Long delay on FTTC upgrade WNTRU Cab 6

Looking for some help from forum members with inside knowledge here. Ordered upgrade from ADSLMax to 80/20 FTTC on 21/11/2016 from PlusNet as it became available on the checker (Codelook says 22/11/16). Nothing has happened yet, after the order was placed the checker changed to available 10/01/2017 so something was wrong. PlusNet CSC have been chasing and referring to delay due to provision of Cable link, I don't think this means GEA Cablelink which is for LLU suppliers. BTwholesale have been putting back the review date constantly. The checker changed again on 10th Jan so I asked PlusNet to try ordering again but they still came back with this Cable link issue which they say involves exchange upgrade work with no estimated timescales. I posted on the PlusNet forum and one of the reps has taken ownership and been in contact with wholesale, the latest response is -

"The escalation owner at our suppliers has responded advising that a more widespread job to replace all cable links at the exchange is required.

This does mean that the job has been given greater priority due to the more widespread implications.

The work will need a road closure meaning permission is being sought from the local highways authority at the moment. Once this has been given a firm date for the upgrade work will be given along with what's been promised to me as an "improved delivery date"

The bit about an improved delivery date made me smile!

What is going on here? It is a small rural exchange ( about 700 lines) at Trumpet in Herefordshire, all the fibre infrastructure has been done through Fastershire BDUK project. I would be surprised if the fibre goes back to the local exchange, it is almost certain to go to a larger head end. All the previously enabled fibre cabinets are showing availability but something seems to have gone horribly wrong with this latest one Cab 6 ( an AIO installed Autumn last year) even though it is showing as available. Which should mean it has been commissioned and is connected to the BT network.

Can anyone tell me if there are any active FTTC connections on Cab 6? and any other clues as to what is causing this delay. Sorry about the long post!

It does sound like rather wet responses from Plusnet, or should I say lacking in detail.

Roadworks suggests to me the main cables entering the exchange, whichever exchange that is of course. As you say.

A small point of information however. GEA cablelinks are required by all suppliers, not just LLU. In the case of your connection the "supplier" is BT Wholesale. Or looking at it another way, from the official Openreach point of view, BT Wholesale is also conceptually LLU.

I think by "improved delivery date" Plusnet mean an expedited order. They pay for it to be processed faster than normal.

it suggest that the service provider has not bough any GEA Cable link
which it needs to do - is this a former Market 1 exchnage

It still is a Market 1 exchange - BT Wholesale services only no LLU providers, yes I know BT Wholesale is effectively treated as LLU, but GEA cable links are between equipment in the exchange and do not go under the road as far as I am aware so I don't think that is a valid explanation.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Thu 26-Jan-17 15:49:40)

The OP said other enable cabinets are showing available, where his isn't. He also suggests that the local exchange will not (ahh - I might have got it), will not be the headend exchange and I agreed with him.

The possibility of BT Wholesale not having a GEA link at the headend is extremely remote. AIUI the existence of a GEA cable link for BTW is what defines exchange FTTC/P availability.

"improved delivery date" my ****. I've been waiting over 8 weeks already!

I actually said all the fibre cabinets including mine are showing availability and I agree that for BT Wholesale not to have a GEA cablelink installed would be very unlikely.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Thu 26-Jan-17 15:58:34)

Cabinet was due 22nd Nov, but got delayed in terms of taking orders until 10th Jan,

Cable link wise the handover exchange is Hereford, so if there is cabling delays due to Trumpet then suggests the fibre backhaul from the cabinet to Hereford is having issues, but given BT Wholesale AND openreach now declare a simple available don't believe this is the case.

No obvious live FTTC users in the area of cabinet 6, there are people speed testing in the FTTP areas to the south of the exchange area and the FTTP just north of cab 6 area.

Right, while replying to Fastman it occurred to me that the fibre optic cable from your cabinet may go straight back to near to your small exchange, rather than being connected to an existing aggregation node.

That could require roadworks near the exchange to connect your cable wherever it ends to an aggregation node there or whatever the existing ones connect to, so as to continue to the headend exchange. Presumably there is a chamber of some kind, but your cable does not yet reach it.

Thanks for that information, I thought that the headend exchange was probably Hereford. What is odd is that the checker is saying FTTC is available for Cab 6 but BT are unable to provision it. I doubt if many users have tried to get FTTC yet so it's not surprising that you can't see any speed tests. As you say there has been FTTP available in nearby areas for some time. Some lines to the north of Cab 6 can in theory get FTTC and FTTP if the cab was actually working.

Yes it would seem that the fibre from the cab has not been connected up somewhere but the requirement to replace all the cable links at the exchange doesn't make much sense. The feedback from BT wholesale is lacking specific detail and they have not yet responded to queries from PlusNet about the road works. I fear this is going to be a long time getting resolved.

The BT Wholesale checker is not live (it's sometimes a few days behind) and it's also not an ordering system.

If you've got not further by Monday then email me and will try to pester Openreach directly for some feedback on what is going on.

Not sure what point you are trying to make, I know the checker data can be delayed but surely its purpose is to let customers know when a service is available and can be ordered by an ISP.

Thanks, I have a feeling not much will have happened by Monday so I expect I will taking up your offer of help.

You might be surprised, but the BT Wholesale DSL checker is not designed for end users.

I need to check the documentation, but I believe that the only reason FTTC appears as unavailable is in the case of a full line card/cabinet. There are some scenarios where a FTTC cabinet shows as available on the checker, but when it comes to ordering you cannot progress an order or the first available installation is far away. One example is when a cabinet has been damaged (there are always a handful of cabinets that have been damaged in RTAs etc.).

In your case, the same L2S Headend in Hereford serves 3 cabinets (yours, one in Hereford and one in Pontrilas). I cannot tell you the reason, but it looks like there is an issue specifically with that headend as you cannot order FTTC on those cabinets (even though the BT Wholesale checker is showing availability).

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

You might be surprised, but the BT Wholesale DSL checker is not designed for end users.

That doesn't make sense as in the preamble it states

Welcome to the Broadband Availability checker. This will provide a provisional check of your ability to receive reliable Broadband services.

Please enter your telephone number.

If it wasn't designed for the end user, I would expect it to say "your customer's" instead

I am surprised that the checker is not designed for end users as that seems to be a useful function, anyway that aside thanks for your help identifying the problem as the headend in Hereford and the fact that FTTC cannot be ordered. I await further updates from BT Wholesale via PlusNet regarding this.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

In your case, the same L2S Headend in Hereford serves 3 cabinets (yours, one in Hereford and one in Pontrilas). I cannot tell you the reason, but it looks like there is an issue specifically with that headend as you cannot order FTTC on those cabinets (even though the BT Wholesale checker is showing availability).

That sounds to me like a new L2S OLT has been commissioned in the headend exchange (previous L2S's full, probably), and is in need of its own set of cablelink connections.

It isn't immediately obvious why any roadworks would be needed. You'd think that it would be a purely in-building exercise for BTW. Unless they need to improve the backhaul from Hereford to wherever too.

From the ISP briefing on using the checker:

The BTWholesale DSL availability checker allows you to check for availability at a location for both ADSL and FTTx services.

There are some subtle differences between the way ADSL and FTTx services are rolled out which means the availability information for FTTx needs to be interpreted and used appropriately to ensure correct customer expectations on service availability.

The checker in both html and xml formats should be used for single availability checks and not used to mass check availability.

I can't see how you get from that to this:

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

You might be surprised, but the BT Wholesale DSL checker is not designed for end users.

Which part do you not understand or need explaining?

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Which part do you not understand or need explaining?

The part where you think you're correct when you're so clearly incorrect..
TBH I'm sure you have better things to do than trying to argue wrong is right, so let's leave it there

Have a look at the terms of using the checker. Have a look at the the quarterly BBAC manuals.

Clearly it's for end users when the link to it is found behind the password protected BT Wholesale portal giving a description that it's for ISPs to check single broadband availability. I guess I shouldn't then mention about the XML version or the version where you enter a username/password...

Says the loser who is wrong 99.9999999999% of the time. Har har!

Given that the Terms of Use Andy referred to state the user is accessing a larger site which requires account login, and so far as I know nothing else on that site is publicly accessible, how do you explain:

- the clearly end user-oriented wording BatBoy pointed out (and there is more) which is mixed in with ISP-related stuff?;
- the fact it is accessible to the public and has been for many years?

I suggest Andy is right in that it was originally designed for CP use, but that BatBoy is right in that BT Wholesale has deliberately made it publicly available.

As for the content of your post, a pure personal attack. Which if "Reported", (do you have the Report this post button that many of us have?), would result in the deletion of it.

There are quite a few pages from BT Wholesale where the links are behind a protected site, but the actual pages are available for all. The checker is found at:

https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s...

Every ISP (BT Wholesale customer) has a login for the DSL checker. Each time an end user searches broadband availability with their ISP, there is a check against a XML page of the above checker with the ISP's username/password. This then allows the ISP to display the broadband availability options for the end user:

(a) The Broadband Availability Checker is provided ONLY for use where the customer visits your website to find out if they can receive Broadband or whether they can be provided with a different customer access option and at what Line Rate.

I cannot answer why BT wholesale chose to allow everyone access to the checker, but it's certainly not designed for end users (with the username/password, it provides a lot more information). There are regular updates to the checker and 200+ page manuals to go with it.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

I cannot answer why BT wholesale chose to allow everyone access to the checker, but it's certainly not designed for end users (with the username/password, it provides a lot more information). There are regular updates to the checker and 200+ page manuals to go with it.

Which proves BatBoy's point really.

I agreed with you that it was clearly not designed for end users. All the stuff below the table was only of interest to a tiny few, even when it was relevant to CPs.

The fact remains that the subset of what it presents to CPs, (I accept your statement here about that), is what the public is aware of. Your bald statement:-

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

You might be surprised, but the BT Wholesale DSL checker is not designed for end users.

was bound to cause confusion. A simple addition to it, possibly "What the public (forum members here) see is only part of what CPs see" would have saved a lot of acrimony, as it would then have made sense.

I agree with both you and him. I certainly wasn't aware of what you just said, and I never understood why the public would want to know what all the gubbage was for. I understood what is was about but didn't see why it was there. Even more so in 2017 .

Update: After more exchanges between PlusNet and BT my cabinet is now active and I have FTTC, don't know why there was such a long delay. BT originally committed the order to complete on 21st March but they very kindly expedited the completion date to 25th Feb!

Cabinet distance is around 350 metres, stats look good but I am probably the first connection on the cab, plenty of noise margin in hand, I think it's about 17dB on download. Sync 79987 Mbps Down 19999 Mbps Up.

Speed test http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Having been on ADSLMax for the last 10 years or so it seems some of my equipment is unable to deal with the increase in speed, but I have an Asus RTAC68U waiting to be commissioned. Should work well with my HG612 modem. As for the slow computers I have a feeling upgrades will be required!

Thanks for all the help and advice from various posters on this thread.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Sun 26-Feb-17 15:11:36)