New Openreach Broadband Availability Checker

FTTP Checker: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-checker (trial at the moment before go live soon)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

FTTP Checker: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-checker (trial at the moment before go live soon)

Useless it is, fine for finding out what is already available’ but no good for finding out when things are going to become available. According to it, FTTP will come here between now and 2026.

It's certainly going to cause confusion. For me:

Ultrafast Full Fibre Broadband (1000Mpbs). Perfect for: Digital phonelines
Standard Broadband (24Mbps): Perfect for: Analogue phonelines
Superfast Broadband (10-18Mbps): Perfect for: Analgoue or Digital phonelines

So the slower Superfast is ok for digital but the faster Standard isn't. If that isn't going to cause confusion with the whole PSTN switchoff I don't know what will. Or does 'digital' not mean an IP phone and i'm mistaken?

Edited by zebb_edi (Tue 15-Nov-22 08:39:28)

Digital must mean IP, I get the same split but why is digital not available on Standard. The predicted speeds on Standard and Superfast are odd for me, standard is 24mb but I only ever got 8mb on ADSL 5 years ago before I went 4G and neighbours tell me its got worse and Superfast is 1mb and never tried it.

Yes they are odd for me too. Almost like they've mixed up the `Standard` and `Superfast` labels and gotten them the wrong way around.

It almost seems like they are trying to mislead people towards the ultrafast, when in reality I thought IP phones didn't use that much bandwidth.

How can they say that the USO is 10Mbps and will be suitable, but 24Mbps can't support a digital phoneline?


...... or it's just a simple mistake.

Edited by zebb_edi (Tue 15-Nov-22 09:01:14)

I don't think it is based on speed just on the tier of service. ADSL services (standard) say ok for Analogue. Both of the fibre based services say ok for digital or analogue. The services that it is ok for are based on whether it is FTTP/FTTC/ADSL not on the speed (at least from what I can see).

On yours for the TV does it say standard is good for "Streaming TV", Superfast for "Streaming HD TV" and Ultrafast for "Streaming 4K TV" - that is more of an indicator as your predicted speeds are better on ADSL than FTTC so if the TV still goes in that order then they aren't considering the speeds at all.

Yes that's exactly what it says. The slower 'Superfast' is suitable for streaming HD.

Pretty useless if they aren't considering speeds at all. Especially since the standard ADSL is waaaay over estimated than what I ever got.

With mine, I get sensible results except it also shows 24M for ADSL download (BTW checker says "up to 13", with range "7.5 to 17.5"). Hopefully they'll fix that.

However, I think they ought to at least grey out the boxes where the service isn't available. A first glance says "Yay! Ultrafast is available!" - until you notice the little red tab at the top which says "Build not announced"

In reply to a post by zebb_edi:

Yes they are odd for me too. Almost like they've mixed up the `Standard` and `Superfast` labels and gotten them the wrong way around.

It almost seems like they are trying to mislead people towards the ultrafast, when in reality I thought IP phones didn't use that much bandwidth.

I think the highest quality VoIP codec has a max rate of 64kbps or something like that.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

However, I think they ought to at least grey out the boxes where the service isn't available. A first glance says "Yay! Ultrafast is available!" - until you notice the little red tab at the top which says "Build not announced"

It's a trial, which Max failed disclose in his OP.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/11/openre...

One would hope it will be tweaked and any bugs ironed out before an official launch

In reply to a post by simon194:

I think the highest quality VoIP codec has a max rate of 64kbps or something like that.

Yes, although with framing overheads it comes to closer to 100kbps.

I think they're trying to avoid SOTAP where possible, because the upload speed is typically less than 1Mbps.

This is the first Openreach checker I've seen that specifically mentions upload speeds, which has got to be a good thing. It means somebody within the company sees them as important, and a differentiator between different access products.

simon194

There are higher bandwidth codecs for HD voice but most VOIP suppliers default to 64k or below (128kb bothway). Codec negotiation goes to the highest Bw codec both ends support when the call is set up.

In reply to a post by Davey_H:

It's a trial, which Max failed disclose in his OP.

No, Max noted that- in parentheses after the url.

zebb_edi

Don't know if it has already improved mine says what I would expect and the Standard now clearly says UPTO 24Mb

Gfast also shows where that is available.

Where FTTP is not available at some properties it shows correctly what is available, at others it only shows FTTP build not announced. I assume this is due to the premises (Flat) not having OR service at present. (Based on two flats in the same block) .

Overall it gives the same info as the existing OR checker but in a more end user friendly design

Step counts in the top right 2/5 go to 3/4 if you click on express an interest .

In reply to a post by adslmax:

FTTP Checker: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-checker (trial at the moment before go live soon)

I really don't think this new site is what all those people waiting for FTTP were hoping for and all those who already have FTTP it does nothing for them either.

And it is wildly out - obviously does not use any historic data.

When on FTTC my speeds were typically mid-50s at the end. I suggests 60-80 ...

ADSL is worse - my speeds had finally dropped to around 5 or 6 and the old checker relects this. The new one say "up to 24" - yes, there is the famous "up to" but I would definitely argue it is misleading as OR know the line would only give 6 ....

Checking neighbours - some on FTTC and others on ADSL - they show the same and their actuals are only slightly better than I had.

The new openreach checker didn't pick up any historic data yet. They estimated my FTTC at 72Meg and G.fast at 189Meg which are incorrect one.

My past history with G.fast are highest than 250Meg and my current SoGEA are higher than 80Meg.

The checker is on beta and trial at the moment as it not live by database history collected by DLM send to Openreach database checker.

The correct one via BTw checker using phone number or Access Line ID (for Sogea only) to fetch the correct line history database from the router sync rate as below:

Observed Speeds VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed 80
Max Observed Upstream Speed 20
Observed Date 2022-11-05

Edited by adslmax (Tue 15-Nov-22 12:55:16)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

FTTP Checker: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-checker (trial at the moment before go live soon)

It looks like a trial to make sure the site works as a site using "default" numbers and they'll connect it to the various databases etc to provide real world info later on.

In reply to a post by billford:

It looks like a trial to make sure the site works as a site using "default" numbers and they'll connect it to the various databases etc to provide real world info later on.

Been told by Openreach the checker will become live later but no date is given yet. These will following up with BTw checker as well.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 15-Nov-22 12:50:51)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

FTTP Checker: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-checker (trial at the moment before go live soon)

Useless it is, fine for finding out what is already available’ but no good for finding out when things are going to become available. According to it, FTTP will come here between now and 2026.

Yes, and for me between now and the end of 2026. How useful !

In reply to a post by billford:

It looks like a trial to make sure the site works as a site using "default" numbers and they'll connect it to the various databases etc to provide real world info later on.

It is definitely using real FTTC line speed estimates on the addresses I've tried it on.;

andynormancx / bilford

OR 'Own' the FTTC figures but ADSL ones are 'Owned' by BTW and LLU operators.

Thus OR can only guess at the achieved speeds for ADSL using line loss info, whereas the FTTC ones can be based on achieved figures.

I hope the guessed figures will be loaded at some point, with a disclaimer.

This is true FTTC, FTTP and G.fast database from OR passed onto BTW database. ADSL and ADSL2 database from BTW and LLU.

You've repeated what kitcat stated.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

You've repeated what kitcat stated.

Its Punxsutawney Phil if I remember correctly 😎

FTTC data here isn't too accurate. I've been getting 60 down and 15 up since I moved into this house in April 2020. This checker shows 67-80 down and 19-20 up.

It also adds more confusion here in regards to FTTP rollout. Information I've seen previously (can't remember where) showed the whole county (Rutland) as "before december 2026". Some of the small villages around here already have FTTP coverage but no work has been down in the county town of Oakham itself yet. This new checker just shows "Build not announced" which could make you think that there's no plans at all for us.

Lightspeed and Upp have both been installing their networks since the spring so hopefully they shouldn't be too much longer before they're available. By the time Openreach install in Oakham, everyone will have already signed up with these 2 providers.

Not impressed.

Putting in my own postcode and house number simply gives me the up to 2026 date. BUT the offered Standard Broadband (ADSL2?) at up to 24 Mbps is way, way above what I ever achieved prior to VDSL. The Superfast Broadband at 30-46 Mbs is also above my current VDSL speed



But the real oddity is our village hall, The Hawarden Institute CH5 3NS Currently we just have Standard Broadband there supplied by BT Business, no need for Superfast as yet. But using CH5 3NS as the post code and selecting HAWARDEN INSTITUTE it advises:-

"BUILD NOT ANNOUNCED" no mention of Standard or Superfast, which is rather strange, since there is an attached house to the Hawarden Institute 31A fed overhead from the same Distribution Pole which whilst also in Build for between now and Dec 2026 has both Standard and Superfast available.

Openreach appear to be using the Royal Mail postcode address checker, so something not 100% with Openreach's records, I think.

I will wait until this new checker is fully live and query it then.

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Not impressed.

Putting in my own postcode and house number simply gives me the up to 2026 date. BUT the offered Standard Broadband (ADSL2?) at up to 24 Mbps is way, way above what I ever achieved prior to VDSL. The Superfast Broadband at 30-46 Mbs is also above my current VDSL speed.

At one address I have Ultrafast Full Fibre Broadband - 'Build not announced'.
Standard Broadband 'Available now Up to 24 Mbps download speed' which is some what misleading as the speed was more like 1.5Mbps. Openreach should know that the line is about 6.1 km long and is therefore not capable of a 10th of the 24 Mbps speed!

For those of us where FTTP isnt planned, it behaves better than the old one.

The old one would simply spit out FTTC/ADSL availability as if thats what I was checking for with no reference to FTTP, now this at least says not announced which is less confusing although I think still a weird choice of words as it implies will be announced later.

Anyone else find it interesting the coverage is 43%, but about 90% of forum users seem to have it available or planned? Whats the actual announced planned coverage?

Interesting. For my address it states, "Ultrafast full fibre broadband up to 1000mbps - Build planned between now and Dec-22"

No sign of any FTTP build near here. The old btwholesale line checker says, "The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme."

Something not right with this.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Anyone else find it interesting the coverage is 43%, but about 90% of forum users seem to have it available or planned?

I think you may be basing that on active forum members as when you look through posts there are probably only a few dozen regularly posting and a chunk of those have paid for FTTPod

Edited by deleted (Wed 16-Nov-22 09:46:22)

In reply to a post by zebb_edi:

Yes that's exactly what it says. The slower 'Superfast' is suitable for streaming HD.

Pretty useless if they aren't considering speeds at all. Especially since the standard ADSL is waaaay over estimated than what I ever got.

The checker is in trial at the moment.
Currently the Standard broadband shows 24Mb/s for everyone, regardless of how long the line is.
You can't buy ADSL (standard Broadband) without a PSTN voice service, which is why it isn't recommended for VOIP/Digital Voice.

The "slower" Superfast broadband is almost never slower. It's just that those results are accurate for your property.

I'm sure before this checker goes fully live the Standard Broadband figures will show an accurate result instead of 24Mb/s for everyone, removing the confusion you suggest.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 16-Nov-22 14:20:58)

In reply to a post by Chardonbleu:

Interesting. For my address it states, "Ultrafast full fibre broadband up to 1000mbps - Build planned between now and Dec-22"

No sign of any FTTP build near here. The old btwholesale line checker says, "The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme."

Something not right with this.

A bit more specific than we get here - all we see is "Build planned between now and Dec-2026". Given that the rest of our area is live and it's only 3 poles in our street that Openreach left out back in the summer, I'd hope it's before 2026. Anyway, at least we have CityFibre live here and so far Giganet have been great.

Edited by Stargazer99 (Wed 16-Nov-22 17:05:46)

Kind of the opposite of my result

This new checker says "Build not announced"

Yet this map https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when... shows "To be built between April 2021 and December 2026"

The rollout plan PDF also says by December 2026

I also have 'Build not announced', which is at odds with the following:

1. The current 'production' availability checker on OR's website, which has my address in scope
2. The availability map, which has my postcode in scope for completion by 2024
3. Information provided by OR fibre enquiries in March stating the build for my address would start in September of this year (I haven't seen anything but that doesn't preclude it, of course)

So either the data in the trial checker is bad for my address or I've been descoped within the last 6 months or so. Hoping for the former!

When i tried it on the 15th, it said anytime between now and 2026, and I was doing some checking today on the BT site to be nosy, and it said I could get ultrafast fibre, I thought something was wrong. So I checked on plusnet and it said the same thing. So I just had another check on this new open reach checker and yes, ultrafast fibre is available to me, so that have happened in the last 3 days,.

so I expect I will be getting the emails from Plusnet now to update to this ultrafast fibre. They can ask once, I don't have a problem, but as long as they don't keep emailing me about it.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

so I expect I will be getting the emails from Plusnet now to update to this ultrafast fibre. They can ask once, I don't have a problem, but as long as they don't keep emailing me about it.

We don't have a problem either, as long as you don't keep posting to this list about it.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I was doing some checking today on the BT site to be nosy, and it said I could get ultrafast fibre, I thought something was wrong. So I checked on plusnet and it said the same thing. So I just had another check on this new open reach checker and yes, ultrafast fibre is available to me, so that have happened in the last 3 days,.

so I expect I will be getting the emails from Plusnet now to update to this ultrafast fibre. They can ask once, I don't have a problem, but as long as they don't keep emailing me about it.

Any chance you and Max could switch properties as it would be a perfect match.

In reply to a post by dect:

Any chance you and Max could switch properties as it would be a perfect match.

No chance! But I will swap his property if his area are excellent range of 5G indoor (EE network)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

No chance! But I will swap his property if his area are excellent range of 5G indoor (EE network)

LOL, you have no chance, for a start we don't have 5G in most of the city and another thing is, Telford is worse than Hereford if that is possible.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

No chance! But I will swap his property if his area are excellent range of 5G indoor (EE network)

Wow, so FTTP no longer a life and death priority now, moved onto wanting indoor 5G now. Openreach management will be glad to hear that.

In reply to a post by No_One:

Kind of the opposite of my result

This new checker says "Build not announced"

Yet this map https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when... shows "To be built between April 2021 and December 2026"

The rollout plan PDF also says by December 2026

The biggest problem with this checker and even the original checker is it fails to specify whether a wayleave agreement has really taken place!

I mentioned a few days ago in one of the other threads where I spoke to a person from Openreach and asked why certain postcodes in my area under the same housing association show Build Plan and others show no plan at all.

Just because the build plan shows that it will be built by December 2026 doesn't mean it will really happen. This is just Openreach announcing their interest in the area.

Look, I also happen to get a "To be built between April 2022 and April 2025" when I enter my postcode E1 6DJ. But if I go to Openreach site and enter postcode there this will come up

Did you know?
We're upgrading millions of homes and businesses to Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband
At the moment, we don't have any plans to upgrade your area to full fibre, but provide your contact details and we'll keep you up to date if things change - we add new locations into our build plan every three months.

Enter another postcode like E1 6PS that's a building next to me under same housing association EastendHomes and this is what it will show..

Did you know?
We're upgrading millions of homes and businesses to Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband
We're starting to build our ultra-fast, ultra-reliable Full Fibre broadband in your area.
Provide your details below, and we'll keep you up to date with how we're getting on and what this could mean for you and your property.

You see this is the logical fallacy of this checker that makes me angry. I explained that to the Openreach person on the phone a few days ago. And he says that they will request wayleave in the next 2 years. If wayleave is granted then my area should be upgraded too. But if it does not, then there's no promise that it will go live.

It all depends. The fact that Openreach can't guarantee 100% FTTP coverage for every exchange area is indicative of a lack of confident from their part. Those announcements absolutely mean nothing at this stage.

It would be better if the "We're starting to build our ultra-fast, ultra-reliable Full Fibre broadband in your area." is reflective of the wayleave agreement because if they have not acquired wayleave, it is very misleading and even deceptive to make such a claim. They are only assuming that the permission will be granted and the upgrade will go ahead.

Maybe Openreach should learn from Hyperoptic and CommunityFibre. Their checkers will show "Building permission granted" "We have an agreement to proceed with our installation for your building."

Openreach have to be more transparent and professional!

Wayleave is always nasty one! Some get lucky approved, some aren't.

Edited by adslmax (Mon 21-Nov-22 09:46:55)

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Openreach have to be more transparent and professional!

Thats a little harsh in my opinion, when you spoke to Openreach on the phone were they not transparent and professional? sounds from what you said they were very much both and clear about what their plans are.

You can't expect the level of detail you're hoping for via an online checker, otherwise they would need to include caveats like "as long as the ducts are not blocked", "the lady at number 30 doesn't have her washing out" and so on, they have given you an estimate subject to everything going as planned (that goes for where they need wayleaves and where they don't).

The biggest problem with this checker and even the original checker is it fails to specify whether a wayleave agreement has really taken place!

I’m with @dect on this. You’re expecting a tad much from what is a very basic checker.

Wayleaves are a private property issue and can be fiendishly complex. Expecting BT/OR to hold and display this on a publicly accessible database I don’t think is realistic.

I can't see getting permission to install being an issue around here seeing as Upp and Lightspeed have already been installing since the spring. Hopefully I shouldn't have to wait too much longer before I can order with one of them

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Openreach have to be more transparent and professional!

Thats a little harsh in my opinion, when you spoke to Openreach on the phone were they not transparent and professional? sounds from what you said they were very much both and clear about what their plans are.

You can't expect the level of detail you're hoping for via an online checker, otherwise they would need to include caveats like "as long as the ducts are not blocked", "the lady at number 30 doesn't have her washing out" and so on, they have given you an estimate subject to everything going as planned (that goes for where they need wayleaves and where they don't).

Yes, I'll admit Ethan Evans was professional on the phone and on email. He willingly wanted to speak with me on the phone and asked me to email him my contact number so he can call me, which he did the following day around 4pm.

His conduct was professional and he was patient and friendly, which I certainly appreciated. The following day he sent me an email with a Landlord Brochure - Digital (005) PDF document detailing how to request wayleave and get in contact with the residents and freeholders of the building.

All this seems good but he told me he cannot give me any definitive answer.

Hi Rahul,

Thanks for your time on the phone today.

Apologies for the delayed email, I was trying to dig out some literature regarding FTTP into Apartment blocks.

The attached leaflet is what we send out to landlords and freeholders, it explains that once we get contact we will look to install FTTP free of charge (subject to survey). The best thing I can advise here would be to speak to the landlord/freeholder of the building, whether it be on your own or a group of residents and see if they would be will to engage with us to get FTTP installed.

Please feel free to keep my details to hand and if you need anything regarding your query please do not hesitate to reach out, but I will close things from here.


Best Wishes,

Ethan

Ethan Evans

Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complaints Team

Openreach

The thing is if you compare that to the Hyperoptic checker you will see something like this... Building permission needed

"We are yet to request permission to install Hyperoptic Full Fibre broadband to your building."

Or Building has been assessed

Your building has been confirmed for further investigation into bringing Hyperoptic Full Fibre services to you.
Hyperoptic fb

Building has been surveyed

Your building survey is complete.
Hyperoptic fb

Building permission granted

We have an agreement to proceed with our installation for your building.
--------------------
This is what I wanted to see for Openreach FTTP. Then we can all be at least psychologically better off knowing categorically if it will happen or not without getting our hopes up! It will also show proof that Openreach is really willing to install Fibre into the building and not just ignoring us by choice.

This Openreach checker may lift up positive hopes for too many and end up disappointing. I know Hyperoptic is a smaller provider, but they got this aspect done very well for a very good number of years now!

At least with Hyperoptic I know categorically that they aren't going to come to my building. But with Openreach FTTP it is still an uncertainty.

Wouldn't it be better for all of us if we knew with 100% that the service will not go live come December 2026 than to have false hope and just be disappointed that it didn't happen?

In reply to a post by No_One:

I can't see getting permission to install being an issue around here seeing as Upp and Lightspeed have already been installing since the spring. Hopefully I shouldn't have to wait too much longer before I can order with one of them

Yes, that is my hope too. However, there is no guarantee they they will grant permission for Openreach FTTP. For example my management refused to grant permission to Hyperoptic despite me being registered as a Hyperoptic Champion in February 2015. I got 30+ signatures from August 2014 to February 2015 and still at that time EastendHomes refused wayleave agreement.

I then spoke to my Housing Estate Manager Edgar Tannoh who said that he's spoken to the Technical Services Manager John Hinds and said that "If we are going to agree fibre we will do it with another provider, not Hyperoptic".

Anyway, that is a quote from 7 years ago. Finally permission is now granted for Community Fibre instead! However, it appears that they are vehemently against Hyperoptic. I spoke to a Hyperoptic Representative who told me that they were hanging up the phone on him and was insisting to try and convince them to speak to them.

Now, the problem is that the management team might find an excuse and say something along this line, "well we have granted permission to Community Fibre, what more do you want?" See, that is my fear! They will no longer be mandated to grant permission for Fibre. And even if I tried to raise this issue with my local MP they will say, it's not mandatory as permission is granted for Community Fibre.

My only hope with Openreach FTTP is that it is traditionally a larger FTTP network and if that can somehow convince management to grant permission for them this time, but there's no guarantee.

In my reply to you I can waffle about this and that, but the bottom line is you're not going to get the checker you desire. It is what it is a simple checker about estimated delivery time.

Hyperoptic's entire business model is deploying to MDU's in City centres.
Almost every single deployment they make requires some kind of wayleave.

You're expecting too much for Openreach to list the wayleave status of buildings.

Hyperoptic don't even do that. They only list the wayleave status for buildings that have tried to have them installed.

If I pick a random MDU Hyperoptic have nothing about the wayleave status.
You're picking selective examples to make a ridiculous arguement.

The wayleave status for Hyperoptic is shown after you click the "Check my progress" button.

Here's one https://hyperoptic.com/register-interest/?pafid=6004403 Chambord House. Tower Hamlets Homes association.

And here's another again Tower Hamlets Homes for Sidney Street. https://hyperoptic.com/register-interest/?pafid=6030011 Sure here it doesn't show the wayleave status. But it did show it before. Now after the installations have went ahead, they removed the wayleave status. However, it now shows "We're on our way!"

"We're bringing our full fibre network to your area and it looks like you'll be able to order service in January."

Even though the wayleave status is absent for this particular MDU, it already is indicative by the the fact that the service will go live in January.

All buildings under this housing association will have at least a wayleave status shown as "building permission granted"

You obviously haven't clicked the "Check my progress" button. Number 3 shows 3

Building permission granted

"We have an agreement to proceed with our installation for your building."

or

Building permission needed

"We are yet to request permission to install Hyperoptic Full Fibre broadband to your building."
Or it will show "We are yet to receive permission to install Hyperoptic Full Fibre broadband to your building."

The latter is how it used to show for my postcode E1 6DJ and the building next E1 6LW. It got subsequently removed because my management team refused to grant them wayleave in 2015 to 2018. I did my best to try and convince them as a Hyperoptic Champion, I was unsuccessful but at least I know it's definitively not going to happen for us and that's all that matters.

You could argue that I am using selective examples but at least they tell us in details what's going on, including the surveys.

Now I understand Hyperoptic mainly concentrate on MDU's and they also have specialized representatives for each MDU's which, you can contact for further clarification.

Openreach currently don't provide you with that same level of clarity. I can vouch that many of these checkers that show
"We're starting to build our ultra-fast, ultra-reliable Full Fibre broadband in your area."
They will not be upgraded and many of us who were once excited will be let down! I'd rather be told I am straightaway rejected then being put on hold with the hope that it will happen when it will not! The wayleave hasn't even been granted and yet they claim that they'll start to build in the area, now that's ridiculous and misleading!

I'm also speaking on behalf of some observations that I've seen of excited individuals commenting on ISPreview regarding this new checker where they think they'll get it by December 2026. They are frustrated that they have to wait till this long, when in reality some of them won't even get it at all. This checker should teach us that we need to be more philosophical and not get our hopes up!

It looks like this has gone live now, it's what I'm being served by going to the Openreach homepage. The ADSL estimates are still wrong.

In reply to a post by jpm:

It looks like this has gone live now, it's what I'm being served by going to the Openreach homepage. The ADSL estimates are still wrong.

It's not Live yet.

I don't know what to tell you Max, when I go to openreach.com I am served the new checker.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I don't know what to tell you Max, when I go to openreach.com I am served the new checker.

Same here.

They added on it. I expecting new live go sometimes next week but have to wait for official from openreach.

Same here but still giving erroneous info, is up to 1mbs really going to allow HD streaming.

Superfast Fibre Broadband

0-1 Mbps

download speed

0 - 1 Mbps
upload speed
Perfect for:

Benefit Icon
Smaller families

Benefit Icon
Streaming HD TV

Benefit Icon
Connecting 20+ devices

Benefit Icon
Online gaming

In reply to a post by kommando:

Same here but still giving erroneous info, is up to 1mbs really going to allow HD streaming.

Superfast Fibre Broadband

0-1 Mbps

download speed

0 - 1 Mbps
upload speed
Perfect for:

Benefit Icon
Smaller families

Benefit Icon
Streaming HD TV

Benefit Icon
Connecting 20+ devices

Benefit Icon
Online gaming

it says i can get up to 24Mb/s on standard broadband, I presume that is ADSL, I would be lucky to get 3Mb/s, not so bad if it said up to 5Mb/s.
I presume they are taking the maximum speed that ADSL can cope with not really checking to see what speed is up here. I suppose if they used a phone number to check and not just a postcode, it may be better.
It is not a good checker, all it is saying is what technology is available really, FTTH, FTTC or ADSL. I am surprised that they have ADSL there, I thought they would want to blank it out.

Looking at the 1000Mb/s FTTH, I notice uploads are 220Mb/s, that is not a lot for a super-duper fast connection. I really thought witht he money Openreach have got and for the size of the company and all the money that have been put into it from different schemes supported by government and local councils and the T.V licence, that Out of reach would have built something better.
If a new company can come around and build something that is more up to date, then why can't out of reach?

Mine say here:

Build not announced

Ultrafast Full Fibre Broadband

Up to

1000 Mbps

download speed
Up to
220 Mbps
upload speed

Available now

Gfast Fibre Broadband

330-330 Mbps

download speed
32 - 50 Mbps
upload speed

Available now

Superfast Fibre Broadband

78-80 Mbps

download speed
19 - 20 Mbps
upload speed

Available now

Standard Broadband

Up to

17 Mbps

download speed
Up to
1 Mbps
upload speed

These matched BTw Checker

Address ********************** on Exchange CUCKOO OAK is served by Cabinet 8
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) help 80 79 20 19 74 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 80 78.2 20 19 73.4 Available Available
G.fast Range A (Clean) help 330 330 50 44.6 330 Green Green
G.fast Range B (Impacted) help 330 330 50 32.4 329.4 Green Green
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 330 50 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 17 -- 10 to 19.5 Available
WBC ADSL2+ Annex M Up to 17 Up to 1.5 10 to 19.5 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
SOADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) WBC SOADSL Availability Date Left in Jumper
WBC SOADSL 2+ Up to 17 -- 10 to 19.5 -- --
SOADSL Fixed Rate Up to 2 -- -- --
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
G.Fast Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal N
SOADSL Restriction Y

The network Openreach built is perfectly capable of much higher upload speeds than the 115 they sell to residential and the 220 they sell to businesses with a £500 install fee and much higher monthly charge.

They made a conscious business decision not to offer higher upload speeds, nothing more to it than that.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

The network Openreach built is perfectly capable of much higher upload speeds than the 115 they sell to residential and the 220 they sell to businesses with a £500 install fee and much higher monthly charge.

They made a conscious business decision not to offer higher upload speeds, nothing more to it than that.

It can't do Symmetrical and the according to plusnet checker their 74Mb/s service, only offers a 40Mb/s minimum guaranteed speed. Is that an open reach problem or a Plusnet problem?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

It can't do Symmetrical

That's a commercial decision not to do so. Cityfibre use identical GPON technology, and they do offer symmetrical services.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

and the according to plusnet checker their 74Mb/s service, only offers a 40Mb/s minimum guaranteed speed. Is that an open reach problem or a Plusnet problem?

It's not really a problem at all. Because a PON is shared (by up to 32 users) they can't guarantee full throughput at all times - or they would be foolish to do so.

In practice, the chances of the PON being saturated are very low most of the time. If you have a few numpties with gigabit services caning them continuously, it does introduce contention though. Also: Plusnet may be making allowance for possible congestion on their transit connections.

In practice, I'd take an 80Mbps FTTP over an "up to" 80Mbps FTTC any day of the week - even though the FTTC connection is unshared up to the DSLAM.

It doesn't matter does it? I thought you weren't interested in FTTP.

In reply to a post by jpm:

It doesn't matter does it? I thought you weren't interested in FTTP.

Was waiting for this haha

In reply to a post by candlerb:

That's a commercial decision not to do so. Cityfibre use identical GPON technology, and they do offer symmetrical services.

That is a bit silly, certainly with other providers that offer it.

It's not really a problem at all. Because a PON is shared (by up to 32 users) they can't guarantee full throughput at all times - or they would be foolish to do so.

In practice, the chances of the PON being saturated are very low most of the time. If you have a few numpties with gigabit services caning them continuously, it does introduce contention though. Also: Plusnet may be making allowance for possible congestion on their transit connections.

Some people may find it a problem and it may be off-putting to some people, I suppose it is better than BT, they only offer a 34Mb/s guaranteed speed. As more and more people get onto Fibre then that will slow it down, certainly as more people uses broadband for media use.

In practice, I'd take an 80Mbps FTTP over an "up to" 80Mbps FTTC any day of the week - even though the FTTC connection is unshared up to the DSLAM.

I can't get 80Mb/s FTTC, I don't think i would have bothered even if I could as i have said before, never had the need for anything faster than what I have,

In reply to a post by jpm:

It doesn't matter does it? I thought you weren't interested in FTTP.

Not interested in having it or not interested in FTTP itself? There is a difference.
I am interested in how it works and certain things about it., but not bothered about having it. The thing is I am hearing that by the time my contract have ended I may have little choice now that we have fibre here. I went for a walk to the shop this morning and was talking to someone who lives close by and their contract for EE is up soon, and they have been having emails from EE about renewing their contract, but the only options they have been given is fibre. I said that was quick, openreach fibre have only just been connected around here. I said I presume if he phoned them up they would offer him FTTC if he pushed for it, but he is looking at Zzoomm. so it seems like providers are pushing it already, so god knows what it will be like in June.

I don't want a 24 month contract and this seems to be the thing with FTTP, Now broadband offers 12 months FTTC for £20 at the moment, even if it goes up by a couple of quid before the end of my contract, it may still be worthwhile going to Now, even if it is sky.

If you're in an FTTP priority exchange then your ISP can't send any orders to Openreach that involve copper services, on top of that there will be an incentive for these providers to move people to FTTP (Equinox, retiring old voice platforms quicker etc.) I wouldn't expect any amount of asking nicely with mass-market ISPs to result in them offering you FTTC when you're in an FTTP area - they want you moved, Openreach want you moved.

Your desire for a short-term contract but also the lowest cost providers I feel are two incompatible objectives.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Some people may find it a problem and it may be off-putting to some people

In which case they're welcome to pay £300 a month + VAT for a service that will guarantee speeds at gigabit.

If they lied about the guarantee I imagine you'd be among the first with the torch and pitchfork.

The sharing is why we pay what we do and we'd probably be paying less if people didn't get uppity at the first sniff of not getting what they think they pay for, though to be fair they're only following the example of the regulator.

I've had comments made on my service due to it dropping 5-6% speed at peak times. The horror.

In reply to a post by jpm:

If you're in an FTTP priority exchange then your ISP can't send any orders to Openreach that involve copper services, on top of that there will be an incentive for these providers to move people to FTTP (Equinox, retiring old voice platforms quicker etc.) I wouldn't expect any amount of asking nicely with mass-market ISPs to result in them offering you FTTC when you're in an FTTP area - they want you moved, Openreach want you moved.

Your desire for a short-term contract but also the lowest cost providers I feel are two incompatible objectives.

Now does a 12-month contract for £20 a month on FTTC, that is sort term and low cost. I don't know if now will change to fibre, at the moment they don't do fibre,
One of the reasons I went for smarty for my phone is no contract. 18 months I can just about cope with, but i don't want 24 months, there is no need for them to be that long.


i just wonder what they will do if I don't want to move, if the infrastructure is still working and as far as i know it will stay working for years, even if it is just for digital voice, then how can they refuse the order?
We will see closer to when the time comes, but I am not impressed.
where they would put the ONT would not be ideal, it means I would have to have an Ethernet cable going from the ONT to the wan of my router and then another one from the lan back towards to where the ONT is, to the switch that is connected to my TV, my Blueway player and VoIP. gkw in the post Fibre install to inside my garage said about
running WAN & LAN over the same CAT6, that may solve the problem, but I did not even know that was possible

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In which case they're welcome to pay £300 a month + VAT for a service that will guarantee speeds at gigabit.

If they really want gigibit, but all this stuff about having gigabit fibre is a lie then, or bending the truth, year we will install a system that can give you gigabit and you will pay for it, but you may not get it

If they lied about the guarantee I imagine you'd be among the first with the torch and pitchfork.

One of the reasons they changed the quoted speeds of FTTC to average is because people complained about the speeds they were getting. I am getting the average speed on my connection, someone in the next street may get a bit faster because they are closer to the cabinet. Broadband have never been the fastest available here, ADSL+ was about 3Mb/s max here, due to length of cable and FTTC is the same, the lower end of the speed that the technology can do because of distance of cabinet.
when I first had ADSL in 2000 at around half a Mb/s it was better than dial up and I could do more, the same when going to 3Mb's ADSL and then FTTC , but those speed increases were required because we started doing more on the internet and now we use it for video and music and running smart homes and working from home.

Yes, fibre is great if there are a few people in the house and their FTTC connection get saturated, I presume that is why a house a couple of doors down got Zzoomm, four in the house, including two teenage girls.

But it is only me here.

The sharing is why we pay what we do and we'd probably be paying less if people didn't get uppity at the first sniff of not getting what they think they pay for, though to be fair they're only following the example of the regulator.

I can understand the sharing is to cut costs, but the way FTTP is being sold makes people think it is the best thing since sliced bread and they will get their super-duper speed all the time, until they read the small print.

I've had comments made on my service due to it dropping 5-6% speed at peak times. The horror.

This person I was chatting to yesterday was saying that over the last week, since Openreach turned on their FTTP here, his broadband have gone slower, he seems to think it is being down on purpose to get him to change. Mine is fine, still at 36Mb/s, but then I have not had emails from Plusnet about changing. The offer I had was when I logged into plusnet site to check something. I noticed the offer have gone now, maybe they realised it was a silly offer. Would broadband providers slow down people FTTC connection just to get them to change?

5-6% could be a fair bit depending on the original speed.
As i said, mine is fine, I have had slow-downs, but not many and they normally affect downloads more than streaming, in fact the only streaming problem, I have had for a while is with You Tube.

oh well I have to go to work, back there after a week off sadly.

Can you all keep this thread to openreach checker only! If you to want to discuss FTTP or FTTC please use new thread.

Yes Max, well no actually considering your past posts LOL

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Would broadband providers slow down people FTTC connection just to get them to change?

No.

FTTC is a rate-adaptive technology: it adjusts its sync speed to compensate for the actual condition of the line. This is why longer lines achieve lower speeds than shorter ones.

However, it is also common that the sync speed on any given line reduces over time. The main reasons are:

1. Crosstalk: as more FTTC users on the same cabinet are enabled, their signals interfere with each other. See https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2014/vector...

2. Physical degradation of the line, especially joints in the cable which corrode with water ingress.

You do not need to invoke any conspiracy theories to explain this.

With FTTP, the sync speed is fixed at 2.4Gbps down, 1.2Gbps up (that is for today's GPON technology: newer generations are faster). Either it works, or it doesn't. Your usable speed, to match the level of service you have bought, is controlled by the OLT in the exchange, by rate-limiting your packets.

But unlike FTTC, this bandwidth is shared between a number of users on the same PON. Most households use less than 5Mbps *on average* over 24 hours, so the statistical multiplexing means that this is very rarely a problem - a short peak while user A is making a large download is usually at a different time to when user B is doing one.

The higher "gigabit" speeds are so that your big downloads take a shorter time, i.e. you get the job done quicker. They are not intended for 24x7 gigabit saturation. If you want that, then as others have said, buy a leased line: you get a dedicated fibre and guaranteed bandwidth.

A boring explanation is that pulling fibre through ducts and disturbing joint closures while working in chambers is going to move existing copper around, either impacting poor joints or moving lines closer together so they can start to affect each other with crosstalk. It's no conspiracy, and it highlights a reason why there is a huge push to get people away from rate adaptive copper services.

The checker, as we all know, is not working properly so why continue posting about it?

A good point. Especially with (potentially multiple) AltNet overbuild + Openreach in the same duct space / chambers…

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Can you all keep this thread to openreach checker only! If you to want to discuss FTTP or FTTC please use new thread.

Okay.

I tried it. It gave the correct result: the only Openreach option is FTTP available up to 1000/220. Then it gave a bunch of marketing about why FTTP is great.

Other than people with copper posting how incorrect its results are and how it's mostly marketing with zero care for the actual speeds predicted only with which technology is available I'm not sure what else I can say.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

FTTC is a rate-adaptive technology: it adjusts its sync speed to compensate for the actual condition of the line. This is why longer lines achieve lower speeds than shorter ones.

Yep, I know it is rate-adaptive technology, just like ADSL is.

However, it is also common that the sync speed on any given line reduces over time. The main reasons are:

1. Crosstalk: as more FTTC users on the same cabinet are enabled, their signals interfere with each other. See https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2014/vector...

2. Physical degradation of the line, especially joints in the cable which corrode with water ingress.

My sync speed have increased a little bit over the last few months, which is strange, I know what crosstalk is. . Physical degradation of the line, yes,, the copper is pretty old in some places, I remember when a mate had a load of problems with his broadband when he had ADSL, and they found out eventually that it was a problem with the main cable going back to the exchange, took a long time to sort it out. Those cables had been there for many years, as it is in one of the older parts of the city.
I am surprised mine is working as well as it is considering the age of the cable coming up here, years ago when I was on ADSL they were going to replace the cables from the pole to my house, it never happened. The cables going to my house and my next door neighbour hangs down so low compared to others.

You do not need to invoke any conspiracy theories to explain this.

I did not say they would, I asked if they would, remember the days of so-called bandwidth management or traffic shaping, they could do it again to get people to jump to FTTP. I am not saying they would, but nothing would surprise me to get people to do what they want., companies seems to do that, look at the way supermarkets are doing things to try to get more people to use self service checkouts or scan and shop.

With FTTP, the sync speed is fixed at 2.4Gbps down, 1.2Gbps up (that is for today's GPON technology: newer generations are faster). Either it works, or it doesn't. Your usable speed, to match the level of service you have bought, is controlled by the OLT in the exchange, by rate-limiting your packets.

But unlike FTTC, this bandwidth is shared between a number of users on the same PON. Most households use less than 5Mbps *on average* over 24 hours, so the statistical multiplexing means that this is very rarely a problem - a short peak while user A is making a large download is usually at a different time to when user B is doing one.

I knew it was shared, I did not think it was shared by so many.

The higher "gigabit" speeds are so that your big downloads take a shorter time, i.e. you get the job done quicker. They are not intended for 24x7 gigabit saturation. If you want that, then as others have said, buy a leased line: you get a dedicated fibre and guaranteed bandwidth.

This is why I have said I don't need high speeds and don't need FTTC, files I do download are normally small, and they take a few minutes if that, maybe when i get back into video producing, which I want to start doing next year the faster speed may be useful, more uploading than down. But even so, I can wait for a little longer to upload a video.

It is like people who buy a super-duper speedy computer for say video editing that makes littler difference to editing, but they get excited because they cut 30 seconds off rendering a video. Sure, if they do a load of videos, then it may save time.
I know what you are going to say, it is not just about speed, it is about reliability. Mine have been fine since that issue I had about 2 and half years ago, my main problem at the moment seems to be routers, for some reason I am having problems with them, now my old plusnet hub seems to be probematic.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

Okay.

I tried it. It gave the correct result: the only Openreach option is FTTP available up to 1000/220. Then it gave a bunch of marketing about why FTTP is great.

Other than people with copper posting how incorrect its results are and how it's mostly marketing with zero care for the actual speeds predicted only with which technology is available I'm not sure what else I can say.

It just gives me 3 options, FTTC, FTTP and ADSL and all it tells me is what each is perfect for, that is it.
so i know I can get all three,

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

My sync speed have increased a little bit over the last few months, which is strange

Oh yes, it varies by time of year too.

When I was on FTTC, my sync speed was ~35M in winter and ~30M in summer. But some people have reported seeing the trend the other way round.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Oh yes, it varies by time of year too.

When I was on FTTC, my sync speed was ~35M in winter and ~30M in summer. But some people have reported seeing the trend the other way round.

Not that I check it all the time, but I have not noticed it change at different times of the year. I think it has gone faster because they changed something in the cabinet, that is why my old router can now sync where before it would not sync at all.

There is DLM as a factor too. For example, if DLM decides your line is good enough, it can move you from a 6dB SNR target to a 3dB SNR target, with a corresponding increase in speed. It can take weeks or even months before it decides to do that.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

There is DLM as a factor too. For example, if DLM decides your line is good enough, it can move you from a 6dB SNR target to a 3dB SNR target, with a corresponding increase in speed. It can take weeks or even months before it decides to do that.

Except those on a good line (G.fast) default at 3dB SNR.

Yep all those millions of people. Not 😂

6dB does not necessarily mean a bad line! When I first switched to FTTC (TalkTalk) in February 2020 following the EO Line upgrade in October 2019 I remember syncing at 80/20Mbps at all times for around 6-9 months.

I was having noise margins of 6.40dB for downstream and for upload it was 15.40dB. https://i.imgur.com/0oZtZHE.jpg
I had a line attenuation of 17.90dB! Yet my speeds were always better. After 9 months or so my noise margin has now permanently dropped to 3dB though this time it was still syncing same speeds.

After a year or so due to crosstalk I no longer sync at 80Mbps, more like 74-76Mbps. After 2 years being with TalkTalk FTTC I migrated to BT due to price hikes and thinking that BT might have improved speeds. https://i.imgur.com/UrfEYfh.jpg

Data rate:18.882 Mbps / 74.519 Mbps
Maximum data rate:18.882 Mbps / 77.039 Mbps
Full Fibre (FTTP) Mode:Off
Noise margin:6.1 / 3.3
Line attenuation:10.6 / 16.8

These have been my speeds since joining BT in July. We can see that despite having a lower line attenuation of 16.8dB with BT this time vs 17.9dB with TalkTalk my sync speeds are lower. I have not achieved 20Mbps upload or had speeds any higher than 75Mbps with BT.

This suggests that crosstalk is now showing its negative impact. The only positive we see with this new checker is it gives us speed estimates for FTTC without needing to go to the https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com site. Checker may show VDSL Range A (Clean) help 80 60 20 16.5 55 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 80 55 20 14.5 46.5 Available Available
or Available now

Superfast Fibre Broadband

55-80 Mbps

download speed
14 - 20 Mbps
upload speed

But the truth is that I have not synced at 80Mbps so far. I won't complain about a few megs. The only change I am seeing is that my line attenuation is 16.8dB as opposed to the 17.90-18.20dB with TalkTalk. This is kinda strange as lower attenuation should indicate shorter line to cabinet. But crosstalk appears to be the biggest cause of this reduction.

Noise margin remaining at 6dB as opposed to 3dB does not mean a lesser stability of the line, it just means there's no crosstalk. Crosstalk means DLM is trying to achieve the higher sync speeds but at 3dB since it's failing to sync at 80Mbps at 6dB.

I've heard and read stories of people where once certain postcodes from a particular cabinet that suffered crosstalk had upgraded to FTTP that relieved crosstalk impact for that FTTC customer as less customers are now overloading the FTTC cabinet. So it is quite possible that if my area or postcodes that were using my cabinet switched to FTTP. FTTC speeds should return back to 80Mbps. But I guess by the time that happens we will all naturally migrate to FTTP and won't care about FTTC.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

There is DLM as a factor too. For example, if DLM decides your line is good enough, it can move you from a 6dB SNR target to a 3dB SNR target, with a corresponding increase in speed. It can take weeks or even months before it decides to do that.

The router I am using at the moment can't show SNR, but at the moment it is synced at 39Mb/s. I know about DLM, I had enough of DLM with ADSL, thankfully it is much better with FTTC.
The problem I have at the moment is with this router, it keeps rebooting for some reason. It has not done so for a couple of days, so maybe it has sorted itself out, we will see.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

The problem I have at the moment is with this router, it keeps rebooting for some reason. It has not done so for a couple of days, so maybe it has sorted itself out, we will see.

https://vic.bg/jokes/there-was-an-engineer-manager-a...

before the change of the site, it reported we had G.Fast available (i'm currently on 330Mbps G.Fast), now it just says upto 80Mbps, with the FTTH saying build not annouced.

Where I am, half the streets have G.Fast or upto 80Mbps, while others have had FTTH installed. I contacted Openreach and they mentioned it would be around June 2024 when we would be upgraded from G.Fast to FTTH.