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Hi everyone,
Can you turn an extension socket into a master socket? I am a very experienced installer but can't find anywhere on the net on how to do this? I can't use the extension socket due to being on fibre. I don't mind getting into trouble by BT or BTOPENREACH. Is there anyway changing the ext (extension) socket into a master socket? I am also not bothered about a reduced speed. Please note I do not want a WAP or a home plug.
Any Help will be appreciated
J
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In a standard extension cable, there is a spare pair which you can use to back-wire from the old master to the new master.
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Sorry to be very thick, but could you give me some steps on how to do this?
J
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Sorry, I need a bit more info. Are the extensions daisy-chained from the master using 2-pair UTP extension cable? and, How far down the chain is the extension socket you are interested in?
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Can I provide you the pics of them unscrewed or screwed?
J
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Sure, post a link here to the pics on a hosting site such as http://tinypic.com/
Preferably unscrewed (as yet).
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I found an example on Google Images! http://www.wdbiz.net/productimage/300%5C609158.jpg
The green wire is a blue wire in fact there are 2 blues one stripy and one solid. The solid goes into port number 3 and stripy blue goes into port 2 the other one (stripy orange goes into port number 5) the solid orange (bellwire) is detached when I last went into the socket this was in port 4.
p.s i'm sure port isn't the right word for those slots
J
They are not twisted they are just on its own,
Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Feb-13 21:51:05)
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We know what the wires look like, the key is how is yours wired and with a picture people here can see things that you would otherwise not think important.
The blue stripy would normally go to pin 2 and the solid blue to pin 5.
What you have probably works, but it sounds like is a split pair and would be bad for VDSL.
As others have said a spare pair can be used in the existing wiring assuming it is reasonable twisted pair.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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It can be found here [IMG] http://i46.tinypic.com/e2e7r.jpg[/IMG] Hope this helps!
p.s seems to be rotated?
Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Feb-13 22:03:41)
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Yes a split pair - I presume you have a VDSL Interstitial plate at the current master socket?
Is the reason for wanting the master socket moved so that you can place the Openreach modem on the end of it? Is there any need for the telephone to work?
If you want to ignore the rules completely the best solution to having the master socket in the position of the current extension socket, and the risks of a charge for fixing this if there is a problem later that Openreach think is caused by the changes you made.
1. Get some gel crimps
2. Remove the existing master and and extension, noting which wires are connected to A & B
3. Gel crimp the A to the blue with white stripe that goes to the extension location
4. Gel crimp the B wire to the solid blue wire
5. Place the master socket at the extension location and wire blue with white stripe to A
6. Wire the solid blue to B
7. Connect back the VDSL faceplate and master socket faceplate
8. Openreach modem and phone should work in this new location.
9. Connect the orange with white stripe to pin 2 on the back of the master sockets split face plate
10. Connection solid orange wire to pin 5 on the back of the split face plate
11. Where the old master socket was located connection the orange with white stripe to pin 2 on the extension socket
12. Connect orange to pin 5
13. Screw to wall and it should work as a telephone
Failing all that you can just removed the VDSL faceplate and see how using old fashioned microfilters fairs, if you aren't worried about speed
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Its not for telephone its for the BTO modem thats what the thread is about! Thats why I needed to move the VDSL filtered plate so the modem will work in extension location.
J
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In which case what I typed will work
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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In which case what I typed will work For the BTO modem? for internet not fibre voice service which people get confused about sometimes?
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Will there be a speed drop??
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Assuming we are talking the Openreach FTTC service and NOT FTTP full fibre service then yes no reason why the long list of steps would not work, beyond the caveat that only Openreach engineers are meant to do it
The Gel Crimps are http://www.telephone-wiring.co.uk/geljelly-filled-co... are about the only thing you don't have at present.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Possibly.
Distance is everything with VDSL, an extra 20 m of telephone wiring can mean a couple of Meg lost.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I am a very experienced installer
 
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Glad someone is
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I have 4 ext sockets, they all head to master but just before they go into master it goes into a little white box then only one cable comes out of the white box then goes into the master. Can you advise me what to do??
Jamie
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That sounds as if it shouldn't be any problem. The problem is with extensions that come from extensions wired before the master.
There would be a problem if the main incoming feed also joined the extensions at the white box and they went together to the master. But as long as the incoming feed is direct to the master, with the line to the white box separate, no problem.
--
Moved (with trepidation turned relief) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
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You beat me to it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Idc connectors only support two wires
So this job today may need a bit more planning
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Possibly.
Distance is everything with VDSL, an extra 20 m of telephone wiring can mean a couple of Meg lost.
.. or more depending on your connection. I gained about 5Mbps just by replacing the standard flat cable that came with the modem with screened Cat5.
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So this job today may need a bit more planning
Is there going to be any changes to the steps you provided me?? I already ordered some of those gel crimps of the site you reccomended.
J
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Well without knowing how the extensions are actually connected it is impossible to say,
i.e. photos of each extension socket and the master socket are needed.
In theory the extensions could be run off of the extension socket once it has placed in the location of the old socket.
To be honest, this is getting deeper into the mire and leaning more towards you should have just got a data extension installed when you had FTTC installed.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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It's a good job he's an experienced installer
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Here are photos of the wiring in my home http://s1308.beta.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_Danjoux...
Edited by deleted (Tue 26-Feb-13 16:44:14)
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Distance is everything with VDSL, an extra 20 m of telephone wiring can mean a couple of Meg lost.
.. or more depending on your connection. I gained about 5Mbps just by replacing the standard flat cable that came with the modem with screened Cat5.
This is often due to a reflection loss rather than a wire loss.
As a percentage of total loop length, the flat cable between the modem and the linebox is so short that signal attenuation due to losses in the wire itself is minimal.
However, the flat cable is poorly matched in terms of its impedance to the twisted pairs in the rest of the loop. That impedance mismatch causes much of the signal to reflect back to the modem transceiver/s from the junction of the two cable types. And that reflection is what impairs the broadband performance. It causes frequency-specific notches that ultimately reduce bit depth on the affected subcarriers.
That is reportedly how most bandwidth is lost to consumer wiring: as reflection losses. Compounded by star wiring topologies, which serve as reflective bridge taps, etc.. (See Walter Y Chen, Home Networking Basis)
cheers, a
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Feb-13 00:51:30)
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Here are photos of the wiring in my home http://s1308.beta.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_Danjoux...
The above quote contains the pics
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Pictures of the outside of the socket is like trying to say whether a car will pass its MOT when it is parked 100m away.
People need to see the wiring in each of the sockets and you are only showing three extensions when you say you have four, and the master has to junction boxes around it, and what looks like at least 6 bits of cable
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I have discovered that the junction box on the left has no wires connected so I have stripped that out as the cable was chopped off at the other end. The junction at the top is filled with cables connected to a gel crimp theres about 4 of them. I can upload a pic?
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I ve added another image, the junction box seems to have gel crimps
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Here is the route of the wiring.
Exchange - Huawei FTTC cab - Drop wire.
Drop wire - to side of home.
side of home to the BT junction box (the white box) - The line is gel crimped to the master socket. The original master socket has been removed years ago and only got it refitted again 13 months ago.
Is it possible to remove gel crimps and gel crimp the line to my ext socket then replace my ext socket with the VDSL master socket.
P.S My master socket is unscrewable (Its over tightened) can you help me on how to remove screws?
J
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Can't see enough as unable to zoom the picture with the device I am using so over to someone else.
As for the screws - time to search DIY stores for screw removers.
Personally now is the time to get an expert in to actually decipher your wiring and the various problems
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Personally now is the time to get an expert in to actually decipher your wiring and the various problems
Exactly ... It is a mess and a "cowboy" has been involved at some time.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Managed to unscrew it now! If I move the master socket to the selected location, will the telephone (where the current master socket is) still work?
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Depends on what you do with the wiring and what that spiders web near the master is really doing
Looking at pictures I can see it being possible but would need to be onsite to trace wiring and verify everything before commiting.
If wiring is how I think it is the original Openreach engineer has removed an old junction box that was managing a star configuration and used to gel crimps to extend this to the A/B points on the master socket, and then another wire leaves the new master which is gel crimped to the extension.
No evidence of the four extensions that you meantioned in passing earlier, and where and how these fit into the picture is a big unknown.
In the face of the confusion, why not run a data extension from the VDSL socket of the existing master socket to exactly where you want it. A kit like http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16139 would give you the bits to do that
Edited by MrSaffron (Wed 27-Feb-13 17:17:54)
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Well I want to divert line to socket upsatirs but I want phone not data to stay where it is (current master) Also I don't mind that the phone line doesn't go to new master and it stays where it is. Also what about the ext sockets willl they be cut off if i move the master socket?
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Can you turn an extension socket into a master socket? I am a very experienced installer but can't find anywhere on the net on how to do this? I can't use the extension socket due to being on fibre.
Surely if you are a very experienced installer you will know what to do. And you will also know that interfering with the wiring before the master is an offence and you should not be touching the BT Network.
At present you have a mess, and if you do not know what to do or how to do it then you will probably end up with an even worse mess.
Pay someone that actually knows to do it for you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Cannot answer about the other extensions as no evidence of them being wired to anything at present.
Suspect another star wire junction box, which would cause problems with the original plan.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Well I want to divert line to socket upsatirs but I want phone not data to stay where it is (current master) Also I don't mind that the phone line doesn't go to new master and it stays where it is. Also what about the ext sockets willl they be cut off if i move the master socket?
Surely all you need is a data extension kit, which means no need to move the master, and all phone sockets stay as they are but you'll get the data socket where you put it.
In fact there is a guide in my signature although since they altered photobucket the media info does not automatically show.
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Well obviously i'm no experienced installer in telephones. I have no 'star junction' box. Please Please can you advise me what to do. I can upload internal master socket wiring or the junction boxes which I already have. I am not getting my socket relocated by a telephone communications installer as it involves hefty fees. And economy is not good at the minute.
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Can you provide steps? Also can you use the existing wiring as don't want to put cables through the walls again (It was a nightmare the first time!) and just change the plate? Also if you need to change wires can you use gel crimps?
J
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If there is no other wiring how are the four extensions wired in, only seen evidence to support just one
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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You could re-purpose the extension wiring, but depending on the quality it could very well have a detrimental affect. You could only do this easily if the extension wiring ran from the master socket.
There are plenty of guides to telephone wiring on the net, and my photo guide will also show what to do, and as I said before I think you need to click the media info button to see the explanations.
I'm on my tablet away from home so can't be of any more help, besides most of the people who've replied are far more experienced than me, one is even a bt engineer.
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THe extension goes directly into the master socket.
J
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And how are the other extensions connected? You said earlier you had four?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Then buy the appropriate socket and disconnect those wires from the master, they should only be connected to the lower portion of the front plate, and connect them to the two terminals which are on the intermediate plate. Then fit your new socket the other end, and hope it doesn't affect the speed by much.
Use my photo guide to help, just click the first photo, click the media info drop down and use the next/previous buttons to go through them.
Edit:
Before disconnecting anything, check all extensions have dial tone. Then disconnect the extension you wish to change, leave them disconnect and plug the front portion back in and just check to see if the other phone sockets still work. The only one that shouldn't work is the one you wish to change. If any of the other now don't work then they were being fed of the one you disconnected and you have a problem
Edited by R0NSKI (Thu 28-Feb-13 19:54:30)
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I have now discovered that 2 of them aren't connected so I stripped them down (one to spare bedroom which I no longer use. and One to the closet I can't think why someone would put an ext socket in there). I know one is going to the junction box (the one i want as a data socket) and the phoneline goes to junction box as well. I cant find where the other ext socket go? It must be wired directly to the master.
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Will do this later tonight, My daughter is doing some work that requires the net so will do when she goes to bed (if she does) she is 19. Will follow steps. Also what socket would I need?
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I added an edit to my previous post, in case you didn't see the edit.
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Will follow steps. Also what socket would I need?
Use can use this one, you could still wire the phone in if you wished, but that may well complicate things!
Or use this just for data
It would also be worth getting a Krone punch down tool
The Clarity website also has plenty of very good, and light hearted guides on it which are worth reading.
Good luck.
Edited by R0NSKI (Thu 28-Feb-13 20:01:10)
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I've decided not to go ahead with changing the master socket, as I am hoping to leave PN when contract ends so will ask BT engineer at the time when I get a different FTTC service to install a data extension kit.
Jamie
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Well that was a waste of all our time
You may not even get an engineer visit when changing as you are already on fibre.
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Well that was a waste of all our time
Sorry about that, I just don't want to make an illegal risk and getting fined up to £200 for repair and tampering with BT's equipment and property, I have invested in a good pair of homeplugs from Currys/PCWorld http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/devolo-dlan-500-avplus-... they cost £50 quid and very easy to set up! Got em delivered today with next day delivery.
Jamie
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Not a problem, and adding a data extension is not illegal or against BT's T&Cs as long as you only remove the face plate and intermediate filter, and not the rear part of the master socket.
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But you didn't want these ? I am curious, you mentioned that you were an experienced installer, of what ?
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Can we start a poll?
I'm going to guess at a kitchen installer.
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He's actually an ELECTRICIAN!
I'm sorry, but if he can't rewire a telephone extension to a data extension then I wouldn't let him near my wiring!
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He's actually an ELECTRICIAN!
I'm sorry, but if he can't rewire a telephone extension to a data extension then I wouldn't let him near my wiring!
I wonder if he can tell me how to move the Electricity Supply Co's demarkation point from before the CU to a point between the CU and light circuit. I'm sure it can be done ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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I wonder if he can tell me how to move the Electricity Supply Co's demarkation point from before the CU to a point between the CU and light circuit. I'm sure it can be done ...
haha No but I'm sure I can move that Cut-Out for you
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