In reply to a post by candlerb:

Note that with FTTP there are no powered street cabinets (unlike Virgin)

AltNets often use powered cabinets for their FTTP nodes.

Edit: I see sheephouse was thinking the same thing.

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 17-Aug-21 20:57:10)

In reply to a post by dave2150:

Of course FTTP is better than FTTC. It's faster, has lower latency and far more reliable.

There'll always be a group of people, usually much older people, that'll not be able to tell the difference. Think back to elderly people prefering black and white TV's over colour, for years after they released etc.

Eventually FTTC will be turned off, so even those prefering inferior technology will be forced to move on.

Faster don't make things better, more reliability yes as have already been said above, while latency does make a difference, 3 milliseconds or so is not going to make a scrap of difference to anything
Not everyone requires faster speed and not everyone will want to pay the extra price to get it, sure if providers offered a slower speed on FTTH for a lower price than that is ok.
I am fine with 35Mb/s, I can do everything I need to do with it as long as it doesn't get congested, and we had the same problem with ADSL, the U.S.A would wake up and everything would slow down to a crawl, and it can still happen now. Maybe happened with dial up, but that was so slow anyway I doubt we would have noticed, and there was not so many people using the internet then.
As I was saying, I am fine with the speed I get, which is why I said in my first post, apart from speed what is the advantage of FTTH and I got the answer I thought I would get, just maybe reliability. but again some people have been using FTTc for years without any problems, i have had none since the little problem with the network only wanting to connect to one certain modem for some reason, but that is now sorted.

Money is the thing, if plusnet comes back at the end of my contract and say, yes we will do you a deal for the same price I am paying now, which is £23 a month for my 35Mb/s, I would have to think about why I would need to spend another £6 or more per month to get 100Mb/s which is not going to make a scrap of difference to me. If I really get started with this video stuff, a higher upload would be ok, but if I went for zzoomm, that would cost me another tenner a month to get a higher upload speed that I get now. So £16 a month more than I am paying, plus I get free calls, not that I use them, but that is not the point.

Don't do the ageist thing, I know people who are a fair bit bit older than me and maybe you that would notice the difference, but only if they have a use for it. Do you really think a person who access say Facebook is going to notice his Facebook pages downloading a fraction of a second faster?
My brother lives more or less were ZZoomm is starting to build the network, him and his wife lives there and she does some business stuff on her computers, he does music and other things, so I expect they will go for Zzoomm and they are both older than me.

As for black and white TV, older people stayed with them because the licence was cheaper., I know my Nan did, and also it was rented and because she had it for so long she had a good deal on it. Those days, TV sets was still expensive to buy. so what about people who don't go for a 4K T.V?

I am sure one day FTTC will be turned off, but I don't think it will be for many years, after all i can still get ADSL if I want to.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Not everyone requires faster speed and not everyone will want to pay the extra price to get it, sure if providers offered a slower speed on FTTH for a lower price than that is ok.

I read this about 4G and everyone said "I'm happy with 3G" and in a couple of years 3G will be turned off. So anyone without a 4G capable handset/modem/dongle will be stuck with very limited 2G.

Progress is progress, even if you choose to buy the entry level product over FTTP that gives the speeds you have now, the infrastructure needs updating.

Openreach will want to turn off the FTTC/VDSL cabinets once they have deployed FTTP to save the electricity bill for one.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by smouty:

You couldn’t be more wrong and this is a common misconception.
You do not need to subscribe at all to play the games you own or are free to play such as Destiny 2.
Even games you buy when subscribed at a massive discount you keep without any restrictions if you cancel.

You do not even require any hardware.

So what is the subscription for? The way it is on their website makes it look like you have to subscribe.

As for no hardware, I am pretty sure you would need some hardware, unless you are going to play the games with your mind.


It is still not something I would use, this sort of thing was tried once before and failed, Amazon has a lot of money to put behind this, but even Amazon will only chuck so much at it if it doesn't start making a profit.
I am not saying it won't do well, just that it have been tried before, people seem to prefer the xboxes and PlayStations, oh yeah and switches.

Like xbox live and PSN you get access to a games library while subscribed.
You of course need some hardware but it is likely to be accessible on the same device you are posting on the internet with

It is Google btw. Amazon have their own service as do both Microsoft and Sony as I think it is the way forward especially for someone who doesn’t want to waste money on a new console or gaming pc. Even some Switch games are streamed e.g. those that the Switch is unable to run natively so Nintendo are also involved.

I also had an Xbox since 2005 but sold the OneX and haven’t missed the time it takes to install a game or an update. With Stadia it is instant.

Trouble with the backup power supplies is you need to maintain them otherwise you'll only find they failed when you need them - that and the risks associated with battery fires.

Where I live now is less likely to lose electricity to a storm so not so concerned personally - but we are yet to have a wide scale power outage with just digital phones, so wait and see.

if your defer upgrading to a 4g phone until you need to then you end up saving money and reducing waste. Similarly If you jump into FTTP now then likely you'll spend more because of limited competition

Battery fires are associated with Li-Ion packs (in certain usually quite extreme and atypical conditions / scenarios).

The UPS units and gen-packs that I’ve seen that don’t use the usual SLA batteries, are using Lithium-Iron-Phosphate LiFePO chemistry which is far more stable than Li-Ion. Not prone to fires.

There is no such thing as an intrinsically safe battery though. They can all be bombs if mismanaged badly enough. Even good old lead acid is lethal or life changing. Then again so is overinflating a tyre or filling up with petrol while smoking.

In reply to a post by Kenneth:

Similarly If you jump into FTTP now then likely you'll spend more because of limited competition

Not necessarily. Example in absolute terms; another thread from today; BT (Full) Fibre Essentials is the same cost whether it’s delivered over FTTC or FTTP. In fact over FTTP the bandwidth is the same for all subscribers whereas over FTTC there is a range depending on how far you are.

In bang for buck, relative terms; divide the cost by bandwidth. FTTP will be miles cheaper per available £/Mbps than any FTTC package. My business FTTP package works out at 5.6p / Mbps.

At that rate 80/20 FTTC should cost £4.51 per month.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I read this about 4G and everyone said "I'm happy with 3G" and in a couple of years 3G will be turned off. So anyone without a 4G capable handset/modem/dongle will be stuck with very limited 2G.

Progress is progress, even if you choose to buy the entry level product over FTTP that gives the speeds you have now, the infrastructure needs updating.

Openreach will want to turn off the FTTC/VDSL cabinets once they have deployed FTTP to save the electricity bill for one.

I went to 4G as i got a new phone that had 4G on it, I did not go out to buy a phone with 4G and i am pretty sure a lot of people did the same, if they drop 3G what are they going to do about smart meters? Some will work on 2g, but that is going as well. So smart meters will need a new modem, so more waste.
I got myself a new phone a few months ago, I went for 4G and not 5G, because one was the price of the phone, it was a good price for what it offers, two, we don't have 5G here, I know one network is going to install it, three, i don't see the point of 5G on a mobile and 4G is fast enough, after all most of the time 4G is faster than my home network.

But progress is not always progress, just because something is faster, don't mean it is better. Take 5g for a start, I know of someone who got a 5G phone, and live in a place where 5G is supposed to be great and yet their phone spends more time on 4G than 5G.
To be honest, i am getting fed up with being told to use an app for this and an app for that, suppose to be progress, now that we can order again at the bar, I have got rid of the apps I used for two pubs I go into, they only collect a load of data anyway.

I think FTTC will be with us for a few years yet, FTTP will either have to come down to the price of FTTC or providers will have to offer lower speeds at a lower price of FTTP. Also, openreach are still installing FTTC in some places, I can't see them doing that and then getting rid of them after a few years.

By all accounts the one I am connected to have been hit by a car again, but it can't be that bad,, my connection is still working. I was told there was a car on the grass front end up by the cabinet and the cabinet looked at a strange angle, again.

In reply to a post by smouty:

Like xbox live and PSN you get access to a games library while subscribed.
You of course need some hardware but it is likely to be accessible on the same device you are posting on the internet with

It is Google btw. Amazon have their own service as do both Microsoft and Sony as I think it is the way forward especially for someone who doesn’t want to waste money on a new console or gaming pc. Even some Switch games are streamed e.g. those that the Switch is unable to run natively so Nintendo are also involved.

I also had an Xbox since 2005 but sold the OneX and haven’t missed the time it takes to install a game or an update. With Stadia it is instant.

So you can only buy the games while subscribed? This device is a pretty powerful machine, may be a few years old, but still capable of playing games, so I don't really need to stream games on here, but I understand what you are getting at.
I don't know why I said amazon, I did mean Google.

The games I have seen on stadia don't look that great to be honest, and I am not even a gamer., they look to be past their sell by date, they have Doom, surly that is not the original Doom? I know it is a classic, but come on.

I don't think the sale of game consoles is going to fall because of Stadia to be honest, I work in a store that sells consoles and when we can get them, there are a fair few of them on the back of the lorry.

i will stick with steam, for the few games I buy and play.