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Openreach announced their price increases for FTTPoD a few weeks ago but no ISP I have spoken to has been able to get an updated price from BT Wholesale who they order through. Has anyone heard anything about this?
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I've never even seen prices published on an isp's website. Surely somebody must be selling it by now.
Freeserve Dial-Up --> BTopenworld --> <n>ildram -->Talk Talk LLU --> ZeN
ASUS RT-AC66U
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Given that any price will depend on your particular location, from the cabinet, I can't see how anyone could quote a blanket price.
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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The installation price is dependent upon the distance from the cabinet and is generally a pass through from Openreach so that is known. What is not known is the monthly price - Openreach increased the monthly price for the three year contract but BT Wholesale won't tell anyone what their monthly price is. As a result, ISPs who previously could provide a price for the service cannot do so anymore.
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Dozens of ISPs sell it.
AAISP pulled their prices and are no longer selling it.
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The installation price is dependent upon the distance from the cabinet .... That isn't quite correct. FTTPoD is not fed from the cabinet, but from the aggregation point that feeds the cabinet. So may be closer to or further away from the user than the FTTC and PCP cabinets
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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Dozens of ISPs sell it.
AAISP pulled their prices and are no longer selling it. dozens? Name some?
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Plusnet unlimited FTTC
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I chased a number of ISPs for prices before BT Wholesale increased their prices - two were able to give me a price and both are now unable to do so because BT Wholesale won't tell them their price. I haven't gone back to other ISPs who were unable to quote before. I would be interested in who these "dozens" are, bearing in mind that we are talking about FTTPoD, not regular FTTP....
Sorry - loose language before - I should have said distance from the aggregation point.
Anyway, it doesn't seem like anyone else has heard of an updated monthly price from BT Wholesale?
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Dozens of ISPs sell it.
AAISP pulled their prices and are no longer selling it. dozens? Name some?
I'd also be interested in seeing that list. I'm only familiar(vaguely) with what Plusnet are doing.
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Aside the installation costs an ISP will have a ongoing monthly cost for the product.
All I have seen so far is speculation on the install costs and nothing really confirmed on the running costs.
Freeserve Dial-Up --> BTopenworld --> <n>ildram -->Talk Talk LLU --> ZeN
ASUS RT-AC66U
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Plusnet currently charge £120/month for FTTPoD, expected to rise to around £200 after the price increase.
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Plusnet currently charge £120/month for FTTPoD, expected to rise to around £200 after the price increase.
No ones will ever sign up!
plusnetFTTC72 Meg
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dozens? Name some?
IP Integrity Ltd
Fluidata
SynergyPlus
Spectrum Telecoms
AdaptiveComms
Vision Fibre Media
ITC
Concept Solutions People Ltd
The Co-operative Business Telecoms
Daisy Communications
Gradwell Communications Ltd
Cyprium Communications
ITCS (UK) LTD
Onwave
Lucid
Bell ICT Limited
Sohonet
Exa Networks
Onyx Group
ITS Technology Group
Pinacl Solutions
Channel Telecom
Wildcard2
Millennium Telecom Ltd
Team Partners Telecommunications
Merula Limited
Difference Corporation Business Communications Made Easy
Odyssey Systems Ltd
Galtec Solutions LTD
500 Ltd
Chess
The Kenton Group
Fluency Communications
Nexus IP Ltd
Elite Limited
Switch Communications Ltd
IP River
NewNet Limited
Qubic Group Plc
Clearstream Technology Group
Pro-Net Internet Services
York Data Services Limited
Eclipse
Keycom
EUROPACOM.NET
NextGenAccess Ltd.
Cloud Business Ltd
Redraw Internet
BT Plc
Origin Broadband
VoiSis Limited
M247 Ltd
Unitel One Source Limited
FastNet
Chain Telecom ltd
Boundless Communications
SiPalto
VanillaIP
Timico
Eurolink Connect Ltd
Telecoms World PLC
Beanstalk Telecom Ltd
Commswise
TIBUS
HighNet
Warwicknet Ltd
NetTech UK Ltd.
Excell Business Systems
SureVoIP
Connect Telecom
Atlas Business Group
Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Feb-14 22:33:51)
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You will not have heard of 95% of the ISPs selling it. They are all commercial/business ISPs.
You won't see any prices out.
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An interesting list.
So far I've tried one at random. Bell ICT Ltd. I very much doubt it. Any links to where you got this list?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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I checked a couple of those at random. No FTTPoD.
I meant ISP's that sell FTTPoD, not ISP's you've downloaded from a list somewhere.
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These ISPs are from the Government's SuperConnected Cities scheme as listed as suppliers of FTTPoD.
Just because they do not list FTTPoD on their websites does not mean they do not supply it.
FTTPoD is a bespoke product, but very easy for an ISP to price up because they are primarily resellers of a service supplied by someone else. Most of these ISPs will not have provided a FTTPoD service to anyone because it is such a niche product.
Give me an ISP on that list that you want to see if they supply FTTPoD and I will give you the contact to phone to check.
Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Feb-14 23:37:11)
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Did it say they were FTTPoD suppliers?
The super connected cities providers includes FTTB/FTTH/FTTPoD, Ethernet, leased lines, fixed wireless and other solutions on offer from the suppliers
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Yep, you can filter the list of ISPs by service they registered to supply under the scheme - https://www.connectionvouchers.co.uk/supplier-search/
AAISP (not part of the scheme) have completely pulled their FTTPoD offering. Their pricing was very interesting before with a high upfront cost, but no minimum term and a very low monthly cost.
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That may be so but picked another Millennium Telecom Ltd and latest news is from 2010 and while their entry says
"Millennium Telecom specialise in ultra high speed connections from 100Mb to 10Gb. We have expertise in Fixed Wireless Access as well as a portfolio of Fibre and High Speed Leased Line services."
All I can find is calls and ADSL2+
Also providers will have joined the lists before the changes in FoD pricing were known.
Another one http://www.origin-broadband.co.uk/business-and-corpo... has more info on their site but talks about IP leased lines, MPLS and Point to Point services (P2P)
If the dcms tick box was called GEA FTTPoD then I'd be more confident that firms who do fibre leased lines have not simply ticked fibre on demand, because they do fibre if someone orders it.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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A lot of the ISPs listed there for FTTP have absolutely no details on their sites about any FTTP offering.
Similarly, a few that I found were still listing speed variants that Openreach ceased to provide nearly six months ago for new customers. It clearly shows you how many FTTx products they supply.
I will phone some of them tomorrow and see.
But I know a couple of them (Timico being one) that will supply FTTPoD, but have no details on their site about it. You need to phone them up.
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The site has this interesting definition:- Where a supplier usually offers FTTC to customers as a standard product rather than FTTP (because of the high deployment costs), or if FTTC would not provide a sufficiently fast service to meet an individual customer�s needs, then some network operators would offer FTTP for an additional charge by offering what suppliers call an �on-demand� product. Charges are often considerable and are payable upfront. See this page.
This page doesn't look as though it is going to lead to a rigorous qualification to serve Manchester. My gut feel is suppliers will just register. I specified Fibre on Demand for Manchester and got a ludicrous list.
It isn't available of course to consumers like most of us here - "Am I a SME? There is an official definition of a small or medium enterprise that you need to meet to be eligible."
I've also now skimmed through the whole of the supplier registration form. The lists coming out are completely incompatible with the ostensible aims of the scheme and site.
Look for instance at the link to Bell ICT Ltd that I gave in my earlier post. They appear in the list for Manchester. There is no way at all that makes sense. There is no way at all they could sensibly offer FTTPoD anywhere.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Feb-14 00:36:39)
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More on Bell ICT.
Two shareholders, the only director and his wife/sister/daughter. Incorporated 30 June 2010.
Net assets at June 2012 £966 (2011 £3,665). Total assets £88,029 (2011 £74,990), total liabilities £87,063 (2011 £71,325).
Can do FTTPoD nationally? [cough] [splutter]. I don't think your list is remotely true.
Also his previous venture was Bell IT 2000 Ltd. Liquidator appointed by the Creditors August 2010, liquidated September 2011. The voucher site doesn't seem bothered about business credibility.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Feb-14 00:58:24)
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I see what you're saying about Bell ICT - they are suppose to be vetted that they can supply NGA by DCMS.
The only possible thing I can think of is that they are reselling another ISPs service, because it does not look like they can even supply ADSL themselves.
I will phone some of the suppliers today and see what they say about FTTPoD. I am confident most would be able to offer it.
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So far a random search has drawn a blank. I do not believe your list is anything other than a list. Good to see where you got it from at last.
I see Gradwell are offering FTTPoD, so you got one right 
You might want to check my sig.
Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Feb-14 08:39:40)
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So far a random search has drawn a blank. I do not believe your list is anything other than a list. Good to see where you got it from at last.
I see Gradwell are offering FTTPoD, so you got one right
You might want to check my sig.
Well I phoned the first three on the list: Wilcard, MLL and Excell.
All three can supply FTTPoD. They couldn't give me any idea of pricing (was interested in the monthly cost) as they have no pricing available and would need to put together a quote.
Any BT Wholesale or Openreach customer can supply and provide FTTPoD to end users. There is just going to be very little interest or demand for it because it has such a limited availability and high installation costs with a lengthy contract term. Any company with the need for such bandwidth would probably look down the leased line route (with the SLGs) or bonded FTTC lines (two of the ISPs above said they had demand for this).
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Grants for solar panels so you get the sales people moving to that
Grants for broadband what does one expect?
The very small providers who are supplying in a city where they are located, as the service may be more than just a broadband connection, i.e. may add a whole layer of IT support too.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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While the BT Wholesale FTTPoD price is still up in the area after the recent price announcement, I'd expect providers to be able to give a ball park figure.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I read the blog on the Bell website before my first post about them. Amongst the gems was something about being proud to have been appointed Zen (ISP) resellers.
My main point wrt the list is that a single random choice shows the vetting procedures of the list site are non-existent. If they are getting paid by the EU to provide this service, as seems likely, then "summats oop!".
Matthew Bell's previous directorships were also interesting, though I only read the list not the detail.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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You would think so. I imagine they can do some calculations, but it's not the kind of number there seem to have written down.
I should also mention that the three I tried were unable to provide any residential service.
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The site isn't for residential. It's for SMEs, as I pointed out earlier .
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricin...
updated price list,
damn expensive
think this correlate to the voucher scheme?
Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Feb-14 13:59:08)
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http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing
Just realised that I am in Band A so the distance charge is only £200!
So it is only £200 installation, £500 connection (ouch), £465 rental plus ISP margin.
A bargain (!). However, to put it into context, how much did people pay per month in the early days of ADSL? This equates to around £750 to install, £60 / month rental. Some people can afford it.
The 2005 prices are a bit steep (!) connection up to £750 and rental up to £1,188.
Will it be rolled out nationwide before the price increase in 2015?
BT Infinity 2 - IP profile 77 / 20 - super fast!
Previously BE Unlimited - 21,000 Download 1,200 Upload but then moved house - 6,500 Down, 1Mb/s up - gutted!
Ex <n>ildram , been to SKY MAX - 15,225 Download
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Afraid price goes up as of 01/05/2014.
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Afraid price goes up as of 01/05/2014.
Doh!
I had thought all the pricing was 2014 to 2015 and then 2015 - 2016 like the road digging price.
I makes the price more like I had expected following the price increase!
Might be an offer on a cashback site
BT Infinity 2 - IP profile 77 / 20 - super fast!
Previously BE Unlimited - 21,000 Download 1,200 Upload but then moved house - 6,500 Down, 1Mb/s up - gutted!
Ex <n>ildram , been to SKY MAX - 15,225 Download
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I wouldn't be surprise if all isp's finally put FTTPoD on the packages for residential after 01/05/2014 and not before that.
plusnetFTTC72 Meg
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They have to solve the 36 month contract issue, which Ofcom limit consumers to 24 months.
Openreach solution is you roll 36 x cost into a 24 month period.
Fibre on Demand is not the only option for city voucher scheme, so far people seem to assume it is the only option.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I'm in Band E (probably) so it would cost £2160 to install plus over £1500 per year for ongoing costs.
At present the FTTC sync is 34Mb so if I were to add four extra phone lines, each with FTTC it'd cost about £900 for four installs plus about £175 per month for the five line rentals and FTTC charges.
Assuming I can find a load balancing router that will cope with that, it would make more sense than FTTPoD at these sorts of prices.
Clearly BT has priced FTTPoD to not sell. I wonder what their hidden agenda is?
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I think BT put up price because it make them easy to cut workload. If BT offer FTTPoD for around £49 inc vat and install charge of only £199 inc vat for up to 200m away then thousand of customers will rushing in to order it and BT will facing heavy workload.
In this way, I think it was behind this reason of putting up price to stop residential customers to afford it or not.
plusnetFTTC72 Meg
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Bonded FTTC lines are far more cost effective - if you do not want or need a leased line.
The new FTTPoD pricing takes effect now because of the length of time it will take an order to progress.
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And how much do you think it actually costs to
a) Install FTTP
b) Provide a 330 Mbps service that is not contented to death
Perceived wisdom is $1000 per property connected in urban areas, when you are connecting them all in one go. Doing it bit by bit costs a lot more.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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But that's interesting if you do the maths.
If you round up the number of homes in the UK to 30 million you would be looking at around £30 billion to roll out fibre to the home.
That doesn't even amount to the rumoured £50 billion value of scrap copper in the BT network. Then you offset the cost of the billions that have been spent on ADSL & FTTC, plus the massive maintenance costs on the old copper network.
If it was a politician making up figures to justify this you could factor in billions of £'s to be saved by the country being better connected, reduced traffic on the roads and no need for a $42 billion train track.
Freeserve Dial-Up --> BTopenworld --> <n>ildram -->Talk Talk LLU --> ZeN
ASUS RT-AC66U
Edited by Ripley (Thu 20-Feb-14 21:12:36)
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no need for a $42 billion train track.
I think ThinkBroadband did a blog on the benefits of FTTC to all versus the HS2 train. The politicians want their toy trainset 
James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Sold 42/6 - Getting 49/8.5 - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m approx
14 years of broadband (ntl: cable to BT FTTC) - Router: Asus RT-N66U - Modem: Huawei HG612 speedtest
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even people I know that are not net fluent, have heard of video conferencing they think hs2 is bonkers and a out of date idea.
Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 20-Feb-14 23:45:42)
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Is there £1500 of scrap copper for every telephone line?
Current scrap prices are £1300 per tonne.
Telephone wire, i.e. one pair is around 7kg per km, with approx 30 million phone lines in the UK and an average length of say 4km that is 4x7x30,000,0000 = 840,000,000 kg of copper or 840,000 tonnes thus around £1092,000,000 of value, i.e. £1 billion
How did someone get a £50 billion figure?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Its from a old article from the register which the guardian covered but they got the figures wrong, as the scrap value at the time was only £2.5-5 Billion.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/sep/23/bt-c...
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My quick maths then is more in the ball park, I had used insulated cable, but estimate of length of cable was out, probably due to all the spare pairs that goto properties
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The value of the copper is also offset by the cost of removal, and the scrap prices quoted may be for clean copper, IE not covered in insulation etc. To get the full value it has to be pure copper, no insulation or steel from armoured cables etc otherwise the scrap prices are much less.
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FTTP is a serious loss maker for Openreach. Areas of Milton Keynes (which is a relatively new city with newer underground conduit/pipes) have cost an absolutely fortune to feed fibre cabling to due to countless blockages and other problems.
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I suspect it is just a generic list of ISP's that expressed some interest in supplying one of the products listed. In reality the list is probably close to useless as most will not be able to supply ort will just take the order and sub contract to another supplier
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Why do you think most won't be able to supply it?
It's being supplied by BT Wholesale/Openreach. ISPs are just reselling this.
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That's the difference, I want retailers not resellers
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In theory, everyone is a reseller though - even the likes of BT Retail/EE/Sky/TT/PlusNet/Zen/AAISP. The only retailer is BT Wholesale/Openreach.
I can completely understand why SMEs will use a small provider (like those on the list) to provide their internet connectivity. They will not be the cheapest, but some SMEs like to deal with small (possibly also local) ISPs who will give them the support they want and need.
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If you turn off the Sky network you have no network, the same with TT, PlusNet, Zen and AAISP
For EE its different as they buy the service from BT Wholesale
Similar for BT Retail all though agreement is different
The question with the resellers is what added value do they add, instead of going direct to who they buy trom.
But I would agree this list does not look like a list of actual FoD sellers, some will do it, but others will probably be looking to do managed installs of FTTC
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The £1300 I found was for insulated copper
But yet cost of removal and subsequent install of battery backup in homes to meet USO for FTTP will eat into it. As always not as simple as a soundbite makes it sound
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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On the copper recovery - this will not happen.
There are some problems:
1) It can be nearly impossible to pull some cables out (if they are doing it by hand). A lot of underground pipes are tightly packed.
2) You risk damaging the fibre cabling by pulling out another cable. This has happened already near me and the cost to fix must have exceeded the value of the copper cable that was removed.
3) FVA has a relatively poor uptake. I believe only BT Retail offer this and it does not seem to be standard when people upgrade to FTTP. Some people will also have their telephone service with another provider that might not support FVA. The nature of GPON meaning you need a constant power supply (with a battery backup) for FVA is not really an issue, more of a downside - I read that Openreach were bringing in integrated ONTs with backup power units but I have not seen anything more...
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Indeed. Surprised they didn't roll more of it back to FTTC.
They've a few areas where FTTC hasn't been too great either. Enabling cabinets that were, in theory, relatively cheap to enable but have so far had really low uptake alongside some that made no sense at all while ignoring others where the sums actually did add up.
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I think once you plan and commit to a project or trial like that, you almost pass the point of no return and it does not make economic sense to then scrap it. I suppose they wanted to see it through to the end to get an idea of what it would cost nationwide as a rough guide, but they very quickly ruled out rolling FTTP up to the 2 millions homes that were originally mentioned.
FTTP must be a nightmare for Openreach to forecast the cost of putting into areas, unless they are new builds. I am sure Milton Keynes must have cost them 3x, 4x, 5x or even higher than they were expecting.
I've not seen any figures on uptake of NGA in MK, but I do know that a recently installed FTTC cabinet is full barely a few weeks after orders were first started. One of the FTTP splitters I saw was 75% full back in Dec.
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I've not seen any figures on uptake of NGA in MK, but I do know that a recently installed FTTC cabinet is full barely a few weeks after orders were first started.
Completely full or out of ports awaiting new cards?
Given the lead time on card installs I'd be pretty surprised if the whole thing had been full within a few weeks simply due to those lead times.
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Completely full - though one card is broken and needs or has been replaced from what I understand from the MK Broadband Action Group.
We are fortunate that there is decent coverage about local fibre and there have been local newsletters detailing all the latest updates for fibre. There have been a lot of delays and problems getting fibre to certain parts of MK. Some areas are over due by many many months. So when an area does go live, there is a mass rush of people signing up - unfortunately BT seem to have underestimated that...
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Just had a quick read myself and seems as though the one you are talking about is just a new card install rather than a replacement, looks like cabinet 128?
They actually don't necessarily start with 96 ports, scarily they generally only start with 48 and cards are installed one at a time afterwards. A new card is triggered when the previous one hits 80% port usage.
EDIT: Unless of course they're ECI kit, in which case the cards are probably 64 ports a pop.
Edited by deleted (Fri 21-Feb-14 13:25:36)
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it will be loss making early on, however this I think is also due to bad decision making from openreach. The blockages are there due to a lack of maintenance. Ducts that likely have not been touched for decades. Also the decision to provide FTTP via underground vs overhead will have skyrocketed the costs.
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I read the £50 billion figure here...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/medi...
Your take on the figures seems to make more sense...
Freeserve Dial-Up --> BTopenworld --> <n>ildram -->Talk Talk LLU --> ZeN
ASUS RT-AC66U
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Well they didn't really have much choice on the overground vs. underground - no-one would have tolerated ugly telephone poles being put up everywhere!
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who is no-one?
I would tolerate it as I am sure many people would in cities, particurly younger people, who think a nice scenery isnt everything.
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I often thought about the costs caused by lack of maintenance over the years, resulting in blocked ducts. Also not everywhere that has underground cables has ducts. I was told by an engineer that some bright spark in the seventies decided to save money by just burying the cables. Apparently our estate is one such case, so there are no ducts.
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You can't do maintenance on a duct that's buried in the ground, the only way to clear a blockage that can't be rodded is to excavate it and there is no point doing that unless you actually need to put something new through it.
Edited by deleted (Sat 22-Feb-14 08:35:47)
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See our news one in Cornwall has done the rounds.
Pole is tall due to slope
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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It will be loss making for many many years. My install alone took probably 4 days in total, including a full day for contractors to dig up my driveway and remove a blockage.
Overhead is actually a nightmare for Openreach in some areas. A fibre engineer was telling me that in part of one village they install FTTP, they have to close an entire road off for half a day to do any installs or maintenance work due to health and safety. So they have to apply for permission to the local council each time someone wants FTTP or they are doing maintenance.
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I'd say the majority of people who don't have overhead cabling now won't want it in the future.
IMO FTTP doesn't seem to make economic sense for anything other than new builds - I wonder how much an FTTC expansion so there is a cabinet on every street would cost? With Huawei claiming 500 up and down is possible over 300 feet, that could be an option.
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On my FTTC install you should have seen the engineers relief when the fault was fixed without the need to replace the drop wire which crosses a road.
Openreach talks of 12 year payback for FTTC, which given people pay just £8/m to Openreach is not surprising. It is more if you subscribe to the profits from BT Wholesale and BT Retail also backing the investment, but a more complex story than for example Verizon FIOS that is vertical or even Google Fiber
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I'm band A as well. There's an aggregation node is about 30m down the road from my house.
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How are you finding your bands?
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http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4307285-bt-...
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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Sorry, I mean how do people know which price band they are in (distance from the aggregation node)? Unless they have had quotes...
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It's based on radial distance from the aggregation node, so you need to where that is.
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How will I find the nearer aggregation node in my area? As I know my cabinet are within 200m away say engineer but with my sync max rate of 107000kbps down and 37000kbps up as it seem more likely I am within 100m away.
plusnetFTTC72 Meg
Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Feb-14 16:14:11)
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Get an estimate from one of the ISP's who can provide FTTPoD.
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I understand that, what I am getting at is people are saying they are in Band A or less than 100m from their aggregation node. I just would like to know how they know this?
As far as I am aware, Openreach do not publish the aggregation node locations. So unless they have had quotations for FTTPoD, I cannot see how they know which band they are in...
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I agree as no ones will know where is their aggregation node and how far away from the property. Only the openreach will know it, not ISP or customers.
plusnetFTTC72 Meg
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Up until recently, planning policy has been to place everything underground. They've had no option.
The government recently relaxed the planning rules, for a 5 year period. That seems to have been in an effort to make things cheaper to deploy rural fibre.
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It is possible people have observed BTor working on them, or they know someone in the know.
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If you see Openreach building a new deep pavement chamber (approx 0.7m x 2m long - with two or three manhole covers) near to the FTTC cabinet then that is the aggregation node usually.
FTTP layout http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/wgc...
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/wgc... on left an aggregation node and on the the right a splitter node with their waterproof covers
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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True, but some people also confuse their cabinets as the aggregation nodes.
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on left an aggregation node and on the the right a splitter node with their waterproof covers
No, on the left is a splitter node, and on the right is a fibre DP (old style). The manifold in the middle is fed from the DP, and then the BFT runs to the splice point. The fibre being blown from the DP node to the splice point.
An aggregation node would however look like the splitter.
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Everything is supplied by Raycom (part of Tyco) if that is any use knowing it...
I know where my splitter/DP are located - thanks to the engineer showing me the full steps of my install. I also have a rough idea where the aggregation node is (very close to Bradwell Abbey exchange).
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If you see Openreach building a new deep pavement chamber (approx 0.7m x 2m long - with two or three manhole covers) near to the FTTC cabinet then that is the aggregation node usually.
FTTP layout http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/wgc...
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/wgc... on left an aggregation node and on the the right a splitter node with their waterproof covers
Ah, I know where is it now. It approx 500-700m away from me. So, I am in Band C or D. FTTPoD is ruled out for me because of the cost.
plusnetFTTC72 Meg
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well this is openreach's mistake.
they installing FTTP in villages, cornwall etc. rural areas, which have higher natural costs.
I am not arguing its losing them a ton of money, I just think they have made silly decisions making it the disaster it is.
Is there other telco's overseas who have had to reign back FTTP rollout due to issues like operneach has had?
Logically FTTP would be done in dense urban areas first, and preferably using overhead cabling. Or at least roadside or something.
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Moving to another service provider is a real issue
Also, I've recently discovered that reporting a voice fault is very painful and BT customer service staff ( at least those based in India ) really do not have any clue how it works
9 days now not being able to make phone calls
Be* Unlimited
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Well people often talk of Verizon Fios in the US. In actual fact Verizon stopped rolling out Fios years ago. And they pretty much DO have the luxury of cheap overhead cabling everywhere.
There is loads of overhead fibre in Openreach's network. Plenty of 3G/LTE masts are fed this way. Have Openreach actually said that they won't do FTTP On Demand using poles?
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When the government relaxed the planning rules temporarily, allowing more overhead cabling, I'm sure I saw that BT don't expect to make any additional use of it. I don't think they *want* to have lots of fibre overhead.
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Where underground ducting is available am sure they would prefer to use it, but overhead has not held them back in Cornwall
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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