In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

not really an option for anybody, is it?

ukhardy07 has replied, but I was thinking borrow (or get a market stall to unlock) an android phone, and get the free PAYG SIMs that the networks will send you. Might cost you £10 for an unlock maximum.
Doesn't mean you'll find any network works, but its worth testing, the online maps are generally a complete guess. :-/

In reply to a post by Ribble:

I would imagine Hyperoptic rent the fibre into the building from another telco, possibly even Openreach.

It's owned by the same people originally behind Be isn't it? I was told once that Be's original network was built using the old Openreach BES/WES service so they have form.

Lol. Was just browsing the Hyperoptic FAQ and this caught my eye:

"Q: I have not heard of Hyperoptic, who are you?
A: Hyperoptic is the UK's new full-fibre provider, set to break the speed barrier with 1 Gig downloads. To put this glorious revolution in perspective that's 140 times faster than the UK average. The same team that are now launching Hyperoptic created the UK's breakthrough broadband provider Be Un Limited in 2005. With its full fibre-to-the-exchange network Be broke the upload and download speed limits, won countless awards (including Which? ISP and PC Advisor "Best Buy" year after year) and provided a 24/7 free customer support service that is still winning awards to this day."

https://www.hyperoptic.com/web/guest/faq

Is that 'hyper' as in 'hyperbole'? Are there any exchanges left (esp. those where Be has a presence) that don't use fibre for their backhaul?

Be was ground breaking, but I would not have used the fibre to the exchange idea.

No doubt there are some BT Wholesale only exchanges that are using radio backhaul, but I doubt any LLU operator would want to go to the expense of paying for their own radio backhaul at those sites, or the undoubtedly high cost of new fibre it that were even practical .

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

I can't really "try" all of the networks, either, virtually nobody can, surely?

Manual selection of available networks on most phones does at least show you the coverage by listing available networks, but obviously not the performance. Rules out signing up in a notspot although you have 14 days or whatever return clauses in any case.

In reply to a post by MCM:

I thought the following might be of interest to some.

Background.
I live on a late 1980s development a mile south of the river in central London. The development totals some 75 premises ranging from 2, 3 and 4 bed freehold houses to 1 and 2 bed leasehold flats and studios. The 75 properties collectively own the freehold of the development, each property owner having one share with no third party invovlement. The development is served by EO lines from the Vauxhall (WRVAUX) exchange in Kennington whch is roughly 2km away. None of the properties is served by Virgin Media however all properties in the surrounding area have access to both FTTC via BT and cable via VM. I have for some time been trying to establish the possibilities of the residents on the development obtaining access to NGA broadband.

Mayor and GLA.
I have written to the Mayor and in his he says he cannot help although I note he's happy for all Londoner's to continue to pay for the Olympics via our Council Tax, money that I feel could have been better spent helping all Londoners. I quote below from his reply:

Regrettably, I have to inform you that at this time the GLA is unable to intervene directly in broadband connectivity for residential premises.

BDUK, the government body responsible for promoting broadband connectivity nationally, have two main programmes underway: the Rural Broadband Project that you refer to in your letter, which is resulting in increased FTTC/P roll-out by BT; and the Super Connected Cities Programme (SCCP) from which London will benefit from funding. The SCCP initially intended to address un-served urban areas through a similar approach to the rural project, whereby funding would be used to subsidise roll-out by a private company (most likely BT). This would have included provision for residential premises, however unfortunately due to issues around State aid guidelines and competition law, BDUK has decided to change the scope of the SCCP and this will no longer be possible.

London�s SCCP will now consist primarily of a connection voucher scheme to cover the up-front costs of NGA connections. For budgetary reasons the voucher scheme will need to targeted at small and medium sized enterprises, rather than residential premises, so as to maximise the economic impact of the intervention in London. BDUK is planning to conduct voucher pilot scheme in the summer and following this pilot it is possible that the voucher scheme availability may be extended to a limited number of residential premises. This decision lies with BDUK and the way this may be applied in London is not yet clear, however we will be sure to inform you if we believe your area could benefit from the voucher scheme.

Hyperoptic.
I had earlier contacted Hyperoptic and they subsequently visited the site, carried out a survey and proposed an FTTB solution at a cost of £19K plus VAT with I believe much of this cost being the expense of fitting trunking to the face of the properties to carry gigabit ethernet around the development and also to fit at least two catenaries to carry the ethernet across roadways. This works out at just over £300 per property

BT.
Thanks to Andrew Ferguson who contacted BT on my behalf, BT have now submitted a quote for a network rearrangement that would involve the enablement of a new PCP (Copper Cabinet) and DSLAM (Fibre Cabinet) serving the development and they confirm that the development is outside of their planned commercial deployment for fibre broadband in London. The cost of work for the provision of fibre broadband (provision of Customer Network Services) will be approximately £25K + VAT which works out at £400 per property.

BT's letter refers to this as being a "gap funded" estimate and that if we go ahead, whilst unable to take into account external factors such as power provision, the typical timeline for such deployments is approximately between six and nine months.

Pros and Cons.
Hyperoptic is the cheaper option and would also allow the BT haters on the development to get rid of their BT landlines for good. However there are also a number of disadvantages including being locked in with a single small supplier with a short corporate history, the use of external trunking that some residents consider visually intrusive, and importantly users having no choice as to their ISP.

BT is the more expensive option and being FTTC rather than FTTB speeds would be lower than with Hyperoptic and dependent on the location of the new PCP and its fibre twin. BT haven't yet said where this might be. Visually BT is the more attractive option since it would use their existing trunking. Another significant advantage of going with BT is that residents could use any ISP that connects using BT Wholesale, Sky or TalkTalk.

Conclusion.
We have yet to decide how we should proceed and I am aware that some residents have little interest in faster broadband although hopefully that will change in due course. It appears from what both BT and the mayor have told me that those on EO lines in London are out of luck and will only see NGA broadband if they dig deep as no-one else looks to be willing to help.

What speed do you get on your 2km copper loop length? I'm guessing alot more speed than many people in the UK get. There are many stuck on 512k, 1mbit, 2mbit etc. So I'm glad that BT are choosing to improve the lowest speeds rather than improving the speeds of the shortest adsl lines etc.

Cheers for all the advice re: mobile networks, although for the moment I'm still tied to O2 unless I want to give them a couple of hundred quid for nothing. I did expect 3G in most places of any considerable size, but I don't rely on it for work or anything, so there's no emergency. I suppose in a few months I could get some free SIMs and then phone up the most attractive network and say "Right, look, I'm about to give O2 another 18 months and £450 because they'll give me a newer phone for next to nothing... or, you could match that offer...?"

Sorry to derail the thread, anyway.

Edited by deleted (Tue 23-Jul-13 05:06:06)

Hello MCM

I wanted to respond to a few points raised...

Hyperoptic is privately-funded, recently having secured funding of £50m, It's definitely here to stay.

We offer residents 3 speeds; 20Mb, 100Mb and 1000Mb, offering flexibility and true fibre speeds that are competitively priced, even compared to some ADSL2+ services! The 20Mb service offers, economically, the best value service available in the market today.

Choosing FTTP from Hyperoptic does not mean residents are restricted to just one service provider. If they wish to subscribe to an alternative provider, they are able to do so.

As you're aware, FTTC is not full fibre, the age old issue of speeds being impacted by the distance between the property and the street cabinet remain. There is a strong risk of speeds reducing over time, as mentioned in other threads:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4250327-syn...

Hyperoptic is already upgrading EO lines � we are not reliant on BTO.

In the case of this particular building, the structure of the building adds complexity to the installation process � without existing ducts and risers, there are limitations with regards to the cable route.

Best wishes

Sunita

Edited by deleted (Tue 23-Jul-13 17:32:31)

In reply to a post by Hyperoptic:

Choosing FTTP from Hyperoptic does not mean residents have a choice of one provider. If they wish to subscribe to FTTC, they are able to.

Unless I'm missing something, that's exactly what it means in this case. Either they fund a FTTC/PCP build, or a Hyperoptic build. Residents won't get both.