In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Speedtest.net tests from your providers own server often don't leave their network.

What's the performance like to a speedtest.net server that isn't within Community Fibres own network?
What's the single thread performance like?

P.s I'm not jealous, honest.

The Community Fibre speedtest.net server often or not gets me the fastest round trip times, typically under 1ms and regularly reported as 0ms.

I’m testing from another provider network that I believe is peered at the same Docklands datacentres (Telehouse Docklands North / LONAP). Their speedtest servers to me at least are regularly 2-3ms faster than other public servers in Equinix or Telehouse.

I have a hosted server based in the Netherlands and I'm able to upload/download at full line rate.

Speed tests to other networks are pretty similar. Here are a few other examples:

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/e4ded2df-e08a-...

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/40fea51f-3ed1-...

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/bac23e94-8f04-...

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

The vast majority of home users don't need 115Mb/s upload, nevermind a gigabit.
The vast majority of the country only has access to Virgin or OpenReach. Virgins highest upload is 50Mb/s.
Both those companies appear to me to be healthy, successful businesses.

A small number of technically minded users or users who currently WFH will opt for an Alt-Net for the higher upload.
That doesn't mean it's a bag marketing decision by OpenReach to not offer higher upload speeds.

Yes, you are right that currently vast majority of us home users do not need higher than 115Mb/s upload speeds.

The problem is not whether we need higher or symmetrical upload speeds, but we deserve to get what we pay for. If I pay for a Big Mac, I expect to get a bigger burger and not a smaller 99p cheese burger even if it was more than enough to keep me satiated with my caloric needs.

Yes, Virgin Media and Openreach are naturally successful businesses, but that is because up until now there has been no consumer choice, they have been the monopoly in providing fixed line broadband for the last 15-30 years!

If I am stuck with only providers like VM and OR then in this case I will indeed have no choice but to select an asymmetric provider that costs double that of the Altnets. But this isn't exactly what most people wanted or wished for, they are simply stuck with the packages that are currently offered.

Just like how I have been previously stuck only with ADSL EO Line with a connection that kept dropping out! I was waiting for years to get FTTC and finally got upgraded 2 years ago, but that doesn't mean I was happy with Openreach. I was simply stuck as I had no other choice.

Wayleave agreement for FTTP was a barrier for the last 6 years as management team kept rejecting both Hyperoptic and Openreach FTTP at that time. Finally 6 months ago wayleave was granted for Community Fibre and the service is now live in my building.

Now that FTTP has come Openreach will naturally lose most, if not all of of their customers for FTTC. I only now need to wait to see out my contract with TalkTalk FTTC in February before I migrate to Community Fibre.

You as a customer are entitled to order whatever you want for whatever reason you want.

Of-course, I'm entitled to order what I want. But my point was how will Openreach convince to gain back their former customers like myself?

When there is an injection in competition like in the case of London, where most of the Altnets have scooped up most of the MDUs. From a business point of view (in the interest of Openreach) they will have to figure out how to gain back customers either by lowering their asymmetrical packages by quite a bit or sooner consider making them symmetrical.

That is the only way they can win back customers.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

When there is an injection in competition like in the case of London, where most of the Altnets have scooped up most of the MDUs. From a business point of view (in the interest of Openreach) they will have to figure out how to gain back customers either by lowering their asymmetrical packages by quite a bit or sooner consider making them symmetrical.

That is the only way they can win back customers.

That logic is incorrect. Firstly, because Openreach's pricing is regulated (so they can't drop it without Ofcom's permission); and secondly because the *vast majority* of people don't care about upload speed. If Openreach does drop prices, it won't be to chase the tiny proportion of people who do care.

The majority of customers want cheap, cheap and cheap. The majority are happy with 40/10 - it's all they need to stream Netflix and browse the web.

Case in point: Aquiss used to sell the slowest FTTP package in the UK, at 40/2. When this was pointed out, they responded saying that 35% of their customers picked this package - even though it was only £1-£2 per month cheaper than 40/10 (£1 for an initial period, £2 thereafter), and £2-£4 per month cheaper than 80/20!

(Aquiss have only stopped selling 40/2 FTTP now because BT Wholesale have withdrawn it from sale. They do still sell 40/2 FTTC.)

That's all the Altnets need to succeed: to be able to retail any service at £1 per month less than the cheapest OR-based service (regardless of speed). And that's why they got upset about Openreach being allowed to lower their FTTP prices recently in their 'Equinox' offer.

Edited by candlerb (Thu 28-Oct-21 20:28:07)

I'm aware that Openreach have to apply for permission from Ofcom to lower their prices as noted in a previous post by John. Indeed, vast majority do not care about upload speeds as much as download.

Majority of the customers want a cheap package. The case about Aquiss is quite understandable. The difference between 40/2 vs 40/10 in upload is small, so a saving of £1-£2 per month may be totally worth it!

But then again, you are looking at these price comparisons from an Openreach FTTP perspective. Do these 35% of customers have an alternative FTTP choice? Probably not!

Now let's look at TalkTalk Future Fibre that's on the Openreach network. 150/25 for £29.95 and 500/75 for £40. These are the cheapest deals, but they are still quite expensive when you compare to what the Altnets have to offer.

Community Fibre 200/200 ~ £25 500/500 ~ £35 or Hyperoptic 150/150 ~ £20 500/500 ~ £30 a month.

From a customer's perspective it is difficult for me to see how someone would pay £40 for 500/75 unless they had Openreach FTTP as their only choice. Let's just say I don't care about the upload speed, but this is still a more expensive deal. It's not £1 less, it is £5-£10 less than the cheapest Openreach TalkTalk FTTP packages.

Now for me to agree on this deal that package has to be under or around £35 a month. Then Openreach will more likely win back customers. That was what my point was.

I read the 'Equinox' offer and I can see why Altnets are not happy with this, but it all depends what the newer prices will be. So far most of the ISPs that sell FTTP on the Openreach network tend to be much more expensive even if upload speed wasn't that important.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Case in point: Aquiss used to sell the slowest FTTP package in the UK, at 40/2. When this was pointed out, they responded saying that 35% of their customers picked this package.

I can update this further, so we withdrew the 40/2 roughly inline when we introduced 330, 550 and 1000 packages, so it's taken a couple of months for percentages to settle themselves out.

During September we saw 27% of customers take 40/10 on FTTP and in October it's currently just shy of 28%. 80/20 in both September and October is the same, on 55%. The remaining 17% / 18 % is roughly the same for the range equally (160/330/550 and 1000).

So basically just over 80% still opt (even on FTTP) for speeds less than 100Mbps. Regrades (ie: those upgrading up beyond 100Mbps currently accounts for circa 0.7% of the customer base and remains steady). We actually bring in more new customers per month, than those regrading.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Community Fibre 200/200 ~ £25 500/500 ~ £35 or Hyperoptic 150/150 ~ £20 500/500 ~ £30 a month.

Community Fibre and Hyperoptic are generous with their speeds, but that's not the point here. Certainly if you're a technical user and happen to be in the footprint of one of these altnets, these are attractive.

For the majority, the only price point which matters is the bottom one. Since Cityfibre has a more national footprint, I'll include them too: Vodafone on Cityfibre is £24 for 100/100.

What the altnets are primarily competing with is the lowest price offered by FTTC *or* FTTP on Openreach. You can still hit £22 for 40/10 on Plusnet FTTC. Plusnet haven't launched FTTP, but until then BT will do you Fibre Essential for £25. It's this sub-£30 price point where the majority of consumers buy, and that's what they're competing for.

The higher-bandwidth products are just icing on the cake for the ISPs, like business class seats for airlines. Very few airlines have made a "business class only" model work.

Edited by candlerb (Fri 29-Oct-21 12:35:54)

In reply to a post by aquiss:

During September we saw 27% of customers take 40/10 on FTTP and in October it's currently just shy of 28%. 80/20 in both September and October is the same, on 55%. The remaining 17% / 18 % is roughly the same for the range equally (160/330/550 and 1000).

Interesting stats. Thanks for sharing

Very impressive.

No, totally pointless and a complete waste of money.

Admittedly, I'd subscribe immediately if I could get it here.