G.fast 320m from the cabinet

So a very nice Openreach engineer came on Friday to install my G.fast connection. Unfortunately, it turns out I'm even further away from the cab that BT thought - 320m as opposed to 270. I'm hitting 100mb quite a lot of the time, but I get plenty of speedtests around the 75mb mark. I was originally quoted 153mb and as I had very clean VDSL I was hoping for somewhere near that. The engineer himself did seem to be slightly disappointed and mentioned potentially switching me to another pair but at this distance I'm not sure if that's going to make any difference. Anyone else been in this situation? Will they let me drop down to VDSL? My minimum speed is 85mb which I'm quite often below.
All feedback gratefully received.

When you say below minimum speed are you talking sync speed or throughput?

If the sync speed is stable and good then throughput issues may be done to ISP network or other issues than the G.fast

Hi Andrew.

I'm talking throughput. The first thing I did was unplug the EE router and hook the modem in to my Ubiquiti setup so is there any way I can get my sync speed without plugging that 'thing' back in?

Cheers!

G.fast just seems like a complete waste of time and money to me?

Edited by lockyatlrg (Tue 12-Mar-19 07:45:40)

It is certainly an utter waste of time and money if you are far enough away from the cabinet to make no difference at all! Why would they invest so much money in a technology to satisfy so few? Bonkers.

Edited by derekdel (Tue 12-Mar-19 08:09:57)

In reply to a post by derekdel:

Why would they invest so much money in a technology to satisfy so few?

Because it's a cheap way to bulk up their ultrafast coverage / properties passed stats. All they have to do is stick a 24-port G.fast pod on a PCP, and suddenly 300+ properties are supposedly ultrafast-enabled - even if nobody uses it.

At 30 June 2018 (end of BT Q1) they only had about 4,000 connected properties on G.fast, but there were 1.1 million where it was "available".

As the OP has found, even properties where it is nominally available may find it doesn't work when they try to connect.

EDIT: Here are later figures to end of December 2018, showing G.Fast coverage of 1.71m properties, but take-up of just 15K.

Clearly there aren't many people with a solid 80/20 FTTC who have the desire to trade it for a flaky G.fast.

Edited by candlerb (Tue 12-Mar-19 18:24:36)

On getting sync speed without using supplied hardware, don't think so.

If issue is throughput then usually things are better in the wee hours and the shape of the graph from a speed test can provide some hints i.e. post link to test result from https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest

Hi

Also G.Fast, if the line length is longish, might see a faster download speed, but can often see a reduction in upload speed compared to VDSL. For most people capable of getting G.Fast (so already on max or very good VDSL), it's an increase in upload speed that's often more beneficial these days.

G.Fast will go down in history as a waste of money by Openreach, just seems to be a box ticking marketing exercise. Granted some lucky people will be getting some extra good speed from G.Fast, but then they always were getting good speeds on VDSL.

Regards

Phil

This is why I am staying with VDSL2. I suggest all of you to stop buying G.Fast product if available to them and it will make Openreach look more foolish in the first place. Should have FTTP instead.

G.Fast are just like ADSL2+ if you live too far, you get lower speed but some getting more speed on VDSL2 than G.Fast. Just save yourself money & stick with your FTTC until FTTP come along.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I suggest all of you to stop buying G.Fast product if available to them

As per the figures I quoted, almost nobody is buying it anyway.

If you live right on top of the cabinet, and G.Fast is available and you want it, you might as well take it. It demonstrates a demand for ultrafast services, which perhaps indirectly helps the business case for FTTP. But really, the bulk of FTTP takeup will be most in those areas not able to get a good copper broadband.

When BDUK FTTC was rolled out to remote and supposedly "non-viable" areas, Openreach seemed to be surprised at take-up rates of 60%+. In retrospect, it should have been obvious that anyone who has been putting up with <2Mbps on ADSL is bound to jump at the chance of FTTC. People close to the exchange already getting 16-24Mbps on ADSL 2+ were the ones least likely to upgrade.

Before people get used to the line that no-one is buying G.fast so its useless, at this time in areas where VDSL2 at decent speeds is available you can say the same for FTTP.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

When BDUK FTTC was rolled out to remote and supposedly "non-viable" areas, Openreach seemed to be surprised at take-up rates of 60%+. In retrospect, it should have been obvious that anyone who has been putting up with <2Mbps on ADSL is bound to jump at the chance of FTTC. People close to the exchange already getting 16-24Mbps on ADSL 2+ were the ones least likely to upgrade.

It should have been obvious in advance let alone retrospect. BT where similarly spectacularly wrong about the original ADSL rollout. It is why a rational person does not believe a single word coming out of BT on economic viability of deploying any broadband technology. They have a demonstrated track record of being utterly incompetent in this area.

Similarly if you are only getting 20Mbps on VDSL you are more likely to upgrade to a FTTP connection than someone already getting a solid 80/20. Which is why G.fast is really a waste of time for the most part.

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

G.fast just seems like a complete waste of time and money to me?

Openreach largely agree but the politics made it worthwhile.

They should really have abandoned G.fast when they decided not to put them closer to houses.

The copper network is already crumbling to the point we have DLM managing FTTC lines. G.fast puts even more strain on the copper network so if the line quality isn't of a certain standard then predicted speeds are an educated guess at best probably based off line length.

The difference between G.fast and FTTP is night and day, like comparing an abacus to a calculator.

So I've not got round to swapping back to the EE router, but judging by the BT Wholesale speed test, my ip profile is 109.15mb. My BQM shows some pretty lousy spikes around 8-10pm for the last few days and I'm beginning to regret making the change. The engineer mentioned trying the other pair if I had issues. I take it I'm going to have to call EE and beg them to send someone with Clue 1 out? If he can't sort it I'm going to ask if I can drop down to VDSL.

Hi

The lack of take-up of FTTP is largely down to lack of advertising or clarity to the end user that it is available and the benefits it brings.

For years people have been sold "Fibre broadband" when it's not, a lot of my friends and family think they already have fibre, explaining they haven't got fibre is often met with disbelief. So how do you market FTTP?

I think the industry has little appetite for getting customers to move to FTTP, for one, they have to now somehow admit the products they have been selling as "Fibre" are nothing of the sort, second, speeds are generally fast enough for a large majority of people. Also with churn in the industry, its easier to attract customers from other providers with money off offers and "our best ever Wi-Fi" if the customer has the path of least effort and so don't have to be home for kit to be installed (as they would for FTTP initially), and there are far fewer support issues switching a customer from one VDSL provider to another. For an ISP, what incentive is there to offer FTTP when it becomes available for the customer just to keep on the same product speeds of say 80/20 and paying a similar price?

The numbers of FTTP connections that are live currently are largely made up of new builds, where FTTP will have been promoted by the sales office, and in many cases is the only option as there is no copper.

Openreach are busy passing as many properties as possible for FTTP, but even they don't have the appetite at this time for actually going the full 100% and connecting each house up, they'd father that be a slow trickle at this time so they can concentrate on just passing properties, and actually connecting all those homes and the eventual removal of copper is a problem for later. It will be many years before the industry is actively getting people to move to FTTP, as they are just waiting for the application or the change in how we use the Internet to make it something people will need to buy and pay a premium for the faster speeds.

Regards

Phil

Edited by deleted (Wed 20-Mar-19 07:57:02)

Hopefully once the majority of the larger resellers of BT wholesale products get on board and start selling the FTTP product (where available) there can be a real push to sell the full fibre product rather than the copper products even to the point that Openreach refuse to install copper services to properties where full fibre exists, this does mean that equivalent product speeds should be sold for the same price and even a ADSL equivalent speed option is created for FTTP.

[Edit]: would not expect those resellers with ADSL kit in the local exchange to stop selling it

Edited by deleted (Wed 20-Mar-19 08:35:22)

The forced price increase of the FTTP 40/10 service in areas where FTTC 40/10 is available from Ofcom says all you need to know about getting a remove copper switch to fibre programme rolling, i.e. due to aims of encouraging multiple infrastructure platforms a rip out is some years away.

Is this true as I heard if these VDSL Range Clean A on the low estimated range went below 65.9 then there is no chance of having G.fast because of longer length. Anything between 78.6 and 65.9 on the low on VDSL Range Clean A will get guaranteed G.fast.

Edited by adslmax (Wed 20-Mar-19 12:29:07)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Anything between 78.6 and 65.9 on the low on VDSL Range Clean A will get guaranteed G.fast.

No; you don't get "guaranteed" G.fast based on your VDSL speed. You get G.fast availability based on what the checker says is available.

However as a rule-of-thumb, if you get anything less than a full 80 on VDSL your chances of getting G.fast are probably low.

Ah ok. Thanks

You're right in what you say Philip.

My neighbours just got Sky Fibre, and when talking my dad mentioned to him that I'm thinking of paying for full fibre. The neighbour thought he'd bought fibre.

It is amazing how much mis-selling is going on in the broadband industry. But because at one time it suited all the ISP's nobody pulled each other up about it.

As for marketing FTTP, high speeds, reliability, less things can go wrong, and future-proof. Once a person makes the jump they are ready for the future.

I think everyone is waiting for the networks to be built. That's the only hold up.

It's a good job CityFibre arrived on the scene, or we'd still be getting the old line "Well what do you need all that speed for".. as the moth balls gather on the copper lines

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The forced price increase of the FTTP 40/10 service in areas where FTTC 40/10 is available from Ofcom says all you need to know about getting a remove copper switch to fibre programme rolling, i.e. due to aims of encouraging multiple infrastructure platforms a rip out is some years away.

That's very disappointing to learn. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Anything between 78.6 and 65.9 on the low on VDSL Range Clean A will get guaranteed G.fast.

No; you don't get "guaranteed" G.fast based on your VDSL speed. You get G.fast availability based on what the checker says is available.

However as a rule-of-thumb, if you get anything less than a full 80 on VDSL your chances of getting G.fast are probably low.

I persume that would be the case however Openreach seem adamant in my case that I can get g.fast and I'd say I'm around 300-350m from the cabinet itself and I currently get around 70-65Mbps on VDSL.

I'll have no idea on this since I was quoted that g.fast will go live at the summer since the pods recently started appearing last week.

By all means take it, but:

1. Make sure you get a speed guarantee, i.e. that they will let you back onto VDSL at no penalty if your line doesn't achieve a consistent 100M+

2. Beware that you may be swapping a solid 70M line for a flakey 100M line - i.e. more dropouts / retrains.

3. Is upload speed important to you? At such an extreme distance, it's quite likely that you will get a *lower* upload speed on G.fast than you currently get on VDSL.

In reply to a post by supertourinvec:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Anything between 78.6 and 65.9 on the low on VDSL Range Clean A will get guaranteed G.fast.

No; you don't get "guaranteed" G.fast based on your VDSL speed. You get G.fast availability based on what the checker says is available.

However as a rule-of-thumb, if you get anything less than a full 80 on VDSL your chances of getting G.fast are probably low.

I persume that would be the case however Openreach seem adamant in my case that I can get g.fast and I'd say I'm around 300-350m from the cabinet itself and I currently get around 70-65Mbps on VDSL.

I'll have no idea on this since I was quoted that g.fast will go live at the summer since the pods recently started appearing last week.

I'm 309M from the cab, had full speed 80-20 VDSL.

Cab is enabled, no G.fast service to me, or anyone unless they are about 10 houses away from the cab (I can see the cab from my house!).

This whole rollout is just a waste of money and time.

Checker results
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 62.5 20 19 56.9 Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 60 20 19 55 Available --

Edited by Philce (Wed 20-Mar-19 20:33:34)

Based on my experience I'd say leave it the hell alone. I'm going to call them on Tuesday which will probably be a stressful experience. It's been significantly more stable the last couple of days but I'm only getting 10mb upload when I used to get 16mb. I'd quite happily trade that 100mb down to 80mb to get that upload back, along with another tenner a month in my pocket!