Whey my service was installed on Wednesday - including digital voice, they still provided a copper pair from cabinet to premises. It will not be used, but is there.

Sure. If the OP had said what provider they are currently on, and what provider they intend to use for FTTP, it would have been a lot easier to answer!

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Sure. If the OP had said what provider they are currently on, and what provider they intend to use for FTTP, it would have been a lot easier to answer!

Yep, that it would

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Sure. If the OP had said what provider they are currently on, and what provider they intend to use for FTTP, it would have been a lot easier to answer!

Yep, that it would

My question could not included specifics because it was to provide early answers for 72 residencies of a community lead project which has gone into the planning stage with surveys scheduled to happen in around two months time and the service going live around this time next year. A mixed bag of service providers are used by those in this project scheme

Now when I raised the questions I was under the impression that the ONT would be where your phone service would come from through an internal ATA which seems a sensible arrangement as the "landline" would still work because of the installed battery pack in the ONT.

Certainly when my son moved into a new build house last year, that was where the phone service was available from although he doesn't use it as he has a VoIP service provided by his company and a different provider for all domestic phone calls. The downside being if there is a power cut, all communications are lost. I have suggested that he plugged a basic phone into the ONT emergency use and certainly with Voipfone, all calls can be diverted automatically to that number. Within a week that basic phone was disconnected from the ONT because of the high number of nuisance calls.

I am no longer sure if a phone service will be available at all from the ONT come a years time as much is said in this thread about a voice service being supplied from the router with the attendant issue of no service when a power cut occurs. It seems to me that if a phone service is always required to be available, then an UPS pack would be required.

Some WAGS might say what's wrong with using a mobile instead. Well the mobile signal in the locality is so week that most residents are either using Wifi Calling or a Sure Signal Device. No power, no phone service whichever way you turn.

Trying to nail down a VoIP provider who offers anywhere near a decent call package is difficult even for just 01/02/03/05 numbers and adding in true mobile numbers, really pushes up the monthly charge.

I would really welcome the discussion in this thread to continue to cover the points I have made above..

Remember to claim back the credit from your previous ISP!

This is relevant to all service provider changes, though this happened to me moving from BT copper service to Truespeed FTTH.

When my phone number ported from BT to Truespeed, BT disabled my online account. I had to ring their call centre to track down my account then claim the credit back. £28 back to me.

I'm not sure if it would be possible for you to consider using something like dialpad or skype VOIP

Dialpads pricing is quite competitive £12 a month for unlimited calling with lots of options is quite good.
Ultimately if you have anyone in your community who is vulnerable they need to tell openreach as in the latest UK Digital Event which they hosted recently they said that they want to know about it. They said that in those cases they would supply a UPS for the ONT however if you use a VOIP service they would still need to purchase UPS's which can cost anywhere from £50-£200 for a average user depending on what is connected and the load expected.

I use Skype VOIP as its free with my subscription to Office 365 as I get something like 80% off yearly however as you stated if they can use wifi calling this would be the best option but they would need a UPS for the router and ONT to ensure that they can call.
The other options are that residents take a look at OFCOM coverage checker which is impartial to all providers and gives accurate coverage, I can confirm this as I have sim cards from all providers and the data they give matches what i actually get where i am.

However when i did some reading it is possible to link skype to a VOIP phone however when considering the costs its not worth it and a provider like BT or even going for talktalk and using wifi calling would work out cheaper in the long run as you don't need to pay for two phone systems.


I am going to tell you that personally if i get a choice of cheaper VM with a phone line or Openreach FTTP I will go to FTTP and just use WiFi calling as I get bad coverage as concrete walls and 3/4G does not go well together.
I also thought about getting a phone sim for an old iphone or something like that to just leave permanently at the house something like lebara mobile (note I'm not aware if WiFi calling is available) as it costs something like £3 a month with current deals so seems more viable.

Its ultimately your decision what to tell them but I would invest in a UPS take a look at ofcom checker to see what's available considering USwitch sim prices and if those sims have WiFI calling then that would be what i would go for as it just seems like the best option but i'll let the others tell you what they think but those are my thoughts.

In reply to a post by RR_The_IT_Guy:

The other options are that residents take a look at OFCOM coverage checker which is impartial to all providers and gives accurate coverage, I can confirm this as I have sim cards from all providers and the data they give matches what i actually get where i am.

More inaccurate information from this poster.

As far as I am aware, the data for the OFCOM checker is supplied by the mobile phone providers. Correspondence with OFCOM has brought no rebuttal of that belief. There is obviously a vested interest in the network suppliers painting a rosier picture than the reality. At our home location O2 and Vodaphone show on the OFCOM checker as giving good coverage for voice outside while EE and Three are shown as potentially having problems on both 4G and No 4G tabs. On days when the atmospheric conditions favour mobile signals there is a chance that an O2 signal can be picked up outside. There is no record of any of the other signals (which come from a different mast) reaching any phone at our postcode. The checker also shows all networks as giving a good signal for data and enhanced data. Again that vastly overstates the coverage. In fairness all providers indicate that reception of voice or data indoors is unlikely.

This point has been raised with our MP and with Dame Sharon White when she was Head of OFCOM without any meaningful response and the OFCOM site retains information of dubious validity.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Now when I raised the questions I was under the impression that the ONT would be where your phone service would come from through an internal ATA which seems a sensible arrangement as the "landline" would still work because of the installed battery pack in the ONT.

Certainly when my son moved into a new build house last year, that was where the phone service was available from although he doesn't use it as he has a VoIP service provided by his company and a different provider for all domestic phone calls. The downside being if there is a power cut, all communications are lost. I have suggested that he plugged a basic phone into the ONT emergency use and certainly with Voipfone, all calls can be diverted automatically to that number. Within a week that basic phone was disconnected from the ONT because of the high number of nuisance calls.

I am no longer sure if a phone service will be available at all from the ONT come a years time as much is said in this thread about a voice service being supplied from the router with the attendant issue of no service when a power cut occurs. It seems to me that if a phone service is always required to be available, then an UPS pack would be required.

The first couple of generations of ONT did have an inbuilt ATA and were fitted with a BBU but this is no longer the case. The Fibre Voice Access (FVA) service was only ever used by BT, no other ISPs decided to use it, and it is no longer available for new supply so even if you have an ONT which supports it you cannot order a service to make use of it. BBUs have not been fitted for a year or so now, and the latest ONTs have done away with the connector for BBU monitoring.

To maintain phone service during a mains outage will require a UPS to power the ONT, router, ATA (if not incorporated into the router) and phone (if cordless rather than hard wired).

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

As far as I am aware, the data for the OFCOM checker is supplied by the mobile phone providers.

The Ofcom "about this checker" states:

This map uses signal level predictions provided by the four UK mobile network operators. Ofcom has tested actual coverage in various locations around the UK, and used the results to set the thresholds for voice calls used on the map. We will continue to conduct testing, work with the mobile operators and analyse consumer feedback with a view to improving the accuracy of the map. The map may differ from those provided by the network operators; see the FAQ below for reasons why.

So they can be different, and in the case of a "not spot" then all 4 networks have agreed with Ofcom in late 2020 to work together to solve. Unfortunately due to various building materials, you have to check for "not spot" outdoors, rather than indoors.

Do you have a rough region of this not spot? Postcode would be great, but for many people its too detailed. Thanks.

Edited by jchamier (Wed 31-Mar-21 16:14:40)

I might have confused the ofcom checker with the nperf data or potentially rootmetrics.
The reason i thought it wasn't data supplied is because i have checked the 4 Mobile providers maps against the ofcom map and ofcom's data is more realistic to what the providers state. I have checked this at a few locations with sims from each and the ofcom checker is always correct in the village and town areas i checked. While the areas stated to have signal by say vodafone did not so there must be some independence or data analytics from other sources as otherwise it would not be possible for ofcom to know there is no signal while vodafone state there is, the same applies to 3 Mobile, who over promise and say 4G available while when i check on ofcom there is barely 3G let alone 4G.
I can't believe that the data is exactly from operators there is definitely some tweaking based on my experiments.

To add to that

Government to give Ofcom the powers to independently verify coverage, with local areas given “annual speed and reliability health checks” using on-the-ground testing.

So there is independent checks

My area have also released the following statement

In Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Combined Authority, the Connecting Cambridgeshire programme has drawn up a ‘Top 20’ list of priority areas identified by comparing detailed local mobile connectivity surveys commissioned by Cambridgeshire County Council with the latest Ofcom mobile coverage data. The list of partial not-spots has been shared with mobile network operators for collaborative action, following a summit convened by Mayor James Palmer.

Edited by RR_The_IT_Guy (Wed 31-Mar-21 17:00:35)