Is that not the precise point of those stats to show how many are picking the slower product tier when faster is available. Or am I missing something.

The stats don't of course tell you why the people chose the product they do, it might be price, it might be the slower product is fast enough, it might be they don't realise faster is available or they may not understand the products.

As things stand today the take-up of FTTP in Openreach Fibre First areas does seem to be similar to the take-up of Fast

The stats aren't particularly reliable though.

G.Fast did (and still does) show as available for my house. I ordered, had the engineer visit, and the best he could manage (in 3 hours of trying) was a downstream sync < 80 Mb/s. We agreed it wasn't possible. Line length was 303m to the DP, probably 320m to the NTE.

So essentially G.Fast is not available at my house. Yet the dslchecker website still shows:
G.fast Range A (Clean) 217.8 162.9 33.4 14.5
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 184.2 127.6 22.5 11.1

My whole street shows G.Fast as available. Only 4 houses are closer to the cabinet than me. Maybe a couple of those would sync at the new 120 Mb/s threshold. So in the small sample size of my street there are 30+ premises showing G.Fast available, of which maybe 2 could even get minimum speed. I doubt I live in some unicorn street, so over the country the availability of 'ultrafast' is clearly going to be overstated, possibly by a significant percentage.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Looking at Fibre First areas which are nearest to the G.fast footprint it is not much of a different take-up story for now.

If you are looking at "ultrafast" FTTP takeup, then part of the issue is that FTTP works so well. When you buy 80/20 on FTTP, you get a full, rock-solid 80/20. That's an excellent home service, and many people today won't feel the need for anything faster.

Since G.fast only works for people so close to the PCP that they already get 80/20 on FTTC, then you can expect takeup will be similarly low.

If DP distance is 303m then looks like the estimates are wrong and once job was closed the feedback loops should have got records updated and then the checker itself.

Be interested in seeing how my stats actually hold up on this one though. Likely to be just inside the 120 Mbps range

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Is that not the precise point of those stats to show how many are picking the slower product tier when faster is available. Or am I missing something.

I'm not disputing the stats. I'm just disputing the interpretation that some people put forward that people choose the slower product purely based on the lack of need for speed.

Though FTTC overall is a good product, the speed difference between the products is big so someone on tier 2 might get 80Mbps, while someone else might get 60Mbps. The person with the slowest connection might decide its not worth the money just for 8Mbps more. That decision is purely based on that they aren't getting their monies worth on tier 2. Not that they wouldn't like the speed. If they was getting 80Mbps then they would keep on tier 2.

The downside of FTTC is the more popular it becomes the less speed most people on the cabinet will get, with crosstalk interference.

In reply to a post by bowdon:

The downside of FTTC is the more popular it becomes the less speed most people on the cabinet will get, with crosstalk interference.

Maybe you should change the laws of physics .

I knew its much less of a percentage of premises can get it than actual getting it than BT's stats say... As I say it's a worthless tech..

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by bowdon:

The downside of FTTC is the more popular it becomes the less speed most people on the cabinet will get, with crosstalk interference.

Maybe you should change the laws of physics .

Insert obligatory Montgomery Scott joke

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Jul-19 10:47:10)

You get a rock solid connection speed which does not equal a rock solid throughput speed, since there is more than that bit of GPON involved and so many people use Wi-Fi don't forget.

Comparing new build where only FTTP is available with other types of areas where FTTP from Openreach is available is the key to understanding the differences and observing the buying habits, of course we cannot tell you precisely why people do or don't buy a product but we can see differences and is not enough to say that while a small number of champing at the bit for FTTP as an upgrade from superfast FTTC the great majority as yet are not.

Now in a few years that may all change, in the same way that in 2010 most were relatively content with ADSL2+

The point to get across is this - some are saying FTTP is the only way and everyone wants it, but being too evangelistic as some are carries the risk that in a year or two that investors will look at sign-up figures and panic and stop investing. Take-up of FTTP without bulk migrations is going to be a similar curve to the FTTC take-up, which is similar to the curve Virgin Media have shown for their Project Lightning roll-out too.

Mr S, from the TBB speedtest map, are you able to provide a % figure of households who take out the 80/20 or less tier in Openreach FTTP only areas such as new build sites? I'm pretty sure its > 50% but would be good to get an actual number.