FTTP monopoly - what are my options?

I've had a long conversation with a chap at BT, and it turns out as my property (new build) is FTTP, it seems that my only option on the provider is BT..

I don't want to be tied in with BT as my only option, what are my options? I don't need a fast connection, I don't want to be tied into paying more for something I'm not going to use.

I can't be the only one in this situation, but I can't find any information out there. It's very frustrating. Any help would be appreciated.

If you enter your postcode at https://www.thinkbroadband.com/packages we should filter to show the FTTP packages at the top, if they don't appear shout at me as it may be new FTTP I don't know about.

BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreach�s FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You can�t have an ADSL service though.

Edited by deleted (Thu 28-Sep-17 14:23:29)

In reply to a post by sjwright:

it seems that my only option on the provider is BT..

Not really, you can also order Openreach based FTTP services on Zen, IDNet, AAISP - however going with BT is probably your cheapest option once you factor in the offers.

The other option would be mobile data ... what's the 4G coverage like there ?

In reply to a post by lee111s:

Sky, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreach�s FTTP network.

I assume you mean BT as you yourself have also said Sky don't currently offer FTTP?

Don!

Do you mean "Doh!"? Haha!

Not doing very well

In reply to a post by lee111s:

BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreach�s FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You can�t have an ADSL service though.

Isn't that meant to say 'can'?

I'm currently using a EE 4G month-to-month, it works well, but it's expensive. I do stream netflix from time to time but I'm no heavy user by any stretch. I'd see its the bandwidth I don't really need if that makes sense.

In reply to a post by tomse43:

In reply to a post by lee111s:

BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreach�s FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You can�t have an ADSL service though.

Isn't that meant to say 'can'?

The OP address "might" only be FTTP and have no copper, if so, then no ADSLx

Paul

I've not heard of that before but yes possible!

In reply to a post by tomse43:

In reply to a post by lee111s:

BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreach�s FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You can�t have an ADSL service though.

Isn't that meant to say 'can'?

If the developer planned for FTTP then I doubt it Openreach would also have installed copper, which means he can�t get an adsl1/adsl2+ service.

I think that's going to be your best bet for now. Hunt around and see what the best mobile data deal is going to be.

Surely it makes sense to go for Infinity 1 which is around 30 quid a month woth no worries about usage then? Rather than worrying about going over and spending more on data?

With more higher quality content being available, it�s not hard to chew through hundreds of Gb per month without thinking about it, especially if you watch netflix. 4K HDR content uses about 10Gb per hour.

I've not heard of that before but yes possible!

I could take you half a dozen plus large new build estates round here where Openreach FTTC is the only service.

I believe it is the way forward, so unusual to see posts of the OP's ilk.

But then it seems likely the OP will still be paying for a mobile contract of some sort on top of the FTTP service.

Said he�s using EE 4G month to month, so I assumed no contract.

If it is a contract, then see it out and get a fixed line service, imo.

Agreed ....

Seems odd to have someone post on here about only being able to get FTTP ...... different strokes innit.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I've not heard of that before but yes possible!

I could take you half a dozen plus large new build estates round here where Openreach FTTC is the only service.

FTTP?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Seems odd to have someone post on here about only being able to get FTTP

He's saying he's been told that BT is his only option

I couldn't understand that either, thinking well they could just go for ADSL but I wasn't aware that some new builds are FTTP only, which is fantastic, but it's still quite a niche market for a standard homeowner.

It is an issue when it significantly limits supplier availability. Same issue potentially with the fibre providers like B4RN - it is all great when they offer what you want at a competitive rate but if your supplier options don't offer the choice you need then it is a seriously limiting factor. The fact so few suppliers currently resell OpenReach FTTP does mean that most are left with the slightly more premium priced options rather than the cheaper options available on FTTC.

There are quite a few that just want cheap reasonable service rather than being forced in to a FTTP service that is beyond their needs.

Even where ADSL is available it isn't necessarily a useful option. My brother had ADSL when he first moved in to a new build and it was less than 2Mb/s. Luckily they rolled out FTTP to him but that limits package/supplier choice - so either really poor unreliable ADSL or limited choice on FTTP.

Just spoken to the guys at AAISP and sent an enquiry to Zen. Excuse the french, but this has really fudged me over! It seems FTTP providers are expensive unless I go with BT, and I don't want to go to BT! Makes me sad, I just want a good old copper line with an ADSL service on it, up to 20mb with unlimited bandwidth. Boo!

Looks like BT are my only option, I wonder if it was an Openreach decision to put FTTP in place over FTTC? 🤔

Thanks for everyone's feedback by the way, really appreciated

A fair number of people would pay good money to be in your position. But, it does mean you are limited as to your choices until more suppliers start to supply the FTTP solution. Other suppliers could provide it but until the number of FTTP installs is higher they don't seem to see it as worth their while.

And from BT perspective it would be a waste to install copper when the government/lobbyists are all calling for FTTP as the "future". You have the future unfortunately a lot of suppliers are still living in the past.

I understand your reservations about going with BT but the cost difference is ridiculous. At least you can select the lowest speed available to keep the price down and it should just -work- being FTTP.

Are you planning to have a land-line phone?

True story. Unfortunately, when that 'future' limits you to only one viable supplier, for me it negates the benefits. Anywho, think I'm going to have to lump it and ask the nice people at BT to do me a good deal...

Nah, I don;t need a landline, I'd only be using it for internet

There are likely quite a few people whose only "viable" supplier for reasonable speeds is Virgin - and I suspect quite a few of them aren't happy at that as well. At least BT do wholesale their network (albeit mostly because they have to) so there is the expectation that other ISPs will start selling it but with Virgin there is no wholesale requirement so it can be Virgin or nothing with no definite prospect that the position will ever change.

And as I said there are areas that have been built by other companies using fibre - that is a pure monopoly and whilst at present things seem to be going fine that may not be the case if the company providing goes bust or has to change business model.

Looks like you have the best thing available then - fast internet, no need for a landline. This is what many people can only dream of.

In reply to a post by sjwright:

Just spoken to the guys at AAISP and sent an enquiry to Zen. Excuse the french, but this has really fudged me over! It seems FTTP providers are expensive unless I go with BT, and I don't want to go to BT! Makes me sad, I just want a good old copper line with an ADSL service on it, up to 20mb with unlimited bandwidth. Boo!

Looks like BT are my only option, I wonder if it was an Openreach decision to put FTTP in place over FTTC? 🤔

Thanks for everyone's feedback by the way, really appreciated

What speeds are you referring to?

Zen's Unlimited Fibre 2 (FTTP) (£46.99 inc Line rental) prices are around the same for BT's Infinity 2 (£49.99 inc Line rental).

You only see a huge increase with Zen's packages when you go above those speeds due to the fact you have to get a business package.

Paul

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Looks like you have the best thing available then - fast internet, no need for a landline. This is what many people can only dream of.

You still have to have at least 1 phone line when you have FTTP, even if its only FTTP and no copper you get given FVA.

So at least you will have to have your phone line with BT unless other phone providers sell FVA.

We chose to have our phone line moved from copper to FVA due to our copper line was rubbish and was always dropping the line.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Thu 28-Sep-17 16:16:40)

Luckily they rolled out FTTP to him but that limits package/supplier choice - so either really poor unreliable ADSL or limited choice on FTTP.

,,, which leads me to the question I've asked often before .....

.. Other suppliers are already in the head end exchanges, have the links there (for FTTC) why not offer an FTTP based service ? It's a good product, why limit what you can offer your customers ?

He's saying he's been told that BT is his only option

Then that person needs their wrist slapping for giving mis-information. Btw based, yes, 'BT only', incorrect.

I wonder if it was an Openreach decision to put FTTP in place over FTTC?

Nope, that was the choice of the estates developers.

Other suppliers could provide it but until the number of FTTP installs is higher they don't seem to see it as worth their while.

Go to Wokingham, nearly 5000 houses going up by the A329M, all fibre only, I think CP's are being very short sighted.

Yes FTTP, two estates in Spencers Wood (more coming) Three in Wokingham, more due in Bracknell, one just down the road from me in Aldershot, (loads more to come there) .......

This is all on top of areas now having it rolled out much faster due to the new connectorised equipment.

Just remembered another FTTP only estate in Worplesdon near Woking .....

Edited by Zarjaz (Thu 28-Sep-17 16:33:39)

There is a no phone line wholesale product

Could be worse. 2 new estates in my town have a full FTTP network but it's owned and ran by a company called See The Light. There is no BT/Openreach network at all. You either have to subscribe to See The Light for calls and broadband or you go without.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

.. Other suppliers are already in the head end exchanges, have the links there (for FTTC) why not offer an FTTP based service ? It's a good product, why limit what you can offer your customers ?

Two obvious reasons spring to mind:

1) As the number of customers able to order a Openreach based native FTTP service on the whole are relatively very few, it doesn't make financial sense for the ISP to spend £1000s to train staff and develop ordering systems which will potentially benefit very few customers.

and/or

2) Based on some of the horror stories you hear about some FTTP installations by Openreach, it may be that Sky, TalkTalk, Vodafone et al don't trust Openreach to install FTTP within a reasonable (4 weeks?) time frame. Obviously in the case of FTTP installation delays, the punter will blame the ISP when clearly Openreach will often be the cause.

I get that, somewhat.

However it�s ironic that the ISP�s not yet offering the services are the ones whinging that Openreach don�t provide customers with fibre connections to give them access to better speeds.

+1

Ok ladies and gentlemen, I've spoken to BT and this has given me more questions than answers.

The lady in the FTTP Connections department told me my only option was BT as they had 'made an investment in the development'. When I pointed out that it sounded like BT had monopolised my choice as a consumer, she said 'other suppliers had the opportunity to provide a service but had chosen not to'.

This concerns me. Does this mean that it's BT and not Openreach who provide the line in this scenario? If it's Openreach, I don't see how they can legally do this, as it was my understanding is that they had to offer their infrastructure to wholesale. I'm hoping someone here can shed some light on this

I've raised a complaint as I strongly feel that I shouldn't be penalised for a decision I had no control over in my choice of supplier.

I'm tempted to request a copy of the conversation, none of this feels right or honest.

Nope, BT and a few smaller BTw based ISP� are the only ones who have opted to provide service over the FTTP infrastructure that Openreach provided at the developers requests.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

There is a no phone line wholesale product

I never said there was.

Paul

It�s Openreach and is offered wholesale. It�s just not many providers have taken them up on it. We don�t know why.

If you limit yourself to the big five providers, then the choice is just BT and this is something like 93 to 95% of the market for broadband in the UK.

There are smaller providers as others have pointed out who can supply, issue seems to be they don't reach the price point you want.

If you were talking to someone in BT Consumer FTTP connections, I don't know why you would expect them to give you a list of their competitors? Does Sky do the same?

If you were talking to someone working for Openreach (and all those that are have been TUPE now into Openreach) then rules were broken, to the extant that maybe this may have missed the caveat about the large providers.

So Openreach infrastructure is made available at the wholesale level, and I think there is some misunderstanding being made by you, and not helped perhaps by those answering your question on the phone.

I�m in a similar situation, except I�m delighted to be getting the opportunity to get FTTP! Bit annoying about the lack of provider choice, but I�m hoping that�s temporary and will come in time as FTTP does seem to be expanding more and more.

Id say what you were told isn�t true

From my understanding, someone can correct me if I�m wrong here:

- Openreach install/own the fibre (like they would the copper lines)
- BT Wholesale offer a wholesale fibre to the premises product that any ISP can take up
- Limited ISPs offer a service on the BTwholesale product, but they all have the opportunity if they wish. some have, only 3 or 4 I think? Annoying, very much so!

Saying BT has made an investment is fine, but it sounds like they�re generalising �BT� with the 3 separate Openreach/wholesale/retail companies which can be interpreted easily in the wrong way... as it won�t be bt wholesale or bt retail who have stumped up the money to put in the fibre

I've highlighted this a few times in talks, and once new Openreach logo appears on the ONT (i.e. no mention of BT at all) some might change, never underestimate the corporate branding.

On these new build Openreach FTTP only estates everything up to and including the ONTE are already in situ and lit before the properties are even sold . It all having been installed new the New Sites wallahs during development.
Openreach knows what the ONTE serial number is for each plot ... there�s flyers left showing how to order ... the ordered service is remotely built and switched on (can be as quick as the day after) and bingo .... sorted.

If everyone had that same theory about not wishing to train staff because the ROI would be too slow, where would we be ? You for one wouldn�t have your FTTPoD service for starters. Maybe no ADSL ... as no one wished to cough up to train staff to fit and fault it. etc etc.

Good reply.

Me new van has no mention of BT on it, still seems to confuse many.

Zen Internet

£43.99 for unlimited 38 Mbps down, 9.5 Mbps up service (inc line rental)

Its not as cheap as BT Infinity 1 in the first 12 months, but once outside the minimum term the price is pretty much the same.

In reply to a post by sjwright:

The lady in the FTTP Connections department told me my only option was BT as they had 'made an investment in the development'. When I pointed out that it sounded like BT had monopolised my choice as a consumer, she said 'other suppliers had the opportunity to provide a service but had chosen not to'.

Interesting...

A couple of years ago, we went through a phase where brownfield FTTP sites (ie not new build) were being quoted excess construction charges by Openreach, in order to connect to the FTTP infrastructure, even if it was just across the street. That felt strange too, when FTTC orders would never get any kind of ECC charge.

The problem seemed to go away when BT (at retail level) chose to consume the excess construction charges without passing them on to the householder; other ISPs would not match that offer.

I always wondered, then, if this was one reason why other mass-market/cheap ISPs didn't want to get involved - because it would mean getting involved with ECCs, and possibly having to pay out for them.

In reply to a post by sjwright:

This concerns me. Does this mean that it's BT and not Openreach who provide the line in this scenario?

I wonder, then, in your case: has BT chosen to pay some excess construction charge.

In reply to a post by sjwright:

If it's Openreach, I don't see how they can legally do this, as it was my understanding is that they had to offer their infrastructure to wholesale. I'm hoping someone here can shed some light on this

The legal position is more complicated than that.

First, it is down to the developer to decide who to engage to provide utility services. They don't have to choose BT. The government is keen to ensure there is competition in supply to new-builds.

But conversely, the law has put in place a USO requirement that BT provides (at minimum) a line capable of voice service and 28kb dial-up speeds. However, this USO comes with the ability to charge ECC's, and (importantly) doesn't apply if the land-owner is not giving permission for Openreach to install their equipment.

The roads on new-build sites are private, until everything has finished, and been adopted by the council. Openreach has no right to use them unless the developer agrees.

So ... some developers choose a different supplier for fibre services. Anyone buying a house is essentially locked-in to that supplier (see the mention of "see the light" above) at least until the road gets adopted ... perhaps 3 years after building has finished.

I also wonder what happens to some of these estates being built without proper freeholds.

So you are in a strange legal limbo in a new-build. As it is feasible for a developer to reach some kind of lock-in agreement with a third party fibre supplier, I wonder if it is also possible for a developer to lock-in BT as a supplier instead ... at least until adoption.

It's only a theory ... and I could see how BT's name could become mud for doing it. But it might also be the only way that excess construction charges can be recouped. I wouldn't put it past a developer

Thoughts anyone?

I think you've misunderstood Andrews reply.

Besides, there's no need to have a phone line with PlusNets FTTP (trial), which AFAICS is the cheapest by far, £22.49 / £17.49 pm for 80/20 or 40/2 respectively with no phone line.

I think that's only available to existing customers though.

Yes, you're quite right, but I can think of a way round it...

If the OP had a friend or relative who would be willing to let him/her order an ADSLx service at their premises (may require another line to be installed at said premises), s/he could join PN on ADSL then do a 'house move'. There have been several cases of PN ADSLx customers moving to FTTP only areas and being accommodated onto the PN FTTP trial.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

I think you've misunderstood Andrews reply.

Its possible, its been a very long day for me today LOL.

I know with BT we had to keep our line, I know I wanted to transfer our number over to our VoIP Service due to our copper line is bad and faulty, but BT told me we need to have an active phone line and if the copper line was that bad we could have it moved over to FVA and that it costs the same per month.

Which was why I had the phone moved over to FVA, to which our phone line is now crisp clear, so we are now happy with the phone line

And then BT became ass hats and then charged us a deactivation fee for the copper line, even though there was no mention of that fee, so I wasn't happy there.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

Besides, there's no need to have a phone line with PlusNets FTTP (trial), which AFAICS is the cheapest by far, £22.49 / £17.49 pm for 80/20 or 40/2 respectively with no phone line.

Yeah, but isn't PlusNet's FTTP (trial) only for already customers?
If so then that is only relevant if the user is already a customer of PlusNet, but if there is only FTTP and no copper lines and the user isn't already a PlusNet customer there is no chance in them getting FTTP from them.

But those prices do look nice
I wonder what price it becomes for higher speeds like 300 Mbit etc.
Its like Zen's prices for 40 and 80 seem fine, sadly anything above those speeds and the price goes sky high.

Paul

I believe 80/20 is PN�s top FTTP package.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I believe 80/20 is PN�s top FTTP package.

Ah, ok, wasn't too sure.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by Rastus:

Besides, there's no need to have a phone line with PlusNets FTTP (trial), which AFAICS is the cheapest by far, £22.49 / £17.49 pm for 80/20 or 40/2 respectively with no phone line.

Yeah, but isn't PlusNet's FTTP (trial) only for already customers?
If so then that is only relevant if the user is already a customer of PlusNet, but if there is only FTTP and no copper lines and the user isn't already a PlusNet customer there is no chance in them getting FTTP from them.

See my reply to Batboy

But those prices do look nice
I wonder what price it becomes for higher speeds like 300 Mbit etc.
Its like Zen's prices for 40 and 80 seem fine, sadly anything above those speeds and the price goes sky high.

PN only offer the speeds I quoted at present (80/20 and 40/2) so the higher prices aren't relevant.

Very interesting thread. I've just found it googling for info, because my son is moving into a new build flat, and to my amazement all the FTTP gubbins is already installed, and lit up.

He's a first time buyer, on a very tight budget, myself and my wife are having to help considerably
financially (or we'll never get rid of him !) It does seem unfair he'll have to pay for a premium supplier (or in the case of BT, premium prices for non premium customer service !)

It has been suggested in another forum, that if you 'blindly' order a 'fibre' service from any ISP you will end
up with a provisioned service, but reading the comments in here, that doesn't appear to be the case ?

Specifics are the key here...

' 'blindly' order a 'fibre' service from any ISP' this will only work if the provider is retailing the GEA-FTTP service.

Even if you order from BT Consumer the price should be in the
£26.99 to £31.99 for the entry level Infinity 1 product (up to 52 Mbps)
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/unli...
Package due to update this morning, but offers vary usually within that range and claiming reward softens it.

After 12 months the price jumps but trick is to migrate to someone like https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/zen/packages/fib... at £43.99/m or negotiate a rate reduction in return for another fixed term with BT. Plus in 12 months time it is likely more people will be retailing the FTTP version so might be more choice.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Specifics are the key here...

' 'blindly' order a 'fibre' service from any ISP' this will only work if the provider is retailing the GEA-FTTP service.

Even if you order from BT Consumer the price should be in the
£26.99 to £31.99 for the entry level Infinity 1 product (up to 52 Mbps)
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/unli...
Package due to update this morning, but offers vary usually within that range and claiming reward softens it.

After 12 months the price jumps but trick is to migrate to someone like https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/zen/packages/fib... at £43.99/m or negotiate a rate reduction in return for another fixed term with BT. Plus in 12 months time it is likely more people will be retailing the FTTP version so might be more choice.

Thanks Andrew,

He will certainly want 'unlimited', and being a 'young person' doesn't need to worry about the voice side of things ! He had budgeted on 20-25 quid/m for broadband, so going 5-10 quid over won't be too much of a disaster, we'll help him with that. Yes, good point, 12-18 months on there should be more FTTP ISP choice to use a stick with BT, or migrate to.

The rewards that lower the impact of the price have just a gone, but at a guess will be back on 19th if in no hurry

Rewards range between £75 and at an absolute peak £150

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The rewards that lower the impact of the price have just a gone, but at a guess will be back on 19th if in no hurry

Rewards range between £75 and at an absolute peak £150

OK, as with all house purchases, it'll be glacially slow !

Just one thought, I wonder what would happen if he 'blindly' ordered fibre from Plusnet ?

They do retail FTTP, but of course as discussed only as a trial for existing customers.

I'm a Plusnet customer, I wonder if there's a loophole there, where I could get the service installed for him in my name ?

If it was installed in your name, it would probably be dealt with as a house move, so you'd lose the broadband you have at the current address.

You can try blindly ordering if you want, but usually gets no where beyond the address look up which then offers ADSL or nothing

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You can try blindly ordering if you want, but usually gets no where beyond the address look up which then offers ADSL or nothing

The concept seems over complicated. In essence the provision as far as the ISP is concerned is the same as FTTC, the demarcation point remains the same, a PPPoE port on a BT Openreach modem, it shouldn't matter whether that's a VDSL box, on an 'ONT', I'm obviously missing something here ?

You�re missing that the ISP has to be selling a retail FTTP package for you to be able to buy it.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You�re missing that the ISP has to be selling a retail FTTP package for you to be able to buy it.

If only there was a telecoms regulator that would encourage the separation of 'means of delivery' from 'products', and you simply order and pay for whatever can be provided by the available infrastructure

It is the various CP�s that choose not to offer service over the Openreach FTTP network.....

The excuse I�ve heard offered before is that they don�t wish to have to give staff additional training.

Quality

Training
Branding
Cost of GEA Handover links - which has just recently dropped a lot so things may be changing

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It is the various CP�s that choose not to offer service over the Openreach FTTP network.....

The excuse I�ve heard offered before is that they don�t wish to have to give staff additional training.

Quality

But in this instance (an already installed FTTP infrastructure [1]) what involvement that is specific
to FTTP (over FTTC) do the CPs have to get involved with ?

[1] Or even a pre existing FTTP install, that the consumer wishes to migrate from

Backhaul from the handover exchange

If the property is FTTP only, with absolutely no copper, you won't be able to order fibre from the likes of Plusnet. The databases differentiate between FTTP/FTTC.
Any supplier who doesn't offer FTTP won't be able to take the order on the 1st place.

No idea where you seen that suggested but it won't work.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

No idea where you seen that suggested but it won't work.

In a recent discussion in the uk.telecom.broadband Usenet group

Edited by broadbandjockey (Fri 13-Oct-17 17:17:52)

Can you link to the discussion?

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

They do retail FTTP, but of course as discussed only as a trial for existing customers.

I'm a Plusnet customer, I wonder if there's a loophole there, where I could get the service installed for him in my name ?

As discussed earlier in this very thread, with this suggestion offered.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Can you link to the discussion?

The easiest way is via Google Groups portal (of course GG isn't Usenet !!)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.telecom.b...

I think this got highlighted too you but repeating here, i.e. while FTTP has a top residential speed of 330 Mbps

Packages at 38, 52, 76, 100, 200 and 300 Mbps should all be available as options (but not all those selling FTTP will offer all those permutations)

"so in short if he just 'innocently' applies for a 'fibre'
internet service with an ISP of his choice, it should all happen as if
it's an FTTC install"

That statement which is by you, is a totally inaccurate statement and WILL NOT HAPPEN, unless the ISP also sells the FTTP service to customers, the hint is given by a provider when you look up the address at the start of the order journey.

Oh I see the suggestion came from Magenta Systems. Oops

Post deleted by broadbandjockey

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

I think this got highlighted too you but repeating here, i.e. while FTTP has a top residential speed of 330 Mbps

Packages at 38, 52, 76, 100, 200 and 300 Mbps should all be available as options (but not all those selling FTTP will offer all those permutations)

"so in short if he just 'innocently' applies for a 'fibre'
internet service with an ISP of his choice, it should all happen as if
it's an FTTC install"

That statement which is by you, is a totally inaccurate statement and WILL NOT HAPPEN, unless the ISP also sells the FTTP service to customers, the hint is given by a provider when you look up the address at the start of the order journey.

Yes, understood. Point of order though, you left out the question mark on the bit you quoted from me, it wasn't a statement, it was a question !

In reply to a post by Rastus:

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

They do retail FTTP, but of course as discussed only as a trial for existing customers.

I'm a Plusnet customer, I wonder if there's a loophole there, where I could get the service installed for him in my name ?

As discussed earlier in this very thread, with this suggestion offered.

Yes, it's certainly a loop hole, but quite a bit of effort, and I'm not sure the net cost after all that would make it viable ?

Okay so answer to question is a total NO

A big oops

Not much effort IMO!

You may need to pay for a copper line to be installed to be able to order ADSLx unless you or a friend has a 'spare' one available.

PN don't charge for the FTTP install so there's an instant saving.

They also don't require you to retain a copper line so there's another saving (but they charge a perfectly reasonable (IMO) £2.50 p/m surcharge if you don't have a landline with them), so there's a big saving on line rental.

Monthly costs are £17.49 or £22.49 p/m for 40/2 or 80/20 respectively without PN landline, and yes, that's for 'Unlimited'!

One caveat is that you can't have a TV package on the FTTP trial as their back-office systems don't accommodate that.

TIP: If you do order a PN ADSL landline and broadband deal don't enter a contract for the landline, go for a monthly deal. It may cost more per month but you won't be tied in to a landline contract so you can then cancel said landline without penalty.

EDIT:
PS don't forget it doesn't have to be a PN landline, so you may be able to find a good deal elsewhere regarding copper line installation costs.
2nd EDIT:
Although the landline wouldn't need to be PN, it would need to be BT based, i.e. not LLU.

Edited by Rastus (Fri 13-Oct-17 20:20:37)

NOTE:

There are some developments where you cannot order and install a copper line, voice services are over fibre optic and a lot of the time it is the ones where the FTTP is pre-installed - big clue is if there is a battery back up unit next to the fibre ONT (modem)

Without knowing the address and checking on https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm hard to say. What the poster will see if its a FTTP only site, is no mention of ADSL2+ services at all.

Understood, but the idea is to get the copper line and ADSL service installed at another address, then apply for a 'house move', as per this post.

EDIT:
PS - provided the posters FTTP is BTOR based of course!

Edited by Rastus (Fri 13-Oct-17 19:05:00)

big clue is if there is a battery back up unit next to the fibre ONT

Or maybe not, they get fitted on almost all installs ... and the new ONTE's with a built in BBU are nearly upon us too.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

They also don't require you to retain a copper line so there's another saving (but they charge a perfectly reasonable (IMO) £2.50 p/m surcharge if you don't have a landline with them), so there's a big saving on line rental.

Maybe I misread/misunderstood + have snipped, but that reads like fttp without a copper line will save you paying line rental.
Unless this method is different being a trial, the data only FTTP product from openerach price lists is approx. £100 + VAT more than the price of with a line.
If no copper is available, FVA + DATA is not much more than as DATA alone, though it seems to be more than DATA + copper rental.
It's possible I am mis-reading the OR docs!

Yes it's probably because PN FTTP is classed as a trial that it's possible to not have a copper line and only pay the prices I quoted. They charge the same prices as their similar speed offerings on FTTC.

Also, PN do not offer a FVA service on their FTTP trial, but if a potential punter in an 'FTTP only' area wants a 'telephone line' there are plenty of VoIP services out there.

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Specifics are the key here...

' 'blindly' order a 'fibre' service from any ISP' this will only work if the provider is retailing the GEA-FTTP service.

Even if you order from BT Consumer the price should be in the
£26.99 to £31.99 for the entry level Infinity 1 product (up to 52 Mbps)
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/unli...
Package due to update this morning, but offers vary usually within that range and claiming reward softens it.

After 12 months the price jumps but trick is to migrate to someone like https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/zen/packages/fib... at £43.99/m or negotiate a rate reduction in return for another fixed term with BT. Plus in 12 months time it is likely more people will be retailing the FTTP version so might be more choice.

Thanks Andrew,

He will certainly want 'unlimited', and being a 'young person' doesn't need to worry about the voice side of things ! He had budgeted on 20-25 quid/m for broadband, so going 5-10 quid over won't be too much of a disaster, we'll help him with that. Yes, good point, 12-18 months on there should be more FTTP ISP choice to use a stick with BT, or migrate to.

Well, finally our lad exchanged contracts on Black Friday, and signed up of a FTTP service from BT on a Black Friday deal the following day.

He got the keys this weekend, and the activation was booked for today.

During sign up BT were reluctant to allow an 'Engineer Install' without payment, however
later in the process there was a question about the ONT box. 'Was it working, or was it damaged, or were
we uncertain ?. We clicked on 'Uncertain', and magically it turned into an FOC engineer install.

Good job too. The PON light has been lit for about a fortnight. I'd tried my own router on Port 1 with the generic BT log on. No connection. The supplied BT Hub was the same. The BT man arrived today, took one look at all the lights, and came to the same conclusion as me (thankfully) that it was an authentication problem.
He phoned whatever portal BT engineers phone, and after 15 mins on hold, spoke to someone. Read out
the ONT's serial number to them, and after a couple of mins all burst into life. (Except the phone line, that took another 6 hours, but hey !)

Anyway, glad we did opt for an engineer install, it would have been a nightmare trying to persuade CS that it wasn't a hard fault, and would have meant another day waiting in.

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

Well, finally our lad exchanged contracts on Black Friday, and signed up of a FTTP service from BT on a Black Friday deal the following day. ..........

He phoned whatever portal BT engineers phone, and after 15 mins on hold, spoke to someone. Read out
the ONT's serial number to them, and after a couple of mins all burst into life. (Except the phone line, that took another 6 hours, but hey !) ....

I presume from your post that BT Retail insist your son has a "phone line" as part of his FTTP service? - Much like PaulKirby suggested.

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

Well, finally our lad exchanged contracts on Black Friday, and signed up of a FTTP service from BT on a Black Friday deal the following day. ..........

He phoned whatever portal BT engineers phone, and after 15 mins on hold, spoke to someone. Read out
the ONT's serial number to them, and after a couple of mins all burst into life. (Except the phone line, that took another 6 hours, but hey !) ....

I presume from your post that BT Retail insist your son has a "phone line" as part of his FTTP service? - Much like PaulKirby suggested.

Yes, there seemed no way to avoid it on sign up. I dragged an old 5 quid at Argos phone out of my junk box, and it's plugged into the port on the ONT, which is housed inside a cupboard. I switched the ringer off, so he's not ever troubled by any PPI or ' This is Microsoft' calls !.

I think you may have misunderstood a little.

Their insistence that you rent an FVA service from them does not mean you have to a phone plugged in to the line.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I think you may have misunderstood a little.

Their insistence that you rent an FVA service from them does not mean you have to a phone plugged in to the line.

Oh, there's no misunderstanding, I realise that, I've just plugged a phone in for him, in case he ever swallows his mobile (or similar disaster), and has to phone 999 !