Windows 10 power management reducing Fibre speed

I have just taken 900 MBPS fibre to the premises and can log (by wire to the router) 887 with Ubuntu but only about 300 with Windows 10. Zen, my ISP, says there is a problem with the power management in the current build of W10. They say they have noticed this during this month.

Does anyone else have this problem, and, possibly, a solution, please

Presume testing is with the same machine either running Ubuntu as W10? I’ve got the odd box running W10 and not noticed any power management / save issues with any recent updates per se. These boxes run 24/7.

What’s the adapter make? Check network performance again once you toggle Large Send Offload on the advanced adapter settings in W10.

Are you running any other third-party firewall, AV or VPN software under W10 or is the machine vanilla? All these can have a significant impact on network throughout.

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 24-Apr-21 08:54:35)

With such a vague answer from Zen it's hard to know what they mean. They might be talking about Energy-Efficient Ethernet. If so, it looks like this is something you can control in Windows: see here and here. I don't have any Windows machine, so I can't check those settings.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

a solution, please

Get rid of Win10 and use PCLinuxOS

Thank you very much candlerb for your prompt and helpful response. Both your references took me to the same spot where I found that there was no "Power Management" tab on the properties of either my wireless or ethernet devices. But thank you. That is what Zen were pointing to. I have, of course written to them asking them what they propose.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

That is what Zen were pointing to. I have, of course written to them asking them what they propose.

OK, but I'm afraid it's not really their problem if you don't have a PC capable of using a gigabit connection.

There have been some good suggestions made by others: firstly uninstall any third-party antivirus or security packages, and if that doesn't work then buy a different network interface card (Intel NICs work well, and a basic Intel PCIe NIC can be had for under £20)

Realy need to know what NIC card is?
On my system I have 2
Intel I211 Gigabit Nework Connect (1Gb)
Realtek PCIe 2.5GbE (2.5Gb)

Also can some times (no so much now) but what is motherboard model, if you know?

I know that doing 300Mb so that could suggest to me using USB2 to Ethernet connection.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-Gigabit-Ethernet-C...

If you've ever had Hamachi VPN software installed on your machine, it makes some naughty changes to the Windows network settings which have the effect of drastically reducing throughput.

I just got Zen 900 and similarly was much disappointed by performance. Though likewise, it affected windows but not Ubuntu on same laptop.

After a bit of digging, my PCs turn out to have some disabled TCP tuning options. (Receive side scaling and receive window autotuning)

A bit of further digging, and I found many complaints of similar linked to Hamachi, and it deciding to disable these in a way which persists even after uninstalling!

If anyone wants to see the state of these settings; from administrator command prompt:

netsh interface tcp show global

If they are disabled, the fixes are:

netsh interface tcp set global rss=enabled

and:

netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal


I cannot vouch for whether Hamachi is well behaved with these settings turned back on in all scenarios. It seems to at least work for me here, but they’ve obviously disabled them for some reason. Maybe there are situations where their network driver doesn’t function correctly with them enabled. ☹

The thread about this at Logmein’s forum is here:

https://community.logmein.com/t5/LogMeIn-Hamachi-Dis...

I'm sure there may well be other software out there that pokes bits it shouldn't do in the Windows networking stack...

Re: Power management; you could test with the mains connected, and change the power profile on your laptop to performance instead of whatever mode it is in.

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

I know that doing 300Mb so that could suggest to me using USB2 to Ethernet connection.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-Gigabit-Ethernet-C...

Don't even think about a USB2 to ethernet adaptor. Whilst the theoretical *peak* speed of USB2 is 480Mbps, achievable throughput is lower than that.

If this is a desktop PC then you want a PCIe NIC. For a laptop, then Thunderbolt to ethernet is best, and failing that, USB3 to ethernet. (Beware that there are some fake brands out there that advertise themselves as "USB3", and even have the USB3 connector colour, but are actually USB2)

Thank you very much Pheasant for your prompt response and helpful suggestions.
Unfortunately there is no “Large Send Offload” option on my adaptors where you suggest, although I can see the logic in following Zen’s advice.
Yes, I do have both Bitdefender and Malwarebytes running but saw no change when I switched both off.
Not that it is related to what you suggested but I noticed when doing tests that there is an incorrect balance on the PC between download and up load speeds. The upload speeds are substantially more: About 60:100. As that is not the case with the speeds at the same point on the iPhone, I conclude that it is the download speeds not the upload speeds which are being choked by Windows 10.

Thank you very much amiga-dude for your prompt response and helpful suggestions.
The details of my network adaptors (I am using a Microsoft Surfbook 2) are:
- Marvell AVASTAR Wireless-AC Network Controller
- TAP-Windows Adapter V9
I am afraid I do not immediately have the motherboard model.
As the Ubuntu was using the same ethernet connection (and adapters for that matter) and getting 887, I do not think those would be the problem.
I was running Ubunto off a stick

Thank you very much jimbof for your prompt response and helpful suggestions.
I had never heard of Hamachi and have looked it up.
I last used Logmein before I had the current PC so I think I am clear of that. But, as you say, there may be other problems caused in a similar way.
However my other W10 PC is newer and has not done anything exciting in its life but it still has the same problems.
I did look at altering W10 power management settings but, as it all seemed to be a question of degree, I could not see the point. Again the newer PC has the same problem – but with different settings as it is a desktop.
I have asked Zen to be more specific about their advice and wait hearing from them.
On the subject of VPNs’, Bitdefender has come out with one which is not a slower connection.

Well, if you know how to open an administrator command prompt, you could do worse than checking that >something< hasn't set those options to a sub-optimal state.

From administrator command prompt:

netsh interface tcp show global

Out of interest, what ethernet interface are you using that doesn't have the "large send offload" options?

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Yes, I do have both Bitdefender and Malwarebytes running but saw no change when I switched both off.

Switching off doesn't remove their software from deep in the internals of Windows. It just stops it flagging if it finds something they don't like. For this test you have to uninstall and reboot.

Make sure you note down any licence keys for any subscriptions.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

The details of my network adaptors (I am using a Microsoft Surfbook 2) are:
- Marvell AVASTAR Wireless-AC Network Controller
- TAP-Windows Adapter V9

Do you mean "Surface Book 2"? That doesn't even have a wired ethernet connector AFAICS. "TAP" is a virtual interface only.

You're very unlikely to reach gigabit speeds over wireless, despite what manufacturers' numbers say. You *might* on certain very carefully tuned configurations of 802.11ac - if both AP and laptop support MIMO and are configured for 80/160MHz channels. See wikipedia.

In my setup with Unifi AC Lite and Macbook Pro 2015 13", I have a theoretical "peak" 867Mbps, but that translates to about 400-450Mbps throughput in practice (when talking via wireless to a local wired server).

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Do you mean "Surface Book 2"? That doesn't even have a wired ethernet connector AFAICS.

To get one you need the Surface Dock which connects to the propitiatory Surface Port on the side. This is then a full GigE connector.

Alternatively a USB-C 3.1 to Ethernet adaptor may work at the higher speeds.

Am using a 100 Meg FTTP connection but want to try and help if I can.

I actually get about 108-110 down myself, switch off energy efficient Ethernet as advised.

It may well be worth seeing if there's a NIC driver update but I'd imagine Zen will have explored this themselves.

If you access the properties for your wired LAN connection, it does indicate it's connected at 1 Gbps doesn't it?

Ultimately it's down to MS to fix, make sure you have all cumulative updates installed.

OP said "...and can log (by wire to the router) 887 with Ubuntu but only about 300 with Windows 10"

887Mbps down is about 94% of possible GbE throughput and near enough the rated FTTP service speed. It has to be wired.

Thanks jimbof.
I ran “netsh interface tcp show global” and found that “Receive side scaling” was “enabled” and “Receive window autotuning” was “normal”.
The ethernet adapter is TAP-Windows Adapter V9

Tx. I have sent support requests to both firms.

Thanks candlerb.
TAP-Windows Adapter V9 Windows shown as being used.
The Surfbook can be connected to a router via an ethernet cable either by using a cable with a USB plug or to the ethernet port in its docking station.
I am getting 300 MBPS over wireless on the Surfbook close to the router.
There is a 400 MBPS 2.4 Ghz limit on this router. You can go higher at 5 Ghz.

Tx techguy.

Zen came on to the router via the internet and confirmed the 1 GBPS as you suggested.

I have left a feedback for Msft.

Windows updates all installed.

Are you running the original Surface Dock or the second generation?

Had a search and there have been earlier reports of network speed issues on the first generation dock in this article

You may want to check that you are running the most up to date firmware on the dock and W10 drivers

See for example:

1. Surface Dock 1 firmware update instructions from Microsoft and link to files here

2. The cumulative and current firmware and drivers for the Surface Dock 2 here

Looks like both were last updated on Friday.

Tx Canlerb.

Using 2bn generation. As you say, first had problems. It was underpowered. I will update the firmware. Tx for the tip.

Should have made clear, I also used (instead) the cable adapter, the cable with an Ethernet plug at one end and a USB plug at the other.

Ad Ubuntu got 887 through the dock, I ruled it out.

I am afraid it is Zen’s problem for not mentioning the problem which they have admitted they knew about affecting Windows 10 when selling a service that they said would provide a 900 download speed into a market heavily if not largely populated by Windows 10.

How do you fit a network card to laptop?

Zen (or for that matter any other ISP) have no control, influence, contractual or otherwise responsibility (other than perhaps giving you some hints and tips, which again are not binding on them) over what you connect to their service.

The harsh practical and legal reality is that your own home network and your devices are wholly and solely up to you.

The ISP responsibility starts and finishes at their network handover point - the rest is up to you. Whether you perceive the market to be heavily dominated by W10 is of no consequence really.

I am afraid it is a simple matter of contract law. ISPs like the rest of us have to leve with it.

You cannot make false representations

In reply to a post by JMaples:

I am afraid it is a simple matter of contract law.

Yes, and you demonstrated in your OP (by using Ubuntu) that Zen have fulfilled their side of the contract by providing a service that meets the advertised claims.

That your preferred choice of system is one that cannot cope with it is your problem, not Zen's.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

I am afraid it is a simple matter of contract law. ISPs like the rest of us have to leve with it.

You cannot make false representations

The ISP is responsible for getting the speed to the router that they provide.

You are responsible for your own equipment not being powerful enough.

The issue isn't with Windows. It is an issue with YOUR installation of Windows.
Windows is more than capable of delivering 900Mbps.

According to Zen it is a Windows10 power management problem so not particular to me. It was something Zen were aware of when selling me their product. They should have disclosed what they knew instead of keeping silent and taking the money.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Using 2bn generation. As you say, first had problems. It was underpowered. I will update the firmware. Tx for the tip.

Should have made clear, I also used (instead) the cable adapter, the cable with an Ethernet plug at one end and a USB plug at the other.

Ad Ubuntu got 887 through the dock, I ruled it out.

Ok second generation dock. Check the firmware and drivers and update as necessary.

Did you run W10 and Ubuntu based tests with both style of connections - that is connected via the Ethernet port in the dock and connected via the USB Ethernet adapter?

I should add, before any more ISP defenders take up their pens, that the Zen engineer accepted the point. He just said that he was not responsible for writing the sales literature.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

According to Zen it is a Windows10 power management problem so not particular to me. It was something Zen were aware of when selling me their product. They should have disclosed what they knew instead of keeping silent and taking the money.

Ah, so because it was said by 1 numpty in an ISP call centre who had about 10 minutes of training, it must be true.

If you turn off Windows power management does it fix it?
What, no it doesn't?
Then it isn't a Windows power management issue.

It isn't an issue that affects all installations of Windows. There are dozens of users in these forums with gigabit using Windows.

I'm far from an ISP defender.
Older and cheaper PC's and laptops just tend to be too slow to run gigabit services using Windows.
You own that equipment so it's your responsibility.

Put your dummy back in.

Tx.

I ran the W10 wired connection through both the dock and the cable adapter and there was no difference in speed.

I did not run the Ubuntu wired connection through the cable adaptor as well as the dock as I didn't see the point. If it worked through the dock and the W10 wired connection didn't and didn't work through the cable adaptor what would finding that the Ubuntu wired connection did or did not work through the cable have added?

Ther seems little point in continuing this conversation if you are going to be abusive. I look forward to an apology to myself and the Zen engineer who seemed very experienced and had attended a meeting about the Windows 10 power mangement issue. Otherewise I shall report the post.

Zen is one of the better ISPs and has acknowledged the problem. I did not join this forum to abuse Zen. I joined to see if anyone had a solution and am grateful for the suggestions put forward.

This is likely to be a problem with a recent build of Windows 10 and as someone else said is likley to get sorted by Msft in time.

You cannot simply turn off Windows 10 power managament, You can only adjust it up or down.

The engineer tested the specs of my laptop and found them adequate.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Zen is one of the better ISPs and has acknowledged the problem.

They acknowledged a problem with Windows, *not* with their service.

Your machine would have the same problem regardless of which ISP you went with. Are you saying that all ISPs should stop selling gigabit Internet services, just because your Windows machine is not capable of consuming a gigabit? Or do you want them to put a disclaimer saying "warning, some consumer devices are not capable of consuming a gigabit"? If they had done so, would that have changed your purchasing decision?

If you want to get mad with anyone, get mad with Microsoft. After all, they provided both the hardware and software. But you can only get mad with them after you have uninstalled all third-party software - because the chances are, it's one of these third-party packages which is causing the problem. Ideally reinstall Windows afresh.

Is it Microsoft's fault that they permitted you to install rubbish third-party software? Would you rather they blocked all non-approved software? Then use Windows 10 S.

Ubuntu demonstrates that with decent software, that hardware will perform just fine. But only you can sort out your machine - Zen cannot.

As a networking guru once told me: "we just build the highway, we don't fix your car".

Edited by candlerb (Sun 25-Apr-21 11:12:13)

If you set power management to high performance it turns off everything that would slow down your network card.
If you go in to the advanced section of power management you can see where you can set the thresholds for CPU and network card power management, both of which go to 100% when set to high performance.

If you set the power profile to high and the issue persists then that isn't what is causing your issue.

There's have been dozens of threads on these forums like yours where the issue has been slow speeds on an installation of Windows.

It isn't a specific Windows problem.
It doesn't affect every installation of Windows.
If you tried your connection on a more powerful computer or perhaps with a different network adapter then you may not have the issue.

Nobody knows what your issue is. It could be the CPU, network card, some other piece of hardware, some software, or just a configuration issue.

Either way it is your issue and not Zens.

I haven't broke any rules, report my post all you like.
If you don't like my response then tough, I'm not here to please you or to give you the answer you want.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 25-Apr-21 11:01:01)

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Tx.

I ran the W10 wired connection through both the dock and the cable adapter and there was no difference in speed.

I did not run the Ubuntu wired connection through the cable adaptor as well as the dock as I didn't see the point. If it worked through the dock and the W10 wired connection didn't and didn't work through the cable adaptor what would finding that the Ubuntu wired connection did or did not work through the cable have added?

Simply trying to ascertain if the issue is common to both adapters (something affecting wider windows or network settings) or particular to one adapter (a driver or firmware issue).

Ubuntu generally gives the ‘cleanest’ bandwidth speed test results - hence decent baseline of the respective adapter and the system as a whole (hardware wise).

The Surface hardware and Dock v2 are both capable of delivering gigabit -not sure about the USB adapter - hence why I’m asking and secondly to ascertain where to look next in Windows if the firmware and driver updates don’t resolve it.

Hi Jmaples

As a rule Windows 10 is not setup for a gigabit connection

Google a tools called tcp optimizer select the 100+ connection tab and let it make the changes to your computer settings. Restart and you should be just fine on the windows machine.

Hope this helps!

No, the engineer said that, had he been responsible for writing the selling material, he would have mentioned what was a known issue. And, yes, I would not have paid for 900 only to get 300. Would you? I would have bought whatever lesser speed they could actually provide to me. I still have my EE4G network and receive the full download speed I was told to expect, about 60 GBPS. I am moving because their mast stops working from time time - and once for over a month. I have been with them for about 5 years but had to have a low speed FTTC back up which I have now cancelled.

I am not getting mad at anyone. Zen have made a mistake and just need to put it right. It may be that none if their fibre broad speeds are currently capable of being received in full by the current build of Windows 10. It may be that the sensible compromise will be that I simply pay for what they can deliver. It may be that they will simply want to hand the money back and call it quits. It may be that they will be able to point out the problem to Microsoft and it will be rectified.

There is no point about getting mad about it.

Please try my suggestion. It will work.

Really!? What rule would that be, as I seemed to have broken it repeatedly without any effort - and all without the help of some random “TCP optimiser”.

Jeez it’s not even April 1 🤣

Some applications manipulate registry settings to suit there own requirements. Often it’s the one that decides how many multiple connections that windows can make. I tend to find for people reporting speed of 250 - 350 it’s set to 2. TCP optimizer sets it to 10. It fixed my issues.

In reply to a post by deviousiphone:

Some applications manipulate registry settings to suit there own requirements. Often it’s the one that decides how many multiple connections that windows can make. I tend to find for people reporting speed of 250 - 350 it’s set to 2. TCP optimizer sets it to 10. It fixed my issues.

Not needed on a clean factory install of Windows, so I suspect some broken third party security software. Third party security software is now becoming the problem, even blocking Microsoft's security updates and making the computer less secure.

Completely agree. All tcp optimiser does is restore things to default settings.

I had the same problem as the poster when I upgraded to 1 gig Speedtest was stuck at around 280. I am an analyst by trade so obviously did further digging and solved my problem.

I was however able to replicate on my brothers laptop when he moved in with me.

Was literally down to registry settings.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

- Marvell AVASTAR Wireless-AC Network Controller
- TAP-Windows Adapter V9

Intersting you say about that. You also but there no meation of you network cable connection. Now I going say something that could be dead end but go with it for moment.

On SB2 on Windows browser go to google and type in What my ip and make note of that IP. Then do very same thing on SB2 but this time with Ubuntu webbrowser. Is that pubic IP the same?

Don't publish the IP on thinkbroadband I am just curious if they are same.

Just following your helpful suggestion to update firmware on Surface Dock 2 and found that the update is for the first version of the Dock because , "Surface Dock 2 ... receives updates automatically via Windows Update or by using Microsoft Endpoint Configuration Manager or other MSI deployment tools. " See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/surface-doc...

But tx for the tip. I appreciate that that information was a bit far in to spot.

The real question is what software had you and your brother both installed that screwed up your W10 network settings so badly?

As said, a clean/vanilla install of W10 (on sufficient hardware / decent NIC) will easily handle gigabit connections without adding further tuning software or messing with the registry.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Just following your helpful suggestion to update firmware on Surface Dock 2 and found that the update is for the first version of the Dock because , "Surface Dock 2 ... receives updates automatically via Windows Update or by using Microsoft Endpoint Configuration Manager or other MSI deployment tools. " See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/surface-doc...

But tx for the tip. I appreciate that that information was a bit far in to spot.

What firmware version is your dock running?

Edit:

Microsoft Surface Update History (all devices) is summarised here.

Current Surface Dock 2 driver version looks to be 20.054.xxxxx.0 or 20.062.26674.0 (for WMI support) based on this update page

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 25-Apr-21 17:34:42)

In reply to a post by deviousiphone:

I was however able to replicate on my brothers laptop when he moved in with me.

I wonder if both your laptops came from a retail company that pre-installed some security product?? The names McAfee or Norton spring to mind.

18.1730.368.0 DP: 18.1640.368.0

In reply to a post by JMaples:

18.1730.368.0 DP: 18.1640.368.0

See my (edited) post above - these don't look to be current driver version to me.

Try downloading and running the appropriate MSI from the Surface Dock 2 Firmware and Drivers page

I did that and there was no change

Tx. I tried but it actually reduced the speed and I had to restore the settings

Alright but when using Windows findout what is IP that Google reporting when search for What my IP
Then on same system do the same thing but using Ubuntu and then it that IP, is that the same IP number which google reported as when using Windows?

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+my+ip

Tx. Since my last email I have worked out how to suspend Bitlocker which was stopping me booting W 10 in safe mode with networking. There I have found that I get the same results as with Ubuntu. That was the first choice of the Zen engineer but he did not know how to suspend Bitlocker.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Tx. Since my last email I have worked out how to suspend Bitlocker which was stopping me booting W 10 in safe mode with networking. There I have found that I get the same results as with Ubuntu. That was the first choice of the Zen engineer but he did not know how to suspend Bitlocker.

Well you've obviously made a mistake when you have been doing that as you are adamant it is a Windows 10 problem. I think you need to go back a repeat the test in the hope that you get the slower speeds again so that you can be proved right . . . .

. . . . or you could change the switch from transmit to receive and take advantage of the freely offered advice and expertise from many people around these parts who are well-respected industry professionals who have long track records of offering first-class help and suggestions.

I am not sure how much of the story you have followed but it was the Zen engineer who told me that it was a problem with W10 Power Management and asked me to connect in Safe Mode so that he show me that was the case. We came up against Bitlocker in trying to do that so he made load up Ubuntu to prove his point instead – which he did. Getting round Bitlocker has just proved his point again – not disproved it as you seem to think. I was reporting it because a forum member was asking about an aspect of the Ubuntu connection which, I assume, he thought might lead somewhere, whereas it is now clear that Ubuntu is not relevant.
Which is the piece of advice so far offered by a forum member which you think solves the problem of the slowed speed in W10?

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Tx. Since my last email I have worked out how to suspend Bitlocker which was stopping me booting W 10 in safe mode with networking. There I have found that I get the same results as with Ubuntu. That was the first choice of the Zen engineer but he did not know how to suspend Bitlocker.

That's progress. So you are getting full FTTP speed booting into safe mode? If so this directly points to some other software or driver that is loaded during normal operation....

The usual suspects will be third-party security apps including antivirus, firewall and VPN apps. As you've said previously that you have Bitdefender and Malwarebytes, I would start by completely uninstalling these programs and rebooting and checking things again.

It's a process of elimination.

Yes. I had disabled Bitdefender and Malwarebytes but found no change.
As you will know a forum member had suggested uninstalling Bitdefender and Malwarebytes but, before taking that drastic step, I had, as I reported, written to both companies.
B came back quickly with the suggestion that I run in Safe mode - which is why I looked for the way round Bitlocker and did that. I then wrote to Bitdefender asking if, as Safe mode showed speed restored, whether I should indeed uninstall.
The reply has been to suggest an adjustment in the B settings. However, the instructions to do that do not work and I am currently waiting further advice.
Still, that does look promising.
Malwarebytes have begun their investigation and asked me to run an investigation program which I have done.
Of course none of this is relevant to W10 Power Management which is what Zen said the problem was. Zen have not come back yet but I have kept them informed of relevant developments, the most interesting one being - I thought - that the uploads are significantly faster than the downloads.
That does seem to point to choking on the incoming rather than the outgoing and to the security programs.

If I was in your position, I would take a backup of all my critical data and just bite the bullet and re-image the machine from scratch. Sounds drastic, but you will start with a clean sheet - and then only add back exactly what programs you need.

Sometimes it's the cleanest and most expedient solution.

Good luck with it.

Tx. I understand what you mean. I was a user of the earliest laptops in my work and am no stranger to complete reinstalls. But I do not think we are there yet. I have two entirely different modern and fast W10 PCs which have the same problem. Both are kept fully up to date with all program updates. Zen are of the view that the problem lies in the current W10 build. So reinstalling it will not solve the problem.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Zen are of the view that the problem lies in the current W10 build.

Are they aware than Win10 has been modified by two third party security products? It is no longer as the vendor (Microsoft) has designed?

Zen did not ask about security programs. That is not surprising as they were already of the view that problem lay in the current build of W10. Zen spent an hour and a half on the phone and went into many questions but security programs was not one of them. It is unlikely that Zen would have assumed that I did not have any. Everyone does these days.
But the security programs may be the problem and Zen may be wrong.

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Zen did not ask about security programs. That is not surprising as they were already of the view that problem lay in the current build of W10. Zen spent an hour and a half on the phone and went into many questions but security programs was not one of them. It is unlikely that Zen would have assumed that I did not have any. Everyone does these days.
But the security programs may be the problem and Zen may be wrong.

One thing I'd say is Zen are not an IT support company, I contract for a company that supports over 24,000 users and they've not come across this issue and they support multi gigabit connections.

I have just run a test on my desktop PC as it always runs the latest Windows 10 build/updates.
I enabled the Power Settings and I got exactly the same result on a speed test which is was 630Mbps.
For reference I'm on the Virgin Media M600 package.

Thanks Dan

I think the OP has been sold a bit of a red herring on the W10 powersave ‘issue’ / windows updates issue.

I’m running a couple of W10 boxes, all patched and running latest w10 build and patch and none of them have trouble saturating a gigabit link.

He’s proven hardware on the surface box with both Ubuntu and running in safe mode. His other W10 boxes are displaying similar issues, therefore it it was me, I’d be focussing attention on the security programs. There’s reports about for example of Bitdefender 2019/2020 screwing up throughout on network gigabit links. Full uninstall (and reinstall) being the resolution.

Thanks very much, Dan. Very helpful.

Did you actually disable Windows 10 power settings or just turn them right down?

I have been unable to find out how to completely disabled them?

It doesn't matter what I set them to.
Any changes to them still result in the same speed test result.

Thanks Dan

What a load of tosh.

By using a different o/s, YOU have proved that your isp IS supplying what you pay for.

I use an old laptop with 2.4 GHz (802.11g) and can't get the full speed I pay for.

Should I moan to my isp because they didn't ask what hardware and software I run?

Tx

2.4 ghz will not be the problem. What is the CPU and what service are you taking?

JMaples. Did you run TCP optimizer? When you load into safe mode windows runs it’s standard registry file. Exactly like a fresh install. You have demonstrated that your speed is fixed when you do so.

I really can’t help you anymore unless you just want to wipe your system. If you do make a clean USB install image as using the standard recovery in windows settings still doesn’t do a true clean install.

Dave

In reply to a post by deviousiphone:

JMaples. Did you run TCP optimizer? When you load into safe mode windows runs it’s standard registry file. Exactly like a fresh install. You have demonstrated that your speed is fixed when you do so.

I really can’t help you anymore unless you just want to wipe your system. If you do make a clean USB install image as using the standard recovery in windows settings still doesn’t do a true clean install.

Dave

Posted above, yesterday at c. 6pm:

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Tx. I tried but it actually reduced the speed and I had to restore the settings

If he wipes and starts from scratch the "problem" will be resolved, without need for any TCP optimiser. The precise cause is unclear, although given connection is fine, hardware is capable, W10 updates unlikely (or there'd be widespread issues)....then suspicions would point to his security s/w

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

then suspicions would point to his security s/w

and I thought the op was talking to the suppliers of this software. My experience is that this way madness lies, it is simpler to abandon this third party junk and use other mitigations, that also work on mobile devices.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

then suspicions would point to his security s/w

and I thought the op was talking to the suppliers of this software. My experience is that this way madness lies, it is simpler to abandon this third party junk and use other mitigations, that also work on mobile devices.

Agreed. The poor chap spent 1.5 hours on the phone with Zen...I'm a bit lost for what his thought process is here. You can fully uninstall an app and reboot in a a few minutes. Test again. No improvement. Move to the next suspect...

If all else fails, back the thing up and clean it off. You should be done in the same time (or less) as the friendly chat with Zen...let alone the other s/w vendors.

The only thing different that would occur during safe mode is the NIC using a default windows driver. I wonder if he deleted the NIC and the driver and allowed windows to reinstall the latest approved version that might help?

(Just to clarify this may of already occurred I haven’t gone back through the entire conversation)

Edited by deviousiphone (Mon 26-Apr-21 19:59:44)

In reply to a post by deviousiphone:

The only thing different that would occur during safe mode is the NIC using a default windows driver.

Its a Microsoft laptop, does it even have any non-MS drivers?!

Yeah they do. Mostly intel but I do believe in the older versions they used another supplier.

I jumped on board with the Surface Pro 3 myself. They moved away from the semi-version of windows if I remember correctly. Was years ago so I can't quite remember why I wouldn't have the Pro 2 but could be something else.

Just worth a shot really. I hate reinstalling everything personally so I avoid it.

If you see anothing like roll back in the device settings give it a try anyway...

I have a 1GB USB NIC for my Surface Pro 7.

I only use wi_fi but I am going to test how fast it performs on my connection using the adapted. I will provide feedback shortly.

It's as close of a comparision test as I can do.

I can't conveniently post the images here however but on my desktop I cap out at about 950MBPS which is what I would expect with all the overheads.

On my surface was about 170, I used TCP optimer and it went up to about 260MPBS. This was with a USB dongle.

I switched back to Wi-FI and got about 300 mbps.

I monitored task manager throughout to check for any application hogging resources (I too also use MalwareBytes because it's awesome) and couldn't see any issues.

Looks like the symptoms are the same for me I just didn't notice.

It is interesting to note that when I put the suface back on it's charger it hit 500mbps.

Would seem like that suggests it is a power related issue or at least about windows reducing power consumption via link state power management... I was able to replicate it again and again by pulling the charger out and placing it back in.

Dave

Edited by deviousiphone (Mon 26-Apr-21 20:53:58)

Tx Dave. I do not want to wipe the system yet, I an waitinf in Bitdefender, Malwarebytes and Microsoft

In reply to a post by deviousiphone:

Would seem like that suggests it is a power related issue or at least about windows reducing power consumption via link state power management... I was able to replicate it again and again by pulling the charger out and placing it back in.

Dave

OP reckons he’s seeing the same issue with his other machines. See quote from post above...

In reply to a post by JMaples:

Tx. I understand what you mean. I was a user of the earliest laptops in my work and am no stranger to complete reinstalls. But I do not think we are there yet. I have two entirely different modern and fast W10 PCs which have the same problem. Both are kept fully up to date with all program updates. Zen are of the view that the problem lies in the current W10 build. So reinstalling it will not solve the problem.

So what is the common thread...

I can see where you going with this Pheasant, I am inclined to agree, the only difference is the same is true with my desktop yet it has no problems. (I will say again after I used tcp optimizer as I have used it for years).

I would say the noticable difference is laptops based on battery power.... My desktop is not affected but there is no battery management. The surface hits full speed 500mbps (which with it's AC card would be about max) on it's charger.

Has the OP been testing with the surface book both on and off charge? I think with unbuntu performing well it does highlight windows as the issue. I did notice you have the TAP driver installed which gives me reason to believe you use a VPN. You are not connected to the VPN while your doing these tests are you? I happen to know windows isn't great at vpn connections over unix / linux based systems due to poor drivers.

Just wanted to rule that out.

Dave

Edited by deviousiphone (Mon 26-Apr-21 21:24:58)

In reply to a post by deviousiphone:

On my surface was about 170, I used TCP optimer and it went up to about 260MPBS. This was with a USB dongle.

My work issued my Lenovo laptop with a USB adaptor. I wonder if yours is USB2 as those seem quite slow. I’ve seen 500 Mbps over a USB 3 adaptor, but CPU load was quite high. Luckily the Lenovo had its own proprietary port and an Ethernet adaptor for that was £30, so my management provided, and it gives the full 900+ Mbps that I’d expect from an Intel NIC. I would hope the same from the Surface port.

You may be thinking of Windows RT the ARM version of Win8 that MS eventually wrote off for nearly $1bn. I thought that was the Surface without “Pro”. The new Surface Laptops are not related, and the Surface Book that our OP has is the removable screen to tablet concept. A friend of mine has one, he’s happy enough with WiFi that he’s never bought the dock for Ethernet, otherwise I’d ask him to test.

Just to make sure I'm not going slowly insane, I jumped off my Macbook and ran a quick speedtest on a Lenovo X390 Yoga laptop - running all the latest W10 updates and Lenovo firmware updates.

Result:
https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/43eaa21c-b239-...

There has never been any tcp optimiser installed on this machine. That's tested via a wired Thunderbolt 3 dock to a 10GbE copper connection; netsh interface tcp show global, gives:

TCP Global Parameters
----------------------------------------------
Receive-Side Scaling State : enabled
Receive Window Auto-Tuning Level : normal
Add-On Congestion Control Provider : default
ECN Capability : disabled
RFC 1323 Timestamps : disabled
Initial RTO : 1000
Receive Segment Coalescing State : enabled
Non Sack Rtt Resiliency : disabled
Max SYN Retransmissions : 4
Fast Open : enabled
Fast Open Fallback : enabled
HyStart : enabled
Proportional Rate Reduction : enabled
Pacing Profile : off

Laptop is running
- Feature update to Windows 10, version 20H2
- April 13, 2021—KB5001330 (OS Builds 19041.928 and 19042.928) aka 2021-04 Cumulative Update for W10 Version 20H2

You don't seem to understand technology.

Could you tell me what the mains/battery readings you get for your CPU Utilisation(%) and Speed (GHz)? You can do this from Task Manager/Performance/CPU

Also intrested what are main/battery setting are in Power Options/Advanced Settings/Processor Power Management/(Minimum/Maximum) Processor State % are?

On the surface series those settings are hidden by default. I have enabled them again with a registry tweak in the past but I don't have time at the moment.

I really don't understand why you are here. The only messages I have seen come off you are usually borderline insulting unless they just plain are.

People asking questions here often are learning about the issues they face for the first time.

Stop wasting time with pointless comments and give them the chance to understand the answer to their question.

Because they said it was an ISP issue and it clearly isn't. I'm trying to show that an ISP isn't responsible for a user's hardware or software.

Using Linux based O/S has proved that they can reach the speed they pay for. Any bit of installed software may have written something in the registry that is causing the slow down.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Any bit of installed software may have written something in the registry that is causing the slow down.

The registry is just a key-value pair. More importantly is that third party security software can install software and link it into the OS, so that EVERY network interaction passes through the third party software. In the same way as a faulty driver, if that software is not programmed for performance, it can impact the super high speeds.

Most home users haven't seen these speeds before. I worry that the benefits of security software have been long left behind and now it is just money for "old rope".