How does it work moving to a new all-in-one cabinet?

Thanks to Ribble and Openreach engineers outside my house, I know what's going on with my FTTC broadband. I've a new question though, that I'm sure the combined wisdom of this forum will have the answer to.

I'm connected to FTTC cab2 1200m away giving me 13/1. A new cabinet cab9 has popped up in front of house an all in one huawei. The copper has been looped through it and it's powered, with fibre being plugged in sometime soon.

On the BT Wholesale Checker they have changed the cabinets over, so now anyone in my postcode gets "served by cabinet 9" with no option for VDSL yet), that is anyone who hasn't yet got FTTC. The properties that have VDSL get the "Served By Cab2" and the VDSL option. This all makes sense as I guess they don't want orders for cab 2 when 9(which is 1200m nearer for everyone) is a few weeks from taking orders.

So my question is this, there are around 11 households signed up to VDSL that are currently getting from Cabinet 2 but they are now included in the Cabinet 9 footprint. Will BTOR unjumper our VDSL on cabinet 2 and connect us to the new Cabinet as part of it's commissioning process, or is this something We'll have to get done via Sky, talk talk, BT etc????

In reply to a post by plankton:

So my question is this, there are around 11 households signed up to VDSL that are currently getting from Cabinet 2 but they are now included in the Cabinet 9 footprint. Will BTOR unjumper our VDSL on cabinet 2 and connect us to the new Cabinet as part of it's commissioning process, or is this something We'll have to get done via Sky, talk talk, BT etc????

I am not 100% sure here, but I am guessing that they will just disconnect your copper cables that route to cabinet 2 and either connect it to the new cabinet 9 or they would just install new copper cables from your chamber by your phone pole (if you have a phone pole) to cabinet 9.
I am also guessing they would then tell their system that your FTTC connection is now on cabinet 9 and I assume that would be it.

But there is probably more to it that that

Paul

Someone went through this precise thing with one of the first all-in-ones in Northern Ireland ... but something funny happened that meant the original service slowed even further, and his ISP (talk talk) was unable to fix anything whatsoever - neither restoring the original FTTC service nor shifting service onto the AIO.

IIRC, he moved to AAISP where things were sorted very rapidly.

Hopefully things are a bit more organised nowadays.

I'm hoping that it is that simple! I've two lines with VDSL one BT one Talk-Talk, So I'm very much hoping that it is all dealt with via Openreach taking this cabinet to live, rather than 100's of calls to India and the Philippines!

If your lines are part of the network rearrangement then I would hope Openreach would sort out the reconnection of VDSL in the new cabinet. There is plenty of scope for things to go wrong

There is also plenty of scope for things to go right.

Thanks for the spread of views. My half empty glass is half full! I'll pray to the god of the information superhighway that BTOR just switch us over and I'll get to avoid chatting for hours to well meaning folks in Bangalore and Manilla, when what I really need is a bloke in van here.

Thanks!

13 Down 1 Up hoping to report back in a few weeks as 80 Down and 20 up !

HI Plankton - Can you tell us what happened eventually? I am in the exact same situation, only my current VDSL speed is 8 down and 1 up. An AIO box has excitingly appeared about 50 yds from my house -- so I have great hopes, whcih I hope arent about to get dashed when you tell us the reality!

In reply to a post by dadhailz:

HI Plankton - Can you tell us what happened eventually? I am in the exact same situation, only my current VDSL speed is 8 down and 1 up. An AIO box has excitingly appeared about 50 yds from my house -- so I have great hopes, whcih I hope arent about to get dashed when you tell us the reality!

I had an AIO cabinet 'go live' in October, but the migration didn't actually follow until last week. Speeds have gone from 16/1.5 to 68/20.

What does the BT Address Checker show for your line? Try both phone number and address, as I got different results for both.

Edited by Toonshorty (Wed 07-Dec-16 14:36:44)

Thanks for that. I guess that my optimism is getting ahead of itself then ! The AIO box has only just been installed, and although the power and copper cables have been connected, I dont think that they have linked in the fibre yet. We were first connected to Fibre two years ago, but since then I have watched the speed steadily drop from 28 Mbs down to its current glorious best of 8 Mbs.as more and more people have been connected. Our current cabinet is about 1km away - and is now full. I am hoping that the new AIO will provide the answer - but I guess that all I can do is wait patiently and it looks like it will be well into 2017 if we have the same sort of timing as you)

In reply to a post by dadhailz:

Thanks for that. I guess that my optimism is getting ahead of itself then ! The AIO box has only just been installed, and although the power and copper cables have been connected, I dont think that they have linked in the fibre yet. We were first connected to Fibre two years ago, but since then I have watched the speed steadily drop from 28 Mbs down to its current glorious best of 8 Mbs.as more and more people have been connected. Our current cabinet is about 1km away - and is now full. I am hoping that the new AIO will provide the answer - but I guess that all I can do is wait patiently and it looks like it will be well into 2017 if we have the same sort of timing as you)

That sounds similar to us, long line length of around 1600m but we were able to sync at around 20/4 originally. After a few weeks, someone else got connected and our line dropped down to 18/2 before eventually settling at 16/1.5.

If you use the Openreach checker, does it show you as connected to the new cabinet, if so what stage are you at? Ours eventually got to accepting orders once the work was completed, but we then had to wait for the live to live migration for complete which was another few months.

Our BDUK team actually said that the migration process is supposed to take two weeks, although it appears that in reality it can take quite a lot longer.

Our line was also out for 48 hours and so I had to get our ISP (Uno) to get an OR engineer back out. Once the line returned, Uno pushed them for an answer and BT have supposedly denied all knowledge of it or any cabinet migration work.

Edited by Toonshorty (Wed 07-Dec-16 15:04:10)

We are still early on in the process I fear. I am still shown (postcode and Line number) as being linked to the current Cabinet, so no change there. Did I understand you that BT were taking new orders against the AIO once it had gone live, , but took their time to migrate existing customers over? Surely not ( but on the other hand ...........)

Suspect BDUK team got confused, a normal migration has a 10 day minimum working day delay these days due to rules, custom things like this that are a network rearrangement don't use that rule set

no one can take orders unil the live to live has been done as they have to be movedl frsit before the cab can be then opened up

Yep, just to clarify - although the Openreach checker said the cabinet was accepting orders, nobody was actually able to order a new service and the BT DSL checker was showing ADSL only.

A week or two before the live to live migration, this updated to show WBC FTTC as available for our phone number, and strangely still shows 13-Dec-2016 for our address.

This is just a progress report on our migration to the local AIO box. I am posting it, just in the hope that other people might find it helpful and relevant. All the way through the process I have been trying to find out timings for what might happen next - with limited success, so let me add to the pool of knowledge !

The main physical engineering for the new box was in early Dec 2016. The trenches were dug, the box sited, and a couple of days later, the local power company came and laid their cables. About a week later, and new man turned up, and laid the actual fibre into the ducts, which he said he had to join to a connection point about 1km away. He was done in about a day. Then nothing happened until the week of Christmas, when a contractor showed up and spent 4 days connecting the cabling in the AIO to the wiring in nearest inspection pit about 10 yards away. He said it was normally a two man two day job, but his mate was ill. (this was for about 80 houses, he told me). Then in the second week of January,, yet another contractor showed up, who told me he was just finalising everything before it was passed over to BT. He left, having changed the lock to a silver one. and there was a very faint hum when I pressed my ear to the box.

About the end of January, our entry on the BT DSL checker started to change.. Firstly, our telephone number showed that were were served by the new Cabinet, (which was a change). Also, though, the reference to Fibre went completely, and our number only showed ADSL available. . Then two days later, VDSL showed up on the DSL checker again ... but in a strange way. Enquiring against my telephone number showed the potential of 80mbps up and 20 mbps down (which should be about right, since the cab is less than 100 m away). HOWEVER, when I use the same DSL checker for my address, it shows VDSL - but the speeds quoted are different, and were what it was showing from the old cabinet.

At the end of January, our local Superfast team twittered to say that the cabinet had gone live, but I think that they were getting ahead of things. We are now halfway through February, and there has been no speed changes to my Infinity (or any neighbour who has an existing VDSL connection as far as I know).

It seems like there is another stage yet to come - at least, I really hope there is !! I'm not sure whether to watch out for an Openreach van at the Cabinet, or whether it can be done remotely overnight. I'm also not sure whether they will re-set my profile, or whether the speed will build up over time as a result of the migration.

I will post any progress when it happens.

I believe what's next is called a "live to live" migration, whereby Openreach switch you over, to have your VDSL served from the new cabinet. I could be wrong but this can take some time, as Openreach need to agree it with all ISP's when it will be done, so it can all be done in one swoop.

I may be wrong, in which case someone will be along to correct me soon

Edited by deleted (Tue 14-Feb-17 00:02:18)

that is correct and that has to be done first before the cab can be opened

I wouldn't have hoped it would be too difficult a discussion with the ISPs. "anyone object to us increasing the speed in this area and stopping your customers moaning !!!!".

Will the final live to live need to be a visit to the cab and a profile reset, then ?

It's not just that, it will require ISP's to contact make changes with their backhaul supplier as the routing will change.

The connectivity from the new cabinet may go to a different L2S in the exchange, or indeed a totally difference exchange/head end all together. It all depends how the network in the area is set out.

In reply to a post by dadhailz:

Then two days later, VDSL showed up on the DSL checker again ... but in a strange way. Enquiring against my telephone number showed the potential of 80mbps up and 20 mbps down (which should be about right, since the cab is less than 100 m away). HOWEVER, when I use the same DSL checker for my address, it shows VDSL - but the speeds quoted are different, and were what it was showing from the old cabinet.

I would have expected to be the other way around, full address to show the new estimate from AIO, phone number to show existing estimate from old cab. Thats the way it works when a cab is full, number shows as available if you already have FTTC, address shows waiting list.

Hurray! Now moved over. Goodbye 13/1 Hello 80/20

An Openreach engineer turned up, disconnected 15 lines from original cabinet and then reconnected them in new cabinet. I managed to chat with him and he knocked on my door after to double check all was working, which was considerate.

There was no comms from either goesussex or from BT or any other ISP. The BT wholesale ADSL Checker was a bit of a mess for a while with some people being shown old speeds or wrong cabinet number and it took two weeks to be sorted.

In summary, you don't need to get involved in the process but clearly the BT Wholesale Checker Database isn't designed to support infill migration.

BT Infinity 2
Data Rate 20mbps 80mbps
Max Data 28.4mbps 95.7mbps
Noise Margin 15.3/9.6
Line Attenuation 7.1

A long wait, but worth it now .

Enjoy!

(And don't mess until the second day after connection. If you feel the need to mess at all, which with those speeds isn't likely at the moment. So if it was connected today, Monday is the day).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

A long wait, but worth it now .

Enjoy!

(And don't mess until the second day after connection. If you feel the need to mess at all, which with those speeds isn't likely at the moment. So if it was connected today, Monday is the day).

RobertoS, left well alone as all seems good! Obviously delighted with the throughput, everything working well. Real world .... on ThinkbroadBand and Ookla speed tests getting c. 74.5 / 18.4, is that the kind of speed I should expect given my stats ........ not that I'm worried about getting to 76 ..... just curious ....?!

Wired or wireless? For accurate speed tests you need to be wired to the router. Your absolute maximum on BT is a fraction over 77Mbps. The advertised 76Mbps refers to the connection speed not the throughput, and IIRC has to achieved by at least 10% of the people on that product.

That 10% necessity is why BT do not sell Infinity on lines with an estimate below 15Mbps. It cuts out all the slower ones from the calculation of the average. They can only buy "Faster broadband with fibre", which I think they has been renamed, but is exactly the same technology/Openreach product.

I'm not sure what is happening, so if anyone understands the situation, I would be grateful for any wisdom. We are due to get a Fibre upgrade, through a new AIO cabinet for our estate. According to our local Superfast team, the new cabinet that I should be connected to (Cab 20 at Tutbury) went live on 24th January. After a couple of weeks, all the Databases (Post code, address and telephone number) came in line - and show me connected to Cab 20 with a estimate of 80mbs down 20 mbs up. The trouble is that in reality, absolutely nothing has happened, and we have exactly the same speeds as from the old cabinet (Cab 4 with 9 mbs down 1 up!). Superfast were told that there must be a fault, and I needed to get BT to get Openreach to look into it. The engineer who came said that although the new AIO Cab was wired up fine, there were no working connections in it.

Everything is pointing (as has been suggested here) that there still needs to be a "live to live" migration, but it is 10 weeks since the cabinet went "live" and the Openreach engineer who came wasn't able to find out any details about when ( or even, if) a migration was planned.

Is this delay, and apparent confusion, normal for a migration to an infill AIO box? And is there any way of finding out a real project date?

dadhailz

I assume that you are already on FTTC from the old cab? if so the live to live transfer will need to take place AFTER all the ISPs have agreed the transfer and date ( as mentioned higher up the thread).

It can take some months for all the ISPs to get agreement and some may need to buy new connections at the headend adding to the delay.

If you are not on FTTC you need to place an order to migrate.

Thanks Kitcat,

To confirm, I am already on Fibre, but with horrible performance because of a long cable run from the existing Cabinet. The new AIO should fix that, as it is only a few metres away from my home.

I knew that the ISPs had to co-ordinate for the migration, but I guess that I wasnt expecting it to take several months. Tha'ts really upsetting from a customer's point of view - The investment is made, and Openreach have had a workable "live" cabinet for the last three months or so. But, as you explain it, they cant migrate any customers until every one of the ISPs agree a date.

So the service to all the customers on that box has to stay in limbo until the very last ISP agrees - and since there's only 80 houses for the box, then the slowcoach ISP might only have one or two customers who are holding everyone else back.

Surely that cant be right !

In reply to a post by dadhailz:

Thanks Kitcat,

To confirm, I am already on Fibre, but with horrible performance because of a long cable run from the existing Cabinet. The new AIO should fix that, as it is only a few metres away from my home.

I knew that the ISPs had to co-ordinate for the migration, but I guess that I wasnt expecting it to take several months. Tha'ts really upsetting from a customer's point of view - The investment is made, and Openreach have had a workable "live" cabinet for the last three months or so. But, as you explain it, they cant migrate any customers until every one of the ISPs agree a date.

So the service to all the customers on that box has to stay in limbo until the very last ISP agrees - and since there's only 80 houses for the box, then the slowcoach ISP might only have one or two customers who are holding everyone else back.

Surely that cant be right !

It is.

dadhailz

As Lee111 says "It is"

I would hate to suggest that some ISPs may tarry a little if they only have 1/2 customers but it may well be true! They would just say that it was a lower priority than where they have many.

It may also give them further arguments about how inefficient OR is without acknowledging the part some ISPs play in the log jam and some ISPs like to play that game as OR are an easy target and can obscure the faults of the ISPs through the mud that sticks.

OR have faults but the environment they have to work in magnifies these significantly and they get all the blame.

I can feel my frustration growing by the minute! I have to admit that I was finding it difficult to understand exactly why Openreach should put in all the effort to commission the new box, and then leave us customers out on a limb.

I guess it wont help us, but it seems to me that Openreach should think about an "ISP Name and Shame" for these migrations. If it really was a single ISP playing difficult, we're a small enough community to find their actual users and suggest they change ISP. If they lose their customers, presumably they lose their ability to block everyone else.

Anyway, I suppose that the only option left to me at the moment is to continue the long wait.......

In reply to a post by dadhailz:

Surely that cant be right !

I guess it is tricky when you are bound by one or two inconvenient constraints:

- Every user is actually someone else's customer.

- You need to try to keep everyone's service running free and uninterrupted

But I guess the most important factor is that Openreach are about to fundamentally change the service that is contracted between an ISP and a customer, when they aren't a party to that contract.

Importantly, Openreach are (likely) to remove a speed constraint on the access portion of the connection, which might have a knock-on impact on other parts of the backhaul that aren't within its control. It might unwittingly break some other part of the connection (eg BTW or TTB backhaul), and leave the ISP open to support problems with the customer.

Openreach can't make a change to their part until the ISP confirms that the rest of the connection is provisioned to match that capacity.

One important factor that is within Openreach's control is also changed: the "minimum speed estimate" which Openreach will accept for future faults. The ISP needs to make a note of the new value here.

It really does need to be coordinated.

Following up this posting, about six months to the day since the AIO cab was declared "live" the Openreach Engineer turned up to do the migration of the live fibre customers off the old cab to the new AIO. Only something seems to have has gone badly wrong. The migration was attempted on Thursday but didn't work and all the customers affected lost their Broadband. Attempts to back out the changes didn't work on Friday, and houses were being re-connected to the fibre service using the old routing on a one-by one basis, starting Saturday afternoon but not finishing until Monday morning. So now, we are back to square one, still connected to the old box. I don't know what the problem was, so I understand that my next question is probably impossible to answer ! But, after a failed migration, does anyone know what might happen next ? Is it back to square one, with Openreach having to re-plan, and agree a new date with the ISPs all over again ? Or having agreed one date, have they got permission to try it again as soon as they feel confident ? Having waited so long to be connected to the new box, I really hope that we haven't got even more months of delay.

Wow, you are getting the "worst case" experience. I guess it teaches us that something about these migrations really isn't straightforward - even the part that ought to be straightforward (ie moving some wires about).

I can't offer any real idea -"rare as hen's teeth" - but at a guess:
- The issue was in getting the new DSLAM working
- It might take a few weeks to fix that
- There might need to be some coordination with ISPs again, but it likely isn't as heavy.