Is Zzoomm a ISP?

I am in a discussion with someone on Facebook who say that Zzoomm is not an ISP, but a reseller, i thought they would be a ISP as they are installing their own fibre and surly they provide the service as well.
Here is what he put,

zoom are not tier 1 so are a reseller they don’t have an ASN number meaning they can’t route BGP which means technically they’re not an ISP they will be using someone else’s ASN eg Vodafone/ Level 3 / BT Wholesale

What is a ASN number and BGP?


Cheers.

They have an ASN of AS35433 according to ipinfo

Can’t see them listed on peeringDB though.

You can read up on ASNs (and BGP) here:
https://blog.stackpath.com/autonomous-system-number/

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

What is a ASN number and BGP?

Autonomous System Number and Border Gateway Protocol. They're how you create an interconnected network of networks. (aka the "internet").

Here is their RIPE database entry, in case your Facebook friend has lingering doubts.

They are a ‘legit’ alternative network ISP, by whatever definition you wish to draw.

That Facebook guy hasn't a clue what he's talking about.

An ASN (Autonomous System Number, so same thing as 'PIN numbers') doesn't mean someone is a tier 1.

The tier 1s are small set of ISPs that are basically the 'backbone' of the Internet. They are the transit providers that provide connectivity to others that don't interconnect themselves and are the companies people pay to connect and connect for free between themselves only on the whole.

BGP is a routing protocol used between Autonomous Systems on the Internet to allow exchange of traffic. ISPs have ASNs / Autonomous System Numbers registered with regional registrars then a worldwide one.

ZZoomm have an ASN. They pay Xifos Ltd for connectivity and Xifos in turn connect to the rest of the Internet.

To repeat this guy hasn't a clue what he's talking about.

Cheers peeps, i understand now, what they are, well kind of, I had a look at some websites that explained it a little and from the explanations on here.
@Pheasant, he is not my facebook pal , just someone on the Zzoomm group.
I will copy and paste some of this stuff onto it, but not the bit about him not knowing what he is on about

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I will copy and paste some of this stuff onto it, but not the bit about him not knowing what he is on about

Such is our gravitas…that if you search for “Zzoomm ASN” this thread comes in at number 3 and if you search “Zzoomm ISP” then the thread is fourth in the Google rankings.

So yeah he’ll probably spot it at some point….🤣

Zzoomm was founded by Mathew Hare, who started Gigaclear and is an FTTP ISP..

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Such is our gravitas…that if you search for “Zzoomm ASN” this thread comes in at number 3 and if you search “Zzoomm ISP” then the thread is fourth in the Google rankings.

So yeah he’ll probably spot it at some point….🤣

LOL, He may do, that is if he does a search, he has not come back to me yet.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

Zzoomm was founded by Mathew Hare, who started Gigaclear and is an FTTP ISP..
[/quote

I know who founded it, One reason why I am not sure if I want to change over, Zzoomm when it gets here. He seems to be someone who starts a company and then flogs it.
Knowing my luck, I will go on it and in 12 months he will flog it to Talk Talk.

There are other reasons why I am not sure if I want to bother. One of them is the hassle, another is do I really need that speed and another is price, I get a good deal from Plusnet at the moment, if they keep the deal then I see no reason to move.
I am not bothered if it is classed as a ISP or not, saying that they had a[url="https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/06/zzoomm-apologise-for-disruption-in-oxfordshire-uk-after-ddos.html"]DDOS attack in Henley-on-Thames

To be fair any of the AltNet providers could go bust or (more likely) get subsumed by a larger provider or another AltNet. Consolidation will happen at some point in time - probably when interest rates shift or investors get nervy.

There is lots of investment capital awash at the moment, so for now the FTTP ‘gold rush / merry go round’ continues!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

To be fair any of the AltNet providers could go bust or (more likely) get subsumed by a larger provider or another AltNet. Consolidation will happen at some point in time - probably when interest rates shift or investors get nervy.

Reminds me of 30 years ago with cable TV

The best thing you can probably do for your own sanity is to not bother getting into debates with people you don't care about on Facebook groups

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I will copy and paste some of this stuff onto it, but not the bit about him not knowing what he is on about

Yeah accurate as it is probably not a good idea. I got the vibe you weren't friendly with them so went in with both feet.

I'll clarify any more questions if I see them before they're answered.

I am badly triggered by Dunning-Kruger types so glad to slap them down. I'm as guilty of it in the past as anyone.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

LOL, He may do, that is if he does a search, he has not come back to me yet.

Ah cool. I may get a new member of the fan club soon

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Reminds me of 30 years ago with cable TV

This.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

To be fair any of the AltNet providers could go bust or (more likely) get subsumed by a larger provider or another AltNet. Consolidation will happen at some point in time - probably when interest rates shift or investors get nervy.

Reminds me of 30 years ago with cable TV

Indeed history repeats!

Though there seem (to me) be very many more FTTP AltNets on the scene now than cable providers in the day - maybe a dozen or so, perhaps a few more . We have at least double or treble that with the latest fibre construction, many examples of multiple provider overbuild around the country.

Anyhow, the springs of the fibre internet bandwagon must surely be sagging. There seems to be a new one every week! Something will have to give sooner or later.

In reply to a post by jpm:

The best thing you can probably do for your own sanity is to not bother getting into debates with people you don't care about on Facebook groups

https://xkcd.com/386/

In reply to a post by candlerb:

https://xkcd.com/386/

This

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Anyhow, the springs of the fibre internet bandwagon must surely be sagging.

Yes, I forsee some stopping when they run out of cash, before the assets are picked up by another operator. Hopefully eventually either Openreach or CityFibre will acquire and provide wholesale access.

Customers of the AltNet's need to learn the risks of the USA, when there is only one (viable) ISP in a town, they can charge what they like. The regulated wholesale market (e.g. Openreach) has in general been a good thing for the UK.

Customers of the AltNet's need to learn the risks of the USA, when there is only one (viable) ISP in a town, they can charge what they like. The regulated wholesale market (e.g. Openreach) has in general been a good thing for the UK.

Sage words.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

To be fair any of the AltNet providers could go bust or (more likely) get subsumed by a larger provider or another AltNet. Consolidation will happen at some point in time - probably when interest rates shift or investors get nervy.

There is lots of investment capital awash at the moment, so for now the FTTP ‘gold rush / merry go round’ continues!

Yes, you are right, even the larger providers can be grabbed, like BT grabbed hold of plusnet, but to be honest, plusnet is better for it.

He came back to with
Zen BT TalkTalk Vodafone Sky all have ASN numbers ZOOOOM don’t so must interconnect to one that does

I don't know why it matters so much to him anyway.

In reply to a post by jpm:

The best thing you can probably do for your own sanity is to not bother getting into debates with people you don't care about on Facebook groups

LOL, It is just he puts other people off and he thinks that Openreach is going to cover the whole of Hereford with fibre soon, and they are not, i think it will be a couple of years if not more when Openreach starts. There is one road I think that have open reach FTTP and I have no idea why only that road.
By all accounts, Zzoomm is close to taking orders for their first customers, but not up here until at leats next year.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

Probably not a good idea. I got the vibe you weren't friendly with them so went in with both feet.

I'll clarify any more questions if I see them before they're answered.

I am badly triggered by Dunning-Kruger types so glad to slap them down. I'm as guilty of it in the past as anyone.

I did not start it off, he came up on the page with Don’t worry Openreach are already at it and it’ll be much cheaper seen them laying fibre all over aylestone hill area and tupsley.
As far as i know, that is not correct, i have not see anything about it.

someone else cam back with does that mean they Zoom uses BT equipment and he came back with

no they rip you off instead sky high prices and [censored] oversubscribed service BT are legally a proper ISP Soom are not as they don’t have ASN numbers they’re technically not TIER 1 more so a reseller


so i just asked what he meant of them not being a ISP since they are doing their own network.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Anyhow, the springs of the fibre internet bandwagon must surely be sagging.

Yes, I forsee some stopping when they run out of cash, before the assets are picked up by another operator. Hopefully eventually either Openreach or CityFibre will acquire and provide wholesale access.

Customers of the AltNet's need to learn the risks of the USA, when there is only one (viable) ISP in a town, they can charge what they like. The regulated wholesale market (e.g. Openreach) has in general been a good thing for the UK.

...or the business case(s) take a battering! There's already grumbles from the AltNets, about forthcoming FTTP wholesale price cuts as proposed by OR and currently being 'blessed' by Ofcom:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/08/ofcom-...

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

He came back to with
Zen BT TalkTalk Vodafone Sky all have ASN numbers ZOOOOM don’t so must interconnect to one that does

I don't know why it matters so much to him anyway.

https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/lookup?source=rip...

organisation: ORG-ZP18-RIPE
org-name: Zzoomm plc

https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query?bflag=false...

aut-num: AS35433
as-name: Zzoomm
org: ORG-ZP18-RIPE