Partial FTTP install in an MDU?

Hoping for some advice!

I am renting a flat in an apartment block (MDU), all the single homes in the estate have FTTP available but not my block of flats. Looking at Broadband checker's online it is very very slow copper or nothing for my flat (so currently get by on 4G). But this white box is installed in the communal cupboard downstairs (photo link below), would I be right in thinking this is part of an FTTP install?

https://ibb.co/nBrD8Jw
https://ibb.co/vvK1tdZ

I contacted Openreach but they ignored me asking if the white box meant FTTP was already installed in the block but not on the database. They told me the property was part of their Ultrafast Full Fibre build plan (with no confirmed date) and to register my interest at the Openreach fibre checker as their records indicate Openreach dont have legal permission to deliver full fibre broadband to the building. Filling out the fibre checker as they suggest, the auto email that comes back states the building isn't part of its broadband plans...

Openreach never told me about it, but I found this form online, is my best bet just to fill in this (and get my landlord and managing agent to do the same) then hope for the best, or best to try and contact Openreach to clarify do you think? (not that I can find an easy way to speak to a human!!)

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fibre-for-...

Thanks in advance! (apologies in advance if any of this is a stupid question!)

When you contacted openreach method did you use?

Given they’ve already got that fibre box in your communal area it seems odd you can’t order it. That suggests your building owner and openreach have already agreed wayleave etc.

There’s an option on the openreach site to raise a question ‘ I cannot get fibre but my neighbours can’ that would be my next option.

https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-avai...

The 12f cable is dated November 2017 and quotes the splitter the cable is terminated at ( or potentially a node rather than a splitter node ) , TMAHFDO , but overall it is pretty incomplete installation, , there are no individual fibre cables ( one to each flat/apartment ) leaving the block , and the block itself has no designation ( no identification numbers ) , it’s entirely possible given that in 2017 the developer had to chose Yes or No for FTTP, and if Yes , had contribute towards the costs of FTTP , they chose not to , but as OR were present providing ( for free ) a copper connection anyway, they thought it prudent ( for future development) to provide the fibre cable as well as the copper pairs .

As you apparently have access to this utility area , presumably is there also a copper DP , with distribution cables to each flat and their conventional copper master sockets.

If that’s the case , all that has happened is a fibre cable was provided, and makes FTTP provision no more or less likely than if the fibre cable didn’t exist at all , it just means that there will potentially be a smaller amount of work for Openreach when their FTTP is eventually provided, unless the cable provided is to the wrong location , in which case it may be redundant anyway.

Edited by Iniltous (Sun 28-Jan-24 19:52:22)

My guess is no permission from the block of flats owners to run fibre into the flats.

could it have been an fttpod install when it only installed to that flat or house.

Stupid Question, have you spoken to your landlord ( i do understand that may be tricky !)?

Thanks everyone for the replies! Thanks for the link to the form Kris, that is the one that I used to contact them, but I can't remember if i put ‘ I cannot get fibre but my neighbours can’ or 'Other' then asked if the box meant the block had fibre.

Thanks for the explanation Iniltous, the fibre label all meant nothing to me! Not sure when the estate was finally finished, It was scheduled for 2016 i think.. (but I vaguely remember hearing somewhere that it might have been delayed, perhaps I should check with my landlord if that 2017 date was before or after the building was completed/people moved in. If it was delayed/over budget i can imagine the developer being too tight to pay for fttp.But would be even more confusing if the fibre install was after the developers had handed over the building!

if that white box was installed during the building of the block, then I guess that would link with what Opereach/Zarjaz suggest that Openreach currently don't have permission to wire up the flats from the box in the communal cupboard.

In reply to Taras, yeah I have spoken to my landlord, he has been really good about it, I think he is no wiser than me as to what is happening! He is more than happy for an FTTP install if it could happen! He has also tried to look into it and said he recently asked one of the broadband companies in a store somewhere if FTTP was available for my flat, but they told him not currently available and not for the next 6 months (in line with the openreach fibre checker, but not what the openreach customer service person said to me after my enquiry).

Shame that the partial install doesn't make it any more likely that Openreach will come back and finish the install! I guess for now all I can do is give Openreach the building management company's details and landlord details and hope they agree a wayleave and come back to finish the job at some point in the future!

https://www.openreach.com/broadband-for-landlords

thats the section for landlords on OR's site, so direct him to that.

At one stage MDUs and other large developments had to pay to install the FTTP equipment but thats now changed and its far easier (others can expend on that - as i can't remember what the current situation is and if it can apply to your landlord)

I doubt that, there’s no feed cable leaving to run to anywhere by the looks of it.

I wonder if that box is just for one floor ?

Could the OP tell us how many flats are in that block please ?

Thanks for the link to the page for landlords, that looks perfect to send on to my landlord, perhaps if me and the landlord also try and give the management company a nudge to do that form, there might be some progress!

Great that FTTP installs in MDU's are now easier than when the building developer appears to have cheaped out on the broadband front in the past!

Oops missed Zarjaz's reply above, there are 6 flats across 3 floors in the building (with two on each floor)

It's very weird that things would have progressed far enough for there to be a fibre cable in a communal area but to have gone no further. I'm wondering if it being 2017 is relevant, like Openreach were unable to satisfy the freeholder's requirements for fire stopping of the new cabling they were installing, and everybody was more aware of that.

Is there anybody around still who remembers how that box came to be there in the first place?

If you get nowhere then I'd reluctantly go down the email to Clive Selley route and explain how you've tried the official channels and people aren't taking on board what you are saying. Providing the details on that tag will ensure it gets to the relevant person responsible for FTTP in that area who will probably figure out that it's an install done by a contractor and never reported as completed which then disappeared off everyone's radar.

Edited by jpm (Sun 28-Jan-24 21:40:42)

So a twelve fibre is ample. There ought to be (at that time, an Eezee bend cable from there to each flat …… that clearly didn’t happen.

Good luck

In reply to a post by Taras:

could it have been an fttpod install when it only installed to that flat or house.

MDU's have always been excluded from ordering FTTPoD.

In reply to a post by jpm:

If you get nowhere then I'd reluctantly go down the email to Clive Selley route and explain how you've tried the official channels and people aren't taking on board what you are saying. Providing the details on that tag will ensure it gets to the relevant person responsible for FTTP in that area who will probably figure out that it's an install done by a contractor and never reported as completed which then disappeared off everyone's radar.

i think too many have over used Clive Selley's email.. but i think it may end up there if Dan exhausts normal routes which would be a shame .

Hmm the timing of this makes me think it might be when OR pulled doing MDUs. My block was affected around then, all systems go to wire it up but then a change of plans and it never got wired by OR (to this day). Hyperoptic did though soon after.

I wonder if they started doing this then abandoned it?

I looks to me like it was completed but there is a database issue preventing orders being taken.

Hi Everyone, thank you for all the help and advice! Much appreciated!!

The Clive Selley route suggested by jpm is a good shout, although as Taras cautions, if has been overused in past, maybe I should try a more official channel again first..

Given people's thoughts it sounds like there are a few different options for what has happened from a database error to an aborted install part of the way through.

I was all prepared to send the landlord link to my landlord and contact Openreach via the same form as a tenant and explicitly ask them to check what the situation with the building and please reply to me by email. (then would contact Clive if I didn't recieve a reply after a week or so)

But.. after Iniltous mentioned about the copper DP, I thought I would do bit more digging around in the communal cupboard when i got home from work.

I think this is the copper DP
https://ibb.co/pvMK1wF

and following the cable back to where it comes through a duct (in the same place as the fibre cable) there is a label on the thick black copper cable dated 20/4/15. So this means the copper was installed over 18 months before the fibre line which is dated 21/11/17.
https://ibb.co/GpRk66z

Would I be right in thinking there is no way Openreach would install this (after the original building of the block) without a wayleave, so there must be one in place? so it must either be a database issue or a aborted install for some reason? (if it is a database issue, perhaps they can sort pretty quickly?)

unfortunately most people in the block rent, so no one around from back then!

Any other company I would just ring them up to try and explain the issue, but not an option with Openreach, so not sure weather to brave the online form again and perhaps say there is a database/install issue rather than asking or hope they don't ignore my question about a database issue again (if they do, then going to Clive) or weather to use one of the apartment MDU forms to contact them.

I guess the important thing to have in place before you start any of this is some positive noise from your freeholder that they would actually permit the installation of FTTP to each apartment - without that then everything else is sort of academic.

In reply to a post by dan_cornwall:

Hi Everyone, thank you for all the help and advice! Much appreciated!!

The Clive Selley route suggested by jpm is a good shout, although as Taras cautions, if has been overused in past, maybe I should try a more official channel again first..

I have used the Selley route twice myself, the first time there wasn't anything that could be done, I just had to wait 🙈. The second time there was/should be a positive outcome by around april! I only used that route, because of the amount times the fttp build got put back! I even got two different build dates within 20 minutes last year!. But the whole thing in general had become - oh you have a problem email Selley - that isn't fair on OR.

In reply to a post by dan_cornwall:

Given people's thoughts it sounds like there are a few different options for what has happened from a database error to an aborted install part of the way through.

You do but i also think this is your landlords' problem more than yours even though you want fttp waaaaaaay more.

In reply to a post by dan_cornwall:

I was all prepared to send the landlord link to my landlord and contact Openreach via the same form as a tenant and explicitly ask them to check what the situation with the building and please reply to me by email. (then would contact Clive if I didn't recieve a reply after a week or so)

I think that may be the best way and him to chase or as there is some weirdities going on. If he gets fobbed off, then i think the selley route makes sense.

Hi jpm and taras,

Your right, that chatting to the freeholder management company is a good shout, as taras mentions, I need to get my landlord involved in this. Hopefully the management company can suggest they are happy for it to be installed and/or they might have documentation relating to the 2017 partial fibre install.

Then me and the landlord can contact Openreach and hope for the best..

Good to hear the Selley route can work if OR normal channels just refuse to listen or answer the question on the potential database issue.

Will have a think about how an earth I can concisely explain this thread on how OR have installed a bit but not all of the fibre to the building to my landlord!

Dan,

I wasn't trying to "oh well it worked for me" but more to try and avoid it .

Your landlord has to be 100% behind this, which from what you say, will be the case. The Management company will be more worried how it will be serviced and what happens if somebody just leaves and not pays it . And also who pays it etc. That may affect existing contracts.

It may be better for your landlord to play dumb at this stage and say to OR "how do i get fibre into all of my mdu units?" and go from there. If you mention the cable at this stage it may confuse things. wait for the field survey and causally mention the fibre cable !

Will have a think about how an earth I can concisely explain this thread on how OR have installed a bit but not all of the fibre to the building to my landlord!

OR have already installed the fibre DP (distribution point) in the building. But then your permission will be required to run a new cable from the riser cupboard to the flat itself.

In reply to a post by dan_cornwall:

Would I be right in thinking there is no way Openreach would install this (after the original building of the block) without a wayleave, so there must be one in place?

No that isn't necessarily the case.
Openreach already have access agreements to communual/telecom cupboards in MDU's that they serve.
They need this to upgrade/replace broken kit, even if it is just a copper DP and some copper pairs.
Getting from the coms cupboard to individually apartments/flats is a very different story.

They have changed how they deploy FTTP quite a few times in the 10-15 years that they have been rolling it out.

Speak to the landlord and speak to the management company. Ping some emails to the relevant Openreach departments. They are usually pretty good at letting you know the wayleave situation in your building.

I would only go down the emailing the CEO route after trying the normal forms and not getting anywhere. If there's simply no wayleave in place then Clive's team will simply copy/paste you the wayleave links you posted in a previous reply.

Thanks for the further advice tara, zarjaz and john. I have got my head around the extra permission that is needed now, so will borrow the summary from zarjaz to send to my landlord and the management company and send/ get them to fill in the relevant openreach forms. Will make sure I have exhausted normal avenues before i think about any email to Clive.

Thanks for the help everyone! Will come back to the thread and let you know if I have any success!