Current Openreach FTTP Dropwire Provision

Mounting excitement (at least from me) regarding FTTP roll out.

Last week I received an email from Openreach (as a result of registering my interest on their website about two years ago) that FTTP is coming soon. It's believable because there's been recent activity in my neighbourhood. Poles being replaced, ducts having new draw ropes poking out of them, and a nearby 70s cul-de-sac having new ducts buried.

My house is currently fed overhead from a BT pole the other side of the road, this 'bounces' off an electricity pole that's on the boundary of my property, and lands on the facia on the front gable end of the house, about 2ft below the apex. (it's a bungalow)

Currently, there's BT16a white square junction box, next to the landing point, where the feed transitions into internal grade CW1308 and disappears into the loft space.

Clearly from what I gather, that route into the house will be a no-no for FTTP.

Presumably (and assuming the fibre dropwire takes the same the same external route) the dropwire will have to run down to ground(ish) level where the external termination box is. That's no problem, I was going to fix some 12x12mm electrical trunking on the inside lip of the white facia board, so the dropwire can't be seen until it hits the brick wall below. From there it can travel down to ground level, and the external box can be under my study window, and the ONT can be on the inside straight through the wall.

What will happen about the copper circuit ? I've seen mention of a hybrid dropwire (preferred, because that won't mean two separate cables) but will the copper pair be split away from the fibre when it hits the house, and go into the BT16a box, or does the copper side follow the same route as the fibre, with the NTE5 next to the ONT ?

I'd actually prefer the latter, because I could then remove the the BT16a from the facia, and chop off the CW1308, making the facia look uncluttered ?

Or is the favoured approach to add in the additional fibre dropwire, and leave the existing copper arrangement alone ?

Obviously I'm only planning a month or so overlap running on FTTC/POTS and FTTP, so I don't really care that the study would be the 'wrong' place for the NTE5

Currently the NTE5 is in a comms cupboard in the middle of the house, and I have 4 CAT6 tielines from there to the study

If a hybrid cable is to be used , since you are keeping the copper phone line, it will run to the same point on the eaves, the copper pair will be split off after the clamp. It’ll then go to meet the joint in the 16a (which ought to be replaced, been obsolete for 15 years or so)
The fibre will then carry on down to the CSP.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

If a hybrid cable is to be used , since you are keeping the copper phone line, it will run to the same point on the eaves, the copper pair will be split off after the clamp. It’ll then go to meet the joint in the 16a (which ought to be replaced, been obsolete for 15 years or so)
The fibre will then carry on down to the CSP.

OK !

I suppose on the day, and very much dependant on the person who turns up, and what mood they're in etc etc, I could request having the NTE5 located next/near to the ONT ?

The more I think about, that's the preferable solution (for me !)

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

I'm only planning a month or so overlap running on FTTC/POTS and FTTP

I take above as meaning you are not upgrading but ordering an additional service, so requesting the engineer move the FTTC/POTS copper service seems to be a somewhat cheeky request.

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

I could request having the NTE5 located next/near to the ONT ?

Dect says
seems to be a somewhat cheeky request.
............

If you do not ask you will not find out is my motto

Edited by APTMAN (Thu 19-May-22 14:16:55)

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

I'm only planning a month or so overlap running on FTTC/POTS and FTTP

I take above as meaning you are not upgrading but ordering an additional service, so requesting the engineer move the FTTC/POTS copper service seems to be a somewhat cheeky request.

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

I could request having the NTE5 located next/near to the ONT ?

Yep, I’d completely agree with that.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

If you do not ask you will not find out

This is true and the OP has nothing to lose, just saying how I would received the OP's request. Just imagine you book your car in for a service and on the day you turn up with two cars and say to the servicing engineer, "while you at it could you service my other car for free"

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

If you do not ask you will not find out

This is true and the OP has nothing to lose, just saying how I would received the OP's request. Just imagine you book your car in for a service and on the day you turn up with two cars and say to the servicing engineer, "while you at it could you service my other car for free"

Yes, point taken.

I am talking about an FTTP in addition to the existing 'copper' install.

Thing is, if the drop-wire is to be replaced with a hybrid combined cable, then it's arguably no more effort/time to not split off the copper on the facia, and replace the 16A etc, than to run both components of the cable down to ground level and move the NTE5 to a position next to the ONT.

However, it depends on 'moods' etc on the day !

However, it depends on 'moods' etc on the day !

Lets hope you do not get a cowboy contractor

Edited by APTMAN (Thu 19-May-22 16:31:20)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Lets hope you do not get a cowboy contractor

That's the uncontrollable risk in all of this

To be pedantic, yes it would take more time. Second hole drilled through, new NTE fitted.

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

Yes, point taken.

I am talking about an FTTP in addition to the existing 'copper' install.

Thing is, if the drop-wire is to be replaced with a hybrid combined cable, then it's arguably no more effort/time to not split off the copper on the facia, and replace the 16A etc, than to run both components of the cable down to ground level and move the NTE5 to a position next to the ONT.

However, it depends on 'moods' etc on the day !

I would expect whoever turns up to install your FTTP to refuse to touch your existing copper installation. Yes they might use a hybrid cable, but i doubt they will do anymore than connecting it outside to where the cable enters your house. If they do start messing then more fool them, as that is not their job and if something goes wrong afterwards it will be on their head.

The next thing is you might well get someone who does not have any hybrid cable and they will simply fit a new fibre only drop wire up and leave the existing copper where it is, so you'll have two cables to your house. Again they won't touch your existing copper.

The last point is, there are lots of engineers who do not have copper skills and do not carry master sockets at all as they only do fibre installs. If you get an engineer who has no copper on their van or does not have the skills to do it, they will rightly refuse to mess with an existing circuit. Personally i would expect your existing master socket to remain where it is and why would you want more holes in the wall of your house for a service you are going to terminate in a month or so? Leave the copper where it is, less mess.

In reply to a post by TheInstaller:

The last point is, there are lots of engineers who do not have copper skills and do not carry master sockets at all as they only do fibre installs. If you get an engineer who has no copper on their van or does not have the skills to do it, they will rightly refuse to mess with an existing circuit. Personally i would expect your existing master socket to remain where it is and why would you want more holes in the wall of your house for a service you are going to terminate in a month or so? Leave the copper where it is, less mess.

Yes, point taken. I hadn't considered that the person who turns up might know next to nothing about copper/analogue, but I suppose given OR are training and employing lots of extra people for FTTP, why waste training them on what will be legacy technology ?

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

Yes, point taken.
.
.
.
However

This did make me chuckle, its effectively saying yes but no 🤣🤣

Edited by deleted (Fri 20-May-22 17:26:06)

Thing is, if the drop-wire is to be replaced with a hybrid combined cable, then it's arguably no more effort/time to not split off the copper on the facia, and replace the 16A etc, than to run both components of the cable down to ground level and move the NTE5 to a position next to the ONT.

Except that clearing the hybrid stuff is a pain, the ‘flat’ cleats aren’t nearly as easy as the standard round ones … and thus take longer.

The copper and fibre cable will not fit through the cable entry tubes together, so two holes required .

All more time and hassle

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Thing is, if the drop-wire is to be replaced with a hybrid combined cable, then it's arguably no more effort/time to not split off the copper on the facia, and replace the 16A etc, than to run both components of the cable down to ground level and move the NTE5 to a position next to the ONT.

Except that clearing the hybrid stuff is a pain, the ‘flat’ cleats aren’t nearly as easy as the standard round ones … and thus take longer.

The copper and fibre cable will not fit through the cable entry tubes together, so two holes required .

All more time and hassle

Ok, well there we are. So in summary IF the installer has Hybrid cable available, and IF they have the necessary skills (and willingness) to terminate the copper ends to replace the current copper dropwire, they're just seperate off the copper at the existing landing point?

More than likely, yes.

Hope you don't think we are trying to be difficult with you, just trying to give you some honest opinions on what the likely outcome will be. Please let us know how you get on

In reply to a post by dect:

Hope you don't think we are trying to be difficult with you, just trying to give you some honest opinions on what the likely outcome will be. Please let us know how you get on

Hey, absolutely no problem at all. Advice and insights are always very gratefully received.
I will indeed post the results and outcome, though I'm under no illusions, it may still be some months or even a year or two away! 😎