New FTTP install questions

I've just ordered BT Full Fibre 100 and it's due to be installed in about a month.

A bit of searching has managed to answer most questions I have but could anyone help confirm or answer the following.

1. The install is listed as a 1 stage install and we're connected via a pole which loks to have the black fibre modules at the top of it. I presume this means they'll put a new fibre cable across from the pole. Do they follow the existing cable and connect to the same point on the house or can they use a different point?

2. Is the existing cable removed?

3. Am I correct in thinking that they don't install a CSP on the outside of the house and the cable just goes straight through the wall?

4. The current cable runs behind the skirting board to the master socket, if I remove the skirting board again in advance will the engineers be happy to run the fibre in the same way?

If the answer to 1 is yes they'll add a new point and they'll run it behind skirting then I can make it dead easy for the engineer to install.

Yes, a new fibre from the pole ....

Usually, the existing copper span is replaced with a hybrid (fibre/copper) cable. But if you are desperate for it to be attached elsewhere on your property, ask. This might mean they won’t recover the existing copper span.

No, these days an ‘inside out’ install process is used. Your fibre will terminate in an external CSP, and fibre with a pre fitted SC connector will be run from the ONT to the CSP and spliced through.

As long as your proposed fibre route is do-able, and won’t make it liable for damage, then this *should* be OK. Discuss with the installer on the day. Most prefer to take the cable straight out from just beneath the ONT ... running external rather than internal is easier.

The ONT will need a 240 volt socket near by, maybe a twin socket for ONT and your Router.

The master socket will not be used, you could get rid of your land line phone and use VOIP. (look in the VOIP section of the forum).

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

you could get rid of your land line phone and use VOIP. (look in the VOIP section of the forum).

A voice service is already included with BT FTTP - whether you use it or not.

Thanks for the answers guys, most helpful.

Where the line currently enters the house the nearest power socket is about 15ft away on the other side of the room around various bay window corners.

Moving it would mean that it could come through the wall and have a straight 2m run behind skirting and pop out right by a socket and also by the ethernet cables connecting it to the rest of the house.

They could go around the side of the house externally to directly behind this socket point however at some point in the near future we may look at external wall insulation so presumably either we need to get BT out to move it or it'll get buried underneath it.

The BT engineers I've had in the past have always been very accommodating but with the current covid problem I assumed they'd want me around as little as possible hence trying to sort it in advance for them.

Can you just plug a normal phone into the ONT or do they need to be a special VOIP phone?

In reply to a post by Highland76:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

you could get rid of your land line phone and use VOIP. (look in the VOIP section of the forum).

A voice service is already included with BT FTTP - whether you use it or not.

..... but strangely, someone turned up to install a copper line at a property having FTTP installed ... why not just enable it over the fibre. ?!?!

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

The master socket will not be used, you could get rid of your land line phone and use VOIP. (look in the VOIP section of the forum).

This is not true at all, you cease your phone package your will loose your broadband, BT's FTTP still requires you to have a phone package, I checked a little while back due to I don't want to be forced to use the SH2 due to the phone package requiring it and BT told me if I cease / drop the phone package the broadband will also cease.

Also it depends on how the OP has their phones setup, they might be using the phone on an extension, if so it will need for the Master Socket to be connected up.

The Master Socket will either be either connected to the copper line like it is now, or if teh OP chooses BT's Digital Phone Package it might get connected to the SH2.

Paul

The older ONT’s had a PSTN jack on them, for an FVA service ... thus has now been discontinued.

Mostly it’s out of the back of the CP router these days

They *should* come through the wall in a purpose made tube affair, with a neat cap either end .... if so, then wall insulation at a later date won’t be an issue.

From what you’ve described, ONT near the power socket, straight out through the wall there, then round the outside, round the outside* to the CSP would be my guess. This will minimise time in the property for the installer.





* random Malcolm McLaren reference

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

..... but strangely, someone turned up to install a copper line at a property having FTTP installed ... why not just enable it over the fibre. ?!?!

May I ask (sorry for butting in) can we keep our original number we have had for many years over copper should we move to VOIP

Sorry, no idea.

I *think* what you’d do, is port the number to a VOIP provider prior to the move.

No reason if upgrading from copper voice to voice over broadband that you cannot keep the number. All down to the phone operator and what they do.

Thank you.

When I placed my order it allowed me to enter our existing number and I'm expecting it to be moved to BT.

Judging by the posts above we can use the phone by plugging it into the socket on the back of the Smart Hub 2 as shown here.

What's the situation if I want to use my own router, anyway to still connect the phone?

I don't think I've seen any third party routers with a socket to plug a phone in.

While we don't use the phone for any outgoing calls we do use it for a few incoming calls so it would be good to keep it working if possible.

Edited by StuB (Thu 09-Jul-20 16:33:57)

Thanks for the info. As the house has solid walls the insulation in question would be 4 inch of external topped with render the whole of the external cable run would be covered and inaccessible in future.

In reply to a post by StuB:

What's the situation if I want to use my own router, anyway to still connect the phone?

Does you're router have a phone socket.

In reply to a post by StuB:

What's the situation if I want to use my own router, anyway to still connect the phone?

No.
If you're on Digital Voice (VOIP over the fibre) you need to use the BT Smart Hub to use the landline.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In reply to a post by Highland76:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

you could get rid of your land line phone and use VOIP. (look in the VOIP section of the forum).

A voice service is already included with BT FTTP - whether you use it or not.

..... but strangely, someone turned up to install a copper line at a property having FTTP installed ... why not just enable it over the fibre. ?!?!

You can plug a normal phone into the Hub. You also get a couple of cordless handsets supplied with the Digital Voice service. And there will likely be a way of connecting normal wired phones in remotely from the Hub in the near future that doesn't involve having to use the existing wiring in your house.

In reply to a post by StuB:

Thanks for the info. As the house has solid walls the insulation in question would be 4 inch of external topped with render the whole of the external cable run would be covered and inaccessible in future.

As would be the CSP also .... not good. It’ll be all OK, as doubtless the insulation people will tell you, but the day you have an issue, you’ll be stuffed. It happens all the time with copper, and it’ll be much of an issue with fibre.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

No.
If you're on Digital Voice (VOIP over the fibre) you need to use the BT Smart Hub to use the landline.

That's a bit annoying.

So presumably if I want to keep it separate then I should have moved the phone number to a VOIP service and then asked BT for a new number and either ask BT for a new number and not use it or don't take the phone service.

Are there any recommended VOIP services, as mentioned previously it would only really be used for incoming calls?

Alternatively can the BT router be connected in a non router capacity to a network with an existing router on it and still have the phone line working? This would be a bit messy but I'm just thinking aloud.

In reply to a post by jpm:

You also get a couple of cordless handsets supplied with the Digital Voice service.

Only if you choose to order and pay for them.
By default it comes with no handset.

In reply to a post by jpm:

You can plug a normal phone into the Hub. You also get a couple of cordless handsets supplied with the Digital Voice service. And there will likely be a way of connecting normal wired phones in remotely from the Hub in the near future that doesn't involve having to use the existing wiring in your house.

Here's hoping they add a little VOIP adapter boxes like I've used on other services previously where it's a small, separate box that you plug the phone into that plugs into ethernet.

I thought that maybe a problem, I'll have to give it some thought.

What is reason for not using Smart Hub 2?

If its wi-fi then just switch your own router into wireless access point mode (a good number have this option).

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by jpm:

You also get a couple of cordless handsets supplied with the Digital Voice service.

Only if you choose to order and pay for them.
By default it comes with no handset.

Interesting - I could have sworn I read somewhere that you could either have two basic handsets or a single advanced one when you signed up. I can't find that information anywhere now though.

I've not used a Smart Hub 2 before so I don't know of it's features and hopefully they've improved but going by past experience of Home Hubs they're a reasonable product but limit you with things like control of custom DNS settings, QOS, DynDNS, limited firewall rules etc.

In reply to a post by StuB:

Are there any recommended VOIP services, as mentioned previously it would only really be used for incoming calls?

Sipgate. I've used them for years. Biggest best reason is its free to have a 'line', no subscription.

You can 'port' your number to them and I did this. First time was a pain (I had two lines, didn't need the fax line but wanted to keep the number). By the time I moved my second number they had made the system easier. I was moving and couldn't take my number so ported to Sipgate. Now I still receive calls on that number via my broadband using a FritzBox router with built in VoIP. I never make outgoing calls on that line so all it cost was a few quid in porting fees. Sipgate don't seem to care I don't pay them!

If you've also got a copper feed, then BT (Residential) may decide to put the voice on copper instead of Digital Voice, ie its not 100% certain that your will get VOIP. Its BT Business who make it compulsory that you take out Digital Voice with FTTP, irrespective of whether you have a copper line or not. With BTB, they simply give you a pre-configured Yealink VOIP handset which you can plug into any router. Personally I don't use the BTB supplied VOIP handset, any landline calls are sent to my smartphone through the BT Cloud Voice Express app and I can also pick up voicemails through the app.

If you do end up getting voice over copper, then its a bit of an non-issue as you can just leave any old phone plugged into the phone socket for incoming calls, no need for a separate VOIP provider.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Interesting - I could have sworn I read somewhere that you could either have two basic handsets or a single advanced one when you signed up. I can't find that information anywhere now though.

You're quite right.

https://www.bt.com/broadband/digital-voice-learnpage/

To experience HD quality calls and great new features, just plug in your new home phone (that we’ll send you for free) and you're ready to go.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

You're quite right.

https://www.bt.com/broadband/digital-voice-learnpage/

To experience HD quality calls and great new features, just plug in your new home phone (that we’ll send you for free) and you're ready to go.

I have a question...

I looked at that link and the guide they provide and that phone connects over Wi-Fi and not the actual Phone Socket on the the back of the SH2, and that you need to use the WPS to connect them up.

Soooo, my question is, does that mean we can still use our own 3rd party router and just connect that phone handset over our Wi-Fi for it to work?

The setup guide is found here: BT digital-voice--how-do-i-set-up-my-service- then section Set up your Digital Voice handsets

*** update ***
Scrub that, it uses DECT that's built into the SH2, so looks like we might be porting our number then when BT gets around to move us off FVA, I know BT have said they will be leaving us where we are as long as they can.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Fri 10-Jul-20 10:09:06)

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Sipgate. I've used them for years. Biggest best reason is its free to have a 'line', no subscription.

You can 'port' your number to them and I did this. First time was a pain (I had two lines, didn't need the fax line but wanted to keep the number). By the time I moved my second number they had made the system easier. I was moving and couldn't take my number so ported to Sipgate. Now I still receive calls on that number via my broadband using a FritzBox router with built in VoIP. I never make outgoing calls on that line so all it cost was a few quid in porting fees. Sipgate don't seem to care I don't pay them!

That looks a good option. How long did it take to port the number and do you know if you can port it away from BT easily while under contract? ie if I move my number to BT can I then move it away easily if needed?

Well spotted, it would be good if it just connects via wifi and contains all of it's own config.

I wonder if standard VOIP phones with the correct config would work?

In reply to a post by StuB:

That looks a good option. How long did it take to port the number and do you know if you can port it away from BT easily while under contract? ie if I move my number to BT can I then move it away easily if needed?

It was a while ago so to be honest I can't remember. Sipgate say a few days and that sounds right. At the time I was paying Zen for my line, but I think that was fine. I was also ceasing my line so I don't know what happens if you want to keep a BT line, maybe they give you another number, maybe they cease the line?

Where are you moving your number _from_ to BT to then move it out to Sipgate? Slightly confused!

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

As would be the CSP also .... not good. It’ll be all OK, as doubtless the insulation people will tell you, but the day you have an issue, you’ll be stuffed. It happens all the time with copper, and it’ll be much of an issue with fibre.

I can imagine losing access to the cable could cause future problems difficult to sort hence me trying to think about this now.

After a little bit of reading I noted a few comments about overhead supply installs from a pole not having a CSP. Is this info wrong or do some have them and some not?

In reply to a post by StuB:

Well spotted, it would be good if it just connects via wifi and contains all of it's own config.

I wonder if standard VOIP phones with the correct config would work?

I updated my post, it seems the SH2 also supports DECT and that the phone uses that to connect to the SH2, which is a shame.

I might look into porting our number over to a VoIP Service and then have BT just assign a new number to our line.

I think its silly for BT to force people to use their SH2 to use their phone service, what if they were with any other broadband provider that allows for Fibre without a phone service with them and you already had a phone service with BT, how would that work?

TBH I think they should of gone the Ethernet based VoIP Handsets route, that would resolve this issue.

Paul

I currently have phoe and fttc broadband with Pusnet and I signed up for full fibre from BT the other day and asked them to move my number from Plusnet to BT.

If I try and move the number from Plusnet to Sipgate before the move then I suspect it could cause confusion with the order hence wondering about letting the move happen and then if I need to then move from BT to Sipgate.

It's only incoming calls that I really need it for and if BT VOIP can be made to work with a 3rd party router then it's not a problem anyway and likewise it won't be if the voice part is left on copper either.

In reply to a post by StuB:

I currently have phoe and fttc broadband with Pusnet and I signed up for full fibre from BT the other day and asked them to move my number from Plusnet to BT.

If I try and move the number from Plusnet to Sipgate before the move then I suspect it could cause confusion with the order hence wondering about letting the move happen and then if I need to then move from BT to Sipgate.

It's only incoming calls that I really need it for and if BT VOIP can be made to work with a 3rd party router then it's not a problem anyway and likewise it won't be if the voice part is left on copper either.

Yes, complex, being as it seems you get a phone line with BT whether you want it or not. Personally I'd have moved the line from Plusnet to Sipgate anyway. Then its 'safe'. Then if BT give you a number, they give you a number. I have a line with Zen because FTTC but I have no idea of the number!

The danger with porting a number now is that I think, having glanced at the Sipgate guides, it will cease the line and any broadband associated. I think it may be too late for you to go down this route now. At least you have kept your number. If you want to move from BT in future that will be the time - in good time - to move. You need everything set up and in place - a Sipgate account - before you start.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I updated my post, it seems the SH2 also supports DECT and that the phone uses that to connect to the SH2, which is a shame.

Why a shame? That's how I use my VoIP from Sipgate. My FritzBox router logs in to the VoIP and sends it over its built-in DECT. It means punters can use their existing DECT handsets. They don't want to mess about with special VoIP phones or adaptors.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I updated my post, it seems the SH2 also supports DECT and that the phone uses that to connect to the SH2, which is a shame.

Why a shame? That's how I use my VoIP from Sipgate. My FritzBox router logs in to the VoIP and sends it over its built-in DECT. It means punters can use their existing DECT handsets. They don't want to mess about with special VoIP phones or adaptors.

I was referring to I was hoping it was over Wi-Fi, that way we might of been able to use it on our own routers, but BT probably won't allow for any other routers that supports DECT to be used.

But you never know what happens later on.

Paul

Have BT actually said you're going on Digital Voice?

They tell you during the order process if you are.
If there's no mention of it then your voice service will continue over the copper pair.

I ordered BT FTTP yesterday and it does not come with Digital Voice.
They are sending an engineer to reactivate my copper landline (I'm with Virgin at the moment).

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I think its silly for BT to force people to use their SH2 to use their phone service, what if they were with any other broadband provider that allows for Fibre without a phone service with them and you already had a phone service with BT, how would that work?

TBH I think they should of gone the Ethernet based VoIP Handsets route, that would resolve this issue.

Paul

It's all a matter of costs and complexity - it will be costing a incredibly small amount for BT to request that their CPE manufacturer puts a DECT base station into the device, and by combining it they don't have to ship a separate box, people don't have a 'messy' looking setup, everything can be managed from a single place, the base station can be updated with the Hub firmware, there's not a separate device to unplug accidentally etc. The amount of people who don't use the ISP-provided router must be incredibly small, and are probably also the people who aren't that fussed about using a 'landline' telephone.

The only provider I've seen that lets you use their phone service without their router is Hyperoptic, who will give you the SIP credentials for your service. Sky are doing SOGEA and that requires their router, same with Virgin Media. If you want a separate box then you can get BT Business which supplies a Yealink DECT system, or port the number out to a SIP service and have the freedom to use whatever hardware you want.

I have Digital Voice so if anybody has questions I can help. I don't have the Advanced handset, just the Essential ones.

I've seen it asked - you can pair your own DECT handsets to the BT Hub, but obviously they just function as basic handsets. I paired an old Panasonic model and it did ring in a bit of a weird way - just a continuous tone until picked up. Plugging the Panasonic DECT base into the Hub had it functioning normally.

Edited by jpm (Fri 10-Jul-20 11:07:22)

In reply to a post by jpm:

The only provider I've seen that lets you use their phone service without their router is Hyperoptic

BT Business also let you use their VOIP service using a third party router.

Yes, I should have clarified residential providers

In reply to a post by Highland76:

In reply to a post by jpm:

The only provider I've seen that lets you use their phone service without their router is Hyperoptic

BT Business also let you use their VOIP service using a third party router.

That's a point, I did forget about that VoIP handset (that I think is an ethernet based phone), I wonder if you can have FTTP (Full Fibre 900) for the home, and then have a business phone line.
If you can mix the two what is the price difference between the box standard residential phone line and business phone line?

I even told BT I would be happy to pay for that handset if I was able to use it on our Full Fibre (FTTP) connection for their Digital Voice Service using our own 3rd party router, I was told that they haven't looked into ways to provide this as a server as yet.

But that was a while back when I was on the Full Fibre 300.

So things may or may not of changed since then.

Paul

Even if it was over Wi-FI it would be talking in the first instance to the hardware inside the Hub that handled the digital voice service.

A router supporting DECT is nothing to do with it. its all down to where the SIP is handled, and third party routers and NAT are frequently a pain with VoIP devices.

In time expect to see standard alone BT Digital Voice Ethernet connecting devices.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Even if it was over Wi-FI it would be talking in the first instance to the hardware inside the Hub that handled the digital voice service.

I wasn't too sure if it was doing just that, or it was a normal VoIP device that connected via Wi-Fi and not DECT, the DECT part for that handset and the SH2 I not long found out.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

A router supporting DECT is nothing to do with it. its all down to where the SIP is handled, and third party routers and NAT are frequently a pain with VoIP devices.

I am aware of that, both of my old FRITZ Routers supported DECT, as for SIP, I have never used it or had to set that up myself, so I cannot say about that.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

In time expect to see standard alone BT Digital Voice Ethernet connecting devices.

Yeah, hopefully they will before we get forced over, BT did say that they will try and keep us on FVA for as long as possible, just hope my old 4 port ONT doesn't need replacing with a new one.

I know PSTN will stop in 2025 so I assume we would be moved way before then, just hope we are able to use an ethernet based devices / handsets before then.

But what would happen if I was with Zen on FTTP (without phone line rental) using my own 3rd party router and the phone line was with BT over the copper line, what would happen then referring to moving over to Digital Voice and the PSTN Switch off ?

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Fri 10-Jul-20 11:51:36)

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

But what would happen if I was with Zen on FTTP (without phone line rental) using my own 3rd party router and the phone line was with BT over the copper line, what would happen then referring to moving over to Digital Voice and the PSTN Switch off ?

Paul

As OpenReach seem to be going down the 1 FTTP service per household route then that might not be possible.

Taking a phone only service on FTTP will come with a broadband service with enough bandwidth to make calls.

If you're using the fibre with another provider I assume BT would not be able to provide a stand alone voice service alongside another providers broadband.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Have BT actually said you're going on Digital Voice?

They tell you during the order process if you are.
If there's no mention of it then your voice service will continue over the copper pair.

I ordered BT FTTP yesterday and it does not come with Digital Voice.
They are sending an engineer to reactivate my copper landline (I'm with Virgin at the moment).

That's a very good point. I've just looked at my order confirmation and also logged into my BT account to view it there too and all it says is that I've ordered " Broadband, Landline, Mobile" and under the landline section it just says I've taken the PAYG option.

There is no mention of digital voice.

I've also had a text from BT saying welcome and giving a phone number to call if I have any questions and I've just done so and the guy looked at my order and his understanding is that my install and other brownfield installs will keep the copper line in which case the VOIP phone problem disappears for the timebeing at least.

Hopefully that is the case.

Once Salisbury happens we will know the answer

In reply to a post by StuB:

There is no mention of digital voice.

I know it says for us "Broadband & Digital Voice" (might also be generic text) in the completed order, but our phone service is over FVA via the ONT.

Paul

Excuse my ignorance but is the Salisbury reference about it becoming a full fibre city (just from a quick Google) and how they handle residential phones going forward?

I'll keep my eyes pen for any correspondance that mentions 'digital voice'.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

A router supporting DECT is nothing to do with it. its all down to where the SIP is handled, and third party routers and NAT are frequently a pain with VoIP devices.

Yes, I assumed the Hub was doing the DECT to SIP and the SIP server will be in the "cloud". This also allows BT to ensure phone calls are QoS'd correctly for those that saturate the uplink.

Salisbury has quite an aggressive schedule for retiring the copper voice network, the outcome of which will inform future decisions.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Salisbury has quite an aggressive schedule for retiring the copper voice network, the outcome of which will inform future decisions.

That makes sense, thanks.

A word of caution if porting a number to Sipgate. I have tried this recently and from the Sipgate end it was fine, but not so from BT. Having received notification from Sipgate that the porting request had been submitted I quickly received an email from BT saying they were sorry I was leaving them! Hang on - I had only just joined them and they were wanting, understandably, the remaining contract time paid for etc. etc.. The porting request had prompted a line cease which was not the case. I have FTTP and so do not need the BT landline for Broadband, only voice, but after several calls to BT later I had managed to retain my connection, but with no porting. The only solution BT could come up with was to request a 're-number' on my existing voice line and then port my number to Sipgate, but that leaves potential problem of my number being consumed by the BT system never to see the light of day again, at least with me. So I have halted my porting process. What you can do with Sipgate is to spoof the CLI to show a different number which I have done using my current phone number so at least if I call out it shows my regular number to the call recipient.

Has anybody managed to port successfully their BT number to a VOIP service?

I was wondering about this as well - whether starting a port of my number when I am on Digital Voice would kick off the cease process for the FTTC as well. It sounds like they are linked together as far as BT are concerned and the only way to achieve it would be to start the port when you're out of contract, let it complete, and then sign up for a broadband service again with a new number, and just put up with the downtime in between.

Were you not aware of the fact that porting your BT number would also cease the broadband, whether FTTC or FTTP? That’s because unlike some other CPs BT don’t sell a data only broadband service.

In your case BT and Sipgate did nothing wrong.

No I wasn't. It just struck me as a sledgehammer to crack a nut. All I wanted was to port my number, I didn't want to cease my landline with BT, just have a new number allocated to it.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I was wondering about this as well - whether starting a port of my number when I am on Digital Voice would kick off the cease process for the FTTC as well. It sounds like they are linked together as far as BT are concerned and the only way to achieve it would be to start the port when you're out of contract, let it complete, and then sign up for a broadband service again with a new number, and just put up with the downtime in between.

While that sounds like a great idea, the down time could be up to week(s) before getting a landline and broadband re-installed and for people with health issues that require the phone line and internet for medial help, this might be an issue.

But saying that, it might still be something to look into, thanks

Paul

In reply to a post by Fumbledore:

No I wasn't. It just struck me as a sledgehammer to crack a nut. All I wanted was to port my number, I didn't want to cease my landline with BT, just have a new number allocated to it.

There's a specific process for this called renumber and port.
You contact your current ISP for this.

When you try port your number away BT simply get notification that particular number is leaving, which means so are you.

Yes, that’s not correct. All currently fitted FTTP installs should have a CSP fitted. (this doesn’t mean they all do, but they ought to)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes, that’s not correct. All currently fitted FTTP installs should have a CSP fitted. (this doesn’t mean they all do, but they ought to)

Engineer turned up at mine yesterday to look at my property to assess how he's doing my external install.

I asked if he was fitting a CSP and he said "it depends what cables I have in my van".

Obviously that fills me with confidence.

He opened the cover for my copper feed, had a quick look, then left and didn't come back.
My BT order says they aren't doing the external install till 29th July so wasn't expecting anyone.

Should all installs definitely be with a CSP now?

It's a brand new FTTP deployment, retro new build.
I'd rather not have a single cable if the field fit connectors fail as often as you've said in the past.
There would literally be 1m of internal cable to be stripped back so I'm worried they will use this method just because it's easier.
I'd much rather have a CSP if it's going to be more reliable and easier to repair any issues.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

There's a specific process for this called renumber and port.
You contact your current ISP for this.

AAISP offer and describe this.

BT however seem to use the telephone number to manage the entire service.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I asked if he was fitting a CSP and he said "it depends what cables I have in my van".

Interesting...

Are there different types of UG fibre cable then? maybe some that are compatible with a field kit SC connector and some that are not as I would expect all UG fibre cable to be compatible with a CSP.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

BT however seem to use the telephone number to manage the entire service.

You can change your phone number with BT though.
Whether they have a process in place to then port the old number out I'm not sure.

15-20 years ago I changed my landline number with BT and it killed the ADSL.

I changed my BT landline number about 4 years ago with zero issues to my FTTC.

I don't think it's BT who tie the number to the service. I think the entire Wholesale product is number tied.

If you try to port your landline number to VOIP with any ISP without telling your provider it will cease the service.

Adrian/revk from AAISP discusses the issue in his blog

Normally, a number port is "Gaining Provider Led" and means that the new operator asks to take the number. 14 days later, if no objections, the number moved over. But this is the rub - the porting system is done on "service" not number. Having ported a service, like a normal landline, the service is inherently ceased as a result of the number port. That ceases the broadband.

https://www.revk.uk/2016/04/number-porting-broadband...

They need to use the "Renumber with Number Export" which isn't just an AAISP thing, it's an OpenReach provided service but appears to cost
£35 exc vat.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

They need to use the "Renumber with Number Export" which isn't just an AAISP thing, it's an OpenReach provided service but appears to cost
£35 exc vat.

BT definitely don't offer 'Renumber with Number Export' at present because I asked them about this a while back and they said no, despite it being available at wholesale level. They've simply chosen not to offer it, just as they've chosen not to offer FTTP data only (ie without voice) which again is also available at wholesale level. I suspect its just be the niche/smaller ISP who offer such options.

One thing BT do allow you to do now though (at least their Business division) is port in another landline/VOIP number to replace the BT issued one without affecting your broadband service. I did this recently by moving my yay.com VOIP number back to BT without any dramas.

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-Jul-20 18:28:27)

They should be following the ‘inside out’ process, and this will leave with a decent connector on the end, and a CSP.

The stage 1 visit should see fibre pulled in through the duct, lit, and hopefully a CSP to house it.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I asked if he was fitting a CSP and he said "it depends what cables I have in my van".

Interesting...

Are there different types of UG fibre cable then? maybe some that are compatible with a field kit SC connector and some that are not as I would expect all UG fibre cable to be compatible with a CSP.

Does anyone know the answer to this question?