In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

micro filters isnt a big deal, I tested my old adsl filters on my FTTC and there is no noticeable difference. I didnt test long term use but the sync speed wasnt changed.

The biggest problem I see is if the line/service is faulty on activation, with a self install then its a bad position for the end user.

I remember back to my adsl install back in 2000 I was over the 43db attenuation limit allowed for the service and was a problem on install day, the engineer was a top guy who worked round the problems and got me up and running. He was excited as me as I was the first one in all of leicestershire to have adsl.

I agree, micro-filters in themselves are not the problem (no more than ADSL SSFP's are) However when moving away from centralise filtering to individual filtering, the building extension wiring is brought into the VDSL circuit with its possible bridge taps and non-twisted pair cable, that may have a serious effect on FTTC services.

In reply to a post by systemx:

I agree with you comments about small routers and also that self-install with micro-filters will lead to a poor service for many. But ISP's want a small package so the delivered router will fit through a letter box so there is no need for their customer to retrieve a parcel from the post office should they not be at home when it is delivered.

I can see why they want that, but I still think it will cause more problems.

ISP's also want a cheaper activation fee so that they can offer shorter contracts as there is less to make up during the contract period. so self-install is the way to go, and for most this will use micro-filters unless they wish to install an ssfp

Just like ADSL now.

Only with some packages and some ISps, Bt still got 18 month contracts with ADSL, whihc I think in this day and age is stupid. ISPs want to keep people as long as they can and long contracts is one way of doing it. I am shocked that we don't have 24 months to be honest.

6 months should be the maximum for ADSL these days.


Yes, I know my broadband contract is 24 months, it works on a different principle and the company is a small company and no doubt have to get their money back on the module. I am not sure if I would go for such a long contract again, but I suppose it depends on the circumstances.

In reply to a post by E7er:

You are right routers get smaller and smaller; Orange did supply that small Netgear DGN1000 router. I am not kidding it got frighteningly hot, so hot you could fry an egg on it. Orange stopped supplying it.

After then Orange supplied the even smaller letter box size, "Bright Box 1 router" and you can hardly feel any heat coming from the router, it's a very good small router they supply now. If the Bright Box 2 router performs as good as the earlier model it will be a good bit of kit.


I have never had a router that got hot, warm yes, but not hot. i think the warmest one is my old Safecom, but the case of that is metal and I think it acted as a heat sink as well.

Both netgears was fine even the old 834 one.

all electronics produce heat and if the heat is not being distributed then something is going to go pop at some point. Even my little Tp-link wi-fi adaptor gets warm, sometimes too warm.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

What happens when the HH3 overheats? Any pictures? Mines often very hot. I have noticed it gets far far hotter than any router I've ever personally used (apart from the netgear dg834gt which just boiled away all day).

No pictures, but it was a bit messy, the plastic was all melted on the front. It have been posted back to BT now and I stuck my old Speedtouch in it's place until it is replaced.
My old Netgear Dg 834 was fine, it got warm, but never very hot. the TP-link I got now pushes out a bit of heat at the bottom, which is why I made little stilts for it but I still don't think it is that bad,

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Bt still got 18 month contracts with ADSL, whihc I think in this day and age is stupid. ISPs want to keep people as long as they can and long contracts is one way of doing it. I am shocked that we don't have 24 months to be honest.

We do have 24 month contracts.

Plusnet (part of the BT Group) pushed me into a 24 month contract with that half price deal for 6 months.

That's in spite of Ofcom stating that it wanted minimum contract terms to be shorter (ideally a month).

dont worry ofcom will act, they are currently consulting on how to enforce minimum contracts. They do consider long contracts anti competitive.

What to expect in future is both

1 - vdsl migration fees same as current adsl migration fees. This doesnt mean retail charges will match but makes it likely.
2 - openreach min term reduced to 1 month. This should combined with self install and lower migration fees bring retail min term down to something reasonable.

NOTE: That one 1 month is in relation to the Openreach requirement for a new 12 month contract after a migration.

PlusNet already offers ADSL with 1 month contracts, it may cost more than the longer contracts, but is that wrong if the costs are real?

While the good ISP's can be said to have nothing to fear from short contracts, humans will always chase the best deal, which may mean a higher churn as people chase the next greatest deal and then come back a month or two later when they discover other provider was cheaper due to their lack of bandwidth.

adsl is irrelevant in this case ofcom are consulting on fttc contract lengths.

short term adsl availability doesnt excuse whats happening in the vdsl market.

if you read revk's blog you will eg. see that bt use the same automated process for vdsl migrations as they do for adsl yet vdsl is 5x the cost for a migration.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

PlusNet already offers ADSL with 1 month contracts, it may cost more than the longer contracts, but is that wrong if the costs are real?

It needs to be fixed at the wholesale level - don't openreach have min 12 month contracts?? So until that is fixed ISPs are losing out if they let you cancel earlier.

In reply to a post by E7er:

The Bright Box 2 is designed to complement EE�s own superfast Fibre broadband network

Whose own network? BTw's you mean? EE doesn't have any (BB) network period.

By the modem/router they are just plagiarising BT's latest HH modem/router .

Just as you have just plagiarised EE's own press release w/out attributing it .

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 13-Aug-13 23:01:17)