Install to new home with no BT socket

We're moving to an (almost) new home and will want FTTP. Currently there is currently no BT socket as the builder didn't believe "people wanted landlines any more".

What is the quickest/cheapest/easiest way to get service? AIUI a new voice line is 15 working days to install but a new fiber install could take much longer.

I've heard that Openreach are stopping installing new copper lines so if we place an order for a voice line do they just install fiber which gets us the FTTP install quicker and cheaper? No, thought not...

For reference Openreach recently installed FTTP to the area, the fiber tails are hanging on the pole in the street and they recognise the address as being one they can install to.

Just go for FTTP.

Having just ordered and it is under 20 working days. Suffer with mobile for voice and limited data until then.

If you order a copper line you get a copper line.

If you order full fibre you get full fibre.

Nowhere has stopped selling copper services yet. They can still be ordered if available.

1 doesn't necessarily take longer than the other. Local workforce demands will dictate how long each will take to install.

If there's no master socket then both types of install may need a home engineer visit.

Some new builds have access to FTTP only and will never be able to order a copper line.

Some ISP's sell FTTP as data only.
Some ISP's also sell a voice service over FTTP.
Some ISP's sell data over FTTP and Voice over a copper pair.

What you order depends on what your want and which ISP you choose.
Options are extremely flexible.

Thanks, that is helpful. So on a new install ordering FTTP won't also get us a voice line unless the provider decides to offer a SIP-style product with it, that makes sense.

There isn't an existing BT duct into the property so I guess they're going to have to dig up the driveway to install one. Would that affect the choice of provider or install cost/options?

In reply to a post by cng1:

Thanks, that is helpful. So on a new install ordering FTTP won't also get us a voice line unless the provider decides to offer a SIP-style product with it, that makes sense.

With FTTP you can use VOIP which would give you a landline type phone number. If you port an existing landline number to VOIP you can then use it anywhere that you have a connection to the internet.

In reply to a post by cng1:

There isn't an existing BT duct into the property so I guess they're going to have to dig up the driveway to install one.

What was the developer thinking? Brain dead or just about the extra few pounds profit!

Did he bother with water and electricity connections?

If the FTTP infrastructure is on a pole then you'll get an overhead install

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by cng1:

There isn't an existing BT duct into the property so I guess they're going to have to dig up the driveway to install one.

What was the developer thinking? Brain dead or just about the extra few pounds profit!

Did he bother with water and electricity connections?

+1

PSTN services are being turned off by Openreach in the not far distant future. December 2025. Copper phone lines won't work.

See what the providers offer when looking at their FTTP products. AIUI you can take phone services from anyone, but maybe some want to tie you in like they do with xDSL.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 20-Dec-20 12:59:51)

Out of interest, RobertoS, do you know how broadband will be provided to houses that have no fibre connection in 2025?

how broadband will be provided to houses that have no fibre connection in 2025?

The same as now?

Very helpful! How is that please?

Nothing changes to broadband in 2025

its only voice over copper thats being discontinued not all copper services

In reply to a post by mikejp:

Out of interest, RobertoS, do you know how broadband will be provided to houses that have no fibre connection in 2025?

Over the copper wires. Only the voice service is planned to stop. Those whom want a traditional "landline" will end up plugging the phone into the back of their ISP supplied router, often known as a "hub".

Whilst currently BT provides my Voice Circuit and Andrews & Arnold provide my broadband via VDSL, should OR pull the plug on Voice over Copper before I am connected (if ever) to FTTP, what will BT do with our allocated phone number?

Do I have to jump the gun and port our phone number to a VoIP provider and then connect either a VoIP adaptor into my router, or will BT be providing an adaptor, with our existing number for the same purpose?

Should FTTP become available here before the switch off date, whilst I still have BT's voice service, I can at least port my phone number to a VoIP provider and cancel my BT service since FTTP will be supplied by Andrews & Arnold.

I think!

I believe your questions will be answered before 2025, there are a few years to go. Ofcom likes the fact that you can have broadband and telephone services from different people, so I assume the regulator will ensure this can remain.

Others have answered .

It'll be a long time before FTTC and G.Fast are wound down.

There's a huge amount of expensive kit in exchanges that is required by PSTN, and not only that but their fibre services more often than not come from a headend exchange elsewhere. Relatively few exchanges "providing" FTTC actually have the fibre terminations in them.

So it isn't just the phone kit with its maintenance and repairs could go, but the whole exchange with its considerable overheads. Building, heating, lighting, insurance, general upkeep and I expect rates. A nice plot of land to sell to developers in most cases,

We sometimes see exchange photographs on these forums of small exchanges miles from any major populated area. Even the travel cost (vehicular and man-time) to a phone fault is out of proportion to the revenue. Given that the copper line itself still attracts rental income if there is FTTC/xDSL.

Don't forget that A & A already have a highly regarded VOIP product Clive. AIUI you could switch to it now with your existing number.

Though I wouldn't recommend it. It's nice to know your phone may still work if your broadband goes down.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 20-Dec-20 20:32:38)

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Do I have to jump the gun and port our phone number to a VoIP provider and then connect either a VoIP adaptor into my router, or will BT be providing an adaptor, with our existing number for the same purpose?

There will be no POTS and i can't see BT selling/running a VOIP service over another providers broadband.

If by BT you mean OpenReach then no they won't be providing any special adapters.
OpenReach don't want to handle the voice part which is why they scrapped ONT's with ATA (telephone) ports.

I can't see anything changing with the current plans.
VOIP and broadband via a single hub will be what the majority who want a landline will take.

It will be up to you the customer to either buy a bundled broadband and VOIP service, or a separate broadband and separate VOIP service.

should OR pull the plug on Voice over Copper before I am connected (if ever) to FTTP, what will BT do with our allocated phone number?

It will make little difference whether FTTP has reached you yet or not.

On both FTTP and FTTC it will be up to you to buy a bundled broadband/VOIP service, or separate services.

That's going to be the case for the majority.

For the few FTTP users with a 4 port ONT, they could order a dedicated VOIP service on a dedicated port on the ONT.
OpenReach sell? or will sell a very low bandwidth FTTP service intended for VOIP only.
Some people on FTTP with a single port ONT will be able to order a 2nd ONT, but CBT port and splitter capacity means this won't be an option for most.

In short, for you...

when the time comes you can take your landline number to your current ISP via VOIP, use a 3rd party VOIP provider or migrate to a bundled service from another provider.

Your current voice provider BT will definitely be selling Voice only services (VOIP) but they may only choose to do this via the low bandwidth OpenReach product described above.
That would require a 2nd pair, 2nd ONT or 4 port ONT, if you are keeping the AAISP line.

IMO none of the current big POTS landline providers will offer VOIP over someone else's broadband and well leave that to dedicated VOIP providers.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

IMO none of the current big POTS landline providers will offer VOIP over someone else's broadband and well leave that to dedicated VOIP providers.

Just as now really since Ofcom stopped them advertising the unbundled products with small print about line/call costs.

I think Plusnet may still be willing to provide (new connections of) broadband on BT Consumer lines. I was able to migrate my line away from BT to Pulse8 when I was on Plusnet FTTC.

When I moved home, I took the opportunity to migrate my number to A&A and allowed BT to allocate a new number for the new line. I’ve never given the BT number to anyone, but the line is active and I can use it if the VoIP is ever unavailable. Thankfully it didn’t affect the cost of the BT broadband, and in the two years since moving I have not had any downtime so paid nothing for calls on that line.

I’m using a Fritz!Box 7490 for VoIP, paired directly with a set of Grandstream DECT phones. The Fritz!Box is configured to sync the phonebook with iCloud, so I get all my contacts on my iPhone automatically appear on the DECT handsets to the benefit of caller ID. It’s a great solution, if only because my family has no idea: it just works!

when you say the fibre tails are hanging on the poles, does that mean that the infrastructure is not yet fully connected and working. have any neighbours already got a fttp connection

It's all terminated on the poles ready for them to cable up the houses. BT and others recognise the address and will accept a service order but to my knowledge none of the immediate neighbours serviced by that pole have yet done so.

OK when you said hanging on the poles I thought you meant just coils of cable. so you have a CBT at the top of a nearby pole that the service will be connected to

Edited by threelegs (Mon 21-Dec-20 15:18:28)

One reason the developer didn't get BT to do an install when he was building is that he didn't want a pole. For some reason it didn't occur to him to lay a duct for Openreach when he got the other utilities in.

In reply to a post by cng1:

One reason the developer didn't get BT to do an install when he was building is that he didn't want a pole. For some reason it didn't occur to him to lay a duct for Openreach when he got the other utilities in.

I'm confused.
Previously you said..

For reference Openreach recently installed FTTP to the area, the fiber tails are hanging on the pole in the street and they recognise the address as being one they can install to.

Where is the pole with the fibre tail situated in relation to your property?
How far is it and can a single length of cable reach your property without any additional poles being needed?

If you search the address on https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL does it show WBC FTTP available?
If so at the bottom does it say anything about FTTP network service information? overhead/underground or anticipated issues?

For example my property states

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed Not Evaluated.

Where is the pole with the fibre tail situated in relation to your property?
How far is it and can a single length of cable reach your property without any additional poles being needed?

The pole is in the street outside the property, perhaps 10-15 meters away. The builder didn't want an overhead cable coming into the property from the pole - why he didn't lay a duct instead is lost in the mists of time.

If you search the address on https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL does it show WBC FTTP available?

Yes, it is available. In the details it notes:

The premise/line is associated with exchange which is NOT part of current fibre priority programme.

The premise/line is associated with exchange where WLR is not withdrawn.

The premise/line is associated with exchange where SOADSL service is restricted.

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed potential Line of sight problems.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

Looks like any new Openreach service will be provided overhead from an existing pole, is there a tree between the property and the existing pole which could cause a line of sight issue?

Edited by deleted (Mon 21-Dec-20 22:17:24)

Potential line of sight problems doesn't sound great. Your property will indeed be fed overhead.
They wouldn't install the final drop from the pole to the property until a service was ordered so the builder never had anything to worry about there.

Does it look like there could be any issues going in a straight line from this pole to a high point on your property?
I've seen random line of sight warnings before with absolutely nothing in the way.

My property says UG feed not evaluated, despite me having FTTP installed already. It should say something along the lines of UG proven clear.

The crazy thing is that by not putting in ducting the developer almost guaranteed the poles he didn't want.

Something very odd there.

+ 1 the whole situation is confusing me, the developers story doesn’t add up. If you don’t want cables you route underground.

It could be the OP was told this by the house seller, and it's garbage. (As in "a friend of a friend told me etc."). It is a "nearly" new house, so the developer may be long gone.

Even odder that planning permission was given. AIUI underground supply is required by most councils.

Unless of course this isn't a new estate, but is an inbuild property. Where communications ducting would not be cost-effective for the builder. Almost FTTPoD territory until the apparent native one appeared. Which takes us back to the questions about the available ports on the pole.

As we have seen others post, Openreach priorities can change, with headend exchange connection being a long time after the pole installations.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 22-Dec-20 14:25:25)

It is indeed infill property rather than a new estate. It was a self-build which probably accounts for the disconnect between what any sane developer would do and what was actually built. Fiber wasn't available in the area when they started building and has only been installed on the street in the last 6 months or so which I suspect may have paid a part in the reasoning not to bother with a duct.

The pole feeding the house also feeds the neighbouring properties. There aren't any trees so there is direct line of sight to the house but the path to the neighbouring houses may well be obstructed by ours. I suspect the survey data they use may be a little crude and they mark all the properties as being potentially obstructed just to cover themselves.