Something is happening?

This afternoon Open Reach's contractors were lifting manholes, rodding through and pulling a blue rope though the ducting between poles (we are on an overhead copper service).

I asked the guy lifting the lids and as far as he knew it was for fibre. It had to be really, unless OR are going to replace the aluminium cable with copper....

The Hawarden exchange area is on the OR list, so looks like they are making a start at the northerly end of the area.

OR appeared to be pulling in new ducting (black with yellow stripe) on the main fibre route along the A550 a couple of hundred yards away the week before last.

Fingers crossed!

The ‘black with yellow stripe’ isn’t ducting, it is either a multi stranded fibre, or multi tubed blown fibre conduit.

The blue rope brigade might even be there for an Altnet.

Some boxes round here are so busy, they tag their blue rope so others don’t use it.

Yee ha !

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

This afternoon Open Reach's contractors were lifting manholes, rodding through and pulling a blue rope though the ducting between poles (we are on an overhead copper service).

Good luck, in early 2021 I thought I was lucky when OR vans were parked in the road and lots of manholes up, with blue rope everywhere. Turned out the nearby mobile phone mast was having an upgrade. My 4G speeds improved, but not my broadband

Good job, for you, it is blue rope and not sisal or red rope. The blue may mean only Conserative voters will get i!

After what Liz and Kwasi did last week, I might not be on that list!

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

After what Liz and Kwasi did last week, I might not be on that list!

You speak for a lots of their previous supporters 😎

Yeah, the sisal is for masochists.

My vote went to Rishi Sunak. I just don't know what Liz's USP was.

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

I just don't know what Liz's USP was.

I can hazard a guess, but it won't be anything good.

Lets get off that depressing matter and back to the good news that fibre work may have started in your area

In reply to a post by dect:

Lets get off that depressing matter and back to the good news that fibre work may have started in your area

This is the good news, the rest is just pain!

My local Openreach FTTP install but sub contracted to Morrisons is odd, the manholes with ducting were installed and blue ropes could be seen coming out of the manholes before the covers were put on.

They came around this week to pull the fibre through and the blue rope is only 3ft long tied to a much stronger bright orange cable. Wonder if the blue rope was breaking so they moved to a stronger rope but to keep the colours put short lengths of blue on each end. Anyway I now have some 400m of orange nylon rope with 2 3ft blue ends.

Out of reach seems to be upping their game, maybe they are getting worried about the amount of Alt networks springing up, I hope that the alt networks can compete against Openreach.
I have no idea what is happening here, Zzoomm seems to have gone quiet around here, but still nothing about when they will be live and Out of reach was at the bottom of my road a few days ago, stuck them barriers around a pole and that is the way it has stayed.

I don't really buy into this idea that Openreach haven't been putting effort in, sure if you look at a local level you might find an altnet doing a better job at getting to people than Openreach, but Openreach are able to serve 8 million premises now, building at 70k a week. Zzoomm's entire network, for example, was 50k as of June.

Competition is good, altnets are doing some innovative things and symmetrical products are always welcome, but I wouldn't want to only have an altnet available to me. It would genuinely be a difficult decision between FTTC and an altnet such as Trooli where you can't use your own router, or one of the providers that is CGNAT on residential services and doesn't offer IPv6.

Openreach are certainly making progress - although for some reason they have decided to connect fibre up to all the streets in our area except ours (and we can see a fibre-enabled pole only about 50 metres away). I'm guessing there's a blocked or missing duct that they've decided is uneconomic to dig up at this stage.

As for altnets, it depends on which one(s) are available to you of course. Fortunately although we don't have Openreach full fibre here we do have CityFibre, and some of the ISPs available to us (currently a choice of 8) offer a quality service with IPv6 etc - and where they use both networks they are often cheaper on CityFibre. We've just been connected to Giganet, who have a reputation as a top-class ISP, and it's all been good so far.

Out of reach seemed to have no or little interest here before Zzoomm started up, now Out of reach have FTTH in the same estate that Zzoomm started out in, strange that. I also hated that out of reach have had public money chucked at them over the years. They are a privatised company with shareholders and yet our tax have paid for it to build networks in different places, I bet we won't get that back, instead the shareholders will get the benefit. Out of reach have had the original infrastructure for peanuts and only in the last few years have started to update it.

What we need is a single network, but not run by a private company, it should be owned by all of us and then different providers can use it, like they do with Openreach now, but the network should be a not for profit company.

All these altnets while good in theory will confuse people and a lot of people will have no idea what is what. I already hear it where people think that they can use the service they have now with Zzoomm, not realising that Zzoomm is a separate network

I would love Zzoomm to do well and knock openreach down a peg or two, but this is Hereford and I am pretty sure Zzoomm will lose a load of money and sell the network to someone like Talk Talk, saying that Talk Talk have their own problems at the moment cash wise.

as i said above, it has gone quiet now up by me, I have not seen a Zzoomm van or any of their people for a couple of weeks around here I can't even hear any drilling.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Out of reach seemed to have no or little interest here before Zzoomm started up,

I think you're seeing a correlation where there is none. Its possible the OR vans you saw were helping with unblocking as part of the PIA requirements who knows. OR have no date for my town and an AltNet has been at work for over 12 months. No sign of any OR vans.

The level of planning and logistics involved in these rollouts is huge, there is simply no chance that an altnet is spotted deploying and Openreach move teams in to cover them off within a couple of months.

When you see manifold boxes fitted to the poles you'll be very close to going live. Our village took about two weeks from the manifolds going up to being able to order FTTH.

In reply to a post by neo_wales:

When you see manifold boxes fitted to the poles you'll be very close to going live.

Assuming you have poles

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I think you're seeing a correlation where there is none. Its possible the OR vans you saw were helping with unblocking as part of the PIA requirements who knows. OR have no date for my town and an AltNet has been at work for over 12 months. No sign of any OR vans.

I saw a couple or so years ago that Openreach was coming up here, it may have been longer, but then it all went quiet, but it does seem a coincidence that openreach have now got FTTH running where Zzoomm first started laying fibre.
it just seems very strange.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by neo_wales:

When you see manifold boxes fitted to the poles you'll be very close to going live.

Assuming you have poles

Poles here, zzoomm have already put their equipment on them, and have done so at least 3 or 4 weeks ago. Still no info about going live, not that I can change yet even if I wanted to, but a neighbour is waiting for them to go live.

Do you know where I can find the regulation or convention, whereby "telephone poles" as known by the general public, are known as "telegraph poles" by those in council planning departments and elsewhere.

Admittedly telegraph systems were in existence before telephone, but the last telegraph system, TELEX has now long gone. The ITU - International Telecommunications Union, part of the UN, referred to Direct Printing Telegraphy in relation to Telex and Teletype. Hand sent telegraphy, ie Morse has too now gone in commercial applications. (Been there done that professionally!)

Once the PSTN has gone, what will they call the poles then?

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Do you know where I can find the regulation or convention, whereby "telephone poles" as known by the general public, are known as "telegraph poles"

Ask these people: https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Once the PSTN has gone, what will they call the poles then?

I'd say the Internet is closer to telegraphy than telephony, so the name can stay.

Looked out the window this morning to see work being carried out on two telegraph poles opposite. Had a closer look afterwards and each now with a CBT and a coil of "cable" with a yellow stripe. Looking good!

Would have been even happier if the pole where our overhead copper comes from; the two poles being worked on do not have to supply that many houses, whereas "our" pole is more or less fully loaded with copper.

What I did think strange though, was the fact that today is a Public Holiday!

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Looked out the window this morning to see work being carried out on two telegraph poles opposite. Had a closer look afterwards and each now with a CBT and a coil of "cable" with a yellow stripe. Looking good!

good, glad to hear it.

Would have been even happier if the pole where our overhead copper comes from; the two poles being worked on do not have to supply that many houses, whereas "our" pole is more or less fully loaded with copper.

Confused I am.

The pole outside my house has 12 I think copper cables, which is a fair few and if they all go fibre, that is another 12, so 22 cables from the same pole, it will look a right mess, saying that it already does

What I did think strange though, was the fact that today is a Public Holiday!

Cheers!

That it is, but some of us work it, so why not they? I presume the strikes have put them back, so with extra pay they will work the bank holiday to get it done.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Would have been even happier if the pole where our overhead copper comes from; the two poles being worked on do not have to supply that many houses, whereas "our" pole is more or less fully loaded with copper.

Confused I am.

The pole outside my house has 12 I think copper cables, which is a fair few and if they all go fibre, that is another 12, so 22 cables from the same pole, it will look a right mess, saying that it already does

Recent Openreach full fibre installations have removed the copper drop wire or replaced it with a hybrid drop wire.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

The pole outside my house has 12 I think copper cables, which is a fair few and if they all go fibre, that is another 12, so 22 cables from the same pole, it will look a right mess, saying that it already does

Could be worse: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-messy-electrical-c...

Cheers!

In reply to a post by cymru123:

Recent Openreach full fibre installations have removed the copper drop wire or replaced it with a hybrid drop wire.

For existing underground copper pairs would that also involve the removal of an external BT66B junction box if a hybrid optical/copper installation was to be done?

Yes, though not always.

It might be replaced by a CSP which houses the UG copper too … but not always, as there are so many different scenarios

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes, though not always.

It might be replaced by a CSP which houses the UG copper too …

In my case that would certainly be a very satisfactory installation - also I guess I'll have wait and see if the existing UG copper can be replaced and it's route used for UG hybrid optical/copper.

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

[
Could be worse: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-messy-electrical-cables-and-wires-on-electric-pole-92679133.html?imageid=9CB26AA4-A5CD-4D18-9F81-BA024ED89234&p=278354&pn=1&searchId=7a4ba0111c9506558ad1eeb58dfdc35d&searchtype=0

Cheers!
[/quote]

LOL, I have seen that before, i think there would be a bit of a stink up if that happened here

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In my case that would certainly be a very satisfactory installation - also I guess I'll have wait and see if the existing UG copper can be replaced and it's route used for UG hybrid optical/copper.

Do they do a UG Fibre/Copper hybrid cable, I've only ever seen an overhead drop version?

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In my case that would certainly be a very satisfactory installation - also I guess I'll have wait and see if the existing UG copper can be replaced and it's route used for UG hybrid optical/copper.

Do they do a UG Fibre/Copper hybrid cable, I've only ever seen an overhead drop version?

No they don’t Dect, as you say, O/H only …

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

No they don’t Dect, as you say, O/H only …

Thanks for confirming my suspicion and happy New Year to you Zarjaz

Happy New Year

Openreach's contractors Geo were back outside this morning and working on the DP which currently carries our overhead copper dropwire.
Going out afterwards, could see that they had been fitting CBTs with a coil of fibre to every pole in the area.

Guess that the next job will be to feed this fibre through the existing ducting to where ever it gets combined.

I will have to have another look tomorrow, since some poles appear to have more coils of fibre hanging off than would be needed for supplying the CBTs for the number of houses.

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Openreach's contractors Geo were back outside this morning and working on the DP which currently carries our overhead copper dropwire.
Going out afterwards, could see that they had been fitting CBTs with a coil of fibre to every pole in the area.

Guess that the next job will be to feed this fibre through the existing ducting to where ever it gets combined.

I will have to have another look tomorrow, since some poles appear to have more coils of fibre hanging off than would be needed for supplying the CBTs for the number of houses.

Cheers!

That what happened here, but I don't know if the coil of fibre was for ZZoomm or openreach. It took over a week before Fibre was available after the coils vanished, that was Zzoomm, not openreach. Openreach came online a few weeks after.

If everything goes right, you should be able to get fibre in a few weeks.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

If everything goes right, you should be able to get fibre in a few weeks.

I'd say that's a tad optimistic. You might be lucky, but 3 months would be a more reasonable expectation (and it could be longer than that).

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

If everything goes right, you should be able to get fibre in a few weeks.

I'd say that's a tad optimistic. You might be lucky, but 3 months would be a more reasonable expectation (and it could be longer than that).

Really? It was not that long here, but then maybe Zzoomm being here moved Openreach into doing it quicker as they don't want to lose people to ZZoomm when peoples contracts start running out

I'm talking Openreach.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I'm talking Openreach.

So am I it was only around 3 weeks after I saw the coils that openreach fibre was available here as was shocked, but as I said above, maybe Zzoomm being here made them move a bit faster

I think it can be any where between weeks and months just depending on whether everything upstream is already in place. Even once a fibre is visibly installed it doesn't mean that all of the other work back to the exchange has already been completed.

In reply to a post by ian72:

I think it can be any where between weeks and months just depending on whether everything upstream is already in place. Even once a fibre is visibly installed it doesn't mean that all of the other work back to the exchange has already been completed.

One of the larger estates here had openreach fibre a while here, again I think they are following zzoomm and one road for some reason have had openreach Full fibre for a few years. i thought it was strange that it was just one road, but knowing now that FTTP branch off the same fibre for FTTC, I suppose it was not a big thing to do.
Still strange.

What is a bit strange is I went for a walk today to Lidls and noticed down a road where half of it is Zzoomm and Openreach and the other half is Zzoomm only. I also noticed that the four roads I walked down, only 3 houses had Fibre and those three houses are here by me in my road, two Zzoomm and one Openreach. I normally cycle or go by car, so I don't get to look at things, but as I walked today I thought I would have a nose. Maybe more will change as the year goes on.

I also noticed a pole on the way back that is a bit iffy, I would not like to climb on it, It was like the Leaning Tower of Pisa, and it has 4 CBTs on, as it is close to flats and bungalows.

Well, now that the holidays are over and people are getting back to some normality, not that it was any different for me as I worked my normal days, maybe more people will order.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

knowing now that FTTP branch off the same fibre for FTTC

This is not true, they use the same aggregation node but separate fibre strands.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

knowing now that FTTP branch off the same fibre for FTTC

This is not true, they use the same aggregation node but separate fibre strands.

That is what I meant, off the same aggregation node, but I presume the rest of it is easier as it will go via openreach ducts. It is just strange that they only did one road a few years ago and that was it. Unless someone lived in the road who paid a lot of money to have it done

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

but I presume the rest of it is easier

I am sure there are thousands of Openreach employees and contractors shaking their heads at that comment when time after time they find blocked ducts that need desilting or excavation to resolve. As you may know I worked for BT for many years so can accurately say the vast majority of deployments either fibre or copper are not easy.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

It is just strange that they only did one road a few years ago and that was it.

Was it a new-build estate?

In reply to a post by dect:

I am sure there are thousands of Openreach employees and contractors shaking their heads at that comment when time after time they find blocked ducts that need desilting or excavation to resolve. As you may know I worked for BT for many years so can accurately say the vast majority of deployments either fibre or copper are not easy.

I said easier, not easy. I am sure there are plenty of blocked ducts, since a lot of them are years old and no doubt no maintenance on them whatsoever. This seems to be the norm in this country, lack of maintenance of a lot of things,

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Was it a new-build estate?

No, well not as old as a lot of the estates here, it is still old. Maybe it had something to do with the racecourse being close by. There was a block of flats built next to the football ground not, so many years back, and they did not have fibre

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I said easier, not easy. I am sure there are plenty of blocked ducts, since a lot of them are years old and no doubt no maintenance on them whatsoever. This seems to be the norm in this country, lack of maintenance of a lot of things,

To be fair I did read it wrongly as easy rather than easier

I am sure there are plenty of blocked ducts, since a lot of them are years old and no doubt no maintenance on them whatsoever. This seems to be the norm in this country, lack of maintenance of a lot of things,

No one maintains ducts until they need to. It would be an expensive and pointless exercise

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Jan-23 16:47:50)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

This seems to be the norm in this country, lack of maintenance of a lot of things,

But until recently the only time maintenance was required was when new copper wires needed to be pushed through due to additional housing being built. Until that occurs, the installed in the 1960's and 1970s underground ducts are "maintenance free" and hence significantly cheaper on the 'line rental' part of your bill.

Edited by jchamier (Thu 05-Jan-23 17:32:40)

In reply to a post by rogan8:

I am sure there are plenty of blocked ducts, since a lot of them are years old and no doubt no maintenance on them whatsoever. This seems to be the norm in this country, lack of maintenance of a lot of things,

No one maintains ducts until they need to. It would be an expensive and pointless exercise

Maybe you should be replying to the person you are quotes rather than me.

I prefer it my way.

This one is for you Adrian from someone who doesn't want to post to you directly for some weird reason but hey-ho I will put my big boy trousers on and assist

In reply to a post by rogan8:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I am sure there are plenty of blocked ducts, since a lot of them are years old and no doubt no maintenance on them whatsoever. This seems to be the norm in this country, lack of maintenance of a lot of things,

No one maintains ducts until they need to. It would be an expensive and pointless exercise

Edited by deleted (Fri 06-Jan-23 09:55:01)

In reply to a post by rogan8:

I prefer it my way.

Not a newsgroup fan then?

Activity recommenced today at a new pole opposite. That's a gap of 4 months since the CBTs and coils of fibre were left hanging off the poles.

Whilst most is round with a yellow stripe, there is also some black flat cable about the size of 2.5mm twin & earth cable. From the label on one of the 5 coils, this one is Cable Size 8 Fibre/Copper.

Besides running the new overheads between old poles and a new intermediate pole (no underground to this one) some of the CBTs now have their fibre routed through duct underground to the adjacent manhole.

Am just hoping that the progress continues.

Cheers!