Having had the issue on several occasions trying to get OR interested in fixing a copper line plagued with faults from wet weather but the engineers turning up in dry weather, I cannot wait for FTTP.

I keep an 80/20 FTTC circuit as a backup - it achieves 72/16. We always hear about the dodgy lines here, but the vast majority of FTTC works just fine.

My area is on the list for copper stop sell next year, so when changing supplier I'll likely end up with Openreach FTTP.

However, I don't think I'd pay extra for it if I had to renew now. Latency (Plusnet) is typically only about 3ms above my primary Community Fibre (XGS-PON), and the 16Mbit upload is *just* tolerable for a short period of time. Reliability is good for copper - I'd say fewer than 3 resyncs a year due to factors outside my control, and I run it on a 1.5dB margin.

Examples: FTTC/FTTP
1.1.1.1 5.6/2.7
8.8.8.8 5.0/2.4
bbc.co.uk 5.2/1.7
9.9.9.9 5.4/1.8

Remember that the first year or two of "stop sell" on copper is only to stop provisioning of new services - it doesn't prevent you from renewing existing copper services. So you won't be forced into changing immediately if you don't want to.

It's only PSTN phone services that are going to disappear soon though. Migrating FTTC to existing copper will still be around.

Nope - if you are in one of the growing list of locations Openreach have announced copper stop sell for then FTTC to FTTC migrations will be blocked unless on 40/10 product next year.

From May next year where I am you will be pushed to FTTP for most orders due to the stop sell. That includes changing ISPs and house moves. Not related to the PSTN switch off.

Edited by Ad_G (Sun 15-Aug-21 20:52:16)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Presumably you mean 900Mb/s, not 90Mb/s.

Most providers label their gigabit packages as 900Mb/s. This is because when presenting a gigabit ethernet (which delivers exactly 1,000,000,000 bits per second), the achievable TCP payload throughput is about 942Mbps on IPv4, or 928Mbps on IPv6, once you've taken into account the overhead of TCP and IP and ethernet headers.

It's clearer to label it as a "900M" service than have customers complain that they paid for 1000Mbps and are only getting 940M according to a speedtest - even though the speedtest only measures the payload data and not the headers.

Yes, sorry, 900Mb/s I thought that may have been the reason to be honest, not sure how many people would even be ale to even use that amount anyway unless they have a load of high bandwidth devices, like a load of smart TV sets being used for 4K streaming at the same times.
business I can understand and to be honest, I think most people would be fine with !00Mb/s,

It varies by provider. How is your BT copper delivered? Many providers will follow the same route (i.e. re-use the BT duct using PIA if you have a duct, use overhead from a pole if the pole exists). If neither option is possible they might lay the cable over the surface, or they might dig.

If you want the service, then talk to them about how they would deliver it. If you don't want the service, then it doesn't matter

My Bt copper is over head, but Zzoomm uses their own network and while they may use some BT ducting,, they still dig a trench in people's property. On the cycle path I ride to work down they dug their own trench, for when I presume is the equivalent of a trunk cable. They put a cabinet there as well, and boy is it noisy, when we had those few hot days it was really going something, even now when it is cooler it is pretty loud when I pass on my bike. Just a good job the closest neighbours is Aldis and part of Bulmers, well Heineken as it is called now,

I hope they are not going to put them things in estates, I think they have a manhole type thing ion the roads, i have not been down any street that have them, the flats at the back of the service yard where i work I think can now get Zzoomm, but I have not really looked, the furthest I go out there is just to the lorry to chat to drivers asking what they have on board

I am just curious, even if I don't bother with it. Not only that, but I am interested in the technology, I am interested in all technology, even if I don't always agree with it or the way it is used.

In reply to a post by Ad_G:

Nope - if you are in one of the growing list of locations Openreach have announced copper stop sell for then FTTC to FTTC migrations will be blocked unless on 40/10 product next year.

From May next year where I am you will be pushed to FTTP for most orders due to the stop sell. That includes changing ISPs and house moves. Not related to the PSTN switch off.

That is a bit naff, certainly if the price is higher, I presume that is only with BT ISP and not other providers that use the BT openreach network.

I know of someone who still use ADSL, and he has been told that they will have to move to FTTC as their provider are stopping ADSL, I have no idea what provider they use. They are going to move to another provider, so I presume it is not an open reach thing.
I am not sure why they don't want to move to FTTC, something about it being worse than ADSL, I have no idea how, maybe the cabinet is further away from them than they are from the exchange. Pass.
But at the end of the day, it is still naff that they are being pushed onto something that they feel they don't need, and they would have to pay more for.

In reply to a post by Ad_G:

Nope - if you are in one of the growing list of locations Openreach have announced copper stop sell for then FTTC to FTTC migrations will be blocked unless on 40/10 product next year.

From May next year where I am you will be pushed to FTTP for most orders due to the stop sell. That includes changing ISPs and house moves. Not related to the PSTN switch off.

Just to clarify in case folks are confused, there are currently 2 Stop Sell programmes under way:

1. FTTP Priority Exchange Stop Sell
2. WLR Withdrawal Stop Sell

Your exchange area will no doubt be in the former category - unless you are in Mildenhall in Suffolk, in which case it’s already happening!

More here:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/produc...

The All IP faq:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/content/dam/cpp...

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I am not sure why they don't want to move to FTTC, something about it being worse than ADSL, I have no idea how, maybe the cabinet is further away from them than they are from the exchange. Pass.

FTTC signals operate at higher frequencies, which are more affected by attenuation over distance. So there comes a cross-over point, when you are a mile or two from the cabinet, where FTTC becomes worse than ASDL. Although both are pretty slow by that point

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

But at the end of the day, it is still naff that they are being pushed onto something that they feel they don't need, and they would have to pay more for.

This is true: although for most providers FTTC and ASDL are priced identically, having a worse service sucks.

I suspect the original provider is getting rid of their ADSL equipment from exchanges, due to so few people still using it.

In reply to a post by ft247:

I keep an 80/20 FTTC circuit as a backup - it achieves 72/16. We always hear about the dodgy lines here, but the vast majority of FTTC works just fine.

FTTC is still “working just fine” providing 18 Mbps, and not many get 70 or higher sadly. A lot of my colleagues during the pandemic upgraded to as fast as they could get (to try and improve video calls) and ended up with faster download typically around 55 Mbps, but upload speeds almost never broke 10 Mbps. Lots of people would like to buy a reliable 80/20 without any distance issues.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 15-Aug-21 22:22:05)