General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Sat 27-Feb-21 22:03:07
Print Post

Re: DSLAM and FTTP


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jimbof:
.. , what's to stop that being ruined by a badly behaved device at one end flooding the fibre with light all the time?


In reply to a post by Pheasant:
I can imagine a couple of brute force scenarios, but the reality is the absolute risk is very low and could be quite easily traced. Even if a single PON was “attacked” - the total affected customers is still relatively low.


Examples of analysis tools to track and trace rogue ONT/U’s...

https://youtu.be/9zPcbumcKzA

https://vimeo.com/262706881

Edit: Huawei’s rogue ONT detection process explanation:
https://forum.huawei.com/enterprise/en/huawei/m/View...

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 27-Feb-21 22:10:19)

Standard User jimbof
(learned) Sun 28-Feb-21 18:16:47
Print Post

Re: DSLAM and FTTP


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DougM:
GPON has two key advantages versus DSL; physical access to the fibre is required to interfere with the signal, and all data is encrypted. It’s not perfect, but it’s a massive leap forwards for residential services.

All neighbours probably have access to the same fibre though. I guess it's a matter of weighing the simplicity of a system that has street-furniture mounted electronics vs electronics only at customer premises and head end exchange.
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Examples of analysis tools to track and trace rogue ONT/U’s...

https://youtu.be/9zPcbumcKzA

https://vimeo.com/262706881

Edit: Huawei’s rogue ONT detection process explanation:
https://forum.huawei.com/enterprise/en/huawei/m/View...


Thanks. These approaches all seem to rely on the devices being (reasonably) well behaved it seems.
One of the slides in the first presentation filled me with dread - that the challenge is understanding the issue is not with the equipment at the reporting customer's premises.
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Sun 28-Feb-21 19:56:52
Print Post

Re: DSLAM and FTTP


[re: jimbof] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jimbof:
In reply to a post by DougM:
GPON has two key advantages versus DSL; physical access to the fibre is required to interfere with the signal, and all data is encrypted. It’s not perfect, but it’s a massive leap forwards for residential services.

All neighbours probably have access to the same fibre though. I guess it's a matter of weighing the simplicity of a system that has street-furniture mounted electronics vs electronics only at customer premises and head end exchange.
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Examples of analysis tools to track and trace rogue ONT/U’s...

https://youtu.be/9zPcbumcKzA

https://vimeo.com/262706881

Edit: Huawei’s rogue ONT detection process explanation:
https://forum.huawei.com/enterprise/en/huawei/m/View...


Thanks. These approaches all seem to rely on the devices being (reasonably) well behaved it seems.
One of the slides in the first presentation filled me with dread - that the challenge is understanding the issue is not with the equipment at the reporting customer's premises.

Have you had issues with your FTTP or are you just 'theorising' these faults?

My Broadband Speed Test


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User jimbof
(learned) Sun 28-Feb-21 20:20:11
Print Post

Re: DSLAM and FTTP


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Have you had issues with your FTTP or are you just 'theorising' these faults?

It's not installed yet. I'm interested to see how it works - in general it is worth understanding the possible points of failure.

No need to be so incredulous - that gear exists for detecting some of these fault conditions seems to me to indicate they're not as rare as you might think...
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Sun 28-Feb-21 20:49:13
Print Post

Re: DSLAM and FTTP


[re: jimbof] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jimbof:
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Have you had issues with your FTTP or are you just 'theorising' these faults?

It's not installed yet. I'm interested to see how it works - in general it is worth understanding the possible points of failure.

No need to be so incredulous - that gear exists for detecting some of these fault conditions seems to me to indicate they're not as rare as you might think...
Politely you’re overthinking it. FTTP is way more reliable than FTTC. Take it from me, I’ve had lightning strike that fried practically everything. ONT was a bit [censored] on the Ethernet port (refused to connect at 1000baseT only at 100BaseT but it was otherwise working.

I’ve honestly never heard of anyone having an ONT fault that effectively nuked the PON. Of course nothing is bulletproof (or impossible) but the probability is that the issues will be far more mundane...like the dude last week with insects in his CSP. Or a branch through the overhead fibre....

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 28-Feb-21 20:50:19)

Standard User jimbof
(learned) Sun 28-Feb-21 23:16:36
Print Post

Re: DSLAM and FTTP


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
With respect, I'm not overthinking anything, I don't think these things are even particularly likely, I'm just interested to know how things work and how they may fail.

Luckily for me all my fibre runs will be underground except it looks like the last foot or so. Our FTTC cabinet is on a relatively busy city centre street so that has far more chance of being driven into, pee'd in, etc etc.
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Mon 01-Mar-21 07:44:58
Print Post

Re: DSLAM and FTTP


[re: jimbof] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jimbof:
With respect, I'm not overthinking anything, I don't think these things are even particularly likely, I'm just interested to know how things work and how they may fail.

Luckily for me all my fibre runs will be underground except it looks like the last foot or so. Our FTTC cabinet is on a relatively busy city centre street so that has far more chance of being driven into, pee'd in, etc etc.

In terms of deliberate or malicious intent. A bit of digging reveals some white hat security vulnerabilities on particular French GPON implementations a few years ago. Note that there has no immediate correlation to any present day GPON here in the UK, but nonetheless makes for interesting reading....

https://pierrekim.github.io/blog/2016-11-01-gpon-ftt...

My reading of the above is as a ‘theoretical’ discovery into the means to obtain ‘free’ gigabit capable service rather than service disruption itself. Although the author claims to have contacted Orange about the vulnerabilities....

Other brute force techniques (that could see you in front of a magistrate) could simply involve injecting 1310 nm light in the upstream. That would be akin to operating a radio frequency jammer on GPS, mobile or other terrestrial frequencies - so a a pretty quick way to land yourself in deep [censored]. Wouldn’t be that hard to work out who either...

In terms of equipment failure, there is little to suggest that the optics/lasers used inside ONT/ONUs could suddenly and unexpectedly fail ‘on’ / effectively get stuck transmitting ‘1’. Indeed proactive and reactive monitoring in the OLT should see any unexpected optical behaviour and send shutdown messages to the ONU before it becomes a potential nuisance. Otherwise I guess it’s an engineer visit to replace it.

As said all rather esoteric and rather theoretical, and rather more mundane failures in the outside plant would be waaaaay more likely.

Enjoy your connection when it arrives. 👍😀

My Broadband Speed Test
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to