In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by umbramalison:

I didn't know an internal one was really a thing till the responses here.

They are the original CSP's used for both external and internal use manufactured by a company called OFS, they come in grey, brown and white although most people have the white version internally, I'm sure you would accept the current larger external one installed inside your loft if it meant thing would proceed via your chosen route.

Spot on, nothing looks pretty in the loft. And can be concealed (cupboard) if that was a concern.
Thanks for the list of options to look out for.

In reply to a post by umbramalison:

What I'm asking for is even simpler.

The loft is boarded, lit and with stairs. The room is accessed directly from the soffit. The mounting location for the ONT is 2M from the eyelet where the copper cable ties to the house, which is less than a foot from the soffit. I just fitted the bell box in the same site so I have first hand experience.on how easy it is to run cable from there into loft. If you can combe your hair, it's almost the same motion.

I don't even need ducting or pull through.

I know I won't win this last bit, but they don't even need a ladder. The job could not have been easier.
The scaffolding is like an extension on the house, should have told them it was a veranda, I'd sleep out there tonight if there was a point worth proving.

Forget your idea of using the scaffolding. No engineer should go up it regardless of what you say or who installed it, trying to make them go up there could get them the sack, it is a simple health & safety thing, so do not try and insist they use it. It matters not who might have used it before, the rules are the rules and when it comes to safety, you breach them you get sacked!!! If you do not have a scaf tag on it, no one should be going up it. Even if you did then that engineer would need to be trained to climb it etc, so realistically, its not going to happen.

Someone mentioned about the customer helping to feed the drop wire across from the pole????? Really? Absolutely NOT. Again a massive safety issue right there. Does the existing drop wire go across a road? If so a cut and draw is required regardless of how busy the road might be and the customer should never be involved in anything like that as they are not trained. What if the customer was up the scaffolding and then dropped the cable and it fell into the road? Anything went wrong with this then that engineer would face immediate dismissal. Is one broadband installation worth their job? No.

One other point is every property and installation is different, there is no one rule fits all. Just because one person had their installation done in a certain way doesn't mean the next one can. Although the customer in this case might want their installation done in a certain way, there is no guarantee that will be possible or it might just take longer to find a safe solution.

Those original CSP’s are for an older style installation. Not suited to the newer connectorised stuff.

I think you said it very well. It is a h&s thing I wouldn't want to put anyones life or career in any risk.

That's how it is and I respect that. Taking a few steps back however, it's still a bit silly.

The loft, boarded by myself... Any safer? Irrelevant until insurance decide to not cover it.

It is only a h&s issue because they don't provide more training and don't pay for insurance. It would be great if people could be trained and insured to make their own assessments.

The ladder system is a great solution to minimise cost and minimise complexity. Training and insurance can be explicit, tick box and done.

I know that the secure bolt system would not be as secure as the scaffolding in this instance. Because I know the state and construction of my house and the front wall is really a fasade.

I've asked for a cherry picker as this is safest and doesn't leave me with a repair bill either.

In reply to a post by umbramalison:

I'm only talking about the physical boundary, aka my land!
There's lots of scenarios why you can't assume access

Ah, get orf my land!

Even if this is old and doesn't apply, I bet somewhere in the contract for phone or interwebs there's a clause about letting Openreach have access.

In reply to a post by umbramalison:

I think you said it very well. It is a h&s thing I wouldn't want to put anyones life or career in any risk.

That's how it is and I respect that. Taking a few steps back however, it's still a bit silly.

The loft, boarded by myself... Any safer? Irrelevant until insurance decide to not cover it.

It is only a h&s issue because they don't provide more training and don't pay for insurance. It would be great if people could be trained and insured to make their own assessments.

The ladder system is a great solution to minimise cost and minimise complexity. Training and insurance can be explicit, tick box and done.

I know that the secure bolt system would not be as secure as the scaffolding in this instance. Because I know the state and construction of my house and the front wall is really a fasade.

I've asked for a cherry picker as this is safest and doesn't leave me with a repair bill either.

If a hoist is able to access the location where your current drop wire fixes to the building etc, then this will be your solution. The hoist will need a good drive which has stable ground to be able to work from and hopefully your current scaffolding won't be in the way for the bucket on the hoist. Note, the hoist can't work from any soft ground as it will potentially be unstable and that's never good!

As i say each install is different, it's not that it can't be done, but sometimes takes a little longer to be completed safely. I'm sure there will be a solution that works for you.

Yes H&S can be a pain in the back side and get in the way of what might seem like a simple solution, but when things go wrong then everything hits the pan if rules have not been followed correctly.

As regards the loft space, this needs to be boarded and fully lit and accessed by a fixed loft ladder that is fully secured at the top, as long as this has been done, then that is one thing that hopefully won't get in your way. Be prepared though to offer to crawl into the corner of the loft and grab the cable yourself for the engineers when the poke it in from the outside if they aren't keen to do this. This is where a simple draw string might save a lot of time. If you are willing to pop one through from the outside where the existing copper cable enters the loft to where your kit is located, then the hoist driver will just have to tape the new fibre cable on to the end of it and you pull from inside. If you do this it will just make it easier on the day and one potential obstacle removed.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

I bet somewhere in the contract for phone or interwebs there's a clause about letting Openreach have access.

There is a difference between giving Openreach access and giving them unfettered access, it may be convenient for Openreach but not necessary for their customers.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Like you, when I had scaffolding up it was used by brickies, roofers, glaziers, chippies, me, squirrels and more ...

We were told "do not allow anyone to adjust it - we (scaffolders) will come back when needed. Buildners knew full well not to make changes to it. No reputable scaffolding company is going to do an unsafe installation, knowingly, and if they did, word would spread quickly.


Why theey refused? Lack of management foresight!

I had scaffolding up when we did a major house refurbishment. Took the roof completely off and replaced it. As part of that work I had the power cable removed, and replaced with an underground feed. The DNO pole is on the boundary of our property. Ironically the DNO chaps refused to dig the trench, because of the scaffolding, but they were more than happy to use the scaffolding to disconnect the overhead feed!
My builder dug the trench for them. Under a Grand for the whole job.

By the way, I also approached Openreach to do the same (they feed the house from the same pole) They wanted 360 quid just to come a take a look, and that fee would have been added (and not absorbed) into the cost of the work. If I decided not to proceed the 360 quid was non returnable. I rejected their proposal, and took down and reattached the line myself. I do wish now that I'd put a BT approved duct in from the pole to the house to future proof for FTTP.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure why they decided to put the copper feed for our house DIG and not in a duct, though I never thought that it would cause issues down the line for fibre. It had to go overhead, which looks a bit weird, but the other option would've been very costly and messy!