I already said further up the threat those estimates are very very pessimistic.

I get 46Mb at the moment and my line is 1022m.

I don't get your point about unreliability either. What is so unreliable about FTTC? I've been synced for 200+ days in the past.
My uptime has without any doubt been 99.9%+

It's understandable you're disappointed that you may now be getting FTTC rather than FTTP but you are underestimating both speed and reliability of FTTC.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I already said further up the threat those estimates are very very pessimistic.

I get 46Mb at the moment and my line is 1022m.

I don't get your point about unreliability either. What is so unreliable about FTTC? I've been synced for 200+ days in the past.
My uptime has without any doubt been 99.9%+

It's understandable you're disappointed that you may now be getting FTTC rather than FTTP but you are underestimating both speed and reliability of FTTC.

Shall I tell you why I am afraid of FTTC? Because it still carries the old copper cabling that will still pose a vulnerability of dropping out!

Here's an example of my current connection.

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14066 kbps 1196 kbps
Line Attenuation 25.5 dB 16.1 dB
Noise Margin 10.9 dB 7.7 dB

When noise margin is above 10dB then my connection is stable for days. The max up time here was 56 days. And that is only when my connection drops out and the router re-syncs at a lower speed such as 14000 kbps. When the router re-syncs at a lower speed and my noise margins go up to 9-10dB then my connection is stable for days onwards.

But as soon as the connection tries to re-sync at a higher speed such as 17000-18000 kbps. Yes I do then get between 15-16 Mbps but my connection instantly drops out within a few days to a few hours and bam noise margins drop to 3.0dB. Guess what happens when my noise margins drop to 3.0dB? Upon heavy rain the connection also will drop-out. I've seen the noise margin as low at 0.9dB when I am lucky that my connection is still on. Sometimes it bounces back to 3.0dB. But most of the times it struggles to handle the higher speeds.

I've been struggling with this issue for years. I've tried connecting hidden test socket, changing filters, routers, called a BT Engineer. Nobody can identify a fault. Even changed ISP's. The engineer in fact said it could be something outside that they'll try to find out what's causing this.

Anyway if the connection drops out and my speed gets lowered and noise margin jumps from 3.0dB to 10dB then my connection is stable again. But even then it will drop out once every 20-50 days or so before connection speed re-syncs back to a higher speed. I don't know if this is DLM (Dynamic Line Management) that's doing this. But clearly it does me no favour to re-sync my speed to something higher when the line cannot cope.

Hence why I was so adamant for FTTP for the benefit of the doubt because then I would feel much, much more reassured that this issue will be solved for good. FTTC might somehow rectify the issue as there would be less copper cabling but still can't be 100% certain. As you may know high-rise buildings are notorious for connection stability. In another apartment of ours where we lived for 4 years and that is low rise there were no drop-outs.

As soon as we returned back to our old high rise building I've had problems with drop-outs. This is the building I've been living here since 1992 and there's always been issues with connection stability. In dial-up days the problem was even worse, drop out every 2 hours. In the past I've also had issues with drop-outs almost every day at least once. In recent time the situation has improved somewhat but the problem still persists from time to time.

It seems the (Sky?) DLM isn't working that well on your ADSL2+ line. Why not move to a different ISP such as Xilo or AAISP who can switch off DLM on ADSL2+ TalkTalk based lines? A fixed 6db SNR is a good balance between stability and speed and should easily give you > 15 Mbps on your line. TalkTalk Residential also used to offer the option to switch off DLM but that's no longer the case, hence your only option is moving to a smaller/niche ISP.

FWIW, on my 27db TT ADSL2+ line many moons ago, i used to get roughly 17 Mbps with a 6db SNR with DLM switched off.

Ok, it's confirmed this Cabinet in Hanbury Street is most probably the one connecting my EO Line to FTTC.

Today I just checked the checker.

Result

CONNECT
We're connecting power to the new fibre cabinet and joining the new fibre lines to the existing copper network.
You can't order a fibre service today but typically it'll be available to your premises within the next four months.
Find out more about the fibre journey.

Exchange name: Bishopsgate
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: 5
Technology: -

That means the Bishopsgate Exchange Only lines will not be upgraded with FTTP, but will be upgraded to FTTC. Well, I guess this is at least better than no Fibre at all. Just hope the connection is reliable and won't suffer noise margin issues like before...

So you are presuming ALL exchange only lines on the Bishopsgate exchange are going to use this one cabinet?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

So you are presuming ALL exchange only lines on the Bishopsgate exchange are going to use this one cabinet?

Assuming that I am one of the few people on EO Lines who have yet to be upgraded to FTTC, then I'd think so yes.

The roadblocks that dotmannn posted a couple of weeks ago is the only green cabinet in Hanbury Street that is currently in development.

Now even if this cabinet does not apply for all EO Lines in Bishopsgate. It gives us strong indicators that BT Openreach have little ambition of upgrading EO Lines to FTTP.

The fact that after almost a decade waiting I am now going to get FTTC means that BT have no plans to upgrade my line to FTTP for the foreseeable future. This new cabinet is here to stay for quite a long while.

There is also a recently developed residential block just next to my building, it costs £1.1 million by JLL that property has no FTTP and no plans for FTTC either.

Result icon
We're working with government and industry to explore ways to bring Superfast fibre to as many people as possible but don't have a plan for your area yet.
You might consider co-funding fibre access in your community. Knowing there's a healthy demand in your area can also really help.

Cabinet icon
Exchange name: Bishopsgate
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: 27
Technology: -

So it doesn't appear that that building will be covered with Fibre First Programme either. Seeing how the building owners did not give Hyperoptic Wayleave for them. I even spoke to the JLL agency where they happen to have no plans to agree with Hyperoptic. There's another property also to the left side of my building that only recently about a few months ago got upgraded to FTTC.

Given how almost all EO Lines are going to be upgraded to FTTC, this signals strong impressions that Fibre First is a weak ambition that will barely cover anyone other than a few office buildings and new residential buildings that are in development!

You are projecting your own scenario over a very wide area

In other city centre areas that are more advanced down the Fibre First path, you see a mixture of things e.g. I suggest you take some time looking at central Bristol.

NOTE: Bishopgate has too many EO premises for the one cabinet you have spotted going FTTC to EO lines to serve the whole exchange area.

With the way developers and building owners behave it should be no surprise that often FTTC is often the preferred solution since no problems with getting access into the building to connect every one to the fibre.

3 million FTTP premises and 1.7 million expected in the cities announced
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8062-fibre-first...

I suggest you read the article. Fibre First has never MEANT FTTP for every property on any exchange.

Ok, so I've just had a read on Bristol. http://news.openreach.co.uk/pressreleases/bristol-le...
"More than 97 per cent of Bristol households and businesses already have access to superfast broadband speeds of 24Mbps and above"

"It is expected that tens of thousands of Bristol homes and businesses will benefit from this latest multi million pound expansion."

That means what we are seeing here is that less than 3% of Bristol will be upgraded to FTTP, assuming they are one of the few who don't have access to FTTC yet?

Surely if 95% of the UK already has access to FTTC then I always question myself who will be the 3 million premises to be upgraded with FTTP initially by Openreach? Because if it is going to be existing FTTC customers upgraded to FTTP, I'll consider that somewhat unfair considering those such as myself who have waited for almost a decade to finally get FTTC now within the next 4 months.

As I have discussed with others on ISPReview news articles, many others are also in agreement with me that FTTP should be a priority for those who have suffered for long enough on EO Lines without any form of FTTC.

I know wayleave is always going to be a problem because like you've said developers and building owners are often going to be difficult to convince for granting permission. I have this problem last 3 years with my authority giving Hyperoptic wayleave and I'm a Hyperoptic Champion of my building having successfully persuaded 29 neighbours to register their interest more than 3 years ago along with further registered interests from word of mouth. Meanwhile I see buildings within 5 minutes walk from different authorities who easily granted Hyperoptic permissions to install their service. It's all about the authority, unfortunately my authority are hard to convince or are simply disorganised.

Of-course FTTC is a good backbone for now until FTTP does eventually come one day. But I am afraid that if FTTC comes, my building owners/managers may feel even more reluctant about making an agreement with Hyperoptic for FTTP in future. They may find FTTC as a great opportunity to make a lazy excuse for not making an agreement with any other Altnet FTTP provider.

It isn't as straight forward as you make it out to be.

Part of the reason lines like your own are getting upgraded so late is the complexity that comes with EO lines.

There's also the fact that City Centre EO lines get pretty reasonable ADSL.
Have you had to make do with 1.5Mb while waiting for FTTC? Probably not.

Because if it is going to be existing FTTC customers upgraded to FTTP, I'll consider that somewhat unfair considering those such as myself who have waited for almost a decade to finally get FTTC now within the next 4 months.

It just isn't possible (both financially and logistically) to upgrade 3 million premises to FTTP without some overlap with FTTC.

OpenReach have already done the easy pickings. Properties which are still to be covered by "SuperFast" are the most rural/expensive to reach.
It just isn't feasible that these all get FTTP first or we'll all be waiting forever for it to come.

There is also a recently developed residential block just next to my building, it costs £1.1 million by JLL that property has no FTTP and no plans for FTTC either.

That is entirely the developers responsibility. OpenReach would install FTTP for free to new developments when invited on board early on.
If the developer orders a copper only service then that's what OpenReach give them.
It isn't OpenReach's job to pay for an FTTC cabinet either. That again is the developers responsibility.

There will probably still be a considerable amount of FTTP on the Bishopsgate exchange.
It has a huge amount of EO bundles and I would be very surprised if they all got FTTC.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sat 18-Aug-18 13:46:50)

How many premises do you think there are in Bristol?

10,000 is around 5%, which is very different to your doom laden under 3%

In fact around 2.9% of Bristol already has access to FTTP, 1/3rd Openreach, most of the rest Hyperoptic, so if Openreach add at least 10,000 then looking at a result around 7 to 8% (some of the roll-out is already live)

The link I gave you to read, does point out that some of the FTTP is going to be overlay with VDSL2, something we have seen small amounts of in Bristol, but lots more in Northern Ireland

Your situation is totally down to those in control of your building, and it may be that places like this are waiting until 2030 or later.