Something might be happening?

Edited by deleted (Fri 10-May-13 15:13:31)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

ALthough I have been told my cab will not be upgraded for fibre there is now work commencing about 100 yards down the road to , and ill quote from roadworks.org " supply and install an NGA cab and ducting" Work to commence in a few days

The question is - are the works beside your PCP?

They arent putting a new PCP for the flats are they although? This wouldnt require electricy supplies unless it was an FTTC CAB as well.

Edited by deleted (Fri 10-May-13 15:58:06)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Is this them installing a fibre cab? and if so would I have any chance of getting on it? (they are installing it outside new flats I assume on the assumption they have money) I have more money than they do guaranteed as do my neighbours but we are being left out it seems.

Harry Enfield springs to mind here.

"I am considerably more richer than thooooooowwwww!!!!"

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

The roadworks site has updated and the exact wording is

" Install 20m of 1 way poly duct in Footway,Provide 1 Cabinet and base (NGA cabinets)"

so god knows!?

In which case he's probably the only one who does.

Edit - Oops! The only three who do.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 10-May-13 17:38:20)

Firstly as a Harry Enfield fan I really must correct you, it's 'considerably richer than yeeeeew!"

Ok joking over, have you seen any Openreach vans around pcoventry76?

Discover which cabinet number is yours from the BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER:

http://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html

Search the area of "the new flats" for a PCP, to discover the numbering on it.

cheers, a

Edited by deleted (Fri 10-May-13 21:00:25)

2 cabs in Oxfordshire they wanted £60,000 so if you have £30k to splash feel free

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Install 20m of 1 way poly duct in Footway,Provide 1 Cabinet and base (NGA cabinets).

And our exchange is marked by the end of this year so I am hoping that it is indeed fibre being laid across the road.

Nope. If it were it wouldn't say 'footway' and there would be information on traffic management.

Just look within 20m of where the roadworks are scheduled. The 1 way poly duct is going to be for the tie cables between the existing cabinet and the new one.

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Hi Guys,

ALthough I have been told my cab will not be upgraded for fibre there is now work commencing about 100 yards down the road to , and ill quote from roadworks.org " supply and install an NGA cab and ducting" Work to commence in a few days

Is this them installing a fibre cab? and if so would I have any chance of getting on it? (they are installing it outside new flats I assume on the assumption they have money) I have more money than they do guaranteed as do my neighbours but we are being left out it seems.

In order:

Yes it is. No you don't. No they aren't installing on the assumption they have money, but because they know that cabinet passes more premises than yours so has more chance of giving them a return on their investment. There are plenty of extremely affluent areas where one cabinet is being upgraded while another just down the road home to exactly the same demographics is not because it passes less premises.

If your cab were planned the NGA Enquiries people would've known about it months ago, the time from joining the commercial rollout to being deployed isn't that far off a year, with construction between 1 and 3 months before going live in most cases.

The 20m of ducting could just go to a jointbox, and the tie cables could go via that and then use existing ducts to get to the PCP. It'd still have to be within 80 metres of the jointbox though.

I think he's saying they are laying fibre, but not for you.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I think he's saying they are laying fibre, but not for you.

Yup.

And blimey, look at your options for a while before actually moving house or whatever in order to get fibre - moving to an ideal spot (for FTTC, as opposed to an ideal spot minus FTTC) would probably cost you a similar amount to the £30K for a fibre cabinet for your PCP overall, including all of the personal hassle and the relatively minor cost of terminating your current contract early, etc.

You could always rack up some debt and be moved by the council to one of the flats with fibre. Why not amass the debt by ordering an FTTC cab from Openreach? It's a paradox, isn't it, you can't pay the £30K for an FTTC cab for your PCP but you can afford to move and alter your transport to work situation just to get FTTC... Do you get decent ADSL2+ at the moment?

I think the mention of your personal income might have overshadowed this discussion a little bit. The point is that BT/Openreach don't know and don't care how much cash you've got, but they do have the statistics relating to how many people in those flats will/might sign up for FTTC, and all for one relatively easy set of works.

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-May-13 05:39:20)

If you'd read the thread you would have seen he's renting, and could rent a place for £200 a month less, that's £2400 a year, with better broadband.

Even if he owned his house I doubt it cost £30k to move, of course this does depend on the value of the house, agents commission, stamp duty, and other fee's, IIRC the average cost of moving house is 10k.

He also said he'll literally cut his legs off before he goes back to having Virgin as an ISP. I doubt that's true.

OK, so I missed the fact that he's renting, sorry. But I think my basic points stand, even if it "only" costs 10K to move then don't do it to move from decent ADSL2+ > fibre, surely, unless the most important thing in your life is gaming?

Renting but moving still costs, as I know all too well, even if it isn't 10K. Similarly to buying/selling, you don't get to move anywhere close to exactly when you want, and you end up paying, which was half the point. Fibre is brilliant, but not "live your life around it even though similar alternatives are already being provided" brilliant? Matter of opinion I suppose, and this is mine.

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-May-13 07:17:36)

I do agree it is extreme moving house just for better broadband, not so bad if you rent though, and if there are other benefits to doing it as well.

But it all comes down to personal circumstances and needs at the end of the day.

True that. Unsure about the 100m thing though - the distance I've seen mentioned on planning applications was 50m; are we sure that the 100m isn't round trip length, after all the copper does have to go there and back?

I've seen 100 metres mentioned as an absolute limit, and 50 metres as the preferred maximum. But not in a way that I'd say was an absolute statement by BT.

You could be right on the round-trip, but I've never seen that qualification anywhere at all. And while the voice signal will be going out and back, the VDSL2 signal only goes down one leg.

Following on from this post, which I found hard to believe, I had a word with Zarjaz. His reply was

Bumped into an NGA planner today, so asked the question.

They look to install the DSLAM cab within 40m of the PCP. They will however, go to 80m at a push.

I wonder if that is the physical distance rather than the cable length though, which would tie in with the commonly believed 50m? I didn't think of asking that.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 11-May-13 15:36:29)

The VDSL2 only does one leg per packet , unlike the phone traffic.

Probably a reasonable source then

Once you add a few metres for dropping up & down between cabinet & duct, you're probably right on the difference between physical distance and cable distance.

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-May-13 16:00:38)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

We are talking a few hundred and most of them rather large and posh.

A few hundred posh, large homes in 350 yards of road?

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-May-13 19:39:54)

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-May-13 00:51:55)

NGA roadworks are all over the place, the dig points/footway boxes may be close to you but that doesn't mean that fibre under a road or path near you equals fibre for you, which does unfortunately seem like the ultimate problem for you here. If moving works, then go for it, I was wrong to assume it might be a drastic course of action. BUT:

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Although a neighbor has e-mailed the NGA address offering to pay the 30K to get the cab upgraded. I bet it's still turned down.

...definitely see how that works out

He owns a car lot not far from where he lives and he has a leased line which i near term end. He says this is a better option and will benefits his family and the community more.

Does he know where the fibre terminates and what kind of termination it is, i.e. what can be done to achieve what? if he has a leased line then I don't see how it will benefit him, unless he means that his family lives nearby and a DSLAM for your PCP will bring FTTC to them. Does he know for sure which PCP they are all connected to? I'm guessing now, but you can see what I'm thinking.

Doesn't make any difference to what I'd do though, if someone is putting up the £30K for your PCP to have a DSLAM twin then I'd encourage him and watch it happen!

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-May-13 01:05:42)

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I've seen 100 metres mentioned as an absolute limit, and 50 metres as the preferred maximum. But not in a way that I'd say was an absolute statement by BT.

OR's official spec is "preferably 2m-50m", and the absolute ISIS limit is 100m. I might be able to find a document online to back this up.

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-May-13 01:59:28)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

NO a few hundred homes.

It depends whether they are all served by your cabinet, or the red one 100 metres down the road.

The cabinet at the red marker really does look like a BT cabinet, so I guess it is indeed being converted. That means the roadworks are highly unlikely to be for your cabinet.

I can't see a BT cabinet at the yellow marker, only a pair of what looks like cable cabinets. But that is too far away to be work for your cabinet.

... and appreciate my frustration.

Understood. I know how frustrated I was getting while my cabinet sat there idle, unused for months while all around were active.

But you have had a good set of advice on here, and you seem to be getting more and more wound up, in spite of what is said.

So please remember...
- Any work for your cabinet is going to be less than 80-100 metres away, and probably less than 40-50 metres away
- Having used streetview, I can say that BT would almost certainly put an FTTC cabinet on the same verge as your existing cabinet, at worst on the other side of the street light.
- If Openreach have responded by email to tell you that they aren't upgrading, then they're probably right.
- That leaves two avenues - Superfast Wales, or throwing money at Openreach.

Throwing money at Openreach has worked for, I think, Binfield Heath parish council, where two cabinets required funding of £60k. That's good for you, as it means Openreach aren't rejecting such approaches out-of-hand.

However, Openreach might just turn your friend down simply because he is a single person.They might respond better if there is some sign of community cohesion there (because it helps assure them of take-up), so an approach of a group via the local council may be better.

So if the fibre being laid is only for the area around the Red then what about my mate, me and the rest of the houses all going round here? there are a fair few they will be missing!

Yes. BT are only funding a 67% rollout coverage, so there are plenty of people who will miss out - about 9 million homes. Some of those will fall just outside viability, while others will be a long way off.

Which are you? Hard to say, but it looks like you'd be close to viable. Unless the cabinet has very few lines.

The thing that bugs me is that maybe, just maybe the roadworks site is wrong? I have always assumed a fibre cab must be put next to a normal PCP? Or is that wrong?

Within 100 metres.

Here, they seem to deliberately site the FTTC cabinet across the road from PCP, even if there was room. In other places, they've tended to be placed adjacent. In old locations with narrow pavements, I've seen them placed around a couple of corners down a side-street.

The roadworks data I have seen usually specifies the location pretty well - such as "Outside number 86". I have no idea how accurate the mapping is, but the location written into each one is, in my experience, usually accurate.

If so and it's wrong fair enough but if right then I am scratching my head because there is no cab anywhere near the Red smidge - the nearest one is mine! which as you can see is not far away. (i've walked round and round trying to find this box)

Err... did you look across the road?

This one certainly looks to be a PCP cabinet:
Google Maps

Does he know where the fibre terminates and what kind of termination it is

Just because it's a leased line, it doesn't follow that this is provided via fibre. Many are not.

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I've seen 100 metres mentioned as an absolute limit, and 50 metres as the preferred maximum. But not in a way that I'd say was an absolute statement by BT.

OR's official spec is "preferably 2m-50m", and the absolute ISIS limit is 100m. I might be able to find a document online to back this up.

I remember where I saw it - FEN.

Edit: Best not to post links I suppose.

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-May-13 18:00:53)

Ah, the joys of Field Engineering News, like the Screwfix catalogue, ideal toilet reading ! Have kept every issue I was ever sent.

It would seem that you are on PCP 45, and you're friends car lot is on PCP 27, so whilst it would benefit him at home, it won't make any difference to the car lot upgrading your cabinet.

I was hoping your postcode was in the leaked December 2011 spreadsheet, but it's not. If it was we could have seen how many post codes were covered by your cab, and mapped them.

When I first started mapping our local area, I enquired about two cabinets not being done, NDBRO 5 & NDBRO 21, they are shown here. NDBRO 21 serves 1 road, about 200 houses, but probably has the worse broadband in our area (sub 1Mbps), NBRO 5 serves a large area, probably 500 - 600 houses and was not included in the initial roll out but has since been upgraded, a result of my emails I wonder.

It's highly likely that your cab only serves a small area, and is not viable, or has simply been overlooked like PCP 5 above was.

You could find the area covered, although time consuming just expand your search area out wards checking the house number and postcode on the checker, once you have a list of houses affected walk around them and get a petition signed, that coupled with your mates offer should help things along.

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-May-13 12:09:16)

When I looked at the map earlier, I suspected that cab 45 was added late to the game, and only supplied the houses up William Morris Drive (which look newer than the area of Chepstow Road). If that was true, I'd expect to see the cabinets on either side (along Chepstow Rd) to be lower numbers.

Since then, I got bored, so did some checking, using google maps, the royal mail postcode finder, and the BT Wholesale checker. Here's what I found...

As Chepstow Road leads out of Newport, the side roads are connected as follows:
Cab 8 - Springfield Dr, Bloomfield Cl, Noble Ct, part of Bishpool Ln
Cab 27 - part of Bishpool Ln, Eisteddfod Wk, Treberth Cr, Treberth Way,
Cab 45 - William Morris Dr, George Lansbury Dr
Cab 9 - Royal Oak Hill, Benbow Rd, Llanwern Rd

So cab 45 only seems to cover the small area that those two roads lead into. And, as expected, it seems to be a relative newcomer, adding capacity to older cabinets for that estate only.

I then double checked the number of properties in that estate. It looks like there is a total of 240 properties on 6 roads.

This low number is probably why you aren't considered viable in the commercial rollout. However, it isn't a pitifully low number, which explains why it will be considered as part of the BDUK funding. Especially as fibre & power will roll straight past.

Especially when BT know how many properties have a BT line, and if 80% have VM, then that's only around 20% (approximately 40 properties) possibly with a BT line. So a low take up because of the low amount of properties served, further reduced by those that are on VM, who may or may not move over.

If an access to Virgin Media then the BDUK process will see it as one superfast provider available, and thus not be eligible for spending, thus concentrating the funds in areas where no superfast is available now or has no prospect of any commercial roll-out.

I'd not thought of the logical consequences of this before, but...

As Virgin have chosen to deploy only in the most competitive locations - ones that are easy to reach, with a high density of people, I think we can readily assume that these areas are all going to be within the easiest of the "90% coverage" target for BDUK.

But BDUK won't pay for those areas to be covered.

Therefore the Virgin areas must all be included in the commercial rollout, with the earlier completion date.

So that explains, at least partially, why BT have tended to include and cover a lot of the Virgin areas early in the rollout.

Sounds plausible, at least as one of the many factors in Openreach's planning.

moving house when you rent is still a pain and expensive.

letting agents are leeches.

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

Especially when BT know how many properties have a BT line, and if 80% have VM, then that's only around 20% (approximately 40 properties) possibly with a BT line. So a low take up because of the low amount of properties served, further reduced by those that are on VM, who may or may not move over.

Is it not other way round?

Current high takeup by BT means BT aready get line rental and possilby other subs related to broadband. So revenue growth potential = small.

Current high takeup by VM, rollout NGA then the amount gained from ex VM customers is much higher than converting existing to FTTC customers.

However if its a high BT takeup areas with little takeup from VM, and also high amounts of faults due to dodgy long lines, FTTC can be justified by reducing faults (although probably not almost removing them like FTTP).

Cab 27 is outside the flats on Chepstow Road, by the railings

So at least his friends car lot will get FTTC, it's not giving any estimates yet though on the wholesale checker.

At least he should get a good speed, he's about 230 meters away. Set up a directional Wi-fi system, and you should to

That's not unusual, I've seen cabinets scheduled multiple times before being done. I've also seen them scheduled after they've been done, even when live, and it's not just a reshell.

Sometimes they will be scheduled, and then nothing for six month's or more, but eventually they get done.

LV=Low Voltage, HV=High Voltage. Someone is marking underground cables, suggests there will be streek works for something

Edited by deleted (Mon 20-May-13 12:03:27)