FTTC install gone wrong!

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the forum and been using the site for quite a while now and could really use some help.

A couple of months ago my cabinet went live so a 2 weeks ago I had a BT visit to install a new faceplate and modem.
Because I couldnt be onsite on that day I left my grandaughter at home to let him in and do the work.
Now stupidly because I didnt do my homework the problem I have is this:

My house is networked with CAT5e and my router (Billion 7800n) was located in my study.
In the study I have a wall mounted ethernet socket and a telephone extention socket.

The new faceplate (MK3 version) was installed in my lounge against the outside wall. On the other side of the lounge 5.5m away is an ethernet socket and connected to that is a Netgear 5 port network switch for various media devices like sky box, blueray and games consul.

What I've been told and didnt realise was that the router needs to connect directly via the EWAN port so I've had to move it into the lounge.
This hasnt gone down well with the wife as there are now 2 unsightly white boxes on a bookcase which she wants removed back to the study.

So the question is how can I get the router and or modem back to the study without degredation to my line speed?
My ISP has told me that BT can move the faceplate 30m. Getting cabling for the faceplate to the study I dont think is an option so the best they could do is move it to the other side of the lounge next to the ethernet port.

I hope I've made sense of the situation and would really appreciate some advice.

Was the socket with the new Mk3 faceplate the master originally, with your CAT5 running from it to everywhere else? If so it is easy to sort out with no more cable required. Including moving the Openreach modem.

If not, then where was the master and what is there now?

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 19-Aug-15 19:58:37)

If you run a UTP extension off the unfiltered output of the master to your study, there won't be any significant loss of performance (depends on distance of course , but maybe a percent or two, and if you have a decent noise margin, not even that). You can do that with Ethernet cable or, less bulky, CW1308 spec cable. There are extension kits available. Of course that leaves you with the issue of visible cable. The existing phone extension cable could be used, but if it's not twisted pair performance and reliability might suffer.

There should only be one unfiltered extension, or you will create bridged taps.

Hi RobertoS,

The surface mounted box is still the original in the original location with the Mk3 faceplate attached.
The only cable running from this socket is a telephone extension lead the runs through the loft and down to my study.

I'm sorry but I'm a real noob when it comes to this kind of stuff!
Can I ask which is the unfiltered output and what is a UTP extension?
Is my noise margin the same as SNR and how do I find it?
Please forgive my ignorance.

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

The surface mounted box is still the original in the original location with the Mk3 faceplate attached.

That's a good starting point.

The only cable running from this socket is a telephone extension lead the runs through the loft and down to my study.

First reaction - Fison's. (I hope you get the allusion).

Second reaction, is that cabling CAT5 as per your OP, CW1308, or probable rubbish? If CAT5 we are still in business.

Its definately not CAT5, I have no idea what CW1308 is so I expect its the latter...rubbish!

Who installed the extension? Is it connected to the IDC terminals on the back of the removable section at the bottom of the master socket? What colours are the wires?blue with white stripes, white with blue stripes, orange with white stripes, white with orange stripes, green with white stripes, white with green stripes or blue, orange, green & brown would be a good indication it's either CW1308 or Cat 5

In reply to a post by AL66:

Who installed the extension? Is it connected to the IDC terminals on the back of the removable section at the bottom of the master socket? What colours are the wires?blue with white stripes, white with blue stripes, orange with white stripes, white with orange stripes, green with white stripes, white with green stripes or blue, orange, green & brown would be a good indication it's either CW1308 or Cat 5

When we moved in we had the whole house rewired and the sparky ran the telephone extension cable.
I'll have to check what it is tomorrow afternoon when I get back home.

Ahhhhh!

We could still be in business but it may be "interesting"! It sounds like your wiring may have started like this.

We can take an easy way out to get your two boxes into the study, involving (if easily done) a single CAT5 round the room to the existing Ethernet socket or switch.

Or we can check the overall setup and perhaps greatly improve the speed as well, as in that thread. How much effort do you want to put in?

If you want to go the whole hog way, we need a better description of where your CAT5 network starts and goes to, and we need to get some full stats from the modem. Is that an HG612 or and ECI?

Is there a phone attached to the master socket with the modem?

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ shows how the faceplate comes apart

Yellow arrow in http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/images/test-s... points at unfiltered IDC connectors

Just need an RJ11/RJ45 socket at the other end of a suitable length of CW1308, which is the standard specification for telephone cable (as opposed to the useless stuff sound in Currys and poundshops)

CAT5 cable has more twists, so better noise handling with respect to VDSL2 signals.

Everything you need in one kit can be had from http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vdslextensionkit20m.html

Sparky normally rings alarm bells as they have a tendency (not all of them though) to use bell wire, or not realise that there is a good reason for using certain wires.

@AL66
Or bog standard house electrician wiring, from the post I hadn't read when writing my previous one .

My thoughts are along the lines of swapping the master to the study to feed all the CAT5 and eliminating what is almost certainly star wiring somehow.

I'm assuming the phone is behind the plaster and not ducted, and have (in a way) just asked about how the CAT5 is installed.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Sparky normally rings alarm bells as they have a tendency (not all of them though) to use bell wire, or not realise that there is a good reason for using certain wires.

It is ironic really, given that sparkies spend years learning the regs, and the good reasons there for using certain wires for electrical purposes.

It ought not be a drag to learn a few extra types for intra-home comms purposes.

Generally, they also seem to be incapable of wiring TV aerials properly too!

Where did you originally plan/hope for the modem to be, the router to be, and how would they connect?

Simple options include just using Cat5 as a 'modem cable' run loose from the master socket, and keep the modem and router where the switch etc is. If you want the router in the study, or even router and modem, and are happy with 100 Mbit ethernet between the study and lounge then you can use a splitter/combiner that effectively turns one Cat5 cable into two.

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

In reply to a post by AL66:

Who installed the extension? Is it connected to the IDC terminals on the back of the removable section at the bottom of the master socket? What colours are the wires?blue with white stripes, white with blue stripes, orange with white stripes, white with orange stripes, green with white stripes, white with green stripes or blue, orange, green & brown would be a good indication it's either CW1308 or Cat 5

When we moved in we had the whole house rewired and the sparky ran the telephone extension cable.
I'll have to check what it is tomorrow afternoon when I get back home.

Ok I've found a piece of the cable used and it has the following wires:
Orange with white stripes
White with orange stripes
Green with white stripes
White with green stripes
Blue with white stripes
Whte with blue stripes

Under closer examination the wires are solid copper and not stranded.
Reasonable cable maybe and not bell wire!
I can assure you its definitely not CAT5.

Description sounds exactly like CW1308 cable

Post deleted by Piscatorian

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Ahhhhh!

We could still be in business but it may be "interesting"! It sounds like your wiring may have started like this.

We can take an easy way out to get your two boxes into the study, involving (if easily done) a single CAT5 round the room to the existing Ethernet socket or switch.

Or we can check the overall setup and perhaps greatly improve the speed as well, as in that thread. How much effort do you want to put in?

If you want to go the whole hog way, we need a better description of where your CAT5 network starts and goes to, and we need to get some full stats from the modem. Is that an HG612 or and ECI?

Is there a phone attached to the master socket with the modem?

Unfortunately as it was a few years ago th work was done I cant remeber the exact details. As I recall the CAT5 just runs from my study, up through the loft and down into my lounge. At the time I had little need for networking anywhere else as I thought wifi would be sufficient. Just wanted the extra speed for media etc.

As for an HG612 or and ECI I have no idea what that is!
Yes a phone is attached to the master socket with the modem.
What we do I suppose depends on what work is involved.

Edited by Piscatorian (Thu 20-Aug-15 16:23:44)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Description sounds exactly like CW1308 cable

Hi Mr Saffron,

Thank you for the links.
I've looked at the cable dimensions on the run it direct site and I'd say that the cable I have is thicker - Mine measures 5mm in diameter!

Heres some photos of the cable and master socket.

Phone cable

Master socket 1

Master socket 2

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

Where did you originally plan/hope for the modem to be, the router to be, and how would they connect?

Simple options include just using Cat5 as a 'modem cable' run loose from the master socket, and keep the modem and router where the switch etc is. If you want the router in the study, or even router and modem, and are happy with 100 Mbit ethernet between the study and lounge then you can use a splitter/combiner that effectively turns one Cat5 cable into two.

When I had ADSL my modem/router (Billion 7800n) sat on my desk in the study and thats where I've always planned forit to be as its a fairly central room in the house.
Now I have a modem to contend with I dont really have the desk space for it so ideally its best left on the bookcase in the lounge - Doing it that way leaves me desk space for the router.
Now if at some stage further down the line I get a combined VDSL Modem, would I still be able to use it in the study?

HG612 and ECI something are the two modems Openreach supply. Just look on the base .

Uh oh!

Has Master socket 2 always been there (in the study?) and where Master socket 1 is was an ordinary socket? If so things get even simpler! Maybe almost a piece of cake! Though it's a bit puzzling how he has installed the new one.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Aug-15 17:50:02)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

HG612 and ECI something are the two modems Openreach supply. Just look on the base .

My modem is made by ECI Telecom.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Uh oh!

Has Master socket 2 always been there (in the study?) and where Master socket 1 is was an ordinary socket? If so things get even simpler! Maybe almost a piece of cake! Though it's a bit puzzling how he has installed the new one.

Sorry I've misslead you with the photo titles.
The photos are all of the same socket, should have read photo 1 and photo 2.

Something very odd there then.

It looks as if there is an unfiltered extension plus a filtered one. How many extensions are there?

There's a fair chance that for now, as things could be better, if you take the modem and router up to the study plus a dangly filter if you haven't got a filtered faceplate on it already, everything will work. Possibly a little slower than at the moment but shouldn't be dramatic. Just take the modem first and see if it gets DSL. If it does take the router up and plug it in.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Something very odd there then.

It looks as if there is an unfiltered extension plus a filtered one. How many extensions are there?

There's a fair chance that for now, as things could be better, if you take the modem and router up to the study plus a dangly filter if you haven't got a filtered faceplate on it already, everything will work. Possibly a little slower than at the moment but shouldn't be dramatic. Just take the modem first and see if it gets DSL. If it does take the router up and plug it in.

Not sure I follow, both of those photos are of the same socket (the Master).
I'm reluctant to try moving it because last week I asked my ISP about trying to connect up from the extension in the study and they said I should avoid that because if could cause a reset issue at the cabinet?

Everything looks in order with your wiring. Don't move your modem upstairs with your current setup whatever you do - with the MK3 plate in place the modem should only be plugged where it is now.

I think you should decide on a long-term setup and stick to it. Your wiring looks fine and I'm sure the engineer would have used it to make the study the master socket. For yourself, probably best to make the study socket a 'modem socket' and the existing wiring to it a 'modem cable' and keep the modem upstairs only. Simply move the blue wires currently terminated at the faceplate to the two terminals on the MK3 plate (you should cut off the ends of the wire and terminate afresh with an IDC tool) and swap the phone socket in the study for a RJ11 socket.

You should note some off-peak speed tests and ping tests before, then after, and then a while after, to monitor any adverse impact. If you want to buy a HG612 modem these can be easily unlocked in 3 mins and you can see the line stats. Or if you want a VDSL modem/router you could buy that first.

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Aug-15 20:57:08)

What are the wires from the back of the VDSL filter if they aren't to an unfiltered extension?

I sincerely hope they don't go round the edge to the NTE5A. But the orange wire is odd - that's why I said there was something strange.

Or is there a hole through to the NTE5A and that has been used to wire back to the study, instead of looping through the slot due to insufficient length? In which case plugging the modem in at the extension won't do any harm, it just won't work .

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Aug-15 21:06:30)

Is the photo of the bare cable (standard looking 3 pair CW1308) the end of the cable in the study? Did it have a socket and you've removed it?

At your master socket the wiring looks as it should for a phone extension - blue pair for terminals 2 and 5 and the orange wire (bell wire) to terminal 3.

In the back of the master socket you've got the green pair unused. You could use this to connect to the data extension terminals on the faceplate filter (in the top left corner of the area that gets covered by the removable front plate.

In the study you would then have a telephone extension socket with the blue pair and the orange bell wire terminated on it. Then next to it you can install an RJ11 socket for the connection to the modem/router with he green pair terminated on it. Then you'd be able to have a phone and the modem/router in the study (same as you probably had with ADSL dangly filters.

Not sure what you mean, just looks normal to me.

There's a blue/white pair from the back of the NTE5 that appear to go to the IDC terminals on the back of the VDSL filter. Along with an Orange.

I haven't seen the back of a Mk3 before, but there look to be three IDC slots, whereas there used to be two - A/B as opposed to 2/5. These were to provide connection for the Home Wiring Solution (data extension kit), ending in an unfiltered extension where the OR modem would be sited.
... Has another good look!

Ah. I hadn't realised the filter is lying on top of the connected NTE5 and the wires are just going through the main hole to it.



So you are right - all is fine.

Moving on from there, I broadby agree with your suggestion to the OP, except I wouldn't cut the blue/white pair. I'd gently lift them out and reconnect as you say to the A/B IDC terminals. This allows for reversal of the process without having to set up a new pair.

Assuming a phone is also required in the study, perhaps one of these, which he may already have seeing as his ADSLx router was up there.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Aug-15 23:27:23)

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

I'm reluctant to try moving it because last week I asked my ISP about trying to connect up from the extension in the study and they said I should avoid that because if could cause a reset issue at the cabinet?

It wouldn't . But as just agreed with vimto_girl it just wouldn't work. The blue/white wires to it are only carrying the phone signal, and the filtering is two-way.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Aug-15 23:30:14)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Moving on from there, I broadby agree with your suggestion to the OP, except I wouldn't cut the blue/white pair. I'd gently lift them out and reconnect as you say to the A/B IDC terminals. This allows for reversal of the process without having to set up a new pair.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant after lifting the wires out out, trim the ends which were punched down so the new termination is through fresh insulation.

In reply to a post by AL66:

Is the photo of the bare cable (standard looking 3 pair CW1308) the end of the cable in the study? Did it have a socket and you've removed it?

At your master socket the wiring looks as it should for a phone extension - blue pair for terminals 2 and 5 and the orange wire (bell wire) to terminal 3.

In the back of the master socket you've got the green pair unused. You could use this to connect to the data extension terminals on the faceplate filter (in the top left corner of the area that gets covered by the removable front plate.

In the study you would then have a telephone extension socket with the blue pair and the orange bell wire terminated on it. Then next to it you can install an RJ11 socket for the connection to the modem/router with he green pair terminated on it. Then you'd be able to have a phone and the modem/router in the study (same as you probably had with ADSL dangly filters.

The cable in the photo is just from a spare piece that was left over after the installation.

@Everyone

A big thank you to you all for the helpful advice.
At the moment I'm just a bit confused and truth be told I'm a bit nervous about playing with telecoms.
Please bare with me while I get my head around just what exactly I need to do!

Hi Everyone,

To give you a better idea of what I have in mind I've attached an image to help. Lounge Plan

As previously mentioned leaving the router next to the modem is not an option and also I'm very reluctant to place it on or in the AV cabinet due to interference so that just leaves the study area.

I've been having ongoing conversations with my ISP explaining this situation which goes as follows:

I asked my ISP to confirm if it was possible to run a CAT5 cable from the modem to either the 5 port switch or the ethernet port (both behind the AV unit), place the router in the study and connect the EWAN to the ethernet socket to which the reply was:

'The router should directly connect to the modem but the cable can be of a longer distance, up to 100 meters usually.

However, we do not recommend connecting through a switch/hub because this may interfere with the PPPoE data that sits between the modem/router and cause unpredictable results. The only exception to this is if the switch supports VLANs and you can create a VLAN for only the modem and router to talk to where they won't see any other device but again, it could be unpredictable in terms of stability.'

I then asked would it help if I placed an ethernet splitter into the socket behind the AV unit and then attached the 5 port switch in 1 side of the splitter and the cable from the modem into the other side? (as you've suggested) and they said:

'I don�t believe this will work i�m afraid.
It has to be a direct connection with a full feed to the modem which a splitter would block.'

I asked if they had any thoughts as to what could be done to which the reply was:

'Bar leaving the router near the modem which isn't possible or having a direct ethernet connection, I don't think there are many other options.'


So now I'm really not sure what to do.
It worries me that there seems to be a difference of opinion, I really dont want to screw up my broadband.

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

I then asked would it help if I placed an ethernet splitter into the socket behind the AV unit and then attached the 5 port switch in 1 side of the splitter and the cable from the modem into the other side? (as you've suggested) and they said:

'I don�t believe this will work i�m afraid.
It has to be a direct connection with a full feed to the modem which a splitter would block.'

It'll work fine. You use a pair of these or similar, one upstairs, one downstairs: http://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters-c1/network-c4...

It's a purely passive solution that just wires the pins to the cable as shown on the unit, it doesn't block anything. It makes use of the fact that a 100 Mb/s connection only uses 2 out of the 4 pairs of Cat5. So over the one Cat5 cable you can have one full connection from modem to router WAN, and one 100 Mb/s connection from router LAN to AV switch.

The support person at your ISP probably misunderstood what kind of 'splitter' would be used.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

I then asked would it help if I placed an ethernet splitter into the socket behind the AV unit and then attached the 5 port switch in 1 side of the splitter and the cable from the modem into the other side? (as you've suggested) and they said:

'I don�t believe this will work i�m afraid.
It has to be a direct connection with a full feed to the modem which a splitter would block.'

It'll work fine. You use a pair of these or similar, one upstairs, one downstairs: http://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters-c1/network-c4...

It's a purely passive solution that just wires the pins to the cable as shown on the unit, it doesn't block anything. It makes use of the fact that a 100 Mb/s connection only uses 2 out of the 4 pairs of Cat5. So over the one Cat5 cable you can have one full connection from modem to router WAN, and one 100 Mb/s connection from router LAN to AV switch.

The support person at your ISP probably misunderstood what kind of 'splitter' would be used.

Hi vimto_girl,

Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Just to recap...

� I put 1 splittter into the lounge and 1 splitter into the study.
� I run CAT5 from the modem in the lounge to the splitter behind AV cabinet.
� I connect the 5 port switch to the splitter behind the AV cabinet.
� I connect the router to the splitter in the study.

I notice on the Lindy UTP Port Doubler that the 2 sides are marked red & blue so does that mean if I connect the modem to red in the lounge I should connect the router to red in the study?

And...hopefully job done!

Once again many thanks

Edited by Piscatorian (Fri 28-Aug-15 16:44:30)

How about this.

When I say splitter I am referring to the Lindy UTP Port Doubler.

Lounge End

• Connect a CAT5 cable from your modem to splitter behind AV Gear and plug it into the socket marked red.
• Connect a CAT5 cable from your splitter behind AV Gear and plug it into the socket marked blue and connect that to your x port switch.
• Connect the plug from splitter behind AV Gear to the Ethernet socket on your wall also behind the AV Gear.

Study End

• Connect a CAT5 cable from the splitter in the socket marked red to your wireless router (not the routers lan ports)
• Connect a CAT5 cable from your splitter socket marked blue to one of your routers lan ports.
• Connect the plug from the splitter into the Ethernet socket.

Hopefully both of the Ethernet sockets linking the two rooms have all 8 wires connected correctly.

I chose the socket marked red on the splitters for the link between the modem and router, and red meaning do not plug Ethernet devices here.

Hopefully I have explained that clear enough (well I hope I did), basically this should link up your router to your modem (red socket) as well as your Ethernet X port switch to your router (blue socket) and only use a single CAT5 cable between rooms and also keeping the modem to router link separate from the Ethernet lan, I am assuming that's what you wanted.

Also you may have to read the wiring information of the splitters to make sure your Ethernet sockets are wired up correctly to work with those.

To be honest I would of gone the 2 CAT5 Cable route, but the above route should work.

Hope that helps.

Paul

Yes, that's right. The splitters are colour-coded to identify which socket of one splitter connects to which socket of the other splitter. Eg if we connect the modem to the red socket in the lounge, then we know to connect the router EWAN port to the red socket in the study. And if we connect the switch to the blue socket in the lounge, we know to connect a router LAN port (1/2/3/4) to the blue socket in the study.

This achieves the ultimate aim of the router in the study. The modem can also easily be placed at the AV cabinet or the study with this approach (no rewiring or tools needed!), let me know if you want help achieving this.

'To be honest I would of gone the 2 CAT5 Cable route, but the above route should work.'

Hi Paul,

Thank you thats just as I thought however would you please explain your comment for me?

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

Yes, that's right. The splitters are colour-coded to identify which socket of one splitter connects to which socket of the other splitter. Eg if we connect the modem to the red socket in the lounge, then we know to connect the router EWAN port to the red socket in the study. And if we connect the switch to the blue socket in the lounge, we know to connect a router LAN port (1/2/3/4) to the blue socket in the study.

This achieves the ultimate aim of the router in the study. The modem can also easily be placed at the AV cabinet or the study with this approach (no rewiring or tools needed!), let me know if you want help achieving this.

I'm sorry but unless I'm totally misunderstanding things, I dont think its possible to move the modem to the AV unit unless BT move the master socket? Or is it that youre saying I connect an ethernet cable to the master socket which runs around the room to the AV unit and make the connections to the splitter there?

Ok just to add ....

What if at some stage I purchase a combined modem router, would that have to stay in the lounge or coukd it go to the study?

Finally any recommendation on which cable I should use?
Because the ethernet will be running inside a conduit along with some heavy duty speaker cable I thought FTP or STP would be best to eliminate possible interference?

Keep the modem, whether a separate or combined modem/router, as close as possible to the incoming line and master. It is noise on the DSL signal lines that you need to avoid. Ethernet is immune to most noise - of the domestic type and can easily run with speaker cables.

Standard Cat5e infrastructure cable (solid core) will be adequate. Terminate each end in a suitable patress box and RJ45, then use patch leads to connect from RJ45 socket to modem and to router.

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

'To be honest I would of gone the 2 CAT5 Cable route, but the above route should work.'

Hi Paul,

Thank you thats just as I thought however would you please explain your comment for me?

Sure...
I always prefer to have cables separated that do different things.
So in your case I would have a separate cable going from the modem to router, but that's just me, I have drums of the cable here so I can go this route, but if I wanted to reduce the amount of cables being used I would probably of gone the splitter route.

Our house is all networked up using CAT5e or CAT6 (cannot remember, was a while back, most prob CAT5e) and all these cables are between all our internal walls, in our loft and under our floors and only leaving a few visible cables left to replace.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with using the other two pairs in the CAT5 cable for the link between the modem and router, hell I have seen the other two pairs in the CAT5 cable be used for the phone lines and PoE in my local college where I use to work many years ago.

But you may need to make sure that the two lots don't give you cross talk between each other, you should be fine.

I say just try the splitter route and if you are unlucky and have transfer/speed issues then just try a separate cable to see if that resolves the issue, but you should be fine.

Paul

In reply to a post by MHC:

Keep the modem, whether a separate or combined modem/router, as close as possible to the incoming line and master. It is noise on the DSL signal lines that you need to avoid. Ethernet is immune to most noise - of the domestic type and can easily run with speaker cables.

Standard Cat5e infrastructure cable (solid core) will be adequate. Terminate each end in a suitable patress box and RJ45, then use patch leads to connect from RJ45 socket to modem and to router.

If ethernet is immune to noise then surely running ethernet straight out of the master socket shouldn't be an issue should it?

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

'To be honest I would of gone the 2 CAT5 Cable route, but the above route should work.'

Hi Paul,

Thank you thats just as I thought however would you please explain your comment for me?

Sure...
I always prefer to have cables separated that do different things.
So in your case I would have a separate cable going from the modem to router, but that's just me, I have drums of the cable here so I can go this route, but if I wanted to reduce the amount of cables being used I would probably of gone the splitter route.

Our house is all networked up using CAT5e or CAT6 (cannot remember, was a while back, most prob CAT5e) and all these cables are between all our internal walls, in our loft and under our floors and only leaving a few visible cables left to replace.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with using the other two pairs in the CAT5 cable for the link between the modem and router, hell I have seen the other two pairs in the CAT5 cable be used for the phone lines and PoE in my local college where I use to work many years ago.

But you may need to make sure that the two lots don't give you cross talk between each other, you should be fine.

I say just try the splitter route and if you are unlucky and have transfer/speed issues then just try a separate cable to see if that resolves the issue, but you should be fine.

Paul

Thank you for explaining Paul.
My study is already networked and I cant get a straight length of cable there without a load of disruption to the house. The only option is to use the existing network and the splitters.

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

If ethernet is immune to noise then surely running ethernet straight out of the master socket shouldn't be an issue should it?

You are not running Ethernet from the master socket - you are running DSL. They are totally different - different at all layers.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

If ethernet is immune to noise then surely running ethernet straight out of the master socket shouldn't be an issue should it?

You are not running Ethernet from the master socket - you are running DSL. They are totally different - different at all layers.

As you most probably realised I know absolutely sod all about this kind of stuff so to you and everyone else please forgive my ignorance.
So is it a DSL signal up to the modem and everything from the router around the network is ethernet signal ?

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

So is it a DSL signal up to the modem and everything from the router around the network is ethernet signal ?

YES. It is the protocol or method used to transfer data between computers ( there are others too). DSL is used to go from the DSLAM to local MODEM.

The cables are Cat5e (or Cat6) and can be used to carry Ethernet or DSL signals (or others) - they are NOT Ethernet cables and the connectors are RJ45.

Do not mix DSL and Ethrent signals in the same cable - you could introduce significant cross talk onto the DSL signal. DSL signal amplitudes are in the sub-millivolt region.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by Piscatorian:

So is it a DSL signal up to the modem and everything from the router around the network is ethernet signal ?

YES. It is the protocol or method used to transfer data between computers ( there are others too). DSL is used to go from the DSLAM to local MODEM.

The cables are Cat5e (or Cat6) and can be used to carry Ethernet or DSL signals (or others) - they are NOT Ethernet cables and the connectors are RJ45.

Do not mix DSL and Ethrent signals in the same cable - you could introduce significant cross talk onto the DSL signal. DSL signal amplitudes are in the sub-millivolt region.

Given that you say Cat5e can be used to carry DSL or ethernet signal then surely I can connect an 10m Cat5e into the master socket and then connect the other end into the modem in the AV unit?

Yes you can. However I would advise against it.

The routing will be close to speaker cables - high power and lots of potential for noise. The AV unit will have various items running - all with processors and amplifiers and lots more electronic noise and levels tens and hundreds of dBs above the DSL signal level. The result? A loss of a significant amount of speed.

Keep the modem as close as you possibly can to the incoming line and master. Keep it away from other electronics. I have a couple of items here which, if I powered them up close to your modem, would totally smother your connection.

Can we step back a bit to vimto_girl's original suggestion? (At the time I was failing to see the master socket photo correctly).

She gave a simple, easy solution that may be satisfactory, but the conversation has now headed to looking for perfection.

There is a test you can easily do which would be worth posting the results of. If they are good then her solution is worth a try. If they are very poor then the more complicated solution is probably necessary.

It's just the standard BT Wholesale Performance Test. Ignore the red instructions for now, just say you've done them.

On the results page, look at the bottom and click the Further diagnostics. Once you give it your phone number it goes and gets more detailed information. Please can you copy and pasted the full contents of the two text boxes of results.. We don't need to see the graphics.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Can we step back a bit to vimto_girl's original suggestion? (At the time I was failing to see the master socket photo correctly).

She gave a simple, easy solution that may be satisfactory, but the conversation has now headed to looking for perfection.

There is a test you can easily do which would be worth posting the results of. If they are good then her solution is worth a try. If they are very poor then the more complicated solution is probably necessary.

It's just the standard BT Wholesale Performance Test. Ignore the red instructions for now, just say you've done them.

On the results page, look at the bottom and click the Further diagnostics. Once you give it your phone number it goes and gets more detailed information. Please can you copy and pasted the full contents of the two text boxes of results.. We don't need to see the graphics.

Can this test be done with wifi as my Mac is hard wired, however I do have an old windows laptop I could use?

In reply to a post by MHC:

Yes you can. However I would advise against it.

The routing will be close to speaker cables - high power and lots of potential for noise. The AV unit will have various items running - all with processors and amplifiers and lots more electronic noise and levels tens and hundreds of dBs above the DSL signal level. The result? A loss of a significant amount of speed.

Keep the modem as close as you possibly can to the incoming line and master. Keep it away from other electronics. I have a couple of items here which, if I powered them up close to your modem, would totally smother your connection.

Thank you MHC, duly noted.

Yes, fine using wifi. I/We just need to see the IP Profiles and possibly some connection speed info. in the down and up text boxes. But post the full contents as requested - you never know what interesting thing we may spot.

I dont want to muddy the water but unfortunately my internet has been playing up. When I'm web browsing quite often it just hangs and I have to go and restart th router. Not only that I have also seen a message on screen saying I have an IP conflict so maybe thats the cause of drop in speed/connection?

Anyway heres the test result as requested...


FAQ
Results Image not loaded



1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
25.4 Mbps

0 Mbps 25.64 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 25.4 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 17.94 Mbps-25.64 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 25.64 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
5.34 Mbps

0 Mbps 10 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 5.34Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10 Mbps

OK splitters are purchased and on the way.
I lust need an 8-10m length of cable, can anyone recommend any particular type/brand for this application?