Zen Internet - FTTP Speeds

I switched over to ZEN Internet’s full FTTP (300Mb/50Mb) in July – there were a few issues getting the service activated but that all seems to be resolved now. It is working and seems stable.

I’ve been monitoring the speeds using the speedtest-cli command line version. I have it running on a Raspberry Pi 4 4GB: the Pi is hardwired in to my router (Draytek 2860). A job runs every 4 hours to test the speed. Job uses http to avoid any https encryption overhead. Results are stored in a CSV file.

Results over five days:

Average download : 241Mb/s which is 80% of the stated (300Mb/s) speed. Lowest 100Mb/s highest 270Mb/s
Average upload : 48Mbps and that is constant – never drops below 47Mbs.

Are these acceptable values? I understand there will be some variation in download speed but the result show it is consistently below 300Mb/s (never seen 300Mb/s) with some significant troughs of below 150Mb/s.

I haven’t contacted ZEN yet because l want to understand if the results I’m getting are within an acceptable range.

Chris

In reply to a post by ChrisON:

I haven’t contacted ZEN yet because l want to understand if the results I’m getting are within an acceptable range.

Some questions:

1) Is your PI capable of maxing out the line?

2) Are you using multiple servers and averaging? If not, how do you know the speed test server is not overloaded at the time of the test and can only get you 200 mbps?

Hi,

The Draytek 2860 cannot do the throughput. I went on to BT Fibre 900 a few months ago, and my 2860 could only manage 260mbps download.

I've been told the 2862 is a little better, but I am now using a TP-Link Archer C9 with a 880mbps download.

Hope this helps.

In reply to a post by ChrisON:

I haven’t contacted ZEN yet because l want to understand if the results I’m getting are within an acceptable range.

Did Zen provide you with a router, worth repeating a few hours testing using this instead of the Draytek.

The Draytek has a gigabit WAN port but the Firewall limits the throughput to 300mbs max and less in real life as you have found out, there are later models that can handle 400mbs max which would cope. Zen would normally have supplied a Fritzbox which can handle the full gigabit throughput.

In reply to a post by kommando:

The Draytek has a gigabit WAN port but the Firewall limits the throughput to 300mbs max and less in real life as you have found out, there are later models that can handle 400mbs max which would cope. Zen would normally have supplied a Fritzbox which can handle the full gigabit throughput.

I wonder if its the firewall, or the PPPoE, but the only way to test that would be to find someone on a Virgin Media cable service of 300 Mbps or faster. Of course this is not unusual in routers.

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes, ZEN did supply a Fritz! 7530 from when l had the VDSL FTTC package last year (the switch to FTTP was a regrade). I couldn't get it to work with the new FTTP connection and as l needed my connection up and running l plugged in the Draytek, entered my ZEN details and it worked immediately. I had always intended to use the Draytek as l am used to it and like some the features. Therefore l didn't try very hard to get the Fritz! router working with the FTTP connection and it just sits there for WiFi connections (It is much better than the Draytek in that respect).

To answer some of the other replies:

1) Yes, the Pi 4B is capable of maxing out the 1Gb link - the older 3B+ wasn't.
2) l thought the test server you get was just based on fastest ping?

I have no problems with the Fritz! so it sounds like the first job is to get that working with the FTTP connection.

I'll report back in a few days if l get it working.


Thanks again for the helpful replies.

Chris

Draytek say it's a firewall limitation.

In reply to a post by kommando:

Draytek say it's a firewall limitation.

I guess the only way to test would be to try an ISP without PPPoE, which is unusual in the UK, probably only Virgin Media are the big one. It could be the firewall is the part doing NAT, which would make sense as it has to change every packet as it goes through.

My Asus router has a NAT accelerator in hardware, in an attempt to handle higher speeds. It can handle 2xWAN connections bonded to 2Gbit/sec, but I have no idea about PPPoE or NAT throughput, as I’m not going to see those speeds for decades!

Do some speed tests with it plugged into the ONT.
Fibre>ONT>Pi.

In reply to a post by kommando:

Draytek say it's a firewall limitation.

Hmmm......not so sure on that. I've installed the Speedtest CLI on my Windows 10 PC and have got speeds over 300Mb/s - the test shown below had peaks at 308Mb/s while running - average is 296Mb/s. It may be that the Pi 4 isn't quite maxing out the 1Gb/s connection as suggested by one reply; even though it's plugged directly in to the Draytek.

Server: GTT.net - Slough (id = 24387)
ISP: Zen Internet Ltd
Latency: 11.08 ms (0.13 ms jitter)
Download: 296.00 Mbps (data used: 406.7 MB)
Upload: 48.30 Mbps (data used: 24.2 MB)
Packet Loss: 0.4%
Result URL: https://www.speedtest.net/result/c/7179d36e-27aa-4c9...


I'm still playing around with the Windows Speedtest CLi and need to see if i can get it to log to a CSV in the same way l did with the Pi (which used a Python script). Problem is my PC isn't on 24x7 whereas my Pi 4 is.

Chris

Just to give my two pence...

I am on the 900/100 service and have a similar setup, but with the Fritz router instead of the Draytek.

I can confirm that, with the Fritz at least, I can get well past 300Mbps. Zen have logged a fault with OR, but even with that, I can get 450-500 Mbps through the pi4 (1Gbps Eth straight to the Fritz), and using `iperf` to another machine also on ethernet, I can get over 800 Mbps to and from the pi, though there was some variation coming from somewhere.

Results below, but my first suggestion would be to dig into the settings of the Fritz to set up PPPoE.

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ speedtest
Retrieving speedtest.net configuration...
Testing from Zen Internet Ltd (XX.XX.XXX.XXX)...
Retrieving speedtest.net server list...
Selecting best server based on ping...
Hosted by Iomart (Maidenhead) [63.72 km]: 10.031 ms
Testing download speed................................................................................
Download: 434.68 Mbit/s
Testing upload speed......................................................................................................
Upload: 88.22 Mbit/s

[ 4] local 192.168.82.54 port 5001 connected with 192.168.82.57 port 50263
[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 1014 MBytes 849 Mbits/sec
[ 4] local 192.168.82.54 port 5001 connected with 192.168.82.57 port 50587
[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 883 MBytes 739 Mbits/sec
[ 4] local 192.168.82.54 port 5001 connected with 192.168.82.57 port 51930
[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 960 MBytes 805 Mbits/sec
[ 4] local 192.168.82.54 port 5001 connected with 192.168.82.57 port 52133
[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 909 MBytes 762 Mbits/sec

I'm not sure where the variation comes from.

I am also on 900/110 FTTP service care of Cerberus (FTTP Ultra 2) on my property in Suffolk.

On my current setup, the following Speedtest.net results using a Lenovo M720q using 1000BaseT NIC cabled though a Netgear S3300 switch, via Cradlepoint AER2200 router to the ONT.

Ping: 6ms
Download: 773.6 Mbps
Upload: 105.43 Mbps
Host: Coreix Ltd

Snapshot taken @19:46 on 16 August, so peak-ish time. No doubt PC direct connected into ONT will give a better result, but that's not really a representative connection.

Router is getting swapped over in due course, which may see a difference in throughputs.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by ChrisON:

I haven’t contacted ZEN yet because l want to understand if the results I’m getting are within an acceptable range.

Did Zen provide you with a router, worth repeating a few hours testing using this instead of the Draytek.

Finally got the Fritz! 7530 working. Took a bit of fiddling as it isn't just a matter of plugging the ONT in to the LAN1 port (which is what the Openreach engineer told me). I couldn't find any clear instructions on Zen's site on how to do it. It isn't entirely obvious from the router's manual either.

1) Internet --> Account Information --> Connection Settings: Check the 'Via an External Modem Box'
2) You have to specify the speeds. I entered 300/50 but once it negotiated the connection it changed to 1000/150.
3) Home Network --> Network --> IPv4 Addresses there is an option to enter the static Zen IP address. Not entirely sure it's needed but l added it anyway.

It took a few minutes to negotiate but now it works just fine.

I changed from running the Speedtest CLI from my Raspberry Pi to my Windows 10 PC and got the following results.
Draytek 2862 Results

Average Upload : 248Mbps
Average Download : 48.2Mbps
Average Ping : 11.1ms

Result Graph --> Draytek 2862 - Speedtest Results

Fritz! 7530 Results

Average Upload : 277Mbps
Average Download : 48.3Mbps
Average Ping : 11.2ms

Result Graph --> Fritz! 7530 Speedtest Results

To me there is a clear difference between the Fritz! and the Draytek - the Fritz! 7530 produces far more test results above 300Mbps and a higher average speed over the test periods: Ping & Download are consistent between the two.

So, back to my original question. Are these results normal? There are a lot of results significantly below 200Mbps but l have no idea.

Chris

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Sep-20 10:00:26)

For a 900/50 service those speeds are not normal

http://tbb.st/1598039865460825655 what I get from a BT service with same speeds. Standard BT Smart Hub 2

http://tbb.st/1598108113711297155 399 Mbps over Wi-Fi to mobile phone

Thanks for posting update . I was looking to purchase a Draytek to run a Virgin Media 500mb and VDSL network together. I have seen low maximum throughput mentioned with Draytek's before but hoped it was only if you had all the bells and whistles turned on. Quite disappointing that a £200+ device is not capable of even 300mb. Does the Fritz have dual wan?

Andrew, ChrisON is on the 300/50 zen product!

In reply to a post by ChrisON:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by ChrisON:

I haven’t contacted ZEN yet because l want to understand if the results I’m getting are within an acceptable range.

Did Zen provide you with a router, worth repeating a few hours testing using this instead of the Draytek.

Finally got the Fritz! 7530 working. Took a bit of fiddling as it isn't just a matter of plugging the ONT in to the LAN1 port (which is what the Openreach engineer told me). I couldn't find any clear instructions on Zen's site on how to do it. It isn't entirely obvious from the router's manual either.

1) Internet --> Account Information --> Connection Settings: Check the 'Via an External Modem Box'
2) You have to specify the speeds. I entered 300/50 but once it negotiated the connection it changed to 1000/150.
3) Home Network --> Network --> IPv4 Addresses there is an option to enter the static Zen IP address. Not entirely sure it's needed but l added it anyway.

It took a few minutes to negotiate but now it works just fine.

I changed from running the Speedtest CLI from my Raspberry Pi to my Windows 10 PC and got the following results.
Draytek 2862 Results

Average Upload : 248Mbps
Average Download : 48.2Mbps
Average Ping : 11.1ms

Result Graph --> Draytek 2862 - Speedtest Results

Fritz! 7530 Results

Average Upload : 277Mbps
Average Download : 48.3Mbps
Average Ping : 11.2ms

Result Graph --> Fritz! 7530 Speedtest Results

To me there is a clear difference between the Fritz! and the Draytek - the Fritz! 7530 produces far more test results above 300Mbps and a higher average speed over the test periods: Ping & Download are consistent between the two.

So, back to my original question. Are these results normal? There are a lot of results significantly below 200Mbps but l have no idea.

Chris

Hi,

I can confirm that the maximum theoretical throughput of the DrayTek Vigor 2862 is 400Mbps.
If you have any of the firewall's additional features like DoS protection enabled it will be lower.

Thanks
Dan

Edited by danielhyde (Thu 03-Sep-20 11:59:33)

Ah - the changing connection speeds to 1000/50 got me.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Thanks for posting update . I was looking to purchase a Draytek to run a Virgin Media 500mb and VDSL network together. I have seen low maximum throughput mentioned with Draytek's before but hoped it was only if you had all the bells and whistles turned on. Quite disappointing that a £200+ device is not capable of even 300mb. Does the Fritz have dual wan?

The Fritz! 7530 has no dedicated Wan ports - or do you mean dual WiFi? Has both 2.4 & 5GHz Wifi and it is very good compared to the Draytek.

Chris

In reply to a post by gary333:

Thanks for posting update . I was looking to purchase a Draytek to run a Virgin Media 500mb and VDSL network together. I have seen low maximum throughput mentioned with Draytek's before but hoped it was only if you had all the bells and whistles turned on. Quite disappointing that a £200+ device is not capable of even 300mb. Does the Fritz have dual wan?

You may get a bit more on Virgin Media as there is no PPPoE CPU overhead that there is on Openreach based connections (ADSL, FTTC, FTTP). The SmallNetBuilder website has some throughput information for many models, and does not comment on PPPoE, but some of the WiFi 6 routers support 900 Mbps throughput.

Plenty of high end wifi 5 routers out there which support Gigabit speeds on wired connections. Such as the Asus RT-AC86U, RT-AC88U, Netgear R7800 and R9000 just to name a few. Given the high cost of wifi 6 routers right now only worth investing in one if you need gigabit wifi speeds as well. But wifi 6E is just around the corner, so expect prices to drop massively very soon.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Ah - the changing connection speeds to 1000/50 got me.

Got me too. Wasn't expecting to see that. Why does the router negotiate that speed when the maximum l can get is 300/50?

Chris

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Sep-20 20:03:29)

Same package here. I was on an FB2900 but it was only able to achieve around 700 to 800 megabits downstream. I eventually, recently, swapped it for an EdgeRouter Pro 8 (spare) and I'm now maxing out the connection on the speed test.

Ping: 5ms
Download: 881.09Mbps
Upload: 120.43Mbps

I've since enabled QoS on the upstream, which the router is able to handle, to minimise any sudden and fairly significant ping fluctuations when uploading a lot of data. Downstream doesn't have QoS enabled, both because the router's CPU can't handle that speed and because it doesn't need it on gigabit anyway.

https://www.speedtest.net/result/d/237856b6-b24f-4cd...

Edited by Ixel (Thu 03-Sep-20 20:35:36)

Yeah i was confused by that, but easy to miss read that if reading fast .. I only pointed it out to avoid everyone going down the wrong path.

If there isn't a huge difference in Openreach pricing, or there was a special offer on from Openreach, then the ISP may purchase the higher package then throttle it themselves.

Plusnet once did something like this. They offered 40/20 IIRC, which could only be done by them buying Openreach 80/20.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Plenty of high end wifi 5 routers out there which support Gigabit speeds on wired connections. Such as the Asus RT-AC86U, RT-AC88U, Netgear R7800 and R9000 just to name a few. Given the high cost of wifi 6 routers right now only worth investing in one if you need gigabit wifi speeds as well. But wifi 6E is just around the corner, so expect prices to drop massively very soon.

Agreed, as an owner of the RT-AX88U, and previously of the AC86U, I know these boxes are very quick, even with PPPoE. However a lot of routers, especially those designed in the US, are not necessarily tested with PPPoE as the US cable firms do not need this, and the bulk of broadband over there is cable.

I didn't think 6E would be possible in the UK, unless Ofcom released more spectrum?

Router does not negotiate speed on FTTP. ONT connects at 2.4 Gbps down and 1.2 Gbps up always

There can be traffic management settings in some routers, used for things like QoS. Setting 300/50 would be marginally low. Especially as upload can burst higher than the product speed

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Plenty of high end wifi 5 routers out there which support Gigabit speeds on wired connections. Such as the Asus RT-AC86U, RT-AC88U, Netgear R7800 and R9000 just to name a few. Given the high cost of wifi 6 routers right now only worth investing in one if you need gigabit wifi speeds as well. But wifi 6E is just around the corner, so expect prices to drop massively very soon.

Agreed, as an owner of the RT-AX88U, and previously of the AC86U, I know these boxes are very quick, even with PPPoE. However a lot of routers, especially those designed in the US, are not necessarily tested with PPPoE as the US cable firms do not need this, and the bulk of broadband over there is cable.

I didn't think 6E would be possible in the UK, unless Ofcom released more spectrum?

Wifi 6E should be coming to the UK:

Ofcom UK to Make 6GHz Band Available for Faster Home Wi-Fi

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Router does not negotiate speed on FTTP. ONT connects at 2.4 Gbps down and 1.2 Gbps up always

There can be traffic management settings in some routers, used for things like QoS. Setting 300/50 would be marginally low. Especially as upload can burst higher than the product speed

Where is the Fritz! 7530 getting the 1000 Down/150 Up values from? I entered the 300/50 in to the router as that's the service I'm paying for: you had to put something in - it changed to 1000/150 itself. Is that the speed between the router and the ONT?

I don't need faster speeds - 300Mbps is fine for me. The reason l started this thread is to determine if what I'm getting is a good service. Zen state '300Mbps Average Download Speed' for the service I'm paying for: the figures l have produced suggest I'm not quite getting that.

Chris

Have you done speed tests on a pc connected directly to the ONT? That should be your first port of call if not already done. If you’re seeing 300 Mbps consistently from the ONT directly then nothing wrong at Zen’s end.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Have you done speed tests on a pc connected directly to the ONT? That should be your first port of call if not already done. If you’re seeing 300 Mbps consistently from the ONT directly then nothing wrong at Zen’s end.

I can try it if l can find a long enough cable. However ideally it have to have a basic OS install: no AV/Anti Malware so that nothing could interfere with data throughput. Such a set up doesn't represent how an internet connection is typically used. Zen don't say 'Average 300Mbps as long as your device is connected directly to the ONT'. They provide a router that sits between the ONT and my systems so l think it would be reasonable expectation to achieve their stated speeds with the hardware they supply.

However my curiosity has got the better of me and, as l said, if l can find a long enough cable then I'll try it. I assume It's a matter of setting my PC's IP address with my Zen supplied static IP/Gateway and use their DNS servers?

Chris

I understand where you’re coming from but technically Zen are supplying you with 300 Mbps at the ONT port so you need to go back to basics and check there first. You could potentially be wasting time trying to troubleshoot other stuff if you’re not getting 300 Mbps at all from the ONT. It’s very easy to setup a PPPoE connection on any Windoze machine, no need to disable AV or setup a static IP. And if you do find you’re getting 300+ Mbps at the ONT, then most half decent routers should easily cope with 300/50 wired speeds - including most Fritzbox models.