3db SNR - DLM Parameters?

What does DLM look for in a line for it then to proceed reducing the target SNR from 6 to 3db?

Retransmissions from the cab to the modem.

Packet errors really, best thing is to get your home wiring set up right plug the modem in the best point and set up a mesh wireless. Let the DLM do its job and get a stable connection

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Feb-20 19:57:22)

Just curious as to why it hasn't kicked in on my line yet. At my previous property I think it was around a week it started decreasing.

I'm around 20 days in since my regrade to 80/20, current VDSL uptime is 10 days. G.INP activated.

Is it causing a problem?

If you are syncing at 80/20 in your router stats at 6dB, then why would you want it to drop to 3dB? It is not like you are going to get more speed. Even if the maximum attainable rate was increased, the ISP on FTTC will still lock it at 80000 kbps Download and 20000 kbps Upload.

6dB 80/20 is exactly the way it should be. The only reason one would want 3dB is if the router is failing to sync at the maximum settings. Higher dB and higher speed attainability is usually a characteristic of a good and clean line.

Usually a bad line and crosstalk would want to force 3dB to achieve max sync speeds, which is not what anyone wants.

Sync speed is 68/20

Sad days you don't live close enough to the green cab

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

Sync speed is 68/20

If your G.INP is enabled and low retransmission on downstream with snr 6dB then you are far away from the cabinet.

My parents on their FTTC got G.INP enabled and low retransmission on downstream with snr 3dB for their connection sync at 67/20 as their cabinet approx 450m away.

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

Sync speed is 68/20

Wait for DLM to see if it will readjust. Take a look at the https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Addre... checker! What does it say for your line, max speeds?

This should give you an indicator if your line is capable of faster speeds.

Now I don't know if it is the rain or the storm that has to do with the reduced noise margins. In my case there is a drop in my noise margin.

Line 1
Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 80000 19999
Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80534 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 5.90 15.10
Attenuation [dB] 17.90 0.00
Power [dBm] 13.00 7.60

Drop from 6.40dB to 5.90dB and my Upload has dropped from 15.40dB to 15.10dB! Now I blame this on the rain and storm, but my connection sync has remained so far stable 14 days at full 80000Kbps sync, so I am pleased for now as long as it doesn't drop any further.

I am around 300 meters from cabinet. It was like 68/20 when I first joined TalkTalk on the 3rd of Feb and then it jumped to 80/20 after a few days and initially I was getting only 66-69 Mbps in speed test despite 80000 but then after 3-4 days it suddenly started giving me speed tests of 75-80 Mbps.

Things can improve, make sure Faceplate MK4 is installed and there aren't any other internal wiring issues. Use Cat 5/6/7 cables instead of WiFi.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 80000 19999
Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80534 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 5.90 15.10
Attenuation [dB] 17.90 0.00
Power [dBm] 13.00 7.60

Something a little odd with your figures though. With a 15dB upstream margin, I would expect to see a Max Rate (Achievable) of well over 20000, probably around 25000 to 28000 with an Actual of 20000/19999/19998.

Downstream, suggests you may already have a 5dB profile/target. If you did not, then the Max would be sub 80000

Yes, it seems you are right that with a 15dB profile my upstream should exceed 20000. But it doesn't really bother me as the TalkTalk ISP and all FTTC providers will lock the speed to 20Mbps upload anyway. As long as the upstream always remains at that, that's all that matters for me.

It could also be the TalkTalk Wi-Fi Hub router that is programmed to sync at that speed or is either misreporting.

My downstream is actually a 6dB target because I've seen it at 6.40dB a few days ago and it dropped to 5.90 and now hovers to 6.00dB. Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80534

I strongly suspect because of the gust winds and rain as before that noise margin was 6.40dB.
So far my connection up-time has been 14 days! Something that was impossible to achieve on ADSL with a 6dB noise margin profile. On ADSL I would always have to contact my ISP such as with Sky or Plusnet either by phone or on their forums to lock the noise margin to 9dB for the connection to be stable.

Under FTTC my connection seems to be stable so far with little fluctuation in noise margins. This can be partly explained from the fact that my cabinet is 290 meters of copper vs 1000+ meters of copper to exchange on ADSL.

Edited by BLaZiNgSPEED (Thu 20-Feb-20 17:56:57)

My line attenuation is exactly the same as yours on my HG612. On my old TP-Link Archer used to say 12db.

I'm at least 300m away from the cab, just not sure the route of the line as this house was one of the last finished. It's all underground.

BT checker says Clean 79.4 to 56.2. Impacted 77.1 to 52.5.

Edited by wolvesmad (Fri 21-Feb-20 19:38:54)

At a rough guess i'd say it's 350m away.

That sync 68/20 is with G.INP on, 6db SNR, which seems to sit at 6.5db all day / night.

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

BT checker says Clean 79.4 to 56.2. Impacted 77.1 to 52.5.

My parents bt checker says below:

High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 79.2 55.8 20 18.5 50.1 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 77 51.8 20 16.6 44 Available Available --

Observed Speeds


VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed (Mbps) 46.36
Max Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 20
Observed Date 2020-02-20

Edited by adslmax (Fri 21-Feb-20 21:10:13)

I'm expecting around 72-73 / 20 on a 3db SNR.

Can't see me getting the full sync.

Just wondered what the delay in DLM has been.

I never big fan in Openreach DLM on FTTC. But I was very lucky as my line can do G.fast 229/50 and 80/20 on FTTC.

My cab is a small single door and the FTTC cab is a 128 line Huawei so ive got little to zero chance of G.Fast.

The other twin door cabs around here have pods on.

No cable.

So I'm on FTTC for the foreseeable.

This is what the checker says for my line at 330 to 360 meters.

VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 62.4 20 19 56.9
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 60 20 19 54.9


And stats when I was on VDSL

Connection Speed 79999 kbps 19999 kbps
Line Attenuation (dB) DS1:9.5 DS2:20.9 DS3:31.1 US0:5.3 US1:17.8 US2:24.6
Noise Margin (dB) DS1:6.5 DS2:6.5 DS3:6.5 US0:13.7 US1:13.8 US2:13.8

Edited by lockyatlrg (Sat 22-Feb-20 01:16:48)

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

My line attenuation is exactly the same as yours on my HG612. On my old TP-Link Archer used to say 12db.

I'm at least 300m away from the cab, just not sure the route of the line as this house was one of the last finished. It's all underground.

BT checker says Clean 79.4 to 56.2. Impacted 77.1 to 52.5.

My cabinet is located in 46 Frostic Walk, Shadwell, London E1 5LT https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Bishopsgate+Telephon...
Just for my own security I did not include my home. Just cabinet location and BT Exchange location.

As you can see Bishopsgate Telephone Exchange, 20 Jerome St, Spitalfields, London E1 6NJ in my case takes a route via Brick Lane and then back to 46 Frostic Walk and from there to my home via Wentworth Street. This artificially increases the length of the copper travel. But if we were to include this route to my home from exchange it becomes 960+ meters to home with ADSL pure copper and add 40 meters and it's like 1000 meters.

When we exclude the telephone exchange and only connection from the cabinet to home that is around 290 meters. The way I do this is by calculating the length of copper from cabinet to exchange which is 0.4 miles ~ 644 meters. Now that would be around 644 meters of Fibre traveling from BT Exchange to the cabinet and the rest of the 300 meters is copper to my home.

This is probably not the most accurate estimation of the measurement, but it is very close and is reflective of the speeds I am getting.

So far my line has been like this...
Line 1
Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 80000 19999
Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80534 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 5.90 15.00
Attenuation [dB] 17.90 0.00
Power [dBm] 13.00 7.60

My Internet Connection

Status
Connected

Current speed
Download
80.0 Mbps
Upload
20.0 Mbps

Connection up-time

Connected since 15d 11h06m41s

Noise margin has been stuck to 5.90dB and has not returned back to 6.40dB. Only positive is so far 15+ days stable connection uptime. This has never ever been the case with ADSL. With a 6dB profile on ADSL my connection would drop-out 2-5 times a day! But here via FTTC now it has been a good 15 days so far. As long as those noise margins don't yo-yo too much connection should remain stable for a long time.

I'm glad I am getting these speeds. Because my management team have refused to grant wayleave to Hyperoptic for FTTP.

If your figures are showing 79.4 you should be getting that at least in your router stat unless you are suffering crosstalk or some other issues such as router.

I should be getting a little more really then even at 6db. The only thing I can think is the crosstalk is rather high due to the lack of Virgin cable here.

BT have recently fitted an extension to the FTTC cab do it's definitely busy.

At my previous house, my attenuation was 16db and on a 3db SNR with G.INP on, I connected at 74/20.

Also in an area with no cable and high cross talk.

Edited by wolvesmad (Sat 22-Feb-20 10:47:55)

Updated: my parents has been updated by DLM this morning due to DLM Policy from Standard to Speed.

Changed:
- Max Observed Downstream Speed (Mbps) 46.36
- Max Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 20
- Observed Date 2020-02-20
... into:
+ Max Observed Downstream Speed (Mbps) 68.02
+ Max Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 20
+ Observed Date 2020-02-22

Max rate: 68.7Mbps/21.4Mbps
Data rate: 68Mbps/19.9Mbps

Downstream SNR: 2.9dB
Upstream SNR: 5.9dB

Interleaved low on both G.INP Enabled

Line attenuation: 15.1dB (down) 19.5dB (up)

Download speedachieved during the test was - 64.33 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 40 Mbps-66.1 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 66.1 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 18.83Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Feb-20 13:15:07)

With a 17.9dB attenuation, I would suggest your line is maybe 450-500m from house to cabinet, although it will depend on te guage of wire.

Mine, and I know the exact route, is 450m with 16.4dB attenuation. And at 80+ with 5.9dB margin does suggest fairly low/below average noise levels.

It's the same here. No virgin media anywhere so everyone is on FTTC and crosstalk is an issue.

In reply to a post by MHC:

With a 17.9dB attenuation, I would suggest your line is maybe 450-500m from house to cabinet, although it will depend on te guage of wire.

Mine, and I know the exact route, is 450m with 16.4dB attenuation. And at 80+ with 5.9dB margin does suggest fairly low/below average noise levels.

Well, I do not know how my line is syncing at 80+ Mbps if my cabinet is 450-500m to my property and that too on a 6dB profile. I live in a residential building, with those measurements it would drop to 60 Mbps speed test.

Those measurements on google maps show up as 290-320 meters. I also walked from my home to the cabinet location which is only 4 minutes walk. Unless of-course it is taking a different route back to my building. A direct route to the entrance of my building via Wentworth Street shows 250 meters, unless it is circuiting from the back of my building and traveling a little bit further. But even then it should not add more than 50 meters of additional copper, never mind 200 meters extra.

But anyway, let's just assume my line is 450 meters to cabinet as you believe it is based on 17.9dB attenuation, I shouldn't be getting 80Mbps while wolvesmad at 300 meters only gets 68Mbps! Something must be wrong here. Because my area and block also does not have Virgin Media!

The cabinet 20 is only serving my building and a few other small blocks near 46 Frostic Walk. The other buildings near me are served by different cabinet numbers.

At one time, with this line I had a max achievable of nearly 90Mbps. So it is possible to get an 80Mbps sync, IF the noise and cross talk level is low. Mine is currently around 70Mbps, however if one particular neighbour disconnects their modem, mine willl jump up to around 78Mbps. Even without that, my line will finally retrain down to 3dB and a Max achievable around 80 or just over.

So much is related to noise and cross talk and every line and every location will be different.

In reply to a post by MHC:

With a 17.9dB attenuation, I would suggest your line is maybe 450-500m from house to cabinet, although it will depend on te guage of wire.

Mine, and I know the exact route, is 450m with 16.4dB attenuation. And at 80+ with 5.9dB margin does suggest fairly low/below average noise levels.

My attenuation was 14db off the HG612 and my line is about 330 to 360 meters or so.

From my front door to the cab via pavement it's 330m to the cab. Plenty of cul-de-sacs though so no idea if it goes directly there. As these houses were finished last, I have a feeling it could be over 400m. I did ask the BT Engineer how long the D side was when my line was 'flooded' and he said his box of tricks couldn't tell him.

At my old property, I was the first connection on the cab and connected at 79999/20000 on 17db attenuation. As the cab became busier and then became a 384 line cab, I ended up down to 58000/20000. G.INP and 3db SNR took me back up to 70-72000/20000.

With a powercut, my HG612 would beat the other routers to sync and would reconnect at full sync with 3db snr and then eventually drop it.

I was hoping for vectoring on this cab as it was a funded cab. No such luck.

Edited by wolvesmad (Sat 22-Feb-20 18:33:17)

Where do you get the detailed DLM stats from adslmax?

HG612 Modem Stats

In reply to a post by adslmax:

HG612 Modem Stats

The truth, but not the whole truth .

Your post referred to seems to me to be a combination of HG612 stats, BT Wholesale estimator output, and BT Wholesale speed test Further Diagnostics.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 22-Feb-20 22:30:50)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

BT Wholesale estimator output, and BT Wholesale speed test Further Diagnostics.

I think wolvesmad already know this one!

Other people, maybe even newbies and non-registered people, read these forums for information, help and advice .

It seems like the BT Checker doesn't reflect real world performance.

Something really bizarre has happened with the BT checker for my post code and this I have noticed today for the first time!
This is the latest readings now...
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 78.1 55 20 14.2 49 Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 75.5 49 20 12.1 40 Available --

Before it was
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 68.2 20 19 62.1 Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 65.1 20 19 56.6 Available --

I cannot explain this drastic drop from the minimum 68.2Mbps to 55Mbps and 49Mbps for Impacted while before it was 65.1Mbps.

The highest now shows as 78.1Mbps. Nonetheless, this has had zero negative effect on my speeds.

Line 1
Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 80000 19999
Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80534 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 6.30 15.00
Attenuation [dB] 17.90 0.00
Power [dBm] 13.00 7.50

I am still syncing at max 80Mbps and 20Mbps upload so far 27 days connection up-time! And noise margins have been at 6.30dB. Briefly it did drop to 5.80dB for a few days but the connection sync has been unaffected.

Last few days the noise margins jumped back up to 6.30-6.40dB and 27 days no drop-out at full speeds. BT Checker doesn't really make any sense, I do not believe in the last few days there can be such a drastic crosstalk that would make the estimated speeds drop to this low.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what the checker estimates show. As long as the router stats sync at the max 80000, 19999 I suppose that's all that really matters! The fact I am still syncing at max speeds at 6+dB noise margins suggest there isn't any crosstalk yet.

Rather than using your postcode try using your telephone number and if that isn't recognised (if not on a BT Wholeslae line) use the address checker - entering your postcode and then selecting your address from the drop down box. Remember that not everyone on a postcode sees the same speeds.

What checker says does not impact your sync speeds, so if started showing just 10 Kbps your sync would remain where is was.

Likely that another property in the postcode has feedback some sync data and things have been recalculated

Yes, I've tried using my telephone number to check. But I get
"There is no data available for this number. This could be either because it is not a BT line or it is a new BT number that has just been provided. Most new numbers will appear on the checker 24 hours after BT has installed the line.

If this is a new BT number and does not appear after 24 hours then please click here for further details."

I switched to TalkTalk with a new telephone number as part of the upgrade on the 3rd of February last month.

The old telephone number is cancelled. The new number has shown the same result last 1 month on the BT Checker https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Telep...

I've read I have to wait around 6 weeks for this change to take into effect. Anyway, when I joined last month TalkTalk FTTC it was 68.2Mbps minimum 80Mbps max for clean line.

In fact the BT Openreach engineer came on the day of the install with a VDSL Faceplate upgrade and he checked his device and it showed 70Mbps minimum and 83Mbps max for my address.

However, the checker on the website https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Addre... has changed today for the first time to 55Mbps Low and 78.1Mbps High which has kind of shocked me. Something I have never observed before since making the same test from October 2019 when my cabinet went live until today.

Good news is that my router has pretty much always synced at 80000/19999 Kbps from the very beginning since I've joined and consistently got 75-80Mbps in speed test. Line has so far been very stable for 27 days no drop-outs, so I am pleased so far.

I just don't understand why the speed estimates on the BT checker have changed so much. I would think if it was crosstalk then my noise margins would try to drop to 3dB to achieve max sync. But it has been averaging consistently above 6dB download and 15dB upload.

Why are you fretting about this ?? It is, quite simply, not worth worrying about.

You have a short line. It produces stable high speed sync.

Move along please, nothing to see here.

Many thanks for the reassurance, Zarjaz!

You are probably right, I shouldn't be worrying about these estimate figures!

I just wanted to make sure my speeds aren't affected any time for the foreseeable future. And I hope that if in case my router did re-sync next time due to power cut, etc that it would continue to sync at the full 80Mbps and not drop to 78Mbps.

That was my only concern, other than that I have no other complaints. Fingers crossed, it remains that way!

I'll repeat - what the checker says is in no way going to influence how the modem resyncs

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Many thanks for the reassurance, Zarjaz!

You are probably right, I shouldn't be worrying about these estimate figures!

I just wanted to make sure my speeds aren't affected any time for the foreseeable future. And I hope that if in case my router did re-sync next time due to power cut, etc that it would continue to sync at the full 80Mbps and not drop to 78Mbps.

That was my only concern, other than that I have no other complaints. Fingers crossed, it remains that way!

I don�t understand why you care if it drops to 78Mb! You wouldn�t notice, don�t worry about it.

Had a power cut 2 days ago and i'm currently synced at 79999 / 20000 with a 2db SNR.

Wonder how long this will last for.

Well I do not know if I also suffered a minor power cut or what, but my router seemed to have reset itself just this past hour after 30 days of stable up time.

System Up Time 01h21m49s

Router speed has still re-synced at Actual Rate [Kbps] 80000 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 6.10 14.90

Normally system up time should not reset itself unless there is a power cut. But I was watching TV and there were no power cuts at all.

This same problem I had with Plusnet ADSL router where System Up Time would reset itself since around November. I believe it was a faulty Plusnet router.

But now I have experienced it again this time with the TalkTalk router. I only checked router stats out of curiosity and noticed the reset.

Before the cabinet upgrade my system up time in router would generally remain stable for months but would only drop out in connection. Maybe this is just a coincidence.

This time it appears that the connection was ok, but the router rebooted itself.

Maybe I need to use a Surge Protected Extension Lead for my router?

Why are you concerned about a router restarting every 30 days? When I had FTTC the Homehub 6 or whatever BT called rebooted every 14 days. Speed went up by maybe a megabyte or down by a megabyte depending on time of day or if the weather has changed significantly. Pointless fretting about it. A megabyte to me was 1/20th of my speed.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Why are you concerned about a router restarting every 30 days? When I had FTTC the Homehub 6 or whatever BT called rebooted every 14 days. Speed went up by maybe a megabyte or down by a megabyte depending on time of day or if the weather has changed significantly. Pointless fretting about it. A megabyte to me was 1/20th of my speed.

I don�t even look at my sync speed. If I noticed problems then I would.

I really don�t know why people worry about these things.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Why are you concerned about a router restarting every 30 days? When I had FTTC the Homehub 6 or whatever BT called rebooted every 14 days. Speed went up by maybe a megabyte or down by a megabyte depending on time of day or if the weather has changed significantly. Pointless fretting about it. A megabyte to me was 1/20th of my speed.

If I know for 100% certainty that this restart after 30 days was programmed by design then I won't be worried!
I was concerned whether this is related to a technical fault of the router such as overheating. Because under the old Plusnet ADSL router Sagemcom 2704n this reboot was happening randomly and it was a fault, sometimes 6 days, 13 days, 26 days, etc.

With Sky ADSL I had a connection up time of 56 days a couple of years ago despite having so many problems with ADSL reliability as noise margins back then had to be capped at 9dB. But the Sky ADSL system up time never ever restarted by itself, it would stay on for months at a time, only the connection up-time would reset!

Now I know at least in this particular case with TalkTalk it was not DLM or noise margin related as the speeds have re-synced at 80/20. It is not weather related as there were no winds, rain, etc.

You seem to be right that the BT Home Hub 6 reboots every 14 days by design. But I need to know that the TalkTalk Wifi Hub Fast 5364 is doing this every 30 days by design otherwise I won't know if I need a new router replacement. I probably need to consult on the official TalkTalk forums for clarification.

As far as the BT users are concerned some have said buying a new aftermarket router instead of using the ISP router solves this issue.

My extension leads are also over 10 years old which is something I am also concerned about and the router isn't plugged into a surge protection lead. I am looking to replace that and isolate the router from the other electronic devices, just for the benefit of the doubt.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I was concerned whether this is related to a technical fault of the router such as overheating. Because under the old Plusnet ADSL router Sagemcom 2704n this reboot was happening randomly and it was a fault, sometimes 6 days, 13 days, 26 days, etc.

Some routers reboot when the SNR Margin drops too low. Instead of just resync, they reboot the whole router at the same time. The only way to get around this is to have a separate modem and router. Unusual with ADSL, more common with VDSL (FTTC).

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Some routers reboot when the SNR Margin drops too low. Instead of just resync, they reboot the whole router at the same time. The only way to get around this is to have a separate modem and router. Unusual with ADSL, more common with VDSL (FTTC).

Would be interesting in you naming a modem that reboots when SNRM is low.

I don't even know of any modems that deliberately resync when SNRM is low, nevermind reboot themselves.
Modems resync when SNRM is too low because they can't hold on to the sync. It's not a deliberate act.

I last saw this on the BeBox, a Technicolor modem.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I was concerned whether this is related to a technical fault of the router such as overheating. Because under the old Plusnet ADSL router Sagemcom 2704n this reboot was happening randomly and it was a fault, sometimes 6 days, 13 days, 26 days, etc.

Some routers reboot when the SNR Margin drops too low. Instead of just resync, they reboot the whole router at the same time. The only way to get around this is to have a separate modem and router. Unusual with ADSL, more common with VDSL (FTTC).

Well in the case of the Plusnet ADSL router Sagemcom 2704n I can confirm it was a defect with the router.

Because I had it with the first router and inquired on their forums and I then received a replacement in February 2019 and it lasted for several months until November 2019 when it finally started rebooting by itself.

When initially it was disconnecting only the connection up time was affected but the system up time was not. I think I accidentally damaged the Plusnet router when I first placed my new 1000W Inverter Microwave next to the router in my bedroom temporarily because in the kitchen I needed to sort out the brackets so it can fit there.

And after heating food in the microwave I noticed the router would disconnect and even after I had stopped using the microwave, I believe the damage had already been done. Because ever since from November until February the Plusnet ADSL router would randomly reboot itself every 6, 13, 20 days on average and it was progressively getting worse.
----
As for the TalkTalk FTTC router I have very closely kept an eye over the last 30 days and checked router stats every single day for a few times and I have not seen the noise margins drop to below 5.80dB and mostly hovers around 6.30dB.

I would find it coincidental that exactly when the 30th day mark occurred the router rebooted itself. You'd think if this was noise margin related then my router would lower the sync speed.

But anyway, I asked a reviewer on youtube who told me if this behaviour occurs again in the next 30 days that way I will find out and advised me to buy my own router instead as he uses his own so he couldn't give me his experience. I also asked on the TalkTalk forums and am awaiting a response.

If this is normal behaviour by programming at least I don't have anything to worry about. But if it is a router defect then I may have to request a replacement or look into replacing my extension lead to see if that has anything to do with it.

In the meantime the only way I can confirm if this is normal is if some other TalkTalk FTTC user can confirm if they've seen the System Uptime above 30 days. So far I already found out that certain BT Home Hub like Home Hub 6 reboots every 14 days and some after 30 days. But I'll need to confirm if this applies for the TalkTalk router as well.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I was concerned whether this is related to a technical fault of the router such as overheating. Because under the old Plusnet ADSL router Sagemcom 2704n this reboot was happening randomly and it was a fault, sometimes 6 days, 13 days, 26 days, etc.

Some routers reboot when the SNR Margin drops too low. Instead of just resync, they reboot the whole router at the same time. The only way to get around this is to have a separate modem and router. Unusual with ADSL, more common with VDSL (FTTC).

I believe the damage had already been done. Because ever since from November until February the Plusnet ADSL router would randomly reboot itself every 6, 13, 20 days on average and it was progressively getting worse.

Surely there�s more important things you could be doing than worrying about your router restarting every 6 days.

When I was in Openreach (I�m not now) the most recent training we had said that losing sync on xDSL once a day is nothing to be concerned about and quite normal. They didn�t even want us to waste our time on that!

Unfortunately this time yet again the internet system up time has reset and this time my connection has been affected and dropped to a lower sync speed.

Internet connection speed is no longer syncing at 80 Mbps and this time the connection has only lasted for around 13 days. Perhaps the 30 days stability previously was simply a coincidence!

System Up Time 00h57m13s


Line 1
Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 78159 19999
Maximum Rate [Kbps] 76862 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 6.50 15.40
Attenuation [dB] 18.10 0.00
Power [dBm] 12.80 7.60


I understand that there's a huge amount of storm right now and maybe due to Corona Virus there may be system congestion in the network with too many internet users.

It seems like my long term internet disconnection problems will never be fully resolved until indeed FTTP comes. After 10+ years of waiting on EO Line on ADSL, FTTC Cabinet arrival in October 2019 has not really improved internet connection stability.

Now I don't know what to blame here, the router or the noise margins. But once again I don't understand why the System Uptime should reset by itself even if it is related to noise margins.

You can imagine how if a connection can't be stable under a 6dB profile, God knows how many times the internet would drop out if the SNR was set at 3dB.

No wonder on ADSL I needed 9dB noise margin profile for connection to be stable. Unfortunately with FTTC it seems you can't have 9dB SNR. Hence my internet connection stability paradoxically ends up worse than ADSL.

I have strong intuitions, my worry is not without any base.. I was highly skeptical whether FTTC was really going to solve the problem when I asked previously in October 2019 when my cabinet went live. Experiences with FTTC obviously differ from person to person.

Network congestion has no impact on sync speed.

However, as more and more people take up FTTC, crosstalk does become an increasing problem, reducing speeds for everyone.

Ageing copper, detritus in joints, water and temperature can all have impact too, and vary throughout the year.

I do note that you do show a "system up time" of 00h57m13s, and this suggests that it's your router which has rebooted, not just the connection resyncing. Buying a better router may improve things.

When you say stability what do you mean? A router rebooting every 14 days isn�t an issue to worry about. Stability means your connection is up and down all the time. Yes, a better router might not need rebooting as often, but why do you care if it does if all what happens is ever so often you lose a couple of megs.

I really don�t get why people moan about a 3% reduction in speed, what difference will it make?

+1

In reply to a post by gary333:

When you say stability what do you mean? A router rebooting every 14 days isn�t an issue to worry about. Stability means your connection is up and down all the time. Yes, a better router might not need rebooting as often, but why do you care if it does if all what happens is ever so often you lose a couple of megs.

I really don�t get why people moan about a 3% reduction in speed, what difference will it make?

When I mean by stability, is the connection to not drop out randomly and at unexpected times. I want to see my connection up time 50+ days that's when I call it reliable!

On this occasion the router reboot happened after 12 days and 22 hours. If it had happened exactly on the 14th day or the 30th day then I may understand that it is programming.

I'm concerned that the router System Uptime was also affected. This happened with the old Plusnet router which is also Sagemcom brand and now it is happening with TalkTalk.

Ok, there's an interesting change I have just spotted. In the DSL checker it now shows WBC SOGEA Availability Date as Available and previously just a few days ago it was showing as -- not available. This is something new after 5 months. If an engineer worked on the cabinet, fair enough.

But I don't want this trend of drop-outs continuing. I'm fine with a slightly lowered speed. As I said I had 12 Mbps on ADSL and used to sync 56 days with Sky with 9dB SNR and the router never rebooted, it was on for 300+ days system up time.

But since around November 2019 shortly after the cabinet upgrade I have been noticing router system up time is no longer stable. Now I am in a dilemma whether the router is really faulty or something faulty in the cabinet or my electric extension lead becoming flaky.

Noise margin has now jumped to 6.80dB at 78.2 Mbps sync. Will have to observe again. I would be happy to buy a better quality router but I'm afraid that if it does not sort the issue then I will waste my money.

My Sky Netgear router never let me down, but I can't use it with TalkTalk for test purpose because it is locked to Sky.
I admit that there is also some construction engineering works done in my building for the cladding panel replacement they are going up and down with the external construction lift and using drill machine, not sure if these engineers have contributed to some noise on the line. I'm only speculating at this stage.

Your router rebooting is nothing to do with the line. It's just rubbish firmware in a cheap consumer router - most likely a memory leak or somesuch.

If you're happy to buy a top-end router or router + modem combination, then it won't reboot.

This is from my Mikrotik hEX PoE:

[admin@gw1]> /system resource print
uptime: 3w5d20h38m45s
version: 6.46.3 (stable)
build-time: Jan/28/2020 10:46:05

That's from when I last did a firmware update. It connects to both FTTP and FTTC (the latter via Draytek Vigor 130 modem)

The uptime on the modem:

> show status
System Uptime:2834:10:1

That's about 4 months, and it's from when I was having problems with my old UPS and swapped it for a new one.

Note: some people on this forum have said the chipset in the Draytek (Lantiq??) syncs at a lower speed than a Broadcom one. YMMV.

Nothing in the cabinet can have any impact on the system uptime of your modem/router.

It can only be your modem/router.

SOGEA being available makes no difference and no work was carried out to make this available.
SOGEA is now available nationwide. I believe it officially launched on March 1st but has showed as available to most lines for months now.
You probably just didn't notice it until now.

I want to see my connection up time 50+ days that's when I call it reliable!

You don't even get that kind of guaranteed uptime on leased lines.

It's entirely down to your ISP provided modem crashing/rebooting itself. They are cheap mass produced hardware not designed to provide anything like the uptime/stability you want.

Many thanks. The confusion I have with the TalkTalk WiFi Hub is that I am unable to determine if loss of connectivity has an impact on the system uptime or whether it is a bug with the router in itself or overheating issue. Or some other defect with my power extension lead.

I am beginning to think that Sagemcom branded routers are of poor quality. Old Tiscali Sagemcom modem in 2005 used to cause me this problem and a new Netgear router solved it.

The Sagemcom Plusnet ADSL router had the problem with the first router and then the second router replacement fixed it for a number of months before that was starting to reboot by itself.

This time it has happened twice with the TalkTalk WiFi router despite the fact that I have not witnessed low or unstable noise margins. The internet reconnected before I was able to find out if it had really rebooted by itself.

This is the warning log at the time of disconnection.
20.03.2020 12:29:56 Warning DHCPC
The WAN DHCP client process has successfully been terminated on Vlan 36

I don't know what that means.
But anyway, my router is now syncing at a slightly higher noise margin but at 78.2 Mbps.
Noise Margin [dB] 6.80 and 15.50

I will have to keep an eye on it again and see when next time the connection drops out whether the system uptime will once again reset.

TalkTalk responded on their forums telling me that they did a line test and couldn't find any faults.

The Sky hub router that I had previously for the entire 18 month contract never caused system uptime to reset. Only happened on a couple of occasions when there was a power cut. And I had 50+ days connection uptime on a few occasions and that's ADSL.

With FTTC I expect similar reliability unless the router is indeed causing the problem. Now my power extension lead that I have is over 10 years old, I will try and look into replacing that as well, not sure if this has gone flaky with time and whether it has developed a slight fault.

I'm not too worried about normal connection drop outs, but if the router system uptime is resetting at random days then that is what's making me concerned. If it was exactly 14 days or 30 days then I will have ignored this as an issue.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

The Sky hub router that I had previously for the entire 18 month contract never caused system uptime to reset.

Is that not sufficient evidence to you that cheap ISPs are providing cheap rubbish routers?

If they stay up for 2-4 weeks at a time, that's good enough for most people. Most people won't notice a 30 second outage once per month. Most people don't even know how to login to their router to check the uptime.

An update regarding this, after nearly a month of being connected at 79999/20000 (there was a local power cut) my HG612 randomly resync'd at midnight one night last week.

24 hours later, last Thursday, the HG612 resync'd at 2am and the SNR was 4.9db so it's obviously dropped it down.

I've had nothing since, I was at 1080 errors at 28 hours DSL uptime.

Got a feeling the HG612 is going to pack up soon. It's started to make a whining noise.

Is there a way of finding out on a HG612 what is causing DSL resyncs?

Had one at 2am and then one at 7:10am this morning.

SNR is still 5db.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

The Sky hub router that I had previously for the entire 18 month contract never caused system uptime to reset.

Is that not sufficient evidence to you that cheap ISPs are providing cheap rubbish routers?

If they stay up for 2-4 weeks at a time, that's good enough for most people. Most people won't notice a 30 second outage once per month. Most people don't even know how to login to their router to check the uptime.

I guess you are right! I can confirm that the TalkTalk Wifi Hub router does reboot every 30 days! It has happened once again today after the 30th day mark.

Now of-course I was sleeping, due to broken sleeping pattern so I wasn't aware. However, a quick login to my router settings has shown that the router up-time is now 7 hours and 21 minutes.

This coincides with the 1:32pm reboot because that is the time when my router up-time became exactly 30 days today and it was like that last time as well!

I checked the Firmware version, it is still on TalkTalk Wi-Fi Hub version SG4K10002808t.

There are no warning logs or error messages in the Maintenance Logs tab. It is my bad that I didn't take the reviewers seriously! One YouTuber did mention that the TalkTalk router does cause reboot when installing firmware update, but no one specified about the 30 day mark.

Given the fact that everything is on lock down due to coronavirus, this time the disconnection is definitely not related to noise margin interference, rein or power cut as there was no powercut and the SNR has been stable. Although I do admit that there been a drop in noise margin coming from 6.70dB to now 4.10dB. But it has been that way for around 14 days I think due to crosstalk, but the reboot is not related to noise margin this time!

It kinda sucks that the router is programmed like that, because I really wanted to know what the maximum up-time can be achieved for comparisons sake. But the only way to solve this is to buy an aftermarket router. I will avoid TalkTalk as an ISP in future and that's my advice to anyone else looking to switch to them unless they have their own router!

that's my advice to anyone else looking to switch to them unless they have their own router!

Care to explain why Joe Public would in any way be concerned about their router rebooting every 30 days? How is this likely to impact them, all the more so if it happens at 1 a.m? For example you didn't realised it had rebooted until you checked the up time. Those that consider this to be important to them would doubtless already be using their own router.

In reply to a post by MCM:

that's my advice to anyone else looking to switch to them unless they have their own router!

Care to explain why Joe Public would in any way be concerned about their router rebooting every 30 days? How is this likely to impact them, all the more so if it happens at 1 a.m? For example you didn't realised it had rebooted until you checked the up time. Those that consider this to be important to them would doubtless already be using their own router.

Depends on the users need of-course. If you are a multiplayer online gamer where stats are important. Like for example if you are playing FIFA online and you are unfortunate to fall on the 30th day reboot point then you'll get a loss!

An avid or professional chess player for example who plays online Blitz or Bullet games may be affected.

Now I play on lichess.org server where I've logged over 10 thousand games and have zero disconnections in my stats. Fortunately for me and many players out there, the game server gives you 120 seconds (2 minutes) time to return back to resume your online game, so that way even if the internet did disconnect or reboot, it will not affect the player.

But chess.com on the other hand is only 30 seconds limit after a drop-out to resume your game. It would be very frustrating to lose a game and rating points where you are winning due to a disconnection. Free Internet Chess Server (FICS) will get you instant loss if you disconnect.

In the case of TalkTalk router, it does not reboot at 1am. However, there is one possible solution that I may have, If the TalkTalk router is connected for example at some unimportant time of day like 6am then it will be programmed to reboot at 6am on the 30th day. In my case when TalkTalk went live I connected the router at approximately 1:30pm, hence why the router is rebooting at around that time every 30 days.
----
I'm not saying that it will affect me, because at the end of the day, I can simply make sure to avoid playing any ranked online game at that moment before the 30th day mark. Most people who only use Facebook, YouTube and read online newspapers won't feel affected.

My point was, if you were to measure reliability on an ISP performance, if the router reboots every 30 days, it prevents you from being able to determine what the maximum possible up-time was achieved. That way next time when you switch ISP you will not know which ISP provided the longest up-time hence you won't know which ISP was/is more reliable!

if the router reboots every 30 days, it prevents you from being able to determine what the maximum possible up-time was achieved.

Nothing you have said is of relevance to Joe Public but rather your own personal perceptions of what you would like to see in which case why did you go with TalkTalk as your ISP.

In reply to a post by MCM:

if the router reboots every 30 days, it prevents you from being able to determine what the maximum possible up-time was achieved.

Nothing you have said is of relevance to Joe Public but rather your own personal perceptions of what you would like to see in which case why did you go with TalkTalk as your ISP.

I didn't know the TalkTalk router was rebooting every 30 days! I watched quite a few youtube videos where the reviewers stated that the router did reboot for firmware update automatically without users consent and advised to get your own router. But I thought, fair enough for firmware updates I won't mind as these are very rare.

I wasn't aware of the 30 day reboot, though. In fact if you were to google search this, I am the only user who mentioned this on the TalkTalk forums. The TalkTalk Community Staff members are deliberately pretending that they are unaware of it and would like to investigate the issue. Probably because they know that if someone reads my thread over there, it might put them off from signing up.

Anyway, I'm only paying £21.95 a month for the top 80/20 Mbps package, but it is on a 24 month contract. I won't complain too much. But initially when I saw the router reboot after 30 days I thought it was a faulty router or power surge lead. But now at least I know the router is not faulty.

I bought a new surge protection extension lead around 3 weeks ago which I was thinking to connect to the router. But I guess now I know this would probably be unneccessary, as my power equipment are not faulty either.

Routers take around 1-2 minutes to re-boot (well the el cheapo's the ISP give us). If that is too much time out of your life per month then quite frankly it's tough, you need to accept it and move on. It is absolutely acceptable downtime. If you are so bothered about it effecting your quality of life, then simply restart the bloomin' thing in the middle of the night and then it'll likely restart at this point in the future.

You are likely the only person who has noticed this, because it's in effect un-noticable unless you spend most of your life looking at the router statistics page. I noticed yesterday my Now TV WAN connection reset at around 28 days ish. It did this whilst I was watching Hoovies Garage on YouTube at 15:00. Shock Horror, the video stopped for a whole minute. The kids came down with their tablets and said the internet had stopped. Guess what, no soon as they had said this it came back on, and life continued.

Get over it. No one EVER apart from you would think that a 30 day restart of a router would be in anyway faulty. You are making a mountain out of a molehill. These routers restart, or worse than that some really bad ones don't and you are left with no WiFi and have to do the reset yourself.

Well said Gary ......

Your posts suggest that you have problems other than your router rebooting.

If you re-boot the router manually. does it set the 30-day clock running from zero again? If so you just need to keep your eye on the calendar and do a manual re-boot at a time of your choosing before the 30-day timeout happens.

Or spend some money to get a better router than the junk that ISPs provide for free.

BT's Smart Hub reboots every 14 days - well at least mine did. Incredibly annoying if you're up online gaming.

If you want a stable connection as possible, either buy a VDSL modem and separate router or an all in one - from the likes of TP-Link, Netgear, ASUS.

I've been with TalkTalk and now EE with my own kit and the service has been absolutely rock solid.

Major benefit is you can also make changes to your home network without impacting the VDSL side, which we all know can cause issues.

Edited by wolvesmad (Mon 20-Apr-20 20:04:33)

In reply to a post by gary333:

Routers take around 1-2 minutes to re-boot (well the el cheapo's the ISP give us). If that is too much time out of your life per month then quite frankly it's tough, you need to accept it and move on. It is absolutely acceptable downtime. If you are so bothered about it effecting your quality of life, then simply restart the bloomin' thing in the middle of the night and then it'll likely restart at this point in the future.

You are likely the only person who has noticed this, because it's in effect un-noticable unless you spend most of your life looking at the router statistics page. I noticed yesterday my Now TV WAN connection reset at around 28 days ish. It did this whilst I was watching Hoovies Garage on YouTube at 15:00. Shock Horror, the video stopped for a whole minute. The kids came down with their tablets and said the internet had stopped. Guess what, no soon as they had said this it came back on, and life continued.

Get over it. No one EVER apart from you would think that a 30 day restart of a router would be in anyway faulty. You are making a mountain out of a molehill. These routers restart, or worse than that some really bad ones don't and you are left with no WiFi and have to do the reset yourself.

It's fine if the router does reboot every 30 days, I don't have problems with that as long as it was clearly stated as part of the contract agreement using their TalkTalk router.

I am the only person who probably noticed this 30 day connection reboot for TalkTalk. But like wolvesmad mentions, the SmartHub does it every 14 days, which is even worse. Some people also spotted 30 days on the BT SmartHub router. The question is why some BT HomeHub routers reboot 14 days and others using exact same model have them reboot every 30 days.

The reason why I noticed and most do not, is because I kept a close eye every day on the connection to see how much up-time can be achieved. My problem with ADSL used to be horrendous. 5-6 times drop-outs per day (sometimes as much as 20 times) until finally I had Sky in 2017 set my noise margins to 9dB and it was stable ever since.

And then when I switched to Plusnet ADSL once again I had to contact the ISP to cap at 9dB or it was going to drop out again as I was on a long Exchange Only Line until October 2019 when I finally got upgraded to a new cabinet.

Of-course the 30 day reboot on FTTC right now is nothing compared to the nightmare experience I had with ADSL on EO Line. At least on FTTC my connection no longer drops out with a 4 or 6dB noise margin profile.

This is great news as FTTC has definitely improved the reliability of the connection since there is 1000 meters reduction of copper. I am now on FTTC 300 meter from cabinet compared to 1300 meter ADSL EO Line, big difference!

Now it was natural for me to concentrate on the uptime because I wanted to see how much more reliable my connection will be with FTTC compared to my old unreliable ADSL.

Most people do not have this particularly bad line that I used to have with ADSL so they naturally will not check their router stats. Now if I hadn't carefully observed that this 30 day reboot occurred at a particular time like 1:32pm for example most people in my position will think it was a fault that caused the reboot. That's what I feared, I'm glad to know the router isn't faulty as repeated 30 day tests confirm it is simply programmed!

Frankly speaking, if you didn't pay attention yourself, how did you know you had a connection up-time of 28 days?

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

BT's Smart Hub reboots every 14 days - well at least mine did. Incredibly annoying if you're up online gaming.

If you want a stable connection as possible, either buy a VDSL modem and separate router or an all in one - from the likes of TP-Link, Netgear, ASUS.

I've been with TalkTalk and now EE with my own kit and the service has been absolutely rock solid.

Major benefit is you can also make changes to your home network without impacting the VDSL side, which we all know can cause issues.

Yeah 14 days is definitely much worse, I've heard of it from other users too! I have never been with BT and I guess if the 14 day policy still exists in their latest routers in future, it will be best to avoid BT unless we use our own router.

Buying my own router will definitely resolve this issue. But it is a little bit unfair that there is no router setting option to configure for removing the 30 day reboot. I just question the rationality whether it is worth spending another £100 or so on a new router just to fix this.

I hope TalkTalk will have a look into fixing this in future with a new firmware update because other than that, I have no other complaints so far.

I'll monitor again to see if the connection will be stable for another 30 days. And I'll probably consider rebooting the router somewhere between 5-6am that would be the best time. At least it won't affect me once I resume employment again after the corona lock down and get back to my correct sleeping pattern. Then after that it will not be a problem and at least I will be aware of the time in case I am in a ranked online game.

I don't have problems with that as long as it was clearly stated as part of the contract agreement using their TalkTalk router.

Total madness on your part. Your latest post together with most of you others show you have some major problems. Get them those sorted out if possible before worrying about whether your router reboots.

In reply to a post by MCM:

I don't have problems with that as long as it was clearly stated as part of the contract agreement using their TalkTalk router.

Total madness on your part. Your latest post together with most of you others show you have some major problems. Get them those sorted out if possible before worrying about whether your router reboots.

Yes, I know what you want to accuse me of, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)!
Having had a terrible connection for over a decade on ADSL where on default 3-6dB noise margins my connection wouldn't stand for 2 days connection-up time without dropping out on the max connection speeds!

This problem used to last for years without remedy. Even BT Openreach could not detect a fault. Engineer said he couldn't find any line faults, despite noise margins constantly going to zero on ADSL. I could get 18Mbps on ADSL with 3dB profile but constant drops.

Every time when switching to new ISP I had to contact the ISP to manually cap SNR to 9dB and then speeds at 12Mbps would be stable, it was not a pleasant experience. You will not know what I went through, so it is easy to accuse me of having issues.

When finally FTTC came and an Openreach engineer came to install the VDSL Faceplate in February this year he admitted that there were many complaints in my area from disconnections reassuring me that the problem is finally solved with a shorted copper line to the cabinet. I find this quite frankly unaccepted. They could've admitted that there was a fault back then!

Naturally I was going to be worried even after getting FTTC because I wasn't too sure how stable my connection was going to be under a 3 or 6dB noise margin profile despite being reassured that with a reduced copper line length this will be resolved as there will be less noise on the line.
Now of-course I was going to be worried when after 30 days the connection rebooted. Because I was in a dilemma whether the problem yet again existed, only to find out that this time the disconnection is related to a reboot!

I had an old thread here around 10 years ago on these forums explaining how frustrating my disconnection problems were and how I could solve it. Everyone was saying "It's your line." From disconnection with neighbours of my block it was not my line problem only, everyone was experiencing constant connection drop-outs.

And yes, don't be surprised as to why I gained an obsession to check my router stats every day. If I didn't have this bad connection on ADSL in the first place all these years, I wouldn't have been so frequently checking my connection up-time. I should've had this FTTC service a decade ago, not now! Would've saved me a lot of headache and frustration.

You need to get over this 30 day nonsense. It's happening, you cannot stop it, and no, no consumer based company will ever tell you about as it's not a fault.

You are living in cuckoo land with this obsession of no disconnects, and I can demonstrate this with numbers. Having the router restart and taking say 1:45 seconds per month to comeback to life is the equivalent of 99.99% uptime! As far as I am concerned this is a superb up time for something you are only paying £20 per month.

Spending 1 hour on to customer services costs them around £15 (average outsourcing cost for this industry for UK staff) so I am pretty sure they don't want people wasting their time with nonsense of this nature and thus if it was an issue to more than a sample of 1 in a million they would document it.

No, not just OCD but a seeming total lack of knowledge or understanding of what to expect from a consumer product costing next to nothing. Ask yourself if you wanted perfection why did you choose to go with a bottom of the pile consumer ISP that provides cheep and cheerful connections for the vast majority of its customers. If you want perfection stop obsessing and stick your hands in your pockets and pay for a lease line connection and then seek out an ISP to which to connect.

You expect far too much from what is essentially a budget residential ISP.
A 2 minute reboot once every 30 days is exceptionally good uptime.

I find 1 result on Google for any Talktalk Hub rebooting every 30 days and it's you on the Talktalk forums.
For a device that's coming on 2 years old I would have thought it would have been mentioned before now.

I read on ISPreview that an OR engineer admitted that they are using nefarious covert techniques to restrict bandwidth to accommodate others..rather than upgrade the equipment...

from the horses mouth

I only wished i could get Virgin, im paying £33 for 63Mb with Plusnet - i can get 200Mb for extra £3

from the horses mouth

But with not even a link ...... why its almost as if it isn’t true.

Pity you haven't provided any evidence to support your post. Smells to me like much of the misinformation and lies that are being posted at this time. Have your speeds dropped, are streams buffering? If not get on and enjoy what you have.

I have worked in IT for many years and we have a number of frontline support staff who tell users similar sorts of things - despite the fact that they are untrue - the frontline support staff decide themselves what is causing issues with no detailed knowledge of what is actually happening in the servers, networks, etc at the core. I would always treat these sorts of comments with a very large pinch of salt.

EDIT : Spelling mistake that messed with the meaning

Edited by ian72 (Thu 23-Apr-20 14:53:22)

In general, I've found Openreach engineers on the ground are very friendly and helpful but not always knowledgeable outside their narrow training.

A few years ago, I had a guy come to my property when my FTTC had dropped from ~30M to ~20M. He came and plugged in his tester, checked wiring to the cabinet, swapped faceplate etc (and eventually I got my 30M back). However he insisted that with me being 900m from the cabinet, I ought to be getting the maximum 80Mbps.

He had to drop back later with the correct faceplate, so I showed him a graph of expected VDSL speed versus distance.

I guess his expectations were based on the fall-off of characteristics of ADSL - although where I am, I don't think I'd get the full 24M on ADSL either.

I am very lucky man indeed. My FTTC always stay as 79999k/19999k sync rate even the line max rate has drop to 83137k (spring/summer time) but around 93200k (autumn/winter season) since 2014 but I have no idea if my cabinet is 100% capacity full?

My latest stats as of now:

Max: Upstream rate = 24118 Kbps, Downstream rate = 83137 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.5 14.7
Attn(dB): 11.5 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 -0.4

VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.5 13.1 20.2 N/A N/A 6.9 15.7 25.9
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.5 12.6 19.6 N/A N/A 8.9 15.5 25.9
SNR Margin(dB): 14.9 14.7 14.7 N/A N/A 6.6 6.3 6.6
TX Power(dBm): -15.2 -30.0 -0.7 N/A N/A 8.0 7.9 7.0

Edited by adslmax (Thu 23-Apr-20 22:57:08)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I am very lucky man indeed. My FTTC always stay as 79999k/19999k sync rate even the line max rate has drop to 83137k (spring/summer time) but around 93200k (autumn/winter season) since 2014 but I have no idea if my cabinet is 100% capacity full?

When there are no free ports, this shows up as "Wait list" when you do an address check on the wholesale checker (but not a phone number check). At least, that's what I saw for my cabinet a year or so back until they put an expansion pod on it.

@adslmax: Indeed you are very lucky. Your line attenuation is very low at only 11.5dB!

This suggests that you have a very short line, probably less than 50 meters to your street cabinet! My line attenuation is 17.9dB at around 320 meters to the nearest cabinet.

I'm guessing in your case even if there is a fairly high capacity on your cabinet, because you are so close to it, crosstalk has a smaller impact on your speeds.

My upstream noise margin is slightly higher than yours at 15.10dB. My downstream was sitting between 6.0-6.8dB but in recent few weeks it has dropped to 4.10dB despite no impact on the connection, this may well coincide with the corona virus period where the SNR may have slightly been impacted due to overload of customers using the internet more as they are out of work. This wasn't the case prior to the corona virus lock down but as long as the connection is stable that's all that matters.

As for crosstalk, I believe it depends really whether you live in an individual house or residential block! I have a suspicion that crosstalk has a greater impact on high rise residential buildings where the cabinet is overstuffed with too many customers taking FTTC particularly as with my case we don't have Virgin Media here or another altnet provider.

But some other council homes that are also connected with the same cabinet are on the verge of getting Hyperoptic. If you have other people having altnet providers they may put less pressure on the FTTC cabinet, thus giving you a better connection!

My connection speeds and stats in general also remain the same, as the 30 day reboot in my case does not impact connection speed as DLM does not interpret the connection drop as line noise or interference related, it is simply router programming with TalkTalk. At least I know I won't have that issue in future with a different router.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

@adslmax: Indeed you are very lucky. Your line attenuation is very low at only 11.5dB!

This suggests that you have a very short line, probably less than 50 meters to your street cabinet! My line attenuation is 17.9dB at around 320 meters to the nearest cabinet.

I wish it was less than 50 meters! Actually my line is approx 253 meters or 277 yards from my nearest cabinet. No chance of less than 50 meters because if it was then my BTw checker estimated for G.fast would be 330/50 easily but not the case as it was estimated at 220/32

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 67.2 20 19 62 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 65.8 20 19 59.7 Available Available --
G.fast Range A (Clean) 220.8 166.9 32.1 13.8 144.6 Available Available --
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 177.9 122.2 21.7 10.4 109.2 Available Available --

Edited by adslmax (Fri 24-Apr-20 13:03:01)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

When there are no free ports, this shows up as "Wait list" when you do an address check on the wholesale checker (but not a phone number check). At least, that's what I saw for my cabinet a year or so back until they put an expansion pod on it.

Yeah my cabinet has been on the waiting lists five times before become available but my fibre cabinet is not yet on expansion pod on it.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

@adslmax: Indeed you are very lucky. Your line attenuation is very low at only 11.5dB!

This suggests that you have a very short line, probably less than 50 meters to your street cabinet! My line attenuation is 17.9dB at around 320 meters to the nearest cabinet.

I wish it was less than 50 meters! Actually my line is approx 253 meters or 277 yards from my nearest cabinet. No chance of less than 50 meters because if it was then my BTw checker estimated for G.fast would be 330/50 easily but not the case as it was estimated at 220/32

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 67.2 20 19 62 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 65.8 20 19 59.7 Available Available --
G.fast Range A (Clean) 220.8 166.9 32.1 13.8 144.6 Available Available --
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 177.9 122.2 21.7 10.4 109.2 Available Available --

This is interesting because my line attenuation in router stats is 17.9dB
Yet these are my results for my post code Bishopsgate Cabinet 20

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 68.2 20 19 62.1 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 64.8 20 19 56.6 Available Available

My speed estimates are actually pretty much the same as yours, but you have 11.5dB line attenuation and I have 17.9dB, this is a massive difference for speed stats that are pretty much identical! I don't understand those differences. I did a google search and another user has 11dB line attenuation similar to yours and he says it is 30 meters to his cabinet which is why I assumed yours is that much as well.

At least one measurement seems accurate from our comparison is that my cabinet is roughly 300 meters and yours is 253 meters and that is why our speed estimates for FTTC are pretty much identical.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I did a google search and another user has 11dB line attenuation similar to yours and he says it is 30 meters to his cabinet which is why I assumed yours is that much as well.

At least one measurement seems accurate from our comparison is that my cabinet is roughly 300 meters and yours is 253 meters and that is why our speed estimates for FTTC are pretty much identical.

Do u have any source link to that person who has 11dB line attenuation. Last time I talk to BT Openreach via echat they say my line length to the cabinet are 135m away but OPenreach engineer who install my FTTC in 2014 say my line distance to the street cabinet are 250m away. Plusnet GEA test say my line length are 243.6m.

Two next doors of mine in a terraced house got 330/50 for G.fast, next door left of mine got 237/35 for G.fast and other next door right to mine got 237/35 for G.fast.

bkehoe compared to adslmax for VDSL2 to GFAST below:

VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 3.3 12.3 19.1 N/A N/A 7.1 15.2 24.5
Signal Attenuation(dB): 3.3 11.6 18.2 N/A N/A 7.9 15.1 24.5
SNR Margin(dB): 15.4 15.1 15.0 N/A N/A 6.6 6.6 6.8
TX Power(dBm):-15.6 -31.1 -1.5 N/A N/A 9.3 7.8 7.0

VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.5 13.0 20.0 N/A N/A 6.8 15.5 25.8
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.5 12.1 19.0 N/A N/A 8.8 15.4 25.7
SNR Margin(dB): 16.8 15.2 15.2 N/A N/A 8.3 8.2 8.2
TX Power(dBm):-15.1 -30.2 -0.7 N/A N/A 8.1 7.9 7.0

Data rate: 159.443 Mbps / 29.399 Mbps (160/30 G.fast)
Maximum data rate: 397.693 Mbps / 74.580 Mbps (330/50 G.fast)
Noise margin: 19.6 / 20.9
Line attenuation: 26.7 / 0.0
Signal attenuation: 26.7 / 0.0

reO for VDSL2 to GFAST below:

VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 3.7 9.6 13.8 N/A N/A 5.5 11.4 17.7
Signal Attenuation(dB): 3.7 9.1 12.9 N/A N/A 6.5 11.3 17.7
SNR Margin(dB): 15.9 15.1 15.6 N/A N/A 6.4 6.5 6.6
TX Power(dBm):-21.0 -33.7 -6.7 N/A N/A 10.0 7.7 7.0

xDSL Port Details: Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 330.614 Mbps 50.345 Mbps (330/50 G.fast)
Actual Net Data Rate: 329.907 Mbps 50.016 Mbps (330/50 G.fast)
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 8.2 dB 9.0 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 4.1 dBm
Receive Power: 3.0 dBm 4.7 dBm
Actual INP: 550.0 symbols 535.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate: 406.832 Mbps 67.552 Mbps

Edited by adslmax (Fri 24-Apr-20 18:18:30)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Plusnet GEA test say my line length are 243.6m.

Do you have an exchange nearby? Could that be the distance to the exchange rather than the cabinet?

You must be joking? My property to the nearer telephone exchange in High Street, Madeley - Cuckoo Oak Exchange is approx 1 mile away (1,609m away)

Actually it is my mistake, I wasn't paying enough attention. https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&top...
This is from New Zealand, so the comparison won't be relevant.

You can test your line length by locating your cabinet on google maps and then selecting your property after that click on the walk button then press details.

So for example my Bishopsgate cabinet 20 is located in 46 Frostic Walk, Shadwell, London E1 5LT and to my home which is around 0.2 miles. But actually I did some other measurements by measuring it straight to one other restaurant bar next to my building which adds to 197 meters. And from there to rest of my residential block is another 53 and add some more meters up to my flat.

I don't want to give my full details here of my property, for privacy and security. But this is how I measured my line length. 196.8 meters from cabinet to the restaurant direct straight line route+53 meters to entrance of my block+approximately another 40 or so meters up my building.
196.8+53+40=289.8 meters. Now my measurement is probably not 100% accurate. Direct route on google maps from cabinet shows as 0.2 miles roughly 321 meters.

If these measurements are true then my line length is between 290-321 meters to cabinet.

But it all depends whether the blue dotted lines actually follows the straightest direct path. If the line is artificially extended then this can add up several more meters of copper which I will assume will be the case. There will be further cabling inside the building which will definitely extend it to a greater than 290 meter length, maybe another 10 meters and a few more meters if we add the line to our master telephone socket. Depending on what floor of the building you live on.

If you live in a house or low rise building then the measurement via google maps will be more accurate as you won't have to do further calculations of internal copper wiring. When I spoke to one of the BT Openreach engineers who came to my flat to install the VDSL Faceplate he showed his device and said 70Mbps to 83Mbps is what his device reading is showing for my flat. He said 500 meters to cab, but I said google maps is showing 321 meters, he said "maybe you are right". So I take it that, it's not going to be 500 meters as that's way too long and I wouldn't be syncing at 80Mbps with that kind of line length that would be impossible.

My google map say distance walking from my property to the fibre cabinet 486 ft (3 minutes walk) around 148m away (add another 100m because of cable route from the back to the cabinet) where two next doors is at the front cable route to the cabinet so they getting less than 150m for full 330/50 on G.fast while next doors on mine get another 100m addition to the cabinet to get G.fast 220-230/30-35. So, the GEA test are much spot on for 243m away.

Edited by adslmax (Fri 24-Apr-20 20:14:58)

Then this measurement is more or a less accurate.

The fact that you are getting the top sync speeds last 6 years suggests that your cabinet should be less than 250 meters. You also have 6.5dB SNR which shows there is very little crosstalk.

Generally 3dB SNR is for people who either have very long copper length or crosstalk where speeds are being overstretched to their limits.

You don't appear to be suffering from neither crosstalk or a very long line.

My google map shows around 4 minutes walk to cabinet. My cabinet only went live 6 months ago. But I have FTTC only last 2 months. Previously I had EO Line and my Exchange is 1300 meters. But as we all know BT Exchange length is irrelevant when it comes to FTTC as Fibre travels from exchange to cabinet.

I'm not too concerned about the accuracy of the line length, as long as we are getting a solid and reliable connection that is all that matters.

Yeah, I am not too fussy as I am happy with 80/20 for time being. Not bother with G.fast. Need a lower budget FTTC for now. paying monthly £16.25 for 80/20 fibre with line only. Can't complaint.

Edited by adslmax (Fri 24-Apr-20 22:55:57)

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Then this measurement is more or a less accurate.

The fact that you are getting the top sync speeds last 6 years suggests that your cabinet should be less than 250 meters. You also have 6.5dB SNR which shows there is very little crosstalk.

How does it suggest that? That's absolute nonsense I'm sorry.
Where did you pick the arbitrary 250m figure from?

6.5dB doesn't suggest anything about crosstalk, at all.
I have a line length of just over 1km and with over 600 active connections on my cabinet.
It's a safe bet my line suffers from crosstalk.
It connects at 6.3dB.
That simply means it's connecting as high as it can with no spare SNRM.

HAVING A 6dB SNRM simply means the line is connecting near the target SNRM, which means it's near the maximum the line can handle with a 6dB target.

Generally 3dB SNR is for people who either have very long copper length or crosstalk where speeds are being overstretched to their limits.

No it's not.
3, 4 and 5dB is for any line that doesn't achieve full sync with a 6dB SNRM.
It's nothing to do with line length as such.

You can have a 300m line that gets 80Mb sync and you can get a 300m line that gets 60Mb.
Crosstalk is extremely variable and no 2 lines of the same length will perform the same.

Different modems report attenuation in different ways. You can't just read an attenuation and pick a distance to the cabinet from that.
My attenuation has varied between 19dB and 22dB over the years using various different modems.

You throw far too many generalisations about.
You compare FTTC to ADSL too often. Forget about ADSL.

Your Google maps line length calculation doesn't work either.
Type line is longer than 290-320m, quite a bit longer.
The attenuation suggests nearly double that length.

Your assuming your line goes the shortest route, most lines don't.
It may go the other direction around the block, it may go 50m past your property and back down the other side of the street.
There are many quirks and oddities in how the OpenReach network is laid out.
The engineer who visited your property to activate FTTC didn't read his line length figure from some random sheet of paper.
He connected specialised telecoms equipment that cost a pretty penny. They are very accurate.
If he said 500m then it will be around that.

So, it likely my 243m are spot on anyway. Like Openreach engineer did stated my line are 250m away.

Thank you John, well said.

I'll have you know my Google Map to my cabinet was spot on.

However, as a result of the campaign we did in 2012, I did have the full wiring map for the entire estate so knew the exact route it took.

A Google Maps check via the most direct route would've put the line at 150m. It was actually 460m+ due to the most direct route being undeveloped land at the time the line was put in place.

@John: I picked 250m because these were the average measurements that adslmax mentioned from his post.

Higher noise margin tends to suggest lower line noise! If a 300 meter line cannot achieve higher than 60Mbps then there is something wrong either with wiring or it is using aluminum instead of copper or very high crosstalk.

Lower noise margin like 3dB for example may achieve higher sync speeds but has a higher risk of internet connection drops and sync errors unless there is absolutely no line noise! But there comes a point where you can't achieve 80/20 even with 3dB and that is when line is too long like in your case at 1km.

I compare with ADSL figures because ultimately FTTC is not pure Fibre, it is still very much dependent on copper length, quality, crosstalk, etc. Until we do not have FTTP in this country, FTTC will very much be reliant on our copper length and quality to our cabinet.

You have a noise margin of 6.3dB at 1km, but is it syncing at the top speeds? I think you previously said you were getting 40Mbps a few months ago when we had this discussion on line length.

If you are taking lower FTTC package I would expect that naturally you will have higher noise margins at your line length compared to a package where the router is attempting to sync at higher speeds.

Here's what happened when I had 3dB with ADSL, was getting 18Mbps but the internet connection would drop out after a few hours. At 6dB I was getting 15-17Mbps and it would still drop out every 2-3 days, but the noise margin continued to default at 6dB. This vicious cycle continued for years, I didn't even come on these forums as I knew it was pointless consulting for help. No BT Openreach engineer was able to solve this problem all these years!

Finally a manual cap of 9dB profile made my connection stable but it was syncing at only 11-12Mbps connection. And guess what? At certain times of the day (particularly mornings) it would drop down to as low as 4dB noise margin due to line noise, but after half an hour or so the noise margin recovered back to 9dB this is why my connection did not disconnect.

And yes there were noise problems that could never be resolved last 15+ years in this property. Actually I live last 30 years in this flat, but ADSL only around 17 years or so, before that we didn't have ADSL broadband except dial-up.

This was a real problem. Because as I describe a drop from 9dB to 4dB suggested that the problem was still there, except that it stopped causing my connection to drop out. At 6dB or 3dB default profile in my case was absolutely impossible to achieve a stable connection regardless on what kind of router I used! It was like that with Tiscali, Be Unlimited*, Sky, Plusnet last 17 years or so since having ADSL even when plugging via test socket.

Briefly I lived in one of our other leasehold property for 4 years during my college days between 2005-2009 and I was getting 7dB SNR and 16Mbps in these 4 years I never had problems with ADSL drop-outs at all. Returned back to our old property here and the disconnection problems returned yet again.

In certain situations like in my case, there was simply no cure. 1300 meter to BT exchange only line, but lots of noise and drops outs.

FTTC came as a lifesaver, too little, too late though. This is the first time I'm observing stable internet connection ever! Now even if theoretically my line wasn't at 320 meter to cabinet but let's just say it is 380 meter to cabinet due to extra wiring, still it's going to eliminate most of the copper line where most likely the line noise is stripped away due to shorter copper length.

I very much doubt I will be on 500 meter length, though. I don't think I would be syncing at 80/20 Mbps and the BT Wholesale checker would not show 68.2Mbps to 80Mbps on a 500 meter line, prove me wrong here!

My parents are nearly 500m away and his DSL Checker estimated for their line is between 79.2 and 55.8 and his line sync are 53.8 with a SNR of 4.7dB with line attenuation of 16.1dB

Exactly! As we can see the low estimate of 55.8Mbps is an accurate indicator that the line length in their case is around 500 meters with a max of 79.2Mbps.

Now I don't know why in my case the checker would show 68.2Mbps-80Mbps but my line attenuation shows 17.9dB. That's the only thing I don't quite understand.

The engineer showed his device 70Mbps minimum 83Mbps max for my line. Your parents getting 53.8 Mbps with line attenuation of 16.1dB. Line attenuation info in router stats may not always be accurate indicator of distance.

With a telephone number the checker will be more accurate. But I get this "There is no data available for this number. This could be either because it is not a BT line or it is a new BT number that has just been provided. Most new numbers will appear on the checker 24 hours after BT has installed the line "

This is ever since I changed my telephone number for the new FTTC service, because I used to get spam phone calls and voice mails in my old phone. So I decided to sign up with a new number with TalkTalk but the checker no longer works, so I can't test the latest result with phone.

With the old number only difference I saw 65.1Mbps for Impacted line vs 64.8Mbps with the address checker. The rest is the same 80Mbps max. Briefly the checker was slightly lower and then returned back to how it was before.

But my estimates definitely don't reflect that of a 500m line. Even if there were slight variations in the way the copper travels from the cabinet to the property, I can only see it add a further 50-60 meters extra from the 0.2 mile that google map shows. On google maps it gives you the option to drag the yellow character and drop to exactly the location of the street cabinet.

Here's a chart. https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2013/chart-...

Broadband users within about 300 m of the street cabinet can expect to achieve about the maximum possible downlink connection speed (currently 80 Mbps). Speeds fall to about 60 Mbps when 500 m away from the street cabinet

Now maybe this is a little bit pessimistic estimation. But I believe with 500 m 80Mbps is not attainable. You need to be at least 450 meter to cabinet for max speeds.

There is no way getting 80Mbps if the street cabinet are 500m away.

My parents line: SNR 3dB sync at 58Mbps, SNR 4dB sync at 56Mbps, SNR 5dB at 54Mbps and 6dB sync at 52Mbps with line attenuation of 16.1dB (report by PN Hub One) as BTw Checker say their handback would be 50Mbps for their line due to crosstalk. Estimated between 79.2 and 55.8.

Downstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 53.83 (higher)
Downstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 51.83 (lower)
Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 13.94 (higher)
Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 11.94 (lower)

PN GEA Test say their line length estimated are: 453.7m

Your many assumptions are wrong.

Your attenuation suggests your line is considerably longer than 300m.

The engineer connected an expensive, specialised piece of testing equipment and that suggested a line length of 500m.
That roughly matches your attenuation. From the attenuation alone I would have guessed 450-500m, perhaps even a little longer.
80Mb on a 500m long line is very achievable.

You also had a EO line which historically were made up of thicker gauge copper which has less signal lots over longer distances.
Your also 1 is the 1st on your cabinet so there will be very little crosstalk present.

That chart you have posted is VERY pessimistic.

Have a look at this chart showing a wide range of observed speeds at different distances.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/George_Ginis/pu...

Crosstalk is very very variable. The is no fixed rate over distance, every line is different.

I trust the engineers equipment and the reported attenuation from your modem much more than your guess from Google Maps and your incorrect assumptions on what sync speed is possible.

j0hn83

Do u ever work for Openreach? It's seem that u know everything about Fibre, DSL, DLM, Openreach network etc

@John: I have done several measurements and I know my area very well, I live here all my life. I've went to visit the cabinet and I can see it from the window of my flat.

The Bishopsgate Cabinet 20 is located in Old Montague Street and it travels in a straight line all the way to the end of Wentworth Street would be 482 meters to Petticoat Lane Market. But I live in Commercial Street which situates between Wentworth Street which is around 200 meters closer.

So unless the copper cable is zig-zagging artificially underground there is no way 300 meters worth of straight-lined copper can turn into 500 meters. And that I include the height of the residential building approximately another 20 meters which should total around 320 meters. The measurement is actually less than 300 meters if height wasn't included.

Your chart shows that with 500 meter line (non-vectored) does not achieve 80Mbps. It needs to be vectored. But with vectored line it shows close to 120Mbps, how is it that the router shows Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80543 if vectoring was really applied to the line?

If you think my line is 500 meter long, why is the minimum estimate 68.2Mbps for me and for the parents of adslmax being 55.8Mbps. This is a big difference, isn't it?

Also if my EO line was historically made out of thicker gauge of copper then I shouldn't have been having a ton of internet disconnections before on ADSL that required 9dB SNR cap.

It would be interesting to know from other people's experiences what speeds they get on average with a 500 meter cabinet.

That chart also shows 650 meter line vectored can achieve 80Mbps and with 800 meter line vectored 60Mbps, these seem too good to be true. I have yet to see anyone on the internet claiming to achieve 80Mbps with a 650 meter cabinet distance or 60Mbps with 800 meter cabinet distance. Yet at the same time I have seen BT Wholesale post code checkers show estimates sometimes with only 40Mbps max that aren't reflective of this chart.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Also if my EO line was historically made out of thicker gauge of copper then I shouldn't have been having a ton of internet disconnections before on ADSL that required 9dB SNR cap

Any broadband problem on your "EO" line between the exchange and the cabinet is eliminated on FTTC. It is filtered out before being merged with the VDSL2 at the DSLAM.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I know my area very well, I live here all my life.

You may have lived in the area all your life but do you know the telephone cabling infrastructure? I worked out of Bishopsgate and Wapping telephone exchanges for several years back in the day and I wouldn't be surprised if a few hundred metres of copper was added to your line length.

Can't say I miss working that patch as I always had to keep my eye's in the back of my head and had a few near scraps that could have cost me my life. Although I did enjoy a curry in Brick Lane and going to Truman's brewery.

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Apr-20 10:25:26)

In reply to a post by gary333:

You need to get over this 30 day nonsense. It's happening, you cannot stop it, and no, no consumer based company will ever tell you about as it's not a fault.

You are living in cuckoo land with this obsession of no disconnects, and I can demonstrate this with numbers. Having the router restart and taking say 1:45 seconds per month to comeback to life is the equivalent of 99.99% uptime! As far as I am concerned this is a superb up time for something you are only paying £20 per month.

Spending 1 hour on to customer services costs them around £15 (average outsourcing cost for this industry for UK staff) so I am pretty sure they don't want people wasting their time with nonsense of this nature and thus if it was an issue to more than a sample of 1 in a million they would document it.

Well actually TalkTalk Support forum have offered me a new router replacement which I have received 2 days ago! It is a Huawei Router DG8041W-2.T5. The packaging and router design looks 100% identical to the Sagemcom FAST 5364, I have no idea about the specification differences between these 2 routers.

I haven't connected it yet, but will do within a few days. I'm on 25 days connection up-time and will see if the old router reboots again for the 3rd time after 5 days.

But anyway, it will be interesting to find out if the new router will remain stable after 30 days, hopefully it will stop the issue from occurring.

I'm pretty sure if this was a nonsensical issue then TalkTalk would not have voluntarily offered to send me the new router replacement which they have done under their own good will!

stop the issue from occurring.

You have no issue with your consumer broadband. Instead you have an obsession with wishing to obtain a perfect service whilst paying rock bottom prices. You really do need to get over this obsession.