FTTP - so near yet so far

Hello

I am on an exchange only line north of Aberdeen, and recently got excited when FTTP infrastructure was put in close to my house. The fibre comes out of the ground at the bottom of my drive and then goes up a pole (DP-22) where it terminates in what I believe is called a CBT with 4 outlets. All 4 outlets are currently free.

According to the Openreach site I cannot get FTTP, although my neighbour can. My neighbour is much closer to the pole than I am. BT have said that Openreach have said that I am too far from the infrastructure - scaling from google maps it's under 300m, does anyone know what the maximum is?

Of course I am being biased and optimistic, but this sounds like a 'computer says no' database issue to me?

I'd be grateful for any suggestions on resolving this, if it's possible.

Thanks.

If it was 10 metres then would be a computer says no issue. but at 300 metres that is outside usual distances.

150m is about the limit, so would need a joint and somewhere to put the joint, so as this is likely funded by the Digital Scotland roll-out this would bring the costs above the threshold that the project will fund.

Thanks Mr S. I have read in another post on this forum that overhead kits of 360m are available but I appreciate you're well informed.

What kind of place is required to put the joint do you know, can it just be pole mounted or are there other specific requirements?

I have filled in the community fibre request form so maybe they will then tell me what cost I would be looking at to fund this myself.

Thanks again.

Suspect that the longer kits are only used where its a cluster of properties that are served, and even then there is still the question of how the cable gets to you, e.g. poles or underground, over private land

Joints need an underground chamber or pole to go on.

If the end of your drive is within a few metres of the CBT, i.e. issue is drive length really then if you can get mains to power the ONT and a safe waterproof location e.g. small tool shed you could get ONT installed there and then undertake getting the Ethernet out to your property for the ISP router (using fibre due to distance i.e. Ethernet - media converter - fibre - media converter) might be the way.

Another thing how many properties are in range of the ONT that is present, if 4 then there is no spare port for you.

The 350 kits are single user, but are a ‘special order’ item.

The important question to the OP is.... is his current copper service coming from the pole he mentions ? (I suspect not)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Suspect that the longer kits are only used where its a cluster of properties that are served, and even then there is still the question of how the cable gets to you, e.g. poles or underground, over private land

There are existing poles carrying copper cables, some of which may or may not be mine. The poles go along the drive which is private land. I am not the owner of the drive unfortunately, I merely have a right of access over it.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Joints need an underground chamber or pole to go on.

Thanks. Hopefully won't be a problem.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If the end of your drive is within a few metres of the CBT, i.e. issue is drive length really then if you can get mains to power the ONT and a safe waterproof location e.g. small tool shed you could get ONT installed there and then undertake getting the Ethernet out to your property for the ISP router (using fibre due to distance i.e. Ethernet - media converter - fibre - media converter) might be the way.

Good suggestion thanks, but there's no suitable building and I don't own the drive so I don't think this is a goer.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Another thing how many properties are in range of the ONT that is present, if 4 then there is no spare port for you.

I'm still learning the lingo but did you mean to write CBT? There is one property within 10m of the CBT, There is no other property within 150m.
There are a couple marginally closer than I am along the main road but I am 99% sure they have their own CBT immediately outside. They all show as fibre ready on the Openreach checker.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The 350 kits are single user, but are a ‘special order’ item.

Interesting, does "special order" mean expensive and not being covered by Digital Scotland funding that Mr Saffron mentioned earlier?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The important question to the OP is.... is his current copper service coming from the pole he mentions ? (I suspect not)

Interesting point. Studying the lines with binoculars I can say that the line from my house goes into a junction box near my house, and then splits into two - one goes to the DP-22 pole, and the other goes in another direction. During one of my more productive calls with BT a helpful lady put me on hold for 40 mins while she made a load of enquiries and then came back and told me that I am not currently served from DP-22 and that's the problem. So the solution was to disconnect me and reconnect (on the same day all being well) via DP-22, with FTTP. She assured me someone would be in touch with me to confirm when they could do it. One month on, I've heard from no one and when I call BT there is no record of this discussion and we're back to computer says no.

So it would appear that whether or not I am served from this pole, the BT/Openreach database at least thinks I am not which is the same thing ultimately.

Zarjaz, do I detect that you might have encountered this scenario before and do you know if there is a solution?

Thanks.

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The 350 kits are single user, but are a ‘special order’ item.

Interesting, does "special order" mean expensive and not being covered by Digital Scotland funding that Mr Saffron mentioned earlier?

How does your current telephone\broadband service get from the pole (with the CBT's attached) to your property? is it directly buried cable, ducted or overhead via additional poles.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The 350 kits are single user, but are a ‘special order’ item.

Interesting, does "special order" mean expensive and not being covered by Digital Scotland funding that Mr Saffron mentioned earlier?

How does your current telephone\broadband service get from the pole (with the CBT's attached) to your property? is it directly buried cable, ducted or overhead via additional poles.

The latter - overhead.

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Interesting, does "special order" mean expensive and not being covered by Digital Scotland funding that Mr Saffron mentioned earlier?

How does your current telephone\broadband service get from the pole (with the CBT's attached) to your property? is it directly buried cable, ducted or overhead via additional poles.

The latter - overhead.

Are the intermediate poles (between CBT pole and your property) less than 67 metres apart?

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

In reply to a post by dect:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

How does your current telephone\broadband service get from the pole (with the CBT's attached) to your property? is it directly buried cable, ducted or overhead via additional poles.

The latter - overhead.

Are the intermediate poles (between CBT pole and your property) less than 67 metres apart?

Yeah, nothing like that far apart.

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

The latter - overhead.

Are the intermediate poles (between CBT pole and your property) less than 67 metres apart?

Yeah, nothing like that far apart.

Unless I've missed something distance doesn't appear to be an issue (assuming your property is 300m from the CBT via the existing poles) using one of those special kits Zarjaz spoke about.

Some other factors we don't know are how many of those ports on the 4 port CBT are lit (e.g. connected up to the splitter) and how many of your neighbours have fttp showing on the DSL checker.

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Aug-20 14:46:23)

any chance of some photos at least from your house to the pole that has the cbt and this box. Only suggesting this because we, i think struggling to see the issue(not your fault but there must a reason for the db flagged as it is )

In reply to a post by dect:

Unless I've missed something distance doesn't appear to be an issue (assuming your property is 300m from the CBT via the existing poles) using one of those special kits Zarjaz spoke about.

Some other factors we don't know are how many of those ports on the 4 port CBT are lit (e.g. connected up to the splitter) and how many of your neighbours have fttp showing on the DSL checker.

Thanks - do you think then the issue is that the special kits aren't being made available for standard installs?

Looking around at some other outlying properties nearby which I reckon are similar distances from a CBT as I am, I can see many are FTTP eligible in the checker, so either fibre has been run closer to their houses or the 350m overheads are being made available... Reckon the lady who told me I was served from a different pole and needed to dsiconnect/reconnect was onto something? Why do they insist that the fibre and copper need to take the same route does anyone know?

I don't suppose there is any way for me to tell how many of the CBT ports are lit?

Other properties along this private track are > 360m from the CBT and all show as fibre not available in the checker.

In reply to a post by Taras:

any chance of some photos at least from your house to the pole that has the cbt and this box. Only suggesting this because we, i think struggling to see the issue(not your fault but there must a reason for the db flagged as it is )

Sure I'll grab some in a couple of hrs after work. Just pictures of the poles?

just the route of the box that splits in two directions, only asking for you do this, so that it eliminates anything that you may have missed or missed described, and thats easy to do.

As for the cbts being used, you will see a cable plugged in and the protective cap dangling.

If others on the private track cannot order then suggests possibly a way leave issue, i.e. may be way leave granted for repair of existing copper, but install of fibre is yet to be granted or was refused

Why do you need to know how many ports are lit ? For someone ‘learning the lingo’ you appear to be picking up some work specific slang ??

The kits are used as and when, with , I believe, no additional cost to the customer.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Why do you need to know how many ports are lit ?

Sorry, I think thats my fault as I raised an unknown factor with the OP about how many ports are lit and how many fttp enabled properties adjacent to the CBT's.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If others on the private track cannot order then suggests possibly a way leave issue, i.e. may be way leave granted for repair of existing copper, but install of fibre is yet to be granted or was refused

I agree, sadly I don't think its a database error as the CBT's are located at the beginning of a private track, a fair way down that track there are several properties located so surely if Openreach wanted to fttp enable those properties they would have located the CBT's on the existing poles on that private track rather than at the beginning.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If others on the private track cannot order then suggests possibly a way leave issue, i.e. may be way leave granted for repair of existing copper, but install of fibre is yet to be granted or was refused

I neglected to mention that the landowner is a notoriously awkward individual (being polite), and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he refused access.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Why do you need to know how many ports are lit ? For someone ‘learning the lingo’ you appear to be picking up some work specific slang ??

Yeah dect's fault. Saying that I am an electrical engineer and have a little experience running fibres around rigs, so the general concept is not beyond me

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The kits are used as and when, with , I believe, no additional cost to the customer.

Great, thanks.

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

Studying the lines with binoculars I can say that the line from my house goes into a junction box near my house, and then splits into two - one goes to the DP-22 pole, and the other goes in another direction. During one of my more productive calls with BT a helpful lady put me on hold for 40 mins while she made a load of enquiries and then came back and told me that I am not currently served from DP-22 and that's the problem. So the solution was to disconnect me and reconnect (on the same day all being well) via DP-22, with FTTP. She assured me someone would be in touch with me to confirm when they could do it. One month on, I've heard from no one and when I call BT there is no record of this discussion and we're back to computer says no.
Thanks.

Something about this doesn't seem right to me, it would imply that the junction box that feeds your house is served by two DP's which seems very strange to me considering you live down a private track, if thats really the case follow the cable that doesn't head towards DP22 and see where it goes as if the lady is correct you should end up at another DP.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

Studying the lines with binoculars I can say that the line from my house goes into a junction box near my house, and then splits into two - one goes to the DP-22 pole, and the other goes in another direction. During one of my more productive calls with BT a helpful lady put me on hold for 40 mins while she made a load of enquiries and then came back and told me that I am not currently served from DP-22 and that's the problem. So the solution was to disconnect me and reconnect (on the same day all being well) via DP-22, with FTTP. She assured me someone would be in touch with me to confirm when they could do it. One month on, I've heard from no one and when I call BT there is no record of this discussion and we're back to computer says no.
Thanks.

Something about this doesn't seem right to me, it would imply that the junction box that feeds your house is served by two DP's which seems very strange to me considering you live down a private track, if thats really the case follow the cable that doesn't head towards DP22 and see where it goes as if the lady is correct you should end up at another DP.

Hence why i suggest photos, so we know whats what. I do also think its a wayleave issue potentially.Assuming dp-22 is "short enough" to WFHonCopper's premises a wayleave may not be required. I also would presume, if the op is not connected to dp22, having him just chucked on there, would throw the contention and cbt ports to houses ratio out of the window. I sadly think the "BT lady" in question has just told him some misinformation

I took it to mean a DP fed by aerial cable, which feeds in, drops pairs off at the DP then carries further on into the network

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I took it to mean a DP fed by aerial cable, which feeds in, drops pairs off at the DP then carries further on into the network

You may be right.

OK! Here we go.

BTW many thanks to everyone for jumping in with your expertise.

I've been out for a bit more of a recce. My house has the star symbol on it. Existing aerial cables shown in blue, length of 'proposed' fibre shown...
https://thumbsnap.com/bKBYjvKa

DP22 is at the bottom of my track, the copper cables are underground and pop up here. As does the fibre. CBT on this pole with 4 outlets, all currently available.

At the other end of the track is DP60, the copper cables go underground again here. I couldn't see any evidence of DP60 being fibre enabled, but as it was in someone's garden and I was already being a weirdo with binoculars to get the DP no. I didn't want to further investigate. There are 3 houses obviously tied to this DP, and they're about 500m from DP22 so they're currently out of luck for FTTP by the sound of things. BTW I couldn't walk the full length of the cable as it goes through gardens etc. but I assume it goes right through from DP22 to DP60, does that sound reasonable?

Slightly further North along the main road is DP21. There is a cluster of houses here and another CBT, with 8 outlets on it, all currently unused. This would be the logical CBT for all the other rural properties I mentioned. I reckon there are 7 properties in range, so they don't need 'my' CBT.

The property right next to DP22 is able to get FTTP according to the checker. The question remains, who are the other three ports on DP22 for?

Also here is a pic from point A on the above map.

https://thumbsnap.com/SA29W24e

Unfortunately I doubt it really helps, the light was in the wrong place and it's tall. Anyway the line from my house goes into the grey JB and then splits into two. On further inspection I think they both go towards DP22, one as a separate line which is jointed in a few poles down and the other goes into the big black joint on the pole, which is connected to the main cable which goes in DP22's direction but also the same cable heads off to DP60 so it's feasible that I am fed from DP60 today... DP22 is to the right of the photo, DP60 to the left, house is away from the photographer.

Anyway, aren't there objectives for numbers of fibre enabled properties? Surely I'm a quick win!?

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Aug-20 19:32:11)

My first question, would be why is there cable going to two different DPs. If cables are buried, then, OR has an existing wayleave.

Does your property have two or more phone lines?

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

The property right next to DP22 is able to get FTTP according to the checker. The question remains, who are the other three ports on DP22 for?

A 4 port CBT is the smallest there is so the other 3 ports aren't necessarily for anyone.

Edit: can any other houses that surround point A on the map order FTTP?
If the property next to DP22 is the only 1 in your image that can order FTTP then it simply looks the network hasn't been built to you yet.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 26-Aug-20 21:07:29)

In reply to a post by Taras:

My first question, would be why is there cable going to two different DPs. If cables are buried, then, OR has an existing wayleave.

Does your property have two or more phone lines?

It doesn't...

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

The property right next to DP22 is able to get FTTP according to the checker. The question remains, who are the other three ports on DP22 for?

A 4 port CBT is the smallest there is so the other 3 ports aren't necessarily for anyone.

Edit: can any other houses that surround point A on the map order FTTP?
If the property next to DP22 is the only 1 in your image that can order FTTP then it simply looks the network hasn't been built to you yet.

Fair enough.

The property right next to DP22 is the only property which would be logically served by DP22 which can order FTTP - other nearby properties are closer to DP21. I am the only other property within 350m of DP22.

So does anyone have any further thoughts? Dry my eyes and continue with copper?

I have been advised elsewhere to try speaking to Zen, which I will when I get a clear half hour

Re 4 port CBT, I seem to have been given my own 4 port CBT in the manhole that my copper is fed underground to my house.

What is your post code. ?

Are you on ADSL2 ?.

Do you work from home ?.


PM sent .

Have you spoken to the land owner to try and find out if Openreach have been in contact? Can the land owner presuming they are local get FTTP?

You said in an earlier post that you thought 'Digital Scotland' may have funded the fibre upgrade (e.g. to the CBT on DP22), have you used their address checker to see what they say about yours and neighbouring addresses?

Find out for sure which dp you are on, and forget dp60 or dp40000. Find out if that dp has premises connected to do that dp. You will not be able to hope and jump DPs especially for fttp.

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

Have you spoken to the land owner to try and find out if Openreach have been in contact? Can the land owner presuming they are local get FTTP?

He doesn't live that close actually, and he doesn't even have a mobile phone, not interested in FTTP it is safe to say!

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Re 4 port CBT, I seem to have been given my own 4 port CBT in the manhole that my copper is fed underground to my house.

What is your post code. ?

Are you on ADSL2 ?.

Do you work from home ?.


PM sent .

Are you stalking me? PM not received, thankfully I think!

In reply to a post by dect:

You said in an earlier post that you thought 'Digital Scotland' may have funded the fibre upgrade (e.g. to the CBT on DP22), have you used their address checker to see what they say about yours and neighbouring addresses?

I think Mr Saffron suggested that and having dug a bit I am sure he's right. I have now applied for a £5k broadband voucher in lieu of superfast broadband (but have indicated that if someone could just run a 300m fibre down my drive it could be done a lot cheaper!). Thanks for the pointer!

In reply to a post by Taras:

Find out for sure which dp you are on, and forget dp60 or dp40000.

Do you have any advice on how to categorically determine this?

Not sure what you mean by DP40000.

In reply to a post by Taras:

Find out if that dp has premises connected to do that dp.

Sorry I don't know what you mean?

In reply to a post by Taras:

You will not be able to hope and jump DPs especially for fttp.

Do you know why that is?

Thanks.

Re..Are you stalking me? PM not received, thankfully I think!

When you receive a PM 'Forum Index' flashes at the top of the page.

I hope you will apologies for your very bad comments when you read the PM .

With the information I ask i was going to offer other ideas to get better Broadband.

FTTP is done in area's, people in the know may have access to what's going on in post code area.

Never been so insulted in all my 50 years being a Electrical Research Scientist, thanks you have upset an old person Thanks that's just what I wanted.

I will waste no more time trying to help you good bye.

Edited by APTMAN (Thu 27-Aug-20 22:56:30)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Re..Are you stalking me? PM not received, thankfully I think!

When you receive a PM 'Forum Index' flashes at the top of the page.

I hope you will apologies for your very bad comments when you read the PM .

With the information I ask i was going to offer other ideas to get better Broadband.

FTTP is done in area's, people in the know may have access to what's going on in post code area.

Never been so insulted in all my 50 years being a Electrical Research Scientist, thanks you have upset an old person Thanks that's just what I wanted.

I will waste no more time trying to help you good bye.

I didn't want to upset you APTMAN - I'm very sorry for that. It was meant as a bit of a joke as I don't want to put my postcode on a public forum (already posted enough for someone with OR maps to identify me quite easily I think).

I haven't received your PM though in all seriousness.

Apologies again to have upset you and I hope you have a nice day.

In reply to a post by WFHonCopper:

I think Mr Saffron suggested that and having dug a bit I am sure he's right. I have now applied for a £5k broadband voucher in lieu of superfast broadband

I think in that instance I would get a fttpod survey done once you have exhausted the possibility of native fttp.