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Further to Yarwells idea in the other thread, I created an initial mockup matrix of the various ISPs. I've now changed it to have the ISPs down the side to allow for more compact viewing.
Both myself and Yarwell are able to edit this online at Google Docs. I'm happy to add anyone else who isn't a time-waster to the list of editors so that, in collaboration, it can be updated or errors fixed. If you want access, PM me or leave a message on this thread. You need some sort of Google account from the looks of it to get access.
The list can be viewed online @ http://bit.ly/f3il0d
Feel free to point out any errors or ideas on how it could be improved.
Thanks
---
BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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BT Business options are missing.
http://business.bt.com/broadband-and-internet/intern...
You also need to indicate if prices are inc/ex VAT
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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As it says, it's not an exhaustive list. Hoping others will be interested in adding to it where necessary.
All prices are with VAT or VAT added. Could split it into 2 sheets, one for home and one for business and have the business list exc. VAT?
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT Edited by orly (Wed 09-Mar-11 17:43:49)
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Post deleted by MHC
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Is Timico 24 month contract ? http://www.timico.co.uk/soho/ip_connectivity/fibre_b...
I've tweaked it on that basis, put the 50 GB across both peak and off-peak and added the per GB extra column.
Is the single GB allowance clear in its meaning ?
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Yes, seems better that way.
Actually watched you doing it in realtime. Nifty site is Google Docs.
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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Could split it into 2 sheets, one for home and one for business and have the business list exc. VAT?
that would make sense. Perhaps a price break between business and residential too for those suppliers with a single (expensive) offering ?
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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I don't like the split columns, makes filtering impossible.
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suggestions ? Having N/A in one of the columns isn't correct IMHO. It's hardly of a size where filtering is necessary TBH.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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must have been a bad post !
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A thought : could we use 15-40 and 5-40 downstream to differentiate those taking slower orders ? A column of 40's is a bit redundant.
How to handle elevated best efforts - the Zen Office service is a higher priority option as well as a faster upstream option.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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For some reason it duplicated the first one I made!
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Hi.
On the AAISP price you can get 2/100 which would bring it up to the minimum 2 units included in your pricing on the spreadsheet.
Gary
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I was editing the AAISP entry, can you check it is now correct esp inc VAT price etc.
It is a bit complex to fully represent in a simple way.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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A single sheet would be better with Home at the top and Business below as there are some home users who choose Business packages.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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I think you had the price right before. I was going to mention it but realised you had probably added the premium cost to bring the upload up to 10Meg. You are currently quoting the 2Meg upload price so need to add back on £10.21.
It looks like 1 extra unit (2GB or 100GB) is an extra £3.60 on FTTC.
That equates to an extra £1.80 per peak GB or per 50GB offpeak usage.
Edit.. The per GB prices above are charged if you purchase in advance through your tariff.
The price on your spreadsheet of £5.64 is the one used if you are over your allowance at the end of the month by more than your prepaid allowance i.e if prepaying for 2 units you can go over by 2 before being charged at the higher rate. Under and over usage up to your unit tariff can be carried forward.
Your prices do include VAT
Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Mar-11 19:12:19)
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A thought : could we use 15-40 and 5-40 downstream to differentiate those taking slower orders ? A column of 40's is a bit redundant.
How to handle elevated best efforts - the Zen Office service is a higher priority option as well as a faster upstream option. Aquiss and ADSL24 at least take 5Mbps orders, and of course there is the supposed Infinity Option 3.
Xil/uno prices are available through their online checker.
Spitfire have some info here.
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Introduce another column.
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I've used the overage price rather than the prepay price for extra GB.
The £29.65 is the 2M option that comes up on the web page, have now added a row for the 10M upstream which is also priority / elevated best efforts service.
I added a note to GB price box - see how people feel about the use of notes ?
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. Edited by yarwell (Wed 09-Mar-11 19:15:34)
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OK. Was editing my post as you wrote that.
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Where you getting our charges from for extra GB? Currently it's not right at all.
Our current published rate starts at £1.02 (inc VAT) per GB
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Where you getting our charges from for extra GB?
after spending far too long looking for it on your web site ! Google site search found me £1/GB plus a £2.50 charge buried somewhere which is probably from a while back.
Perhaps you should put it into this bit :-
"Exceeding Allowances Advisory
If you go over your agreed monthly peak allowance you will still be able to access the Internet for an additional period of time. However, both peak and non peak speeds will be reduced to a maximum of 128 kbps at all times for a further 1 GB beyond your agreed package allowance.
If the exceeding of an allowance takes place you can continue at the reduced speed until the usage resets itself, based on your billing date, or purchase an allowance top-up at any time.
Top-Up Allowances, if purchased, last until it has been used up, irrespective of how long it takes to use them. In other words, as long as you remain a customer, any portion of the bandwidth top-up that remains at the end of each month will be carried over and available for use the next month and so on."
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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What are the Notes 1 & 2 below the Business prices? Are they re the AAISP Home prices, as there is the vertical sans serif of an opening bracket at the right-hand side of the extra GB column for them.
Also in a post in the first thread I pointed out that IDNet do an annual sub at a discount of 8.3%.
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pass, Orly's working on them now I think
the bracket on the AAISP as an artefact of having a note on the cell.
There's an asterisk on two upstream services with premium priority too.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Yarwell, I take your point, however it's a fine balance between keeping things simple and overloading someone with information. I will however see how we can get this into the site.
However, a quick PM to me would have got my attention. I'm a friendly sort of chap and would have saved you eye strain 
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"or purchase an allowance top-up at any time at £1.02 per GB" - would fit nicely and use some white space.
Actually can you clarify the full pricing of additional data please, I just twigged that "from £1.02" may mean the first GB is a lot more than that.
I prefer to take published live info and have the crowd correct it. Thanks for the correction.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. Edited by yarwell (Wed 09-Mar-11 19:31:41)
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Am I right in assuming for business products this is charged at 85p per GB (exc VAT) or are there different provisions?
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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I think it's where you added "comments"
When it parses it for viewers of the completed page, it displays them differently.
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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Hi Yarwell,
Home versions are from £1.02 (where 100GB is purchased up front) on a sliding scale to £1.56 (where 10GB is purchased up front). ie: the more purchased, the bigger discount we offer.
Hopefully that makes sense?
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Hi Orly,
Business versions are from £0.85 (ex VAT) (where 100GB is purchased up front) on a sliding scale to £1.30 (ex VAT) (where 10GB is purchased up front). ie: the more purchased, the bigger discount we offer.
Hopefully that makes sense?
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So you can't buy it by the GB. It means you're advertising something you don't sell.
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I see that now, yes. Comments look to be a bad idea.
Should the Zen Fibre Office product move to "Business" @ £66/mo ?
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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So you can't buy it by the GB. It means you're advertising something you don't sell.
Please quote exactly where we state or have stated that we sell by the GB? Yarwell and Orly are correctly looking to show a means to show a comparison for those viewing the document, which I have supplied.
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Zen seem to make no distinction between products. You just quoted a price that includes or excludes VAT depending on whether you view it via Home or Business tabs. The packages seem identical to me.
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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So you can't buy it by the GB. It means you're advertising something you don't sell.
Please quote exactly where we state or have stated that we sell by the GB?
Odd question... here you go: "Business versions are from £0.85 (ex VAT)"
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[quoteHopefully that makes sense? ]
yes. For consistency I'll enter that as £15.60/10GB
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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So are the only options blocks of 10GB and 100GB or are there others in between.
Just want to make sure it's accurate.
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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fair enough. It was the price and the elevated best efforts that made it look like "Business" to me but many of these products are user agnostic.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Hi Orly,
It's prob easier if I give you the full rundown, thus you can then display as yourself and Yarwell feel is best
All prices below are ex VAT
Top-Up 10 10 GB Broadband Usage Overuse Top-Up
£13.00
Top-Up 25 25 GB Broadband Usage Overuse Top-Up
£25.00
Top-Up 50 50 GB Broadband Usage Overuse Top-Up
£45.00
Top-Up 75 75 GB Broadband Usage Overuse Top-Up
£65.00
Top-Up 100 100 GB Broadband Usage Overuse Top-Up
£85.00
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thanks, £15.60/10GB it is.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Any carry-over Martin, or does it die at month-end?
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Any carry-over Martin, or does it die at month-end?
Unused top-ups amounts carry over, month to month.
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Can I suggest a clarity mod  .
Now all the packages per ISP have been added, plus in my case horizontal scrolling, it is getting hard to track across the lines. You could usefully either band lines in groups of five, (that seems in general an optimal number), or by ISP, with every other set having (the same) background colour. One background could of course be the current one.
I think groups of five would work best, as easier on the eye, but you may find it better by ISP when experimenting. A third way would of course be simple alternating line backgrounds.
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In remaining whole GBs presumably?
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I'm actually applying "rules" to highlight "good" stuff green and less good stuff an orange colour. Can't really colour code each ISP differently because of this.
I agree it can be hard to scan the lines...trying to figure a way to make it easier. One option is to duplicate the ISP and package on the right hand side too?
What screen resolution are you using?
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT Edited by orly (Wed 09-Mar-11 21:15:29)
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1280 x 800, 15.4" laptop with browser restricted to approx 11.6" width, to leave the Vista sidebar/gadgets visible. (Think I said that bit before).
Ouch - just gone for another look.
I think you are trying to do too much analysis for the reader there, with all that colouring.
I thought the earlier effort, re IP address, 10/2Mbps upload, and contract length was good. That now looks like a quarter-completed jigsaw, and the reader actually has to start wondering what the colours mean, instead of it being obvious.
Given the usefulness of the ones I approve of though, I think your best option may be a simple blank row between ISPs.
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I'm actually applying "rules" to highlight "good" stuff green and less good stuff an orange colour.
Is that wise? Should it not be left to those reading to determine what they think is good/filter for their requirements? Your good, could be someone else's less good etc
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Distinguishes simply
eg between 2Mbit and 10Mbit upload
Whether uploads is metered or unmetered
Static IP Yes or No
Contract 12 months or more
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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All usage (monthly and top-ups) are already shown and worked out to 2 decimal places. We don't round up or down figures, we give and present exactly as consumed. We like to think thats fairer
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I'm actually applying "rules" to highlight "good" stuff green and less good stuff an orange colour.
Is that wise? Should it not be left to those reading to determine what they think is good/filter for their requirements? Your good, could be someone else's less good etc
I would have agreed with you in the previous incarnation, but now it has reverted to the completely columnar highlighting I think it is helpful. It doesn't convey good/bad to me, merely the two variants in each column.
The prices version with blotches in seemingly random places was confusing, and as you say open to differing opinions re good/bad.
With my recommended blank lines I think we now have a very reader-friendly layout.
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That's exceptionally good.
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Great stuff, many congrats on taking the time - both of you!
When you get chance, could our Business packages be added? They are listed at http://adsl24.co.uk/broadband/fibre/ - and are identified by the package name "Office"
Thanks
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For the office packages, are the prices still quoted with VAT included?
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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Looking Good ...
How about an active link at the top to jump down to Business? Someone will see the list and not know that Business is at the bottom of the page.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Not sure how to do that with the interface provided. It's basically a stripped down spreadsheet and it's associated options.
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT |
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Maybe just add to the Residential heading, the existence of which implies but doesn't guarantee a Business one). Perhaps Residential (scroll down for Business)? But with that bit in normal font, not bold large.
It's not as if it's a long way so a link becomes important. But MHC has a point about making it more obvious.
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Yes, the price shown includes VAT for all packages
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Yes, I think
1. Column for Residential / Business
2. All prices should include VAT
3. No joint columns - 1NF
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that looks awful now 
especially underlining rows I think is affecting my opinion badly
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Yeah, the underline makes it look too busy to work anything out
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I agree it can be hard to scan the lines...trying to figure a way to make it easier.
we can lock the titles to facilitate scrolling, I'll have a go..............
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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Who has added the cell borders under each product? To me, that makes it look amateurish - compiled by someone with no expertise - something which you have.
Maybe use Cell borders to separate each provider but not the individual products and if you do, then some (not all) right/left borders would improve the aesthetics.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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What underlining? All I see is the underline of ISP links in column 1?
And (yarwell) what has underlining got to do with anything I suggested that was in fact not implemented anyway?
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Who has added the cell borders under each product?
I'm testing a version without them as it kills my eyesite (astigmatism)
test version
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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it flowed from your improvement suggestions, I didn't mean to imply you suggested it but it looked good when I last saw it and it didn't this morning so I replied to the first post.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Much better ...
I did email Orly and offer to improve the looks - much the same as you have done. Try putting a light grey border between ISP and then reduce the ISP name to one occurrence
Also, you basic year 1 cost formula needs a conditional statement to add 0 if there is text.
=(c23*12)+d23+(IF(ISNUMBER(e23),e23,0))
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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I set the rows and columns with titles as fixed, so the content scrolls, also tweaked the "hardware" column. There's the odd artistic faux pas to fit with Google's titling and cell grouping methods.
It's in a different test sheet here - comments please.
I'll try to find a way to jump to the business section later today. An alternative would be a separate tab on the spreadsheet keeping the two separate. I probably favour the latter as it would make ex-VAT pricing (more typical for business) clearer if we used that. Thoughts ?
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Ah, that does look better. I see what was meant about the borders, but I'm so used to tables with them. (If that was also what was meant by "underlining").
The locking of the headings works well as it makes it easy to scroll to the line of prime interest.
If you go that way the "E & O E" would now be better in the "Comparison of" area. It's a bit out on a limb where it is.
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thanks for catching me breaking the cost formula with text !
I don't like the row breaks as it makes editing a pain, but I may be a suppressed minority on that .
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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borders along the bottom of cells was what I meant by underlining. Makes it a mess esp when combined with underlined text and my eyesight.
Are we better off with the peak / off-peak times in a note or with their own column, I wonder ? would reduce the amount of stuff at the top.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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You have a couple of mine already ... How about moving teh Peak period notes to K2:N8 or thereabouts and adding the note about guaranteed throughput to the same place.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Try putting a light grey border between ISP and then reduce the ISP name to one occurrence test version has a couple of ISPs done like that - views ?
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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Leave a blank row at the bottom of each ISP block and put the border at the TOP of the row below. Adding in then should not be a problem. OR put a full additional half height row and fill the cells.
Also, the one you have is a little thick - try going to half size.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Put the notes out to the right: Start in P8 and Q8 and then merge P8:P18 and Q8:Q18 with text wrapped. As you add row it will not adversely affect that layout.
Then do the same at the business level but make the cell equal to P8 so data is only entered once.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Try putting a light grey border between ISP and then reduce the ISP name to one occurrence test version has a couple of ISPs done like that - views ?
Horrible. Watched you doing it. I think the blank line is better. Or even, now you have locked headers, it may be OK without the separator line anyway.
Side-effect of locking the column headers - you have deleted the Business ones and lost the "Ex Vat".
O & O E now looks acceptable where you have moved it. Not sure it shouldn't be where I said originally though.
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Further to Yarwells idea in the other thread, I created an initial mockup matrix of the various ISPs. I've now changed it to have the ISPs down the side to allow for more compact viewing.
Both myself and Yarwell are able to edit this online at Google Docs. I'm happy to add anyone else who isn't a time-waster to the list of editors so that, in collaboration, it can be updated or errors fixed. If you want access, PM me or leave a message on this thread. You need some sort of Google account from the looks of it to get access.
The list can be viewed online @ http://bit.ly/f3il0d
Feel free to point out any errors or ideas on how it could be improved.
Thanks
nice layout but its missing important data (a reason why isps like aaisp cost a premium) that is if the isp protocol shapes, for some people that is important when looking for an isp.
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I've noticed that the asterisks indicating "Premium" 16Mb guaranteed are attached to upstream - surely they should be on te downstream.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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for some people that is important when looking for an isp
be happy to receive the information and see how it can be accommodated.
AAISP doesn't really cost a premium for some usage patterns, it just has an essentially PAYG model.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. Edited by yarwell (Thu 10-Mar-11 13:34:52)
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surely they should be on te downstream.
Obviously, duh !
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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Post deleted by Johnct
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I think column P is a bit far out for some display settings, RobertoS is already scrolling sideways and the notes may be missed out of view.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Scrolling sideways ... I have room for another 10 columns.
Looks reasonable where they are but what about putting [1] in I3, [2] in K3, [3] in M3 then 4,5,6 below on row 4, 7, 8, 9 on row 5 &c and as they are notes, use a font size down and italics.
Removing the multiple ISP names does make it look cleaner too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Static IP - surely they should be No, Yes, and On Request plus the cost of a static IP. BT business is optional at £5/month and BT has 2 year and 1 year prices. (£35/30 & £50/45)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Edited by MHC (Thu 10-Mar-11 14:33:03)
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Looks better...
altering the original to match as that is the one linked on the first post and at robertos site.
Just need a moderator to change the link in the original post to https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AquiMM6uTUU...
---
BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 Kilmaine Road, Bangor, BT19 6DT ( NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT Edited by orly (Fri 11-Mar-11 00:32:07)
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Can be viewed directly in Google Docs at this address: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AquiMM6uTUU...
You get a slightly better output from that link but it's the same data.
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List view allows you to sort and filter the columns. Unfortunately, due to the combined columns and missing ISP names, this is less useful that it should be.
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will see if i can re-jig it to make this possible.
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Updated to include products from PlusNet and UTV
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My understanding is the the Static IP for plusnet is a setup fee of £5 and not a monthly £5. Can anybody confirm this ?
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Why are providers that are 'unlimited' marked as 'unlimited uploads - No' ? 
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Just checked through and fixed the couple of instances where that happened.
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Thanks for the quick correction. I presume IDNET and Webtap will move from green unlimited- Yes to N/A and Titan from red unlimited to N/A as well?
I would suggest that providers that have unlimited packages are marked as 'unlimited uploads-yes' rather than N/A. Some of those providers are charging more than a hundred quid a month for 'unlimited uploads' so should clearly show the 'unlimited uploads' as a green positive yes IMHO.
Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Jun-11 19:48:43)
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Initially an ISP only had "yes" for unmetered uploads if they had some sort of usage limit but discounted uploads. Any "unlimited" ISP just got an N/A as the metric didn't really apply.
I agree it's simpler to just have Yes or No so I've altered the page.
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As ever, thanks for the swift correction.
Don't forget Titan. at £140 a month they deserve the green.
Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Jun-11 19:56:58)
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Except it doesn't mention anything about traffic shaping.
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Except it doesn't mention anything about traffic shaping. Be fair, that's not always a simple matter to be certain about- many (though not all) of those ISPs that use it tend to bury it in the T&Cs 
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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It doesn't take a lot of effort to find out. It's a very important factor.
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ideas on how it could be improved.
Thanks As you're including slightly arcane items (like a static IP) for those that are interested, would it be worth including a column for IPv6 support?
As it's a minimum 12 month contract, it could be useful information for those with an eye to the future.
edit- tbb has a list here
Edited by billford (Tue 21-Jun-11 00:12:12)
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Wouldn't say it's arcane for a lot of people with specific uses in mind.
As for IPv6, I don't know if it's that crucial yet seeings as it's pretty shady in support all over the world, not just the UK.
I'd imagine most ISPs will get sorted for this as and when necessary.
Has it factored highly in the ISP selection choice of anyone here?
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Wouldn't say it's arcane for a lot of people with specific uses in mind. If you know what it is, its pros and cons, and have a need for it then by definition it's not arcane, I'll agree. But for most users it is.
True, the same applies to IPv6 at the moment. The difference is that static or dynamic IP won't stop you using the internet, but at some (unknown) point in the future an increasing fraction of the internet will be unavailable without IPv6 support. I doubt that Hurricane Electric will be able to provide free tunnels for everybody!
Hence my point about the minimum 12-month contract. Has it factored highly in the ISP selection choice of anyone here? Has static/dynamic IP? Some, but not many I'd guess. As the bigger ISPs tend to use dynamic it seems that most people aren't bothered.
(And yes, I know they don't offer IPv6 either, but sooner or later they'll have to.)
But when all is said and done, it's your spreadsheet.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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You see it popping up from time to time on peoples spec lists when picking ISPs
Haven't heard of anyone asking for IPv6 though and it's the sort of thing that is rarely included on ISP sites.
If we can get a definitive list of ISPs that actually support it, it's easy to include.
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Not sure if you've noticed but Aquiss have changed a few of their packages, and charge installation fees.
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Thanks.
They've really made their packages worse from what I can see. 95 quid set up? The usage seems to have decreased rather a lot while the monthly price is higher.
On the business packages it's a far worse deal now.
Might partly go to show why, after a strong start, I've not seen anyone voting for aquiss as their provider in recent weeks on my survey (see signature)
Poor show aquiss.
Edited by orly (Thu 23-Jun-11 23:43:11)
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Poor show aquiss.
Prices have been increased inline with large price increases by Entanet to its partners. All Entanet based resellers will have similar hikes in wholesale costs. In a way it's understandable given we have seen a 67% increase in usage on FTTC services compared to ADSL services. Entanet I'm sure have seen similar increases.
I'm presume your aware that BT Openreach install prices on FTTC, which has been discounted, comes to and end on June 30th? Likewise, this increases from September 1st, to a wholesale cost from BT Openreach to £96 (inc VAT)?
Whilst I understand this is your viewpoint, our signups and interest on FTTC have actually increased. Personally speaking, if you are going to be running and updating a comprehensive guide, it maybe better to understand each of the ISPs you have listed own target markets before being judge. We are actually meeting our clients requirements and requests very well.
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I'm presume your aware that BT Openreach install prices on FTTC, which has been discounted, comes to and end on June 30th? Likewise, this increases from September 1st, to a wholesale cost from BT Openreach to £96 (inc VAT)? Someone has to pay for BT's free activation on all their own products except for Option 1 residential
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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All fair enough and it's your business.
It's just strange to see a product generally increasing in price a year after it's introduced. I'd have thought prices tend to fall or remain reasonably static. If this is going to be a theme across Entanet providers then I'd expect them to be losing ground quickly now the bigger boys like TalkTalk and PlusNet are coming along with their own offerings. Perhaps "poor show entanet" is more apt?
I'm not being a judge or trying to be an authority on ISPs but just giving my view. I've been with BT for many years so it matters little to me. The guide, which is the work of others beside myself, is meant to be a simple comparison to allow people considering FTTC in the future to quickly see all the options in one page. There are no judgements on it nor any bias as far as I can tell.
'd be curious, however, to know what your "target markets" are in your view.
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Hi,
Very useful - thanks to those who have put time into creating and maintaining this.
I noticed that the BT Infinity Option 2 shows in the Matrix as £25.60/mo when the BT site shows £28/month (3 months free though).
Has it recently gone up?
Thanks,
Ian
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the ADSL2 product is 28 quid.
Infinity is 25.60
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The £28/month figure is for Infinity Option 2 + Unlimited Free Anytime Calls. There is the option for just Infinity at £25.60 but they hide it well. Note there's no free 3 months if you choose the latter.
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Hi,
Ahh, ok - so has it always been that price?
For an extra £2.60/month but then 3 months free, you wouldn't need to find the £25.60 price!
Our cabinets are just getting installed now - I just hope the price doesn't change or 3 months free disappear before I can order it!
Thanks,
Ian
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Not sure how long it's been that price, but in the mailshot I had from BT it said the 3 months free offer was due to finish at the end of September. That doesn't mean they won't start another offer, in the same way the DFS sale will end "soon".
Openreach are meant to be hiking the install fee at the end of June, and some ISP's have already started charging that. Added to that as seen above Entanet are also hiking prices because of higher utilisation so it becomes all the more curious how BT can be charging so little and still offering free installation.
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Hi,
Ouch - I hope they get our cabinets up and running and update the online checkers while they are still doing free install and 3 months free then.
At the moment, the green cabinets just went in on Monday, the graphic on the Infinity site lists June 2011 for our estate but the BT checker shows no plans in the next 6 months and the Openreach checker doesn't mention FTTC - madness.
Thanks,
Ian
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over the length of the contract it doesn't make much difference.
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Very interesting but could you pleas add as text somewhere near the start of the non scrolling section....
Last updated on yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm
so we know when something has changed,
Thank you
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Feel free to point out any errors or ideas on how it could be improved. I note that you list the business BT Infinity products as unlimited, with a price of £35/month for the Option 1 product- this is perfectly correct but the "base" product is limited to 100GB at £30/month and the unlimited option is £5/month extra.
Also, the contract length is 24 months, not 12.
See here
To minimise confusion, would it not be better to list only the base products offered by an ISP, with optional extras included in a note, or a referral to the ISP's website for full details of the product?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I think this is a change in pricing/allowance/contract. I'm nearly sure when I researched the infinity products originally I got the details right at that time. Will update.
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I think this is a change in pricing/allowance/contract. I don't take much notice of business products, but I've got a feeling you're right. I only spotted this one because it came up in a conversation elsewhere!
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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There used to be option 1 and option 2 for business but it seems to be the one package now with the 5 quid add on for unlimited.
Not sure if both are now 10mbit upload. Originally option 1 was 2mbit and option 2 was 10mbit.
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Updated:
Goscomb, Merula, Web Tapestry, Vivaciti
If i've missed anything let me know.
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Updated UTV who seem to have unlimited usage now. Could be a limited time thing based on the notes at the bottom of their webpage.
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Updated Newnet courtesy of Robertos
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Changed IDNet to reflect their £96 set up fee. (£80 ex vat on business packages)
heads up provided by ukwiz.
Edited by orly (Thu 08-Sep-11 13:14:15)
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