In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Remove VDSL2 you can use those frequencies on G.fast and guess what the range improves but only at VDSL2 type speeds....

The same would also be true then with an ADSL switch off I assume?

If all the ADSL and VDSL spectrum was available to G.Fast sure the range and speed would both take a dramatic step up from current levels?

The same would also be true then with an ADSL switch off I assume?

Yes, but it would require the agreement of LLU operators.

*OpenReach own all the VDSL2 kit so they can turn that off whenever they want.

I've yet to see a single graph showing how G.Fast drops off at long distances.

G.Fast requires considerably more processing power than VDSL2.
Currently they have 24 port line cards, with the hope of 48 port cards in the near future.

There is a PCP round the corner from me with 768 VDSL2 ports (2x384 Huawei's) and another with 800 ports (2x256 ECI's + 1x288 Huawei).

How are they getting 800 G.Fast ports on a single PCP?

Turn off ADSL and you force considerably more users to take up a VDSL2/G.Fast service.

I've not seen a single source saying they intend to turn off VDSL2 for G.Fast, a single graph showing it works at the current VDSL2 distances, or a single piece of kit that can handle the port densities required.

*There is no OpenReach G.Fast in SLU areas where OpenReach don't run the VDSL2 DSLAM's, like Warwicknet.

The aim which is under consultation with industry is for a very simple product line in Ultrafast enabled exchanges

FTTP where possible
then
SOGEA
SOGFAST

Throwing GEA-FTTC products out, from a slide photo I took on 25th March at one of the consultation meetings.

We are talking 2025 type time frames and not a big overnight switch across the UK but exchange by exchange.

Things like sub LLU would be interesting, but rolling out FTTP might be the answer for those areas.

A lot hinges on how far they can roll out FTTP and what regulations will look like post 2025.

Yes port density is a big issue if looking to replace current volumes of lines with G.fast hence why FTTP is expected to be the default for the majority at that time, leaving the way leave issue premises on just G.fast

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Turn off ADSL and you force considerably more users to take up a VDSL2/G.Fast service.

Which is great in theory, but there are still a considerable number of people who can get faster ADSL(1) or ADSL2 by modulation adjustment on their router than ADSL2+, never mind VDSL2.

G.fast haven't got enough port lines as FTTC got 288 lines while G.fast are very low only get 96 lines? If FTTC switched off where the rest of 192 lines go to?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

G.fast haven't got enough port lines as FTTC got 288 lines while G.fast are very low only get 96 lines?

FTTC has considerably more than 288 lines on a single PCP.
As I pointed out earlier I have 2 local cabinets with 768 and 800 potential ports. Granted the most recent DSLAMs may not have all their line card yet.

G.Fast pods don't have 96 ports yet either.
They still only have 2x24 port line cards. The target is to double that to 2x48 port cards.

If FTTC switched off where the rest of 192 lines go to?

Given the above it's more like where do the other 600-700 lines go.

G.Fast will never replaced VDSL2 from the cabinet without a considerable rollout of FTTP in that area.

They may indeed turn off VDSL2 and leave G.Fast on, but it would need to be very targeted.
As it stands it doesn't seem like a feasible option.

And?

Those forcing ADSL modulation are by default sub USO and should by 2025 have all been fixed.

And not that simple. As you know.

Ofcom are hoping for the 10Mbps USO to be in place by the end of this year, ahead of the government's wish for 2020. There isn't as far as I know any requirement for this to be satisfied by landline connections. Achieving it might also mean the user have to pay thousands of pounds.

2025 is six years ahead. The implication of the post I questioned was that ADSLx should be turned off in the near future. The USO does not have much to do with that. I know quite a few people on my estate able to get over 50Mps FTTC but who are content with sub-6Mbps ADSL2+.

Ofcom (my bold):

Under the USO, eligible homes and businesses will be able to request a connection, where the cost of building it is no more than £3,400.
�
A consumer or business will only have to contribute to the cost of a connection if it exceeds a threshold of £3,400. Above that level, properties can still be connected if they pay the excess costs or do some of the work themselves to help bring costs down.

There is also the option of using alternative technology, such as commercially available satellite outside the USO scheme, or keeping their existing service that delivers a lower speed.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 29-May-19 01:01:28)

In reply to a post by connormill:

If all the ADSL and VDSL spectrum was available to G.Fast sure the range and speed would both take a dramatic step up from current levels?

Kind of, except it wouldn't really be G.Fast any more.

A number of countries use VDSL profile 35b with speeds up to 250/25, which makes more sense as an "upgrade" to VDSL. You don't get speeds any worse than VDSL, and if you're close to the cabinet you get very good speeds. Turn on vectoring too, and your entire base can use it.

G.Fast was designed to avoid normal VDSL frequencies, so that it could be used as a last hundred metres delivery mechanism (e.g. in the basement of a block of flats, or on a DP outside a group of houses), without interfering with ADSL/VDSL.

Except: then they abandoned that method of installation, and instead decided to bolt it onto the PCP instead.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

A number of countries use VDSL profile 35b with speeds up to 250/25, which makes more sense as an "upgrade" to VDSL. You don't get speeds any worse than VDSL, and if you're close to the cabinet you get very good speeds. Turn on vectoring too, and your entire base can use it.

^^^ This - Openreach should have gone for this one instead of G.fast roll out. Big mistake from Openreach