Understanding Fibre Rollout

Hello all,

I have some questions about the fibre roll out across the UK.

Workers have been installing fibre cables along my road for a few days now. There were no announcements or leaflets regarding this. I have looked online too, and there are no announcements about this work anywhere on websites or local papers.

I noticed that they are basically pushing the cables down the road underground, then at telephone poles they are bringing those cables up along the pole and to the top.

It looks like the fibre cables will be following the same route to each property (ie suspended in the air) as the current copper cables go. Is this correct?

Also, when they do install the cables from the telephone pole to the house, will they bring the cable in to a particular location of our choosing (so that we can decide where the new fibre-internet modem will go), or do they just bring it into the entrance hallway and then we use some kind of fibre extension cable to connect to a modem?

Thanks for any help and information.

P.S. Shoutout to any OG Pipexers still around! haha.

If this is an Openreach FTTP roll out … then more than likely to follow the existing copper routing.

An external splice point will be fitted on the end of the fibre drop cable. An agreed (within reason) location for the ONT will be used… it ought to have two spare power points available… being on an outside wall within the property is preferable too.

From the ONT an ‘inside out’ fibre lead in will be run back to the external splice point, spliced through, and Bob’s yer Uncle, all being well, you’ll have service.


If your preferred router location is tricky to run cable to, then your best bet is to run your own cat5 or above cable between the router location and where the likely ONT will go.


p.s. I recall your username from way back when, I was around, but called something else in those days. Are you still on a 512kbps connection as per your sig then 😃

Thanks for the informative reply.

For the Cat5 option, could this be set up via ethernet over power, instead of running a long cable?

I mean:

ONT--> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> household copper circuits --> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> Fibre Router.

P.S. haha no I'm on "80 meg" but actually only getting 35. Kept the old signature for old times' sake.

Powerline ethernet can kill high speeds on the LAN. Better to get a decent mesh system unless you live in a castle with metre-thick stone walls.

(Bob)

Edited by pluralist (Sun 11-Jul-21 23:09:34)

In reply to a post by LucBorg:

For the Cat5 option, could this be set up via ethernet over power, instead of running a long cable?

I mean:

ONT--> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> household copper circuits --> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> Fibre Router.

It works but isn't ideal.

Agree wholeheartedly agree with both John and Bob’s replies …. don’t go that route if at all possible

I agree as well..

The existing AV1200 powerlines I have on the same ring main were OK-ish when I was on the a 150/30 package but now I've moved to a 500/75 package they top out around 180 Mbps.

In reply to a post by LucBorg:

I mean:

ONT--> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> household copper circuits --> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> Fibre Router.

Not sure that setup would work - at least not with the power line adapters I have seen. You would get a physical link connection OK, but I’m not sure that PPPoE would work between the WAN port of the router and the ONT with the power line link.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by LucBorg:

I mean:

ONT--> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> household copper circuits --> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> Fibre Router.

Not sure that setup would work - at least not with the power line adapters I have seen. You would get a physical link connection OK, but I’m not sure that PPPoE would work between the WAN port of the router and the ONT with the power line link.

Not tried it on FTTP but it works perfectly between an FTTC modem and a router doing PPPoE.

It's just Ethernet between 2 points. Not sure why it wouldn't work on FTTP.
I'll test it later today.

I’d be interested to know if it works John. I’ve given my Devolo power line adapters away so can’t test it.

PPPoE frames are just ethernet frames, and powerline adapters are just ethernet bridges, so it will work.

Using "baby jumbo frames" to your ONT (MTU 1508, so that you get an IP MTU of 1500) may or may not work.

But as others have said, powerline adapters are not really suitable at FTTP speeds. While they may have a "raw" bit rate of say 500Mbps, this is unidirectional, subject to contention, collisions, and noise. Real-world throughput is unlikely to be more than about a third of the headline figure.

For the best reliability, run a CAT5e cable from your ONT to your router.

Thank you so much to everyone who has kindly replied with information and advice.

When fibre gets activated I will try the powerline thing and see if it works. Most likely I will just do the standard set up as recommended by most here:

ONT --> Cat5 --> Modem/Router --> Powerline to some PCs / Wifi for laptops.

ADSLGuide forums are such a great resource! And it's super nice that they use the same efficient software as way back when haha.

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-Jul-21 15:03:24)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by LucBorg:

I mean:

ONT--> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> household copper circuits --> Cat5 powerline ethernet plug --> Fibre Router.

Not sure that setup would work - at least not with the power line adapters I have seen. You would get a physical link connection OK, but I’m not sure that PPPoE would work between the WAN port of the router and the ONT with the power line link.

Not tried it on FTTP but it works perfectly between an FTTC modem and a router doing PPPoE.

It's just Ethernet between 2 points. Not sure why it wouldn't work on FTTP.
I'll test it later today.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

PPPoE frames are just ethernet frames, and powerline adapters are just ethernet bridges, so it will work.

Using "baby jumbo frames" to your ONT (MTU 1508, so that you get an IP MTU of 1500) may or may not work.

But as others have said, powerline adapters are not really suitable at FTTP speeds. While they may have a "raw" bit rate of say 500Mbps, this is unidirectional, subject to contention, collisions, and noise. Real-world throughput is unlikely to be more than about a third of the headline figure.

For the best reliability, run a CAT5e cable from your ONT to your router.

How do you go about addressing them and setting them up on the WAN side of the connection? What if someone plugs in another or more power lines adapter(s)- does that throw a spanner in the works?

I’ve used Devolo dLan (now defunct) and the newer Magic series, but always on the LAN side, so fits in with DHCP and can be administered like any other network device on the LAN.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

How do you go about addressing them and setting them up on the WAN side of the connection? What if someone plugs in another or more power lines adapter(s)- does that throw a spanner in the works?

It would be the same as plugging your WAN and LAN ports into the same switch. In other words, not a good idea

I haven't used Powerline adapters for a while, but they do need to be paired, and have an encryption key. So in theory you could pair up a couple for use for the WAN link, and then have some more which are independently paired for a LAN connection. It would be like neighbours on the same mains phase, who should be able to work independently.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I’ve used Devolo dLan (now defunct) and the newer Magic series, but always on the LAN side, so fits in with DHCP and can be administered like any other network device on the LAN.

I'm pretty sure that the ones I used in the past were managed entirely at layer 2. That is, rather than pick up an IP address via DHCP, you had to use a special management application on the ethernet port which sent non-IP ethernet management frames.

I also have a vague idea I used a Linux implementation of the management application. Could have been one of these:
https://ma.juii.net/blog/powerline-under-linux
https://github.com/serock/pla-util
https://fitzcarraldoblog.wordpress.com/2021/04/23/us...

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I'm pretty sure that the ones I used in the past were managed entirely at layer 2. That is, rather than pick up an IP address via DHCP, you had to use a special management application on the ethernet port which sent non-IP ethernet management frames.

The current bunch from Devolo which I'm familiar with use Layer 3 for management. You can use their discovery protocol program "cockpit" et al to navigate them, but the actual adapter configuration is initiated onto a webpage from the adapter. Stuff like firmware updates etc require internet connectivity.

You're probably right that they would work on the WAN side if its just a straight bridged "pipe", not that I've ever tried, as always have them set up on the LAN side, as I believe they are mostly intended to be used.

With FTTP, you'd probably want to get a set with a GigE port. Maybe the old types with an ordinary Fast Ethernet port would still be OK on FTTC or on something FTTP with a relatively 'slow' profile but a 500M or 900M connection would be pointless. Latency and jitter especially were quite terrible too. Wouldn't be something I'd recommend for FTTP if it could be helped. You simply negate all the good stuff.