Trouble with idnet FTTC

Hi my name is keith

From july last year i have been a customer of IDNET on the FTTC,i have been on the top package.On till about a week ago the broadband was very good,low ping (20ms)very good speed about 37mbps download and about 8mbps upload,this made gaming very good which i do alot of.Now the problem which started about a week ago is the broadband keeps droping out and the ping gos anywhere from 28ms to about 120-130ms,the bt speed tester says my ip profile is 32mbps(it was 38.5mbps)and the upload has not changed.I keep on getting kicked out of games i am playing.Doing something as simple as watching the BBC IPLAYER is awful now because it is always buffering,now i have spoke to IDNET 4 or 5 times from last week and its the same old story,they say if the BT SPEEDTESTER says im getting a ip profile of 32mbps everything must be ok(so they say lol).Anybody with a bit of sense knows that you need more than pure speed for gaming.So each time i phoned them they told me the same thing just to get me off the phone,at one point they put me on to someone called simon and he told me it was my wireless phone beside my modem so i moved it,and guess what its still the same...........Can anyone help me cause IDNET dont want too.......


I am a member of this Forum i have just forgot my password

THANKS SABOO1690

why not set up the broadband quality monitor to see what packet loss and ping looks like.

I am having a similar issue at the moment, I.P profile has dropped and pings have doubled, sometimes tripled at some points during the day. Sometimes The BT speedtests state I get 20Meg down but then I can't play youtube videos as they buffer. Luckily I have an BT Openreach engineer coming tomorrow to have a look. I will report back after he/she has left.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

why not set up the broadband quality monitor to see what packet loss and ping looks like.

Thx
i have setup the broadband quality monitor.I will see how it gets on and post on here later


Thanks
saboo1690

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Thx
i have setup the broadband quality monitor.I will see how it gets on and post on here later

When I first set it up, the timescale on the x-axis was unreliable for the first 24 hours, ie until it had 24 hours data to work on. So don't get too puzzled by that if it happens, just look at the pattern on the graph.

Tip - clicking on the small graph causes it to open a larger window and update at that time.

So the first post here was from myself(i got my password sorted lol)


So here is the Graph from the Broadband Quality Monitor it has been running from about 2pm yesterday(14th).If someone could take a look and tell me what they think please


http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/a5cc3c2dae6...


Thanks

Edited by deleted (Tue 15-Feb-11 08:20:22)

Were you doing any downloading or gaming during the night?

Is the wireless connection on your router well-secured?

What does your IDNet usage show up as?

Hi robertoS

Yes my router is well-secured and my pc is wired not wireless.I stoped any internet use from about 8:30pm(14th)to about 8:00am this morning(15th).As you can see from the graph there is something going on between these times.This might be the problem.I cant see my IDNet usage for this till tomorrow because it runs on a 24hr cycle from 12:00am


Thanks

How your PC is connected to the router is irrelevant. In fact if you don't use wireless it is possible you have never looked at the wireless. (Ah - checking for typos before posting I see you say it is well secured. I'd missed that. I'll leave the rest of my reply though as others may read it and it can't be said too often!).

Check it .

No security is obviously bad. WEP, which many default to, is cracked within 30 seconds by loads of easily available free software.

WAP2 with a complex key is best.

About to join IDNet so knew there was a usage monitor, not that it was a daily update.

Im sorry i should have said from the start of this,i turned my wireless off last night when i started the Broadband Quality Monitor and its still off now.But when it was on it was on a WAP2 setting.So last night nothing was on the router,the only thing that was active was the Broadband Quality Monitor..........




Thanks

LIke I said, I typed all the guff before I realised it didn't apply to you .

Very odd graph, as you say. See how it goes though.

How about trying safe mode (with networking of course).

Just incase it's some sort of root kit sat on your PC?

In reply to a post by danielowenuk:

How about trying safe mode (with networking of course).

Just incase it's some sort of root kit sat on your PC?

I will try this,but when the tests were running through the night the P.C was off any way......

seems to show a step increase in minimum latency about 3pm - probably a bit more interleaving or INP being added in by Openreach DLM ?

ISP congestion tends to look like this note there isn't much packet loss along the top (red) but the minimum latency goes up when traffic is being buffered to squeeze through a small hole.

My other line doesn't suffer in the same way and you see the blue and yellow go up together when you're using the line. (ignore the outages, that's me learning IPv6)

the packet loss on yours isn't good, are there other IDNet FTTC or even IDnet users to compare (perhaps ask in their forum section and link back to this thread ?)

Several IDNet customers are seeing this (including me), the cause seems obscure but is being investigated.

You might like to go over to the (unofficial) IDNet support forum and put in your two penn'orth

In reply to a post by saboo1690:

In reply to a post by danielowenuk:

How about trying safe mode (with networking of course).

Just incase it's some sort of root kit sat on your PC?

I will try this,but when the tests were running through the night the P.C was off any way......

Sorry this is simply my ignorance of the quality checker I thought it was client side

I have sent the graph off to IDNET this morning i will wait and see what comes back.If its anything like the past week i dont think there is much hope of a fix of the problem.......

Thanks very much for everyones input and quick replies


saboo1690

might just be a sign that idnet are over stretching themselves.

Interesting thread. Here is my graph.

I had nothing running on my network since midnight. (router only)

Also IDNET.

worth tracerouting to the BQM tester (MTR preferably) as some of the packet loss is sometimes specific to the last hops to the tester, as opposed to being an ISP or local issue.

In reply to a post by orly:

might just be a sign that idnet are over stretching themselves.

Is it not congestion on the WBC links into the ISP ?

In reply to a post by saboo1690:

So the first post here was from myself(i got my password sorted lol)


So here is the Graph from the Broadband Quality Monitor it has been running from about 2pm yesterday(14th).If someone could take a look and tell me what they think please


http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/a5cc3c2dae6...


Thanks

is fttc interleaved only? so far every single tbb graph I have seen of a fttc line has high base latency and packet loss.

is fttc interleaved only?

it has multiple levels of INP and interleaving, and three ISP stability profiles that affect the use of the former.

Hopefully it's OK now.

As I indicated earlier, the cause was being investigated and some remedial work was performed this morning.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

so far every single tbb graph I have seen of a fttc line has high base latency and packet loss.

Just to fill a hole in your life :

My Broadband Ping

It's not current, shortly after that the DLM turned interleave on and jacked my base latency up to ~20ms

Edited by billford (Wed 16-Feb-11 10:56:31)

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

so far every single tbb graph I have seen of a fttc line has high base latency and packet loss.

Just to fill a hole in your life :

My Broadband Ping

It's not current, shortly after that the DLM turned interleave on and jacked my base latency up to ~20ms

looks better yeah, still issue with packet loss tho.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

still issue with packet loss tho.

Packet loss is around 0.1% or less during the evening... hardly an issue.


edit- the two spikes in the morning were re syncs.

further edit- the two bad bits around 1pm and 6pm were (I'm fairly sure) early signs of the problem that has been the subject of this thread.

Edited by billford (Wed 16-Feb-11 18:43:14)

Was someone up at 6am fixing something?

today's graph

In reply to a post by woooshuk:

Was someone up at 6am fixing something?

today's graph

Yup. And for a bit before that I gather.

From yesterday's RSS status feed:

Service: Announcement
Updated: 2011-02-15 11:02:06
State: Good Service
Message: We will be performing some essential maintenance on a core router in Telehouse tomorrow morning 16/02/11 06:00 to 06:30. Traffic will be re-routed during that period.

The router needed a severe talking-to

In reply to a post by woooshuk:

Was someone up at 6am fixing something?

today's graph

Taken from Simons (IDNET) post on Idnetters -

We think we may have found a common denominator and so we're going to reboot one of our core routers - telehouse-gw5 - tomorrow morning. Traffic wil be routed through other routers whilst it's offline but we'll do it at the quietest time of the day, 6am, just to minimise any disruption.

Beat ya by 5 seconds

I was trying to find a picture for "Who is this?" as Glenn keeps getting them right too quickly!

FWIW here's mine so far. IDNET, profile was 31Meg since Sept, but sometime over Christmas dropped to 28 Meg

My Broadband Ping

Ignore the first hour, hadn't enabled ping response on my router.

The internet connection was in use until 11pm, is that why the max ping settles down after that point ? Big spike at 4:15am though !

Edited by broadbandjockey (Thu 17-Feb-11 07:12:49)

Keith

You might like to look at this thread from the IDNet forums. It might help to explain the issues and what IDNet have done to resolve the issue for other users.

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24...

is that why the max ping settles down after that point

yes, this type of graph always shows that effect of load. I imagine it is because router CPUs are busier doing routing rather than replying to pings ? or the ping packets are queued up in other traffic perhaps.

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

The internet connection was in use until 11pm, is that why the max ping settles down after that point ?

Pretty normal looking trace... as Phil said, the ping settles down when your router is less busy.

But the effect is quite marked on yours... were you downloading most of the evening? If not, then I'd guess your router only has 10/100Mbps ports with a corresponding processor, and it's struggling a bit to keep up with an FTTC connection. It's not uncommon to see a significant increase in speed if the router is changed for one with gigabit ports.

For comparison, here's mine: My Broadband Ping

Big spike at 4:15am though !

Spikes happen . Only worth investigating if they're regular.

Edited by billford (Thu 17-Feb-11 08:18:32)

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

The internet connection was in use until 11pm, is that why the max ping settles down after that point ?

Pretty normal looking trace... as Phil said, the ping settles down when your router is less busy.

But the effect is quite marked on yours... were you downloading most of the evening? If not, then I'd guess your router only has 10/100Mbps ports with a corresponding processor, and it's struggling a bit to keep up with an FTTC connection. It's not uncommon to see a significant increase in speed if the router is changed for one with gigabit ports.

Yes, it's just a Netgear WG614, nothing fancy. Nothing heavy going on last night with traffic, me surfing the web and Usenet, the wife on Facebook, and (most significantly) both our teenage sons out for the evening

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

Yes, it's just a Netgear WG614, nothing fancy.

Yeah, that's got 10/100 ports. If you're happy with the speeds you're getting then it's not worth upgrading, but a point to bear in mind for the future.

and (most significantly) both our teenage sons out for the evening

Ah, yes, that's likely to have much more effect than the speed of your WAN port

Edited by billford (Thu 17-Feb-11 09:54:09)

Just to let people know,two weeks have gone by from my first post about the trouble with
my FTTC and it has settled down now,the ping has went back to where it was(about 18ms-19ms)from where it had been(between 32ms -130ms)for a reason only know to itself.
There is one thing for sure IDNET had nothing to do with it.And also when i seen the ping had got better i re-booted the modem and my ip profile went up to 37.5MBPS with know help from them at all........

So thanks everyone for there input


Saboo1690

My tbb BQM graph was basically just murmurs above an average of 11ms for my first few days, Feb 18-21,then started going odd on the afternoon of 22, then very erratic till just before midnight this morning.

Now flat again.

How do you know it wasn't IDNet? I tried to pin it down but failed.

In reply to a post by saboo1690:

And also when i seen the ping had got better i re-booted the modem and my ip profile went up to 37.5MBPS with know help from them at all........

That's down to BT's DLM, nothing whatever to do with your ISP, whoever they are!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

My tbb BQM graph was basically just murmurs above an average of 11ms for my first few days, Feb 18-21,then started going odd on the afternoon of 22, then very erratic till just before midnight this morning.

Now flat again.

Mine was bonkers all of yesterday, overnight. No PCs connected until noon, or after 22:00hrs. Finally settled down at Midnight

My Broadband Ping

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by saboo1690:

And also when i seen the ping had got better i re-booted the modem and my ip profile went up to 37.5MBPS with know help from them at all........

That's down to BT's DLM, nothing whatever to do with your ISP, whoever they are!

I know it was BT's DLM bill,i left the modem on for 2 weeks and then re-booted it this morning so i could re-set my ip profile,that wasnt the problem,the ping was the problem.From about
12:00 last night it settled and everything was fine again........

There was a problem with the ping that IDNET refused to address or admit to for what ever reason i dont know,but its back to a better level now.

I was just saying i didnt get any help off them........

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

My tbb BQM graph was basically just murmurs above an average of 11ms for my first few days, Feb 18-21,then started going odd on the afternoon of 22, then very erratic till just before midnight this morning.

Now flat again.

How do you know it wasn't IDNet? I tried to pin it down but failed.

It sounds to me that alot of people on IDNET FTTC were having the same problem roberto.
The thing is why did IDNET not address the problem,im sure i wasnt the only one too ring them inside the last two weeks.........

why did IDNET not address the problem,im sure i wasnt the only one too ring them inside the last two weeks

Note the dates mine was OK, 18-21 Feb, so maybe your connection had a specific other problem as well as this seemingly recent short-term one?

In reply to a post by saboo1690:

It sounds to me that alot of people on IDNET FTTC were having the same problem

There was a problem (not just FTTC users) that took some tracking down, that was cleared a week or so ago when a core router was rebooted (Link). The last few days seem to have been down to BT, users of other ISPs have seen the same thing and I was getting a lot of BT 21CN incident reports yesterday.

The thing is why did IDNET not address the problem

It took a little while to convince them that the one mentioned above was an IDNet problem (to be fair, it wasn't obvious initially), but then they found and fixed it. If your problem has been between 17th and a few days ago, I wouldn't be too sure that it was IDNet at fault.

Edited by billford (Fri 25-Feb-11 11:26:31)

In reply to a post by saboo1690:

i left the modem on for 2 weeks and then re-booted it this morning so i could re-set my ip profile

Just noticed that... you don't need to reboot the modem to do that, the DLM that's used on FTTC decides for itself if a resync (and hence a profile reset) is appropriate and force one.

Even if you're in the middle of a download at the time

If you run tbb's BQM you can see the brief spike of packet loss as the connection drops and is remade (check your router log to get the exact time if you want). It does it on my line every few days- sometimes my profile goes up significantly, sometimes it goes down again .

Edited by billford (Fri 25-Feb-11 11:45:56)

So far as I know my line/sync/profile hasn't dropped at any time. The last PPPoE entry was late 18 Feb when I finally got the settings as I wanted them.

What should I look for, as my logs will be different style from yours?

IP Profile on all BT speed tests, even very slow ones, has remained at 37817 or whatever it is.

My profile stayed at 38717 from when I started (late August) until just before Christmas, when it dropped to ~34000. It went back up to nearly full speed in mid-Jan, stayed there (but still with a few resyncs) for about 10 days then dropped back again to ~33500, varying by a few hundred at each resync. Not sure why... quite possibly cross-talk noise as the take-up on my cabinet increases. Latency has switched between ~10ms and ~20ms as the DLM turns interleave on or off.

As to what to look for- a resync today at about 08:35- My Broadband Ping

(The big red spike yesterday was me playing around)

Shows in the log as:

.
.
Feb 25 08:35:36	Severity:5	Disconnected.
Feb 25 08:36:42	Severity:5	Connection established 212.69.xxx.xxx -> 212.69.xxx.xxx.
.
.

Yes, your log looks similar to where I pick up the DNS servers on the PPPoE log.

Not had an similar packet-loss spike here.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

My tbb BQM graph was basically just murmurs above an average of 11ms for my first few days, Feb 18-21,then started going odd on the afternoon of 22, then very erratic till just before midnight this morning.

Now flat again.

How do you know it wasn't IDNet? I tried to pin it down but failed.

the best FTTC graph I seen

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

My tbb BQM graph was basically just murmurs above an average of 11ms for my first few days, Feb 18-21,then started going odd on the afternoon of 22, then very erratic till just before midnight this morning.

Now flat again.

How do you know it wasn't IDNet? I tried to pin it down but failed.

the best FTTC graph I seen

I note the red fringe with interest. Maybe firebrick has another problem?

the best FTTC graph I seen

How strange!

I'm sure that was a "snapshot" graph. At the time of posting and a while after it was showing a few hours of medium turmoil before midnight, but it has changed to a midnight >> midnight one.

I shall check if that happens, today and tomorrow.

Anyway, the start 22 Feb, the packet loss at the start is the start of off-peak.
23 Feb
24 Feb
Then the one you now see in the original post.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How strange!

I'm sure that was a "snapshot" graph.

The word "snapshot" is misleading... it will continue to update until midnight then stop.

If you want a true snapshot you'll have to do a <right-click, save as> or a screen grab.

Thanks Bill.

Odd though, as there is a "Live graph" option? Or do I dimly remember you bringing this up in its early days?

Good memory

Yes, the only difference between the "Live" and "Snapshot" graphs is that the snapshot stops updating at midnight, the live one keeps going forever!

yeah its not perfect and especially the ones for the older days are not good. But your last one is significantly better than other FTTC graphs

idnet overstretching themselves with FTTC?

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

yeah its not perfect and especially the ones for the older days are not good. But your last one is significantly better than other FTTC graphs

idnet overstretching themselves with FTTC?

No.

As I said earlier, from connection on 18 Feb till that start of the trouble it was just as flat all the way. The only thing I do that hits the latency is speed testing, and even then thh test is a small spike. BT, with 16 threads, is a high spike.