop it syncing too low or high. If you always get exactly the same downstream sync speed with a high margin you may be at a cap or in a box. Alternatively you may just have an elevated SNRM target from previous wobbles.

My original I.P download profile used to be 37979Kbps and now it's 25767Kbps which all started two Fridays ago when my download speed dropped down to 1 Meg I believe due to an issue at the exchange. Since then the I.P profile has stayed at the same figure. I will give it till Sunday before seeing if my ISP can do anything.

My original I.P download profile used to be 37979Kbps and now it's 25767Kbps which all started two Fridays ago when my download speed dropped down to 1 Meg

Payload rate [Kbps]: 26716 9999

the current IP profile reflects the sync speed. If the sync speed is always 26716 it may be capped. The target noise margin may have been increased, giving a reduced sync speed. The INP value can be from 2 to 16 and higher values reduce maximum sync speed or throughput (still trying to get my head round that one)..

In reply to a post by yarwell:

My original I.P download profile used to be 37979Kbps and now it's 25767Kbps which all started two Fridays ago when my download speed dropped down to 1 Meg

Payload rate [Kbps]: 26716 9999

the current IP profile reflects the sync speed. If the sync speed is always 26716 it may be capped. The target noise margin may have been increased, giving a reduced sync speed. The INP value can be from 2 to 16 and higher values reduce maximum sync speed or throughput (still trying to get my head round that one)..

Thanks, I think I will give it 5 days then incase DLM is still in force.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

My original I.P download profile used to be 37979Kbps and now it's 25767Kbps which all started two Fridays ago when my download speed dropped down to 1 Meg

Payload rate [Kbps]: 26716 9999

the current IP profile reflects the sync speed. If the sync speed is always 26716 it may be capped. The target noise margin may have been increased, giving a reduced sync speed. The INP value can be from 2 to 16 and higher values reduce maximum sync speed or throughput (still trying to get my head round that one)..

I forgot to save a screenshot of my BT speedtest yesterday so forgot the exact I.P profile, just ran it again this morning . The BT reported I.P profile(down) is 25859Kbps and my router sync speed is 26716Kpbs.

Your sync speed will only change when you resync - unless SRA is working...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Your sync speed will only change when you resync - unless SRA is working...

Or the DLM forces the MSAN to resync... which does seem to be what's happening on mine.

Have used an AVM FRITZ!Box 7390 since 8Jan2011.
The 7390 ADSL modem synchronised at 8000/400 but repeatedly failed to login and dropped the connection (PPPoE Timeout) after about 6 seconds. Upgraded to firmware 84.04.87 without improvement.
The 7390 was re-configured to connect LAN1 as a cable modem and ran successfully via the old AVM 7150, set up as an ADSL modem (still working fine since 2007).

Openreach upgraded the connection to FTTC on 24Jan. As soon as the engineer had completed work at the cabinet, the AVM 7390 was connected to the ADSL / VDSL2 socket and DSL reported:
- training - connecting- DSL synchronised.
DSL version 1.68.16.14 DSL enabled VDSL2 Annex A
Equipment in the street cabinet was reported as:
Broadcom, 161.136 - H0 0, B5004244434D, 7631302E, 00
DSL data showed:
Max DSLAM Throughput 40000 9984
Attainable Throughput 39984 15912
Current Throughput 39984 9984
Whow.

However login to the ISP failed, again with with PPPoE Timeout but the VDSL2 connection remained solid.

By now the engineer had finished work at the cabinet and arrived at the house.
He first wanted to fit a new NTE5 faceplate, which had back connections for fixed voice extension wiring. However this Openreach faceplate had no back connections for fixed ADSL wiring, only an RJ11 socket on the front. The engineer agreed to leave my Austin Taylor ADSL Faceplate Splitter (from Solwise) in place and use the existing ADSL fixed wiring back to the data centre (~10m CAT5E).
The new Openreach (Huawei HG612) VDSL2 modem was connected; the 7390 was set as a cable router and connected over LAN1; the 7390 passed account login data to the HG612. Everything worked immediately. The engineer's meter showed 39984/9984.

The 7390 no longer gave any DSL information or usage monitor.
The engineer had three more FTTC installations before lunch so we did not try the 7390 VDSL2 function again.

Results of Think broadband speedtest
- Mean of Downstream/Upstream in Kbps:
2007 to 23Jan2001 5043/372 ADSL
24Jan2001 25928/8173 FTTC
2Feb-10 Feb 2011 19335/5572 FTTC

The upstream speeds are always very similar, whilst downstream fluctuates depending on time of day and network congestion.
The initial 8173 Upstream appears now to have been capped at around 5500.

Sorry that the 7390's VDSL2 modem can't be used but delighted with its enhancements over the previous FRITZ!Box 7150

In reply to a post by MJEdmunds:

Sorry that the 7390's VDSL2 modem can't be used

Why can't it?

the negotiation failed PPPoE (?)

didn't work on ADSL either

Edited by yarwell (Thu 10-Feb-11 13:19:49)

In reply to a post by yarwell:

the negotiation failed PPPoE (?)

Wrong settings then. I assume it would work with the correct settings.

BT is using pppoE with CHAP password encryption MD5

Sorry to ressurect an old(ish) thread,

but one quick question to you guys that have replaced both the modem, and hub, with a one box VDSL Modem/Router.

What settings do i need, to be able to configure my VDSL modem?

i have ordered the DrayTek Vigor 2750n from Amazon, as im having some connection issues, (drops at least 5 times a day) i have had in eccess of 5 visits from Openreach engineers, completley new line run, new openreach modem, new BTHomeHub... i just want to get some stats, and see what the problem could be!

Many thanks,
Will

In reply to a post by willuk2010:

Sorry to ressurect an old(ish) thread,

but one quick question to you guys that have replaced both the modem, and hub, with a one box VDSL Modem/Router.

What settings do i need, to be able to configure my VDSL modem?

i have ordered the DrayTek Vigor 2750n from Amazon, as im having some connection issues, (drops at least 5 times a day) i have had in eccess of 5 visits from Openreach engineers, completley new line run, new openreach modem, new BTHomeHub... i just want to get some stats, and see what the problem could be!

Many thanks,
Will

When I entered my settings on the THomson device I only needed to put in my username and password as provided by my ISP.

Are these dropouts occuring at the same time every day?

Oh really,

thats good to know, i thought there may be some settings like you do with ADSL, (VCI, VPI etc)

Erm, no there pretty random... i dont notice them in the day, but my partner does, then when i get home, play some XBOX Live, i get frequent disconnections (using wired)

Will

I had random disconnections a few months ago which got more severe over the last few weeks, I had numerous BT Openreach visits but they still could not fix the issue. The REIN got worse, however there was a clear pattern that was appearing on a daily basis. I wrote a letter to most my neigbours, 30 mins later my download speed had shot up and there was no packet loss, it's been solid since so fingers crossed.

What did you say to your neighbours, that sorted it out ? lol

So just back on the settings, are there settings like VCI, VPI etc for VDSL?

if all i have to do is put the username in, thats a bonus... ill report back if the Draytek Vigor works when i get it next week!

In reply to a post by willuk2010:

What did you say to your neighbours, that sorted it out ? lol

So just back on the settings, are there settings like VCI, VPI etc for VDSL?

if all i have to do is put the username in, thats a bonus... ill report back if the Draytek Vigor works when i get it next week!

No idea who it was! There were around 50 leaflets handed out so it could have been anyone. They must have switched it off and then realised their own broadband was working again as well.

The settings for VCI, VPI were already set, I didn't adjust them on my Thomson. Let us know how you get on with the Draytek as your the first person I know to test out that particular model. The Thomson isn't that great to be honest, yes you can get stats but it's a little buggy.

Hmm,

The Vigor2750 wont have it,

it connects to VDSL, i can see my profile, at 9.9mb down, 36mb up.. and all the stats, but when i configure PPPoE, with the username, [email protected] it just stays disconnected.. tried everything ;(

logged in via ssh to the router, and found the logs and all i could see was,


Jan 1 00:21:22 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[1491]: Plugin rp-pppoe.so loaded.
Jan 1 00:21:22 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[1492]: pppd 2.4.4 started by root, uid 0
Jan 1 00:21:22 Vigor2750 daemon.err pppd[1492]: Interface eth1.2 has MTU of 1492 -- should be 1500. You may have serious connection problems.
Jan 1 00:21:37 Vigor2750 daemon.warn pppd[1492]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
Jan 1 00:21:37 Vigor2750 daemon.err pppd[1492]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery

Hmmm

Shouldn't that be 36Mb down?

Sorry mate, your right!

9mb up 36mb down...

its been a long night! i just cant get this [censored] working, im sure if i could find the right pppd settings to put in the files on the router, it would fire up.. but whatever i do, it just wont connect via PPPoE...

LAN Status
IP Address TX Packets RX Packets TX Bytes RX Bytes
192.168.254.1 10450 14042 2349350 1406007

IPv6 Address
fe80::200:ff:fe00:0/64 (Link)

WAN Status >> Dial PPPoE
IP GW IP Mode Up Time
PPPoE 0d 00:00:00
Primary DNS Secondary DNS TX Packets RX Packets TX Bytes RX Bytes
4.2.2.1 168.95.1.1 0 0 0 0

VDSL Information firmware version: 131000
Profile State UP Speed Down Speed SNR Upstream SNR Downstream
8c Showtime 9998 36548 98 58

Does that mean you got it working?

This looks a bit of a worry "Jan 1 00:21:22 Vigor2750 daemon.err pppd[1492]: Interface eth1.2 has MTU of 1492 -- should be 1500. You may have serious connection problems."

Nah mate, i cant get it working,

like i say, VDSL comes up, and i can see my speeds, but PPPoE doesnt connect, and get an IP Address from BT so i can actually use the web.

guys who have replaced there OpenReach and Home Hub with one modem, im assuming you used PPPoE on the VDSL Router ?

Cheers,

What choices are there?

DHCP Client
Static IP
PPPoE
PPTP
L2TP

Tried them all with no success..

I cant understand it, it really should work if im getting VDSL connection, and connection information!

it's PPPoE you want, what options do you have for the negotiation (CHAP etc).

Is the firmware the latest ?

Yep latest firmware,

i dont have any authentication settings nope (pap, chap etc), theres only, username, password, clone mac (i have tried to clone the mac on my netgear i can use with the openreach modem using PPPoE, but no joy)

i read alot about VLAN tagging, ie VDSL isps require a certain VLAN Tag to be sent, i have tried the ones i have read about (tag 7, tag 20) no joy..

How about buying the Technicolor one that everyone else has working?

yeh i suppose if i cant get this working, ill have to send it back and get another...

but it makes no sense that the VDSL connection is up, but i just cant get PPPoE working, surly there is a way!

i can get access via ssh, and im pretty good with linux, i have tried editing most things, chap-secrets, pppd options, with no success (reverting to factory config lots after things dont work, to make sure i haven't completely screwed it before i try something else)

iv already bricked it once too, and had to restore firmware using tftp, and iv only had it 24 hours! lol

Cheers
Will

My personal opinion of Draytek is that they are overpriced garbage.

the VLAN tag is set on the openreach modem AIUI, you just need a PPPoE client.

It's odd, but with using the VDSL2 modem supplied I wasn't able to set up my Buffalo router manually, and didn't get a second chance as I wanted to get it going while the engineer was here.

So I went for the built-in wizard in the GUI, and it picked up everything - PPPoE, static IP, DNS etc., in s few seconds. Just gave it the logon username and password.

Does this thing of yours have a wizard? Then adjust anything you don't like afterwards?

do you have to disable the WAN interface from acting like it's an ethernet LAN connection first ? I noticed it had an address etc on a previous post. My linux box wouldn't do PPPoE to ADSL until I stopped eth0 from auto-connecting, though it was brought up by the ppp0 process anyway.

Yeh agreed,

but the Vigor 2750n is a VDSL Modem and Router in one, so it replaces the Openreach Modem.

is it possible to obtain the VLAN Tag, so i can set it on the Vigor.

The WAN connection never gets an IP address, the post above shows it has a Primary and Secondary DNS address, of which i have no idea where its getting this from!

And yeh, i have tried the Wizard on it, connects the VDSL, shows me the stats, asks me to select PPPoE or whatever, and then asks for username/password, put the usual in, (taken from home hub) but never connects.

Will

is it possible to obtain the VLAN Tag, so i can set it on the Vigor.

others have posted the setting used hereabouts, but I don't recall a VLAN tag. Come to think of it I'm not sure if the VLAN terminates at the cabinet DSLAM ie only runs on the fibre, or if it continues to the modem.

There is a SIN for the GEA FTTC interface at sinet.bt.com

Yeh, i read that, and from my limited understanding of that document! (lol) it seemed that the customer end, has to provide a VLAN Tag from 2, to 4000 odd...

i could be wrong!

googling around, found some german posts about the Vigor 2750n, that suggested to get them working on there ISP's they had to set a VLAN Tag.

tell you what though, i was monitoring the MAC's on like a mac monitoring page, and i noticed a MAC address pop up against the WAN interface, on VLAN 301 (this wasnt any of my MAC addresses either), but i hadn't configured VLAN 301 anywhere at all.

Tried setting my WAN VLAN Tag to 301, but still didn't work.

Will

I think mine was defaulted as 101, which seemed to work, but I am not with BT retail.

Hmm, ill try 101,

i put wireshark on, and that MAC that was coming in on the WAN on VLAN 301, was named "juniper"

Will

Nope,
101 doesnt work,

im at a loss, not a clue why PPPoE wornt work !

OMG i have done it!

it was 101 vlan tag, plus pppoe needed a dummy password, AND, i had to turn the MAC Cloning off (which was set to the old Netgear router)!

Will

Post deleted by maniac886

In reply to a post by willuk2010:

OMG i have done it!

it was 101 vlan tag, plus pppoe needed a dummy password, AND, i had to turn the MAC Cloning off (which was set to the old Netgear router)!

Will

Nice one.

Would you be able to write down some basic instructions if possible? I am looking to change my router as the Thomson is too buggy.

P.S Are you able to extract your stats?

Edited by maniac886 (Sat 05-Mar-11 20:24:26)

not a problem mate, ill write a guide up tomorrow!

Yep i can get stats.. wont format very well here mind..

VDSL Status
VDSL
Link Status Showtime
Firmware Version 131000
VDSL2 Profile 8c
Basic Status Upstream Downstream Unit
Actual Data Rate 9998 36682 Kb/s
SNR 89 34 0.1dB
Advance Status Upstream Downstream Unit
Actual delay 0 0 ms
Actual INP 0 0 0.1 symbols
15M CV 0 0 counter
1Day CV 49503 1349 counter
15M FEC 0 567 counter
1Day FEC 2555995 1447701 counter
Total FEC 2555995 1447701 counter
Previous Data Rate 9998 36847 Kbps
Attainable Rate 12430 36682 Kbps
Electrical Length 96 96 0.1 dB
SNR Margin 90 N/A (US0,--) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin 89 34 (US1,DS1) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin N/A 34 (US2,DS2) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin N/A N/A (US3,DS3) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin N/A N/A (US4,DS4) 0.1 dB
15M Elapsed time 145 145 secs
15M FECS 0 36 counter
15M ES 0 0 counter
15M SES 0 0 counter
15M LOSS 0 0 counter
15M UAS 0 0 counter
1Day Elapsed time 28045 28045 secs
1Day FECS 4040 3448 counter
1Day ES 16937 798 counter
1Day SES 2202 14 counter
1Day LOSS 17 8 counter
1Day UAS 209087 13335 counter
Total FECS 4040 3449 counter
Total ES 16937 798 counter
Total SES 2202 14 counter
Total LOSS 17 8 counter
Total UAS 209087 13335 counter

This any better?

In reply to a post by willuk2010:

Yep i can get stats.. wont format very well here mind..

VDSL Status   
VDSL
Link Status	Showtime
Firmware Version	131000
VDSL2 Profile	8c
Basic Status	Upstream	Downstream	Unit
Actual Data Rate	9998	36682	Kb/s
SNR	89	34	0.1dB
Advance Status	Upstream	Downstream	Unit
Actual delay	0	0	ms
Actual INP	0	0	0.1 symbols
15M CV	0	0	counter
1Day CV	49503	1349	counter
15M FEC	0	567	counter
1Day FEC	2555995	1447701	counter
Total FEC	2555995	1447701	counter
Previous Data Rate	9998	36847	Kbps
Attainable Rate	12430	36682	Kbps
Electrical Length	96	96	0.1 dB
SNR Margin	90	 N/A	(US0,--) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin	89	34	(US1,DS1) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin	N/A	34	(US2,DS2) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin	N/A	N/A	(US3,DS3) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin	N/A	N/A	(US4,DS4) 0.1 dB
15M Elapsed time	145	145	secs
15M FECS	0	36	counter
15M ES	0	0	counter
15M SES	0	0	counter
15M LOSS	0	0	counter
15M UAS	0	0	counter
1Day Elapsed time	28045	28045	secs
1Day FECS	4040	3448	counter
1Day ES	16937	798	counter
1Day SES	2202	14	counter
1Day LOSS	17	8	counter
1Day UAS	209087	13335	counter
Total FECS	4040	3449	counter
Total ES	16937	798	counter
Total SES	2202	14	counter
Total LOSS	17	8	counter
Total UAS	209087	13335	counter

Hmm. MAC cloning was prob a red herring in the first place, does it work if you don't specify the VLAN now the password issue has been spotted ?

Nope, just tried moving it off VLAN 101, and onto the default (which was 2) and it disconnected my PPPoE connection... set it back to 101 and im connected again.

So in short, to get the Vigor 2750n working,

1) Plug the Rj11 into the wall, plug your computer/laptop in using a LAN Cable
2) The admin page is on 192.168.1.1, default user = admin, password = admin
1) Once logged in, click Quick Start Wizard, and set up your router (nothing unusual here, just password change, timezone, etc), set the WAN to PPPoE, enter your bthomehub username, and a dummy password (1234 i put in) and leave everything else as default
2) Go to the WAN section, then Multi-VLAN and put a tick in "Enable Multi-VLAN Setup", set the WAN VLAN ID to 101 and click ok
4) go to the Online Status Page, and check that you have green LAN/WAN and VDSL!

Thats all there was too it.

Cheers
Will

just tried moving it off VLAN 101, and onto the default (which was 2) and it disconnected my PPPoE connection

what happens if you untick the multi-VLAN option ?

Same, disconnects PPPoE!

Cheers for that, I was going to go for that model but I have just seen the price! These VDSL2 modem/routers aren't cheap!

Just to update the thread:

DrayTek Vigor 2750n - £201.97 delivered here by an Amazon UK market seller. Router confirmed as working with FTTC, settings provided by willuk2010 in this post.

I wonder if that might help the fritz!box user who was also struggling with PPoE?

Yes, me too.

I found German instructions on how to modify the Fritz config files using FBEdit - the GUI doesn't allow selection of a VLAN, but the config files (which are essentially Linux-based) do.

The Germans have to do that for Telekom resale VDSL accounts (e.g. from Vodafone), so I'm fairly hopeful that this will work now that we know the correct VLAN ID 101.

As I am German, understand the instructions, have a Fritz!Box 7390 and have an Infinity enablement date of 16/03 now, I am going to give this a try. If it works, I will report back here with instructions in English. I am going to wait for the training period to be over on the Openreach modem however, just in case my Fritz! testing messes with the RAS profile. So it will probably be April by the time I know...

Just back to my original issue, of dropouts... im wondering if this has something to do with it,

I was just watching the VDSL stats, on and off while watching TV, and i noticed.

Upstream Downstream
15M FEC 0 331323 counter
1Day FEC 0 710956 counter
Total FEC 2555995 7914401 counter

One would assume, 331 thousand FEC's in 15 minutes isnt good ?

Will

Are you currently using TBB's ping monitor? Have you noticed a pattern at all to the dropouts?

Sorry mate, whats tbb's ping monitor?

this is the dropouts i have logged so far, i cant seem to see a pattern..

Mar 7 14:35:37 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[3616]: Connect time 61.9 minutes.
Mar 7 19:00:28 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[7390]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 7 19:00:28 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[7390]: Connect time 264.0 minutes.
Mar 8 10:06:41 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[20244]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 8 10:06:41 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[20244]: Connect time 905.3 minutes.
Mar 8 10:41:46 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[20244]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 8 10:41:46 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[20244]: Connect time 34.5 minutes.
Mar 8 11:09:44 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[4003]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 8 11:09:44 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[4003]: Connect time 27.3 minutes.
Mar 8 16:51:24 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[17022]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 8 16:51:24 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[17022]: Connect time 340.8 minutes.
Mar 8 18:01:31 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[25104]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 8 18:01:31 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[25104]: Connect time 69.2 minutes.
Mar 8 18:02:27 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[11873]: Connect time 0.2 minutes.
Mar 8 18:46:16 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[12684]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 8 18:46:16 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[12684]: Connect time 43.7 minutes.
Mar 8 22:07:52 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[26135]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 8 22:07:52 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[26135]: Connect time 200.8 minutes.
Mar 9 09:23:18 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[32363]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 9 09:23:18 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[32363]: Connect time 139.4 minutes.
Mar 9 06:02:55 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[15432]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 9 06:02:55 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[15432]: Connect time 362.5 minutes.
Mar 9 07:03:10 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[998]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 9 07:03:10 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[998]: Connect time 59.4 minutes.
Mar 9 16:31:17 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[13871]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.
Mar 9 16:31:17 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[13871]: Connect time 427.0 minutes.
Mar 9 17:09:59 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[9835]: Serial link appears to be disconnected.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping

If you have a static I.P you will be able to monitor your connection, usually when you have dropouts you will see a large amount of packet loss. I had a similar issue with drop outs but then found a distinct pattern to the drop outs on a daily basis. I contacted my neighbours who I found out were having a similar issue. Looks like REIN was causing the connections to drop out. After leafleting my local neighbourhood with my findings the REIN and drop outs vanished.

I would monitor your connection over a week or so and note down the days and times the drop outs occur, the TBB monitor will help you to achieve this.

Ah cool ok,

Set one up, but im on Dynamic IP.. so when it drops me, and i reconnect its gonna loose it track anyway!

Cheers
Will

Quark,

Please post if you work it out!

LJ

I'm interested in your findings also. Would be nice to see if there any performance improvements or stability issues with a different vdsl modem.

Hi Quark999,

Did you have success configuring the Fritz to get PPPoE working on VLAN 101?

I might give it a shot this weekend - I have had it installed a week ago, so it should have had sufficient time to set the correct BRAS (or whatever it is now) speed. From what I understand, it is not strictly 10 days anymore...

In terms of stability/performance, it is already rock solid with the Openreach modem, and I'm on the maximum up/downstream profiles, so I'm not sure how much the Fritz box will add, but it would still be nice to have everything in one box

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers Quark,
I just fancy seeing my stats, as my download rate flucates a fair bit.
It would be nice to get some stats as line stability seems fine (I think) but the download speed is a roller coaster.

I have the same problem, but if the sync remains stable then surely it is a bottleneck somewhere on the network? I doubt that the statistics would show anything, as either there will be sync or there won't be. Slower download speeds should be reflected in a slower sync...

In reply to a post by Quark999:

I have the same problem, but if the sync remains stable then surely it is a bottleneck somewhere on the network? I doubt that the statistics would show anything, as either there will be sync or there won't be. Slower download speeds should be reflected in a slower sync...

But as with the BT modem you don't know your sync .... The nearest you can get is your IP profile from a BT speed test.

Totally agree with both of you there, it's just nice to see what's going on, especially when people are having issues. With Adsl when people have problems one of the first things others ask is "what are your modem stats".

In reply to a post by colesy10:

Totally agree with both of you there, it's just nice to see what's going on, especially when people are having issues. With Adsl when people have problems one of the first things others ask is "what are your modem stats".

Except without being rude about it to the poster, I was meaning that "I doubt that the statistics would show anything, as either there will be sync or there won't be" is rubbish.

As you say - the stats are vital to speed problem diagnosis.

Point taken - I hadn't taken into account that with the OR Modem you actually don't even know your sync speed, because I'm synced at the max anyway and don't need to worry about it.

However, in my defense, you should still be able to determine your sync speed from the profile setting, and if there is a huge gap between your actual speeds and the profile setting, then in all likelihood the statistics won't help you as the problem will be elsewhere.

The statistics will only help if your profile setting is much lower than what you would expect, because that in turn should mean the sync speed is lower as well - or the profile got something wrong...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

As you say - the stats are vital to speed problem diagnosis.

100% agree there. A modem that you couldn't get information from was perhaps acceptable back in 2000, but its a joke now - and with experience of self-install ADSL, BT ought to know that.

I collect my DSL stats in a program (OK, web-app) called "cacti", which holds the data in RRDtool datafiles, and helps you make graphs of the data. RRD means it stores lots of data for the last 2 days, middling for last two months, and small amounts for the last 2 years.

It's going to be a shame to lose this as I swap to fibre. Anyone got any ideas how to automate the BT speed tester? That way I can at least grab BT's copy of the IP profile.

There are two or three VDSL routers about that people have used in order to get their stats. Quite a bit of discussion about it at the time - late last year or early this year. The early part of this thread I expect.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 02-Apr-11 17:27:44)

Just to update Quark999 has written an excellent guide which explains how to get the Fritz!Box 7390 working with FTTC. Link here

So what is the verdict on the DrayTek Vigor 2750n? Does it work or not? I would like to replace all my current network equipment with this one solution.

Sorry for resurrecting this one, I was going to start a new thread but the history of this one helps expand it.

Thinking of trying a 2750n (for no reason other than to replace two boxes with one!) - and the prices have come down a little (available for £158.65 inc free P&P here )

Is anyone still using one and if so, what is their opinion now that a little time had passed?

I take it that nobody persevered with the DrayTek Vigor 2750n then? If that's the case - any particular reasons why?

I haven't tried this myself, but look at:

BT Infinity setup instructions for Vigor 2750n

There was a similar guide earlier in the thread by someone who bought got one. I was wondering if those that already had them had persevered and whether it offered decent performance or not. I don't want to push on and get one before hearing views from those who have already tried it..........

I have just got (today) the Draytek 2750n and had it up and running in less than 5 minutes - early opinion is that its a great piece of kit.

Key for me was tidying up the cabling and power supply mess by ditching the wholesale VDSL model amd HomeHub3 and of course access to more stats than I frankly understand. Line speed and error rates are franly all I'm interested in.

My Openreach modem went faulty, so while I was waiting for a replacement I bought a Vigor 2750n.

It's been connected just over a day and so far seems to be pretty good. Only took 5 mins to get it connected after seeing the VLAN info in this thread

Have you noticed any difference in speed, sync or profile when compaired to the 'official' kit?

TIA

DrT

Yeah, for what it cost I'm not completely satisfied with it as you can see from THIS post here. It seems to have faulty wireless anyway, the signal is terrible even up close.

I'm going to return it and see if they'll send me a Billion Bipac 8200n instead.

I have been searching for an answer to a strange issue I have been experiencing and it looks like it lies with the modem but since you guys all know a hell of a lot about modems/routers and in general everything to do with the internet, why not ask here.

I am finding that according to all 'open port check' websites, pretty much every port is refused or closed.

I am using the BT modem and homehub 3 with FTTC broadband.

I have tried everything on the router and even removed it from the equation, connecting my PC directly to the modem. No luck.

I have since noticed that the modem actually has a built in firewall but had been dumbed down so much that it is completely locked out so there is no webpage for it etc...

I am wondering whether I am correct in thinking that this is my modem causing this issue....

The main reason I want to open specific ports is for the ability to host games online but unfortunatly I am unable to do so.

Any help would be appreciated and I apologise if this is completely off-topic!